[HN Gopher] The Case for Optimism
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Case for Optimism
        
       Author : razin
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2021-08-15 16:00 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.warpnews.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.warpnews.org)
        
       | toss1 wrote:
       | I love optimism, and have often been accused of adhering to it
       | myself. To some extent, it is a requirement for civilization and
       | even life, the basis of hope.
       | 
       | But I've observed from decades ago that when we look at progress
       | in science and technology, the future looks unimaginably bright,
       | but when we look at politics and governance, it is incredibly
       | dark. This contrast became massively magnified since 2015.
       | 
       | Yet, even with the ascent of anti-democratic (small-'d') forces
       | coordinating with transnational criminal gangs masquerading as
       | government, I have some optimism that resistance to those forces
       | are organizing. My main question is time -- will it happen in
       | time, or will democracy fail? If so, it'll be some very dark
       | centuries before it rises again. But I'm still hopeful, perhaps
       | best to refer to it as "white-knuckled optimism".
        
         | ABCLAW wrote:
         | >But I've observed from decades ago that when we look at
         | progress in science and technology, the future looks
         | unimaginably bright, but when we look at politics and
         | governance, it is incredibly dark.
         | 
         | I don't really see these as particularly different things. Our
         | era has seen value financialized at almost every level of
         | society by the deployment of transnational technology and
         | institutions, resulting in the inability of national
         | governments to hamper the global flow of anti-social or
         | otherwise criminal resources and money. Some social ills and
         | some policy adjustments simply aren't possible for governments
         | to deal with, either as a result of the ambit of their power,
         | the need for transnational alignment, or the time-sensitive
         | nature for precise solutions to complex problems.
         | 
         | Governments are in an arms race against increasing complexity
         | in social problems. The development of additional command and
         | control technologies, the deployment of extensive surveillance,
         | and the weaponization of that surveillance against populations
         | is directly tied to the intersection between power and
         | technology.
         | 
         | Technology enables power. We can design some technology to
         | specifically disrupt current power structures, but overall
         | technological development creates larger and larger
         | capabilities on the part of those with power; better weapons,
         | better intelligence, more resources, etc.
         | 
         | So we have technology working at both ends, pulling at both
         | sides. It isn't enough that technology allows us to do more;
         | it's the balance between whether or not research tips the scale
         | between the haves and have nots.
        
       | lazyasciiart wrote:
       | Everything he says is equally applicable to belief in religion or
       | an afterlife. The case for believing that the future will be good
       | is that it makes you feel better. So pick whatever explanation
       | you can swallow for this wonderful future - God, the singularity,
       | the essential goodness of human nature, etc - and believe in it
       | as strongly as you can.
        
       | legrande wrote:
       | > To be a good ancestor one must assume that good things can be
       | forwarded.
       | 
       | Many of the old ways are being forgotten, and `Grandma's brain`
       | is not so readily picked anymore since people value their
       | Internet & the hive mind of social media more than the wisdom of
       | their elders.
       | 
       | Also the old way of passing down teachings orally, like in the
       | case of Buddhism and some other religions, is declining. Now it
       | has to be perfectly preserved on the Internet so that people can
       | refer back to it.
        
         | Dudeman112 wrote:
         | >`Grandma's brain` is not so readily picked anymore since
         | people value their Internet & the hive mind of social media
         | more than the wisdom of their elders.
         | 
         | Grandma's brain is racist and when I tried to explain to her
         | that what she sees at Facebook and WhatsApp groups might not be
         | true her brain tilted.
        
           | throwaway_4253 wrote:
           | Aw, come on, way to miss the point. Even African American
           | Grandmas were glued to their televisions during the Cuban
           | Missile Crisis. They lived through the Vietnam protests, the
           | 70's oil shock, Nixon's resignation and stagflation, and then
           | saw the Berlin Wall fall in the 80's. As someone born in the
           | 80's, I can only imagine the difference between what they
           | thought and felt during 9/11 compared to me.
           | 
           | They (usually) have something which younger generations will
           | always struggle with (simply by the nature of not being
           | there), which is _perspective_ on which things are important
           | at what scales. That isn't to say they're always (or even
           | usually) right about everything, but their opinion should at
           | least be valued as part of the conversation.
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | Isn't it relatively likely that there are more people learning
         | Buddhism orally now than there ever have been before?
        
       | viach wrote:
       | > We've encountered nothing we can't potentially improve
       | 
       | This statement is a bit exaggerated, saying optimistically.
        
         | jhayward wrote:
         | It is a nice example of survivor bias.
        
       | dbish wrote:
       | We do need optimists if we are going to dream and build a great
       | future. Techno-optimism has become almost a taboo, sometimes even
       | within the groups that actually work on cutting edge tech (at
       | least on the computing side of things). We shouldn't be naive and
       | ignore potential negatