[HN Gopher] Bottled water is 3,500 times worse for the environme...
___________________________________________________________________
Bottled water is 3,500 times worse for the environment than tap
water
Author : kitkat_new
Score : 151 points
Date : 2021-08-15 17:35 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.euronews.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.euronews.com)
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Just reading the headline:
|
| How bad is tap water for the environment? AFAIK, not bad at all.
|
| And 3,500 times 0 is 0.
| zachrip wrote:
| Okay...?
| rtkwe wrote:
| Nothing has zero environmental impact, at the very least
| there's energy and chemicals used to pump and treat tap water.
| cosmotic wrote:
| Actual study:
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...
| GrumpyNl wrote:
| I never carry a water bottle and im never hydrated.
| haltingproblem wrote:
| This bizarre thing is from a health perspective bottled water is
| _toxic_ for you.
|
| Plastic, especially new plastic, actually leaches compounds into
| water. As plastic gets old, its leaching capacity goes down. Old
| plastic is safer than newer plastic. However, most plastic
| bottles, including BPA-free are estrogenic. They are bad for men
| and women causing a variety of problems which are still poorly
| understood.
|
| The worse use-case is plastic filled bottles, like water, that
| have sat or have been transported in hot environments which is to
| say all of them. Ditto for hot takeout food served in plastic
| containers - soups, curries, etc.
|
| People who buy bottled water are literally paying money to get
| poisoned for a teeny bit of convenience. I know most water
| fountains are not cleaned properly but that water is safer (by
| orders of magnitudes, but I have no data to cite) than bottled
| water.
|
| A lot of this is problematic for the evidence driven folks. But
| absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but please use the
| precautionary principle.
| Jiro wrote:
| Suppose that for some reason tap water was actually completely
| neutral for the environment. It produced zero change in either
| direction.
|
| They could have headlines reading "bottled water is over 3000
| million billion trillion googol times worse for the environment
| than tap water".
|
| They could then follow up with the same statement about cars,
| straws, recyclable straws, spinach, or anything with any non-zero
| effect at all.
|
| "How many times worse" is a nonsense comparison meant for
| sensationalism.
| cardosof wrote:
| Yes, but people still buy it (and market is bound to grow,
| ceteris paribus) because they think tap water is worse somehow.
| And with crumbling public water infrastructure in many countries,
| that's not really far from the truth.
| bialpio wrote:
| Do you have a source to back up the claim from your last
| sentence? My understanding is that if you can cook with your
| tap water, then it should also be safe to drink (or can be made
| safe to drink by boiling it). If you're worried about lead or
| sth else in your water supply, you might as well disconnect it
| from your kitchen.
| cardosof wrote:
| You may find it biased but here it is.
|
| https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/trend/archive/spring-2019/how-d.
| ..
| bialpio wrote:
| Thanks! This seems to be US-specific, and I'd be interested
| to read about other places (the original claim was about
| "many countries"). Sibling comments seem to disagree, at
| least when it comes to Europe.
| Beaver117 wrote:
| Tap water is contaminated with numerous chemicals (known and
| unknown).
| wolfi1 wrote:
| so is bottled water
| jhoechtl wrote:
| A claim which doesn't hold the test of science. Do you have a
| stake in Danone?
| carstenhag wrote:
| Don't talk in generic terms if it doesn't apply at all
| places. In Germany for example, tap water is perfectly fine.
| Some might not like it that much because it perhaps is too
| hard or something, or your house might have old pipes, but it
| is healthy.
| MikeDelta wrote:
| Depends on the country. In some European countries tapwater
| is extremely well controlled and can be considered cleaner
| than bottled water. I wouldn't say that the contamination is
| unknown:
|
| https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/water/drinking-
| wate...
|
| Some companies are even selling tapwater in bottles for a
| good profit, so many drink tapwater from bottles without
| knowing:
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/23/pepsi-
| coke-b...
|
| Water in plastic bottles can contain solvents and
| microparticles, and be worse because of that:
|
| https://www.time.com/5581326/plastic-particles-in-bottled-
| wa...
| iamstupidsimple wrote:
| Not everywhere is Flint, MI
| booleandilemma wrote:
| I live in a hundred-year-old apartment building that is not the
| best maintained. I have no idea about the condition of the pipes
| and I don't know where my water is coming from. I can get a
| filter, but I feel like it's similar to running my own email
| server. Sure, I could do it, but I'd rather put the burden of
| filtering (and quality control in general) on a 3rd party.
|
| Hence I buy bottled water.
| willis936 wrote:
| The last place I lived had over 300 ppm water. The landlord was
| useless at maintaining the building-wide softener, so I just
| installed an under-sink RO system myself. It worked wonders. In
| my new place the water isn't nearly as hard, but still tastes
| slightly off. I'll be installing an RO system here as well.
| wittycardio wrote:
| People like you are why the world is in this mess
| ghaff wrote:
| You could get your water tested if you're concerned.
|
| ADDED: I don't mean this facetiously. Even if I drank bottled
| water rather than tap water (which I don't in general), I
| definitely would want to know if I suspected my tap water
| wasn't potable for some reason.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| It's not as easy or straightforward to test drinking water. I
| tried and failed at Amsterdam, NL just last week. There is no
| easy reliable test for drinking water quality( one that tests
| for common bacteria, heavy metals, minerals and soluble
| pollutants). The only tests I could find were all lead tests,
| but that is just of my many concerns.
| ghaff wrote:
| In the US, if you can't access a pre-existing report, there
| is a list of EPA-certified labs:
| https://www.consumerreports.org/water-quality/how-to-test-
| yo... As that article notes, home tests are probably
| problematic.
