[HN Gopher] LinuxPhoneApps
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       LinuxPhoneApps
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2021-08-15 18:38 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (alpha.linuxphoneapps.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (alpha.linuxphoneapps.org)
        
       | nynx wrote:
       | Frankly, open-source phones need more powerful processors. The
       | current ones can barely handle modern websites (and before people
       | get in a tizzy about how the web is bloated, that's too bad and
       | people need it to work well since there won't be a fleshed-out
       | app ecosystem).
        
       | yyyk wrote:
       | Linux phone apps: "Let's reimplement all of Android's basic app
       | system in a less secure language because Java isn't cool and Unix
       | should be always in C"
        
         | randyrand wrote:
         | let's hope they at least use Rust
        
         | bubabug wrote:
         | We don't need to reinvent anything, just adapt desktop programs
         | to a smaller screen. You can still run java programs if you
         | prefer using a slow, overcomplicated programming language.
         | However I will stick to GTK4.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Maybe glade will support Gtk4 still in this decade, meanwhile
           | I rather use JetPack Composer.
        
             | marcodiego wrote:
             | AFAIK glade won't support Gtk4. Cambalache and drafting are
             | major promises for that:
             | https://blogs.gnome.org/xjuan/2021/02/28/cambalache/
             | https://gitlab.gnome.org/chergert/drafting
        
         | nsizx wrote:
         | That's okay, nobody will ever use these applications, so they
         | don't pose a security issue to anybody.
        
         | marcodiego wrote:
         | Linux phones are much more about freedom, privacy, control,
         | ownership and choice than about java not being cool. I watch
         | the linux phones progress since qt greenphone and your comment
         | is the worst one I've read about it more than a decade.
        
           | yyyk wrote:
           | My comment wasn't about the Linux phone (I get what you
           | wrote) but about Linux phone _apps_. The smarter play would
           | have been to fork AOSP, but if not that, at least do not
           | write the userland in C.
        
             | marcodiego wrote:
             | Using AOSP really looks like a smart move. F-droid is
             | already a finely curated app repository and very clear
             | about anti-features.
             | 
             | Nevertheless, I don't think linux on phones, apart from the
             | UI, is very different from linux on the desktop. So it can
             | be stable and secure. If anbox manages to run well on these
             | distros then there will be no lack of apps.
             | 
             | The UI will take some time to mature but, after all, not
             | using AOSP doesn't seems like a dumb move.
        
               | yyyk wrote:
               | The threat model is different, we really do have to lock
               | down phones a bit more because they're used for user
               | identification (but I think not to the draconian level
               | Google and Apple do).
               | 
               | The result of not using AOSP is having to reimplement
               | stuff, and it's not like this ecosystem has a lot of free
               | labour just waiting around. Yes, Google would have
               | diverged, but so would the community. If you're already
               | willing to go for a Linux phone, compatibility probably
               | isn't your main concern.
               | 
               | I still wish them luck. With the way Apple and Google are
               | going, there may be no other choice eventually.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | I worked with Maemo (N900) and OpenMoko, back in a day.
             | Before that with Nokia and MyOrigo. You are 100% correct,
             | Apps need to be tightly coupled with the underlying UI
             | framework. Outside AOSP, Only Flutter and Qt are credible
             | contenders with the amount of developers and resources. It
             | takes at least a team of 50 - 100 people to make a UI
             | framework for a smart phone. Gnome and KDE can barely make
             | it to desktop.
             | 
             | Also, anything interpreted like JavaScript or Python is too
             | slow for UI apps. Not because of CPU, but because of
             | startup delay caused by the IO hit and getting the code
             | running.
        
             | bubabug wrote:
             | If your goal was to make a worse version of android, that
             | would be a smart play.
             | 
             | But mobile linux can be more than a dumbed down mobile OS.
             | Writing apps in this way makes it capable of "convergence",
             | which means it can run a full desktop OS.
        
               | yyyk wrote:
               | Should we want convergence? 'Converging' OSs so far are
               | horrible either for desktop or phone (e.g. Windows 8).
               | 
               | Ordinary apps could have been kept in Java while still
               | allowing a full developer environment with the typical C
               | tools (something Android/iOS aren't interested at all to
               | do).
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-
               | wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
        
             | SahAssar wrote:
             | If you define "Linux Phone" as including AOSP (android)
             | then the term is basically meaningless since by that
             | definition we have had linux phones for 15+ years.
             | 
             | The "linux phone" movement is not about creating another
             | AOSP fork.
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | I don't see how AOSP is not free enough, or is not Linux
           | enough underneath.
           | 
           | I think these programs are much less resource-hungry than a
           | JVM-based phone suite.
           | 
           | Though yes, I wish it wasn't C or C++, but Rust, Zig, Golang,
           | D, what have you. The problem is that all GUI toolkits worth
           | considering in the native space are either deeply C (GTK,
           | fltk), or deeply C++ (Qt), and adapting them to these
           | languages is neither idiomatic nor safe.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | Note that Android has been using ahead of time compiling,
             | not JVM, for a better part of a decade now. Java does not
             | imply JVM run-time.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Android doesn't use a JVM, and does a mix of JIT and AOT
             | with PGO.
             | 
             | https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/jit-
             | compiler?...
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | Glad to see us moving more and more to a linux phone ecosystem.
       | Obviously this ecosystem is still early but exciting to see the
       | foundations being laid.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | True. The way to get the users interested and increase adoption
         | is by having the majority of Android apps being available on
         | the Linux phone ecosystem fully working.
         | 
         | On top of that, they need to be quick or else Google will
         | steam-roll them silently with Fuchsia and the Flutter ecosystem
         | right under everyone's noses.
        
           | okamiueru wrote:
           | Wouldn't the flutter sdk be viable as a desktop target?
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-15 23:02 UTC)