[HN Gopher] An anonymous hacker reverse engineered my E2EE
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       An anonymous hacker reverse engineered my E2EE
        
       Author : collaborative
       Score  : 13 points
       Date   : 2021-08-15 20:27 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.groupsapp.online)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.groupsapp.online)
        
       | saurik wrote:
       | FWIW, I was expecting something like "the mechanism is
       | fundamentally flawed because the e2e encryption actually is
       | designed in a way where the server can derive or find the key";
       | but, thankfully, this is "merely" the "obvious" vulnerability in
       | key exchange: "how do I know I wasn't given a forged key by the
       | server?", to which the protocol generally won't have any solution
       | (barring some kind of pgp-style web of trust, which protocols
       | should probably adopt) and the only reasonable thing to do is to
       | add a UI that shows the user the key and helps them verify it
       | (preferably with a mechanism to make chats _look_ insecure
       | _until_ they are verified, like Threema also gets right)... which
       | thankfully this developer did--though I have no clue how well the
       | UI works in context as I haven 't used it and am only glancing at
       | the screenshots... probably nowhere near as good as Threema--
       | instead of trying to paper over the problem and pretending it
       | doesn't really exist by simply throwing certificate pinning at
       | the proximal MITM problem because their server can (of course) be
       | trusted like Apple does with iMessage without addressing the
       | ultimate flaw [<- all of which I describe in a single run-on
       | sentence, as it is _maximally fun_ :D, before y 'all get upset at
       | me and leave pointless replies].
        
         | collaborative wrote:
         | Screenshots of the UI in action (light mode):
         | 
         | https://ibb.co/T2jmBYr https://ibb.co/1dRfpxQ
         | https://ibb.co/vhdsKp7 https://ibb.co/g7VBX3R
         | https://ibb.co/281zqqj https://ibb.co/SNbYc7k
        
         | SP2njsPl2WmlAwM wrote:
         | > FWIW, I was expecting something like "the mechanism is
         | fundamentally flawed because the e2e encryption actually is
         | designed in a way where the server can derive or find the key"
         | 
         | The mechanism wasn't intentionally designed that way. But the
         | symmetric ChatKeys were created with Random(), seeded (at least
         | partially) with time().
        
         | lucgommans wrote:
         | > add a UI that shows the user the key and helps them verify it
         | [...] probably nowhere near as good as Threema
         | 
         | Indeed, Threema really has to get more credit for this one.
         | 
         | How many people verify their contacts in Signal when they
         | opportunistically get the chance? Wire? WhatsApp? Matrix?
         | 
         | My mother in law wanted to verify keys with me in Threema of
         | her own volition. In Signal, which she tried for the same
         | reason (securely communicating medical data between
         | colleagues), she didn't even know it was possible, let alone
         | that she should be doing that.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-15 23:02 UTC)