|
| I'm a bit surprised there wouldn't be equivalent resources
| in Western Europe.
| sunshineforever wrote:
| Really old pipes will be carrying your water in a calcified
| layer
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| Can confirm that. I've seen that with lead piping.
| xnx wrote:
| You get roughly the same number if you compare the cost of tap
| water and bottled water per gallon. Monetary cost is a pretty
| good rule-of-thumb when estimating environmental impact.
|
| https://slate.com/business/2013/07/cost-of-bottled-water-vs-...
| kitkat_new wrote:
| actually it is not - that's, for instance, why scientists
| suggest various carbon pricing models
| sova wrote:
| Considering the devastation invoked when filling up newly minted
| plastic vessels with rich, inland aquifers, believe this factor
| is not 3500 but actually much higher.
|
| >They used something called a "life cycle assessment" which
| estimates the environmental impact of an item over its entire
| lifespan. That includes the extraction of raw materials,
| manufacturing, transportation, distribution, use and disposal.
|
| Would like to point out that extraction does get more costly over
| time. Think of oil wells or any other resource, the low-hanging,
| easy-to-grab fruits are taken first, then the tech to extract
| must be advanced, then more precarious pursuits in search of
| resource are undertaken and the ecological devastation is quite a
| bit more each successive time.
| dataflow wrote:
| Maybe 60 million Americans avoid tap water because they have
| reasons not to trust their own water, especially post-Flint. [1]
|
| Some quick Googling turns these pages up:
|
| - Consumer Reports founds PFAS in 117 of the 120 water samples
| they tested from across the US [2]
|
| - When [chlorine] mixes with other organic compounds it can
| create a few harmful byproducts, including trihalomethanes and
| haloacetic acids [3]
|
| - Lead poisoning is apparently also a problem in Detroit,
| Pittsburgh, DC [4]
|
| - Arsenic has seeped into the water supply in California,
| Arizona, and New Mexico [4]
|
| I honestly don't know if any of these are incorrect
| misinformation or if people are acting in a misguided fashion,
| but as far as I can see, there certainly doesn't seem to be a
| consensus on that being the case.
|
| [1] https://theconversation.com/nearly-60-million-americans-
| dont...
|
| [2] https://www.consumerreports.org/water-quality/how-safe-is-
| ou...
|
| [3] https://www.businessinsider.com/signs-tap-water-
| contaminated...
|
| [4] https://www.businessinsider.com/toxic-chemicals-tap-
| drinking...
| snypher wrote:
| The most popular bottled water at my store says right there:
| bottled from a municipal source. Is PFAS testing part of
| bottled water QC?
| matwood wrote:
| Municipal source, then likely purified and minerals added
| back (pure water does not taste very good).
| dataflow wrote:
| I have no idea. People are just balancing unknowns against
| partial information, and some people are more risk-averse
| than others.
| pyk wrote:
| One note that these articles and comparisons miss almost every
| single time - including the linked article. Bottled water is
| better for your health vs. the alternatives it sits next to in-
| store - sugar filled drinks, soda and/or diet soda - all of which
| are just as bad for the environment or worse.
|
| When that health comparison is made, it becomes difficult to
| understand how banning or restricting bottled water makes sense
| when the alternative is not really tap water.
| ghaff wrote:
| I haven't been in an office regularly for years but, at one
| point, a company I worked for stopped stocking bottled water
| and gave everyone reusable water bottles. But in part because
| people often wanted something to drink when they were in a
| meeting on another floor people wanted to grab something else
| from the fridge on that floor. They usually grabbed a seltzer,
| the usage of which pretty much shot up to equal the previous
| bottled water consumption.
| noir_lord wrote:
| Last time I worked in an office they solved that problem by
| putting a water cooler in the corner of every meeting room.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| Boy, talk about timing.
|
| I just used up about 16 liters of bottled water in about 4 days
| because we started to doubt that our tap water got us all(family)
| sick at the same time. When I tried to test the water, I found no
| easy way to do so; all test kits on Amazon turns up with
| comically bad reviews. Local water testing lab only tests for
| specific pollutants with legal precedence like Lead, Cadmium,
| Mercury etc. There was not a single trustworthy test I could find
| to say here is a decent test profile we ran on your sample, and
| here is the water quality score.
|
| Context: I moved 2 weeks ago to Amsterdam, NL from Denmark where
| we had been drinking tap water without any thought and trouble.
|
| A scientifically dumb test to get off tap water while we were all
| sick(sore throat, bad stomach, and mild fever - yes, COVID
| negative) worked and we are not sick now. I don't know whether to
| stop using bottled water and go back to tap water or to continue
| this environmentally bad choice of bottled water in fear of
| health.
|
| I used to believe that tap water is a good natural choice as it
| packs minerals and useful natural solubles that would have been
| filtered out in bottled water. But, if it could get me sick, I
| don't know what to do.
|
| Hopefully we don't get the same sickness again now that we are
| drinking tap water, and I could build up my trust again on tap
| water.
| ivolimmen wrote:
| Since I'm Dutch and near Amsterdam (we have the same water
| facility over here) I can guarantee you that the Dutch tap
| water is of very high standard. You only buy bottled water if
| you are a hipster here.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| Thanks. That's comforting to hear. My gut instinct was that
| as well, and I am going back to tap water now.
| Fronzie wrote:
| In case you're curious, look up Bar-le-duc mineral water
| and the place where the city of Utrecht gets it's water
| from.
| hackton wrote:
| I leaved for 3 years in Amsterdam coming from another
| European country, moved flat several times and always had bad
| tap water in my house. I never got sick though, but the taste
| was always awful. My feeling was it was not the water that
| was bad, but more the pipes, as most house I leaved in was
| old. Either way, I gave up and bought water bottle
| barsonme wrote:
| Dumb question: isn't it possible you got sick normally (because
| you moved to a different country, etc.)? And the tap water
| timing coincides with recovering?
| lottin wrote:
| Why do you blame tap water specifically? I've never heard
| anyone getting sick from drinking tap water in a developed
| country.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| It is not scientific at all. Myself, my wife and my 2 year
| old all got sick with the same symptoms, and we did not eat
| the same food in the last few days. Drinking water seemed
| like the common denominator.
| quicklime wrote:
| Time to split the family up into a control and test group.
| For science.
| dariosalvi78 wrote:
| Looks like one of you got a bug and passed to the others
| cortesoft wrote:
| You were all in the same space, though, right? It could
| have been something contagious.
| failrate wrote:
| I'm here to second that drinking the local water in a new
| place will loosen you up even if it is clean.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| Sounds more like a stomach flu to me, which is often spread
| throughout a household via contaminated surfaces.
| lostlogin wrote:
| It happens more often than you'd think. Here is one example
| from New Zealand, where many got sick, lots were hospitalised
| and some may have died. Colleagues describe the bedlam at
| local hospitals and the smell of the place as they were
| inundated with the afflicted.
|
| Whether or not we are a first world country could be queried.
|
| https://watersource.awa.asn.au/community/public-
| health/lesso...
| daigoba66 wrote:
| Happens a lot, though probably mostly isolated cases. But
| sometimes it's a big deal:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis
| [deleted]
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| > There was not a single trustworthy test I could find to say
| here is a decent test profile we ran on your sample, and here
| is the water quality score.
|
| The local authorities are the ones you should be reaching out
| to here, not random Amazon test kits. Testing for microbial
| contamination is difficult and requires specialized equipment
| and training. There is no reliable way to DIY it, unless you
| have a couple of years training in a microbiology lab.
|
| Of course the local water works in any first world country test
| the water every day at the water production station, but a
| common failure mode is that sewage and water lines run in the
| same ditch, and both suffer a breach.
|
| For this reason, water works are typically very interested in
| receiving reports from the public and testing samples.
|
| For Amsterdam, two minutes on Google tells me you should
| contact Waternet. I also found a service page where you can
| check whether your area is within a known fault, a and submit
| your complaint/info. Google Translate works well for reading
| this:
|
| https://www.waternet.nl/service-en-contact/problemen-met-wat...
| theli0nheart wrote:
| > _The local authorities are the ones you should be reaching
| out to here, not random Amazon test kits. Testing for
| microbial contamination is difficult and requires specialized
| equipment and training. There is no reliable way to DIY it,
| unless you have a couple of years training in a microbiology
| lab._
|
| Absolutely not. Remember what happened in Flint, MI?
| Moreover, there can be hyperlocal differences in water
| quality due to factors outside of a water utility's control,
| such as old pipes.
|
| The best approach is to find an independent, non-government
| associated testing facility and send them your water for a
| fee. They have high-end equipment that no consumer would
| reasonably want to acquire and will provide unbiased results.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Note that I wrote "in any first world country". I'm sorry
| if your country does not qualify as such. Then the best
| solution is to keep paying for bottled water, or to move.
|
| I'm not being flippant here. If, on a general basis, you
| can't trust the country where you live to provide you with
| access to clean drinking water, then you have literally
| failed the UN's Sustainable Development Goal no. 6: "By
| 2030, achieve universal and equitable access to safe and
| affordable drinking water for all." This is something that
| _every nation on earth_ aims to achieve during this decade.
| mrmuagi wrote:
| > Note that I wrote "in any first world country". I'm
| sorry if your country does not qualify as such.
|
| > I'm not being flippant here.
|
| Sorry to say, (Canadian here), yes you came off as being
| flippant. The issues with Flint seem to be larger than my
| understanding, but it was not the least contributed by
| issues and injustices with the demographic (majority
| black) and the lack of federal aid. Saying it's not a
| first world country isn't wise of you for these reasons
| and more.
|
| > Then the best solution is to keep paying for bottled
| water, or to move.
|
| Obviously not the best solution, just a bandaid over the
| problem in lieu of the fact that "Bottled water is 3,500
| times worse for the environment than tap water".
|
| > you can't trust the country where you live to provide
| you with access to clean drinking water, then you have
| literally failed
|
| No. The government around the citizen failed. Saying the
| the victim failed is quite telling of your assumption
| that the individual is to blame if the government has in
| some capacity, in some municipal area, failed.
|
| > literally failed the UN's Sustainable Development Goal
| no. 6
|
| The goal is tied to a future date, you cannot fail it by
| definition in 2021.
| Xylakant wrote:
| To add an example, Berlin just had a "boil water and
| don't shower" order out for some regions because 2
| samples of their continuous water testing regime showed
| low amounts of some specific bacteria. The problem was
| rectified within a day. Tap water is taken serious here,
| regulations are far stricter than for bottled water.
| noir_lord wrote:
| Same in the UK - we do it so well that water safety isn't
| a thing anyone thinks about because tap water is simply
| safe.
|
| I'm 41, I've drank "council pop" (what my grandma sweetly
| called it) since I was old enough to turn the tap and
| never once gotten ill.
|
| Local water company does half a million tests a year -
| 99.949% of all tests are excellent and of the remainder
| vast majority are within acceptable guidelines (they go
| way beyond the _mandated_ standard).
| philipps wrote:
| Tap water in Amsterdam is tested daily and perfectly safe for
| drinking: https://www.waternet.nl/en/service-and-contact/tap-
| water/can...
| rileymat2 wrote:
| Where is it tested? In Flint a lot of the lead came from
| pipes into the house.
| pkaye wrote:
| I the US the water provider is supposed to follow EPA rules
| and sample water at household taps on a yearly basis for
| lead and copper. I wonder if Flint complied with that rule.
| jozvolskyef wrote:
| In 2015, approximately 11000 people got sick in Dejvice, Prague
| 6, after wastewater contaminated the fresh water supply[1]. I
| was out of town, but when I returned in 2016/2017, the incident
| was still fresh in people's memories and their water
| consumption patterns clearly changed in favour of bottled
| water.
|
| [1]: https://vodnihospodarstvi.cz/dejvicka-havarie-a-epidemie-
| neb...
| Retric wrote:
| Even if you don't trust tap water, reusable 5 gallon jugs are
| still a much cheaper and more environmentally friendly option.
|
| As to everyone getting sick at the same time, that's likely a
| function of your move. Moving long distances to a new area
| means being exposed to a huge range of new microbes. It's very
| common to get sick in the first several months as your immune
| system adapts.
| pajko wrote:
| As a temporary solution Brita water filter might help. For the
| longer term, you could install a reverse osmosis water purifier
| in the kitchen sink.
|
| https://www.thespruce.com/best-reverse-osmosis-systems-45868...
| jules wrote:
| This was tested and they found that this made the water
| quality worse, because the Dutch tap water is already of high
| quality and the water filter makes it dirtier because
| bacteria start to grow on it after a while. In fact, the
| water company filters the water through the same type of
| activated carbon filter, except that the filter in the Brita
| is at best a couple of centimeters long whereas the filter of
| the water company is 2x250 centimeters long (and they use
| other filtration steps, not just activated carbon).
| syntaxing wrote:
| Interesting situation. Is there a particular reason a reverse
| osmosis filter isn't a good possibility? I guess the better
| test would of been to have half the family keep on drinking tap
| water and see if anything changes but at the expense of the
| control group.
| pomian wrote:
| City tap water in Europe and North America is regularly tested
| for common parameters and yearly, more or less, for most other
| constituents(pollutants, minerals, chemicals etc.) It is very
| very unlikely you got sick from the tap water. If you want to
| test your own water, find an "environmental laboratory".
| Communicate with them, they will help you decide which range of
| tests. They will also provide you with the appropriate sample
| bottles. (There are organic and inorganic parameters with
| different protocols for sampling.) It won't be cheap however.
| Especially one time testing. You can spend anywhere from ($CAD)
| 50-150 for inorganic tests (arsenic, lead, etc.) And 150 - 500+
| for organic tests ( DDT, PCB, etc etc.) Cheap and easy - but
| all cities do it all the time, is hardness, pH, etc. If you are
| suddenly sick it is likely organic, and most likely biological
| (bacteria, virus.) Also most likely from food. But, it is fun
| to test your water, and interesting. (Same with the soil around
| you.) The world around us complex and the interweaving of
| systems is fascinating; as is our infrastructure to allow city
| living. (Source for my diatribe: 20+years Environmental
| Engineer)
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| The city may well test tap water and find it to be safe, but
| this testing wouldn't account for contamination that happens
| downstream from their systems, e.g. caused by poor building
| plumbing.
| Xylakant wrote:
| I'm on the equivalent of a HOA in Berlin, and we are
| required by law to have periodic checks of the tap water,
| mostly for Legionella bacteria but afaik also general water
| quality.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| Proper testing includes samples from the faucets of random
| households.
|
| California cities do it every year, and the results are
| public: just look up "water quality report" or "consumer
| confidence report" + your city.
| sershe wrote:
| A typical thing they do in less developed countries where tap
| water is decent but not quite reliable enough is either install
| an in-line filter for drinking water, or get a pitcher filter
| (like a Brita).
| leipert wrote:
| Our rental agreement (Germany) actually contains instructions
| on how to ensure that a certain kind of bacteria (legionella)
| doesn't build up in the apartments plumbing.
|
| If you are gone for > 7 days, open your taps on the hottest
| setting and let them run for 2 or 3 minutes. Let them run for a
| minute on the cold setting.
|
| If you have a house rather than an apartment, maybe check
| whether there is any filtering system installed that would need
| a potential replacement.
| msie wrote:
| At least in Britain, if there are separate taps for hot and
| cold, you shouldn't trust drinking from the hot tap:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfHgUu_8KgA
| gruez wrote:
| >Local water testing lab only tests for specific pollutants
| with legal precedence like Lead, Cadmium, Mercury etc.
|
| Does the pollutant list only contain chemicals, or do they
| include microbial pollutants as well? The EPA for instance has
| standards for microbial pollutants in addition to chemical
| pollutants.
| reacharavindh wrote:
| I believe the city water department tests for a more detailed
| set of factors(I could not get proper information because I
| moved here recently, and I don't yet speak Dutch). However,
| the tests I could buy/order from commercial labs around here
| only tests for specific ones (Lead, Mercury, Cadmium, Nickel,
| Coliform bacteria). I'm guessing that is because those were
| the common culprits.
| jules wrote:
| By law, the water from the tap may only contain 1 microgram
| pollutants per liter, and the water companies usually set
| themselves stricter standards (and stricter than the
| standards for bottled water, IIRC). Assuming you drink 2
| liters per day that is 0.066 grams over the course of a 80
| year life. If the cause of the illness of your family is is
| the tap water, then it is very likely a problem with the
| plumbing in or near your house.
|
| However, even that is very unlikely. Even if the plumbing
| in your house is lead, that's not likely to make you ill
| immediately (but it will over the long term). If the pipes
| leak, then the water is more likely to go out than
| pollution getting in, due to the water pressure. Given that
| several members of a family get ill, the overwhelmingly
| more likely explanation is either a contagious disease, or
| food poisoning.
| lmilcin wrote:
| I drink bottled water because if I did not the next choice would
| be stuffing myself with soft drinks and other crap. I can only
| drink so much coffee and tea per day.
|
| Tap water just doesn't taste well on its own.
|
| I would be first to switch to drinking tap water if I could
| somehow make it taste well.
| nvllsvm wrote:
| Have you considered a reverse osmosis system? It made my tap
| water palletable.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Did you try just putting it in open jugs in the fridge for a
| few hours? It's surprising how much chlorine, dissolved gas
| etc. you get rid of with this. It's my go-to when travelling to
| places with safe-but-off-tasting water.
| dataflow wrote:
| > safe-but-off-tasting water
|
| How do you actually tell if the water is safe? There have
| been so many news reports about unsafe tap water across the
| US.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Sorry, I was assuming you live in a country where you can
| trust the public water authorities.
| [deleted]
| bserge wrote:
| Why would you assume bottled water is safer?
| dataflow wrote:
| I imagine people assume this because similar news reports
| haven't come out about bottled water, and because common
| advice when traveling to other countries with unsafe tap
| water is "use bottled water".
| [deleted]
| zahma wrote:
| There are water filters for this. I don't know what your
| situation is, but a BWT water filter in a carafe is perfectly
| capable of removing most adjuncts and making water taste like
| water again. I use these filters to brew coffee, and when I
| have a fresh filter in place, I cannot tell the difference
| between that water and Volvic. And my resulting brew will give
| any respectable cafe a run for their money. From this taste
| test, I can infer that my filtered water is at least as blank a
| palate as the Volvic. If I brewed with regular tap, I would not
| get clear flavors from the coffee's oils because the tap water
| has plenty of solids already dissolved and can't hold the
| preferred coffee.
|
| I know of at least one high end coffee shop that uses BWT's
| industrial filters - basically a canister the size of a 1L soda
| bottle. In reality, it would take an afternoon, some plumbing
| knowledge, and tools to install this at a home or office.
|
| I think there's a huge niche market here to better equip homes
| for clean water with the added benefit that they aren't using
| tons of plastic (the main downside from the small carafe
| filters).
|
| Of course there's a lot more you can do to adapt your
| filtration of local water source. That's because your tap water
| is treated and tastes funny because there are some dissolved
| chemicals or compounds. You can neutralize those with some
| basic ingredients.
|
| https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/barista-hustle-water-reci...
| foobiekr wrote:
| Get a charcoal filter like a Brita or similar.
| barsonme wrote:
| They make water flavorings. I'm sure there are plenty of zero
| calorie options. Or, add some lime and lemon.
| andrepd wrote:
| Filters are available.
| enlyth wrote:
| > Tap water just doesn't taste well
|
| If this isn't the pinnacle of western privilege then I don't
| know anymore
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| I don't understand why people don't just buy water filters.
| [deleted]
| MikeDelta wrote:
| Depends on where you are. In Europe there is no need for that
| at all.
|
| What kind of water filter would that be? A simple small filter
| you attach to the faucet or a proper arm-sized cylinder you
| place somewhere along your water pipes? I am not sure how well
| those filters remove all contaminants like heavy metals and
| such.
| andrepd wrote:
| "Europe" is a very large place. In many places in Germany for
| instance, straight tap water is quite disgusting to drink.
|
| I'm an European, and that tinge of superiority is quite
| grating.
| skrause wrote:
| > _In many places in Germany for instance, straight tap
| water is quite disgusting to drink._
|
| I'm a German who has been to many German places and I've
| never encountered tap water that was disgusting to drink...
| Xylakant wrote:
| I think "disgusting" is probably too hard of a word for
| it, but you can taste substantial differences in tap
| water in Germany and whenever I move it takes a bit of
| time until I get used to the local flavor. Berlin is
| different from Munich. Volvic tastes like Volvic tastes
| like Volvic and I can't quite get used to the taste of
| Evian.
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| It's much worse in the US, tons of heavy metals, chlorine,
| fluoride, etc.
|
| Berkey water filters are a good basic option.
| syntaxing wrote:
| I would not classify chlorine and fluoride as the same
| group as heavy metals... While it sounds dangerous, it's
| hard to argue there isn't a net positive to use fluoride
| and chlorine to society when it comes to water
| distribution. Also to note, there is nothing particular
| special of Berkeley filters compared to other carbon
| filter, and it does not filter heavy metals (you typically
| need ion exchange filter for that). The company has a bunch
| of filter claims and state that they haven't gotten the NSF
| certification because of cost reasons but I find it really
| hard to believe that is the case.
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| I always forget that you're not allowed to object to
| having chemicals added to your water, hence the downvotes
| I guess.
|
| Good to know about Berkey, there are lots of options out
| there.
| lstodd wrote:
| Depends on where in Europe you are.
|
| In most of eastern you need partuculate, charcoal and ion-
| exchange in series to somewhat approach acceptable levels of
| shit in it.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Bottled water is too cheap and convenient. The people living
| today won't even have to deal with any real consequences to the
| environment. Give people a reason to care, while first
| accepting that, on the whole, people don't care about future
| generations of life on this planet.
| andrepd wrote:
| Sadly this is the truth. Most people do not really care
| beyond their immediate self-interest, they will give up
| principles or jeopardise the future or other people for very
| very minor conveniences.
|
| You need to give people a reason to care by appealing to
| their self-interest. The only way I can see this regarding
| this problem is a tax on single-use plastics to make them
| very expensive.
| asciimov wrote:
| If you want to make people stop using water bottles you have to
| improve the water going to their house.
|
| I've been to very few places (in the US) that the water tasted
| good from the tap. One was a major metro, the others were places
| with well water.
|
| My parents live in a medium sized Texas city that has tap water
| that is typically brown, sometimes it comes out of the tap foamy.
| Some filter it, but many just buy bottled.
|
| I use a simple filter at home to improve taste. However, after
| living in hurricane and tornado prone areas, I keep a small
| supply of water on hand (a few cases of bottled) for emergencies.
| walkedaway wrote:
| > If you want to make people stop using water bottles you have
| to improve the water going to their house.
|
| Reverse osmosis and similar systems are affordable especially
| compared to the cost of bottled water.
| gruez wrote:
| >My parents live in a medium sized Texas city that has tap
| water that is typically brown, sometimes it comes out of the
| tap foamy
|
| Source/pictures? I find it hard to believe such water would be
| allowed by the EPA. This is also strange, considering that I've
| been to countries without drinkable tap water (eg. you have to
| boil it), and the water doesn't look like that.
| asciimov wrote:
| I don't have pictures of said water. The water is safe to
| drink, but it just looks unpleasant and occasionally smells
| too.
|
| I think it has to do with minerals in the supply being
| stirred up by rain water and reacting with treatment
| chemicals.
|
| EPA doesn't care to much about the taste, color, or
| appearance of the water as long as it is "safe" to drink.
| hobs wrote:
| So you must have missed that whole "flint michigan" thing
| huh?
|
| One google search away
| https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-worst-tap-water-
| us-20...
| Tarsul wrote:
| also a worthwhile (hollywood) rendition of a waste water
| scandal by dupont in the USA: Dark Waters;
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/
| gruez wrote:
| IIRC the problem with flint michigan water was high lead
| concentration, which isn't something that's as visible as
| the gp described. I can see how elevated lead levels can
| fly below the radar, but not brown water.
| hn8788 wrote:
| Might just be an issue with nearby pipes, and not
| something affecting the entire supply. When the municpal
| water pipes get cleaned around where I live, they put up
| signs saying that your water might be brown or rust
| colored for a few days, but to just let the tap run for a
| few seconds before you start drinking it or showering.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| Does your city have water quality reports online? Dallas
| publishes theirs online.
| dataflow wrote:
| > If you want to make people stop using water bottles you have
| to improve the water going to their house.
|
| It's not that simple. The quality isn't the cause, the cause is
| people's lack of trust in their water. It's not like you can
| just judge water quality by its color and taste.
|
| e.g., "Drinking water from 118 of 120 (!!!) locations tested
| across the US had levels of PFAS or arsenic above Consumer
| Report's recommended maximum, or detectable amounts of lead."
| [1]
|
| [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/water-quality/how-safe-is-
| ou...
| bobthechef wrote:
| > It's not like you can just judge water quality by its color
| and taste.
|
| That _is_ part of what determines water quality.
| cosmotic wrote:
| Are they taking into account the carbon footprint of the enormous
| yachts the Nestle executives buy and operate with the profits
| from water sales in their analysis?
|
| What about the pipe fitters union lobbying to require lead pipes
| decades after universal acceptance of the dangers of lead and the
| enormous cost to replace?
| gruez wrote:
| That seems like unnecessary ragebait and opens up the metric to
| all kinds of manipulation. eg. is microsoft office better or
| worse libreoffice than once you factor in that bill gates'
| philanthropic activities?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I think this about my government's decision to implement
| electricity metering in all new apartment construction. Except
| apartment dwellers have little control over their appliances
| (they're generally included), and you pay $13+/month in account
| fees for the individual meters.
|
| They even tried to push this on existing apartments, but I'd
| have to consume 33% less than average just to break-even. Hard
| to do when HVAC&DHW are central and laundry is common.
|
| So while I would have some incentive to conserve, I end up
| poorer and somebody else gets rich off account fees and likely
| lives a very wasteful life.
|
| Then the transition to smart meters that do time-of-day
| billing, but its been shown to shift demand by under 1 percent.
| Meanwhile the thing consumes a few watts 24/7 + implementation
| capex. Meter-reading is now remote, but what did the meter-
| reader human start doing instead?
|
| > The Environmental Commissioner of Ontario's 2015-16 Energy
| Conservation Progress Report found "a 0.7 per cent reduction in
| peak demand among residential customers" attributed to time-of-
| use pricing over a four-year period.
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/smart-meters-hydro-bi...
| gruez wrote:
| >Meter-reading is now remote, but what did the meter-reader
| human start doing instead?
|
| presumably unemployed. Not that's a bad thing, see:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
| toiletaccount wrote:
| bottled water sucks ass, but how do you quantify this sort of
| thing? it's almost a meaningless number. after 3500 liters
| dispensed from a tap, is there one empty plastic bottle dumped in
| a landfill? or are you supposed to reuse a water bottle 3500
| times before tossing it? are there 3500 times more co2 emissions
| from getting bottled water to my lips? last i checked there isn't
| much carbon involved in pulling from the ground, which isnt even
| how everyone gets their water. no i didnt read the article.
| carstenhag wrote:
| Well you should have. Just to answer one question: You need to
| move the water to the bottling plant, distribute that to the
| retail logistics centers and then distribute it to the retail
| shops.
|
| The buyers are then also more likely to go the the shop by car,
| as heavy things are not great to buy when going by feet or
| bicycle.
| [deleted]
| ljm wrote:
| Not to mention that, if you believe the typical marketing
| bullshit, your bottle water is probably sourced from the Alps
| or some stream in the arse crack of New Zealand and then
| transported across the globe for however long that takes,
| until it finds its way to a store and then to your lips.
|
| Brita filters (or any other filters/jugs) have their own
| environmental costs as well but you can chug through a decent
| amount of tap water before you need to replace one of those.
| Couldn't live without one of those in Barcelona (unless I
| wanted to down a glass full of limestone), and was much more
| useful than lugging back a few huge jugs of bottled water
| every few days.
|
| Back in the UK, not a single reason to buy water in a bottle
| unless you're outside and in a pinch.
| qmmmur wrote:
| Yeah UK water is pretty top notch as is all Australian
| water. I really just cannot understand or really envisage
| what it must be like to not have pure basically flavourless
| (or water flavoured??) water coming out of the tap which is
| 100% safe. How is it so hard to get right?
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Title should be updated to "Bottled water is 1400-3500..." based
| off "Highlights" section of the actual study that cosmotic linked
| to. I've learned firsthand that it's counterproductive to only
| quote the high-end of the range. Comes off as disingenuous.
| Kubuxu wrote:
| I personally buy and drink bottled water for two reasons: 1. It
| tastes better as I enjoy highly mineralized water 2. It satiates
| thirst better.
|
| Water I usually buy has 100ppm magnesium ions, 340ppm calcium
| ions and 14ppm potassium ions and it actually tastes good in
| comparison to tap water. I would buy it in 20L bulk reusable
| bottles if it was available but it isn't.
| dataflow wrote:
| > It satiates thirst better.
|
| I definitely have seen this effect. Do you know why this is? Is
| there a scientific reason why?
| OnlyMortal wrote:
| It's chilled. People like chilled water.
|
| You can save a huge amount of money (and plastic bottles) by
| having a Brita jug in the fridge.
| dataflow wrote:
| Sadly no, that's not it. It definitely helps in lots of
| cases, but I've had perfectly cold tap water that doesn't
| really satiate like bottled water does.
| matwood wrote:
| If I had to guess, added minerals and sodium. When someone
| sweats they are losing more than just water.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| I'd need to see the results of a double blind taste test. What
| you're describing fits the profile of hard tap water.
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| I got blind sided by an argument when visiting a friend recently
| because I carry a reusable water bottle with me whenever I leave
| home for more than a few hours whereas he brings throwaway water
| bottles. At one point he gestures to my bottled water and asked
| "does that make you feel good about yourself ?" implying I am
| virtue signaling.
|
| I explained that I saw a documentary ~10 years ago where the
| claim was if you can do one thing for the environment, please
| stop purchasing bottled water. It seemed like an easy request, so
| why not.
|
| I then rhetorically asked him if he "felt good" about himself
| because he doesn't just throw his trash out the car window, which
| is what we city kids (and adults) used to do in the early 80s.
| "No you don't do it and you don't think about it, right ? It's
| the same with my water bottle. I don't lecture anyone, and I
| honestly didn't think once about what he or others are doing."
|
| Culture changes many times for the better. It's odd though how
| some people are the last to get the memo despite similar
| demographics.
| Evidlo wrote:
| What about reusing containers for drinking water that you would
| otherwise dispose of? I've been using yogurt bottles for my
| drinking water for a while now.
|
| No extra resources wasted to produce a fancy water bottle, and
| you don't need to worry too much if you lose it.
| extra88 wrote:
| Yes, I refill bottled water bottles with tap water. I usually
| replace them once a year. Previously, I would buy whatever
| brand I found that was the right size for how I store them
| but last time I ended up spending more on Evian and the
| bottles are holding up much better. Poland Springs bottles
| use very thin plastic that crumples easily which is good for
| minimizing the amount of plastic used but bad for reuse.
|
| I do wonder if, by reusing the bottles, there could be
| harmful chemicals leeching out.
| riidom wrote:
| Doing a similar thing; I buy a bottle of plastic water (or
| some other soft drink) to reuse as container for tap water. I
| usually replace it when the plastic gets milky, every few
| weeks.
| shkkmo wrote:
| I misplace water bottles on a regular basis. So I buy bottled
| water and re-fill the disposable bottles until they get lost.
|
| The article wholey ignores the costs of production for non-
| disposable water bottles. They absolutely take more resources
| to produce and you thus need to refill any given water bottle a
| certain number of times before you break even with disposable
| bottled water. For absent minded folks like me, constantly
| buying replacement bottles can be a worse impact on the
| environment.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| >> For absent minded folks like me, constantly buying
| replacement bottles can be a worse impact on the environment.
|
| Society doesn't and IMO shouldn't optimize for the absent-
| minded. Do you also loose your keys, wallet and phone on a
| regular basis? Maybe it's not a memory thing but more of a
| value thing.
| animal_spirits wrote:
| I agree it's definitely value based. I've own a hydroflask
| which is a fairly expensive water bottle and I got it for
| free, so I value it pretty highly. I think I'm more likely
| to lose my wallet of plastic/replaceable credit cards than
| I am my water bottle. Plus it's just a big object, so it
| actually takes up (virtual?imaginary?) space in my mind.
| sgspace wrote:
| Why is there a weird stigma about carrying around a reusable
| water bottle? I've experienced it myself when I was younger and
| in school. It's something about preparing for the moment
| compared to just going with the flow of life. I remember being
| categorized, by a girl, as a pretentious nerd soley based off
| my water bottle choice.
| alexashka wrote:
| If a popular sports jock starts carrying a metal water
| bottle, best believe it'll all of a sudden be cool to carry
| one.
|
| It's not what you do, it's where you rank in the social
| dominance hierarchy.
| snypher wrote:
| Sometimes it's easier to make someone feel bad for making a
| better choice, than to consider the reasons why they are not
| making that choice themselves. Also once an mindset like
| being a bottled-water-family is ingrained into a person
| anything that runs contrary to that can seem to be almost
| threatening to one's own behavior.
|
| Someone once told me you can learn everything about a person
| by what they do with their empty cart at the grocery store.
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| A tall bottle on a table is arguably obnoxious and unsightly.
| I just put mine on the floor if it is in line-of-sight of too
| many people especially indoors.
| 1123581321 wrote:
| In school, secondary and college, I remember that you fared
| better socially if you figured out how to not look like you
| were struggling to transport all your things. People were
| unkind to students who had useful rolling packs, for example,
| as well as students who tended to have their hands full in
| the halls. I'd think a water bottle could play into that.
| However, I see my daughter and most of her friends bring them
| everywhere so I think that particular item is perceived
| differently now so long as it's the "right" style.
| bobthechef wrote:
| > you fared better socially if you figured out how to not
| look like you were struggling to transport all your things
|
| To be honest, it does look ridiculous hauling all your shit
| around like some hiker. It lacks grace and is out of
| proportion with the task at hand. This must be an American
| thing. I do not recall students elsewhere roaming school
| halls around like hobos with all their belongings.
| acranox wrote:
| My high school (and middle school too) was big enough
| that the time it took to walk from once class to my
| locker and the to my next class too longer than the time
| we had in between classes. So I had to carry a lot more
| shit than I wanted to. Some kids had classes and lockers
| in better locations. Anyhow, your attitude stinks. Let
| people make their own choices what they carry and don't
| call them hobos without grace because you can't
| understand why they might choose to carry some of their
| things around.
| dataflow wrote:
| > and asked "does that make you feel good about yourself ?"
| implying I am virtue signaling
|
| Is there more context to this conversation? The reason of
| course could've been that, but it also seems like there's a
| chance (not high, I admit) he might've seen the local tap water
| as dangerous and tried to think of a compelling reason why you
| would still drink it despite that. Especially if the topic has
| previously come up.
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| Beach city LA, so water quality isn't bad. As for context,
| he's a pathological right wing troll and we both have ADD and
| find mild periodic confrontation stimulating. Everyone I know
| mocks him for being an absurdist, but he has many friends
| because he's damn funny, helpful, and caring.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| no offense but your friend sounds like kind of an ass
|
| How did he respond to the "you don't and you don't think about
| it" bit?
| throwaway803453 wrote:
| It was kind of a mike drop moment. Honestly, my buddy has
| associated hard-right and anti-left views as part of his
| identity. He doesn't wear a seat belt because he doesn't want
| the gov't telling him what to do. That type of extreme. But
| he's also smart, so I suspect sometimes he says things as a
| cry for help, the way an alcoholic will mock you for drinking
| just one beer because it reminds them that they have habits
| they can't break or have regretfully become part of their
| identity.
| loopz wrote:
| All sorts of insecurities start to show in people when you
| decide to go against the grain, choose for yourself and
| embrace deliberate action without hiding anything. That
| most people tend to think it's because of trying to show
| off rather than a small sacrifice that you eventually stop
| thinking about, is sadly very telling.
|
| It's very natural though to ask about something that is
| different in some way.
| gremloni wrote:
| Smart how? Like a good programmer or creative or just some
| sad contrarian?
| madeofpalk wrote:
| > He doesn't wear a seat belt because he doesn't want the
| gov't telling him what to do. [...] But he's also smart
|
| Is he?
| manicdee wrote:
| You can be a brilliant neurologist and also be anti-vax.
|
| Expertise in one field doesn't imply expertise in others
| even if they appear closely related to the layperson.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| Uh dunno if you saw his, but this morning I read about a
| study that shows that PhDs have the highest by-education
| rate of _not_ getting vaccinated.
| https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-
| educati...
| slim wrote:
| People have weaknesses. Some people are afraid of
| cockroaches. You can't explain all behaviors with logic
| [deleted]
| bobthechef wrote:
| > throw his trash out the car window, which is what we city
| kids (and adults) used to do in the early 80s
|
| This must be an American thing. I do not recall this being the
| case elsewhere that I visited.
| fencepost wrote:
| There were real pushes from the early 70s on to combat
| pollution from many sources. One thing that many Americans
| will remember from then (or from seeing it later) is the
| "Crying Indian" ad from 1971. Pollution also made it into
| songs about little things like the 1969 Cuyahoga River fire
| that provided a lot of push for the passage of the Clean
| Water Act not long after.
| extra88 wrote:
| If they were littering like that in the early 80s, their
| community was very much lagging behind the American culture
| overall. Or maybe it was just the people they were around
| literally being trashy.
|
| It wasn't, and isn't today, an American thing. Plenty of
| countries had, and even still do have, casual attitudes about
| littering.
| majkinetor wrote:
| Unless you clean it like a champ, not sure how sterile your
| bottle is...
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| I've got news for you, none of the dishes you use, at home or
| when you're out are "sterile". The good news is humans don't
| require anything close to this; we're pretty hardy creatures.
| majkinetor wrote:
| Water is a bit different tho as it provides the basic stuff
| for bacterial life and while you cook you process food
| thermally.
|
| I've got bad news for you - look up into antacids and how
| they block acid barrier. Every other one uses them.
|
| I am not into cleaning frenzy, quite the opposite, but
| water should be kept as sterile as possible IMO.
| bserge wrote:
| I use plastic bottles 30+ times. Is there any way to get sick
| or die from this?
| majkinetor wrote:
| It depends on how you keep them. Plastic may leak stuff
| (BPA and friends). Bacteria could build up.
| cartoonworld wrote:
| You can buy some quats (quaternary ammonium compounds) which
| is a good safe food service sanitizer.
|
| Ecolab oasis multiquat is what I buy, it's like $80-100 but
| the dilution ratio means you are unlikely to run out.
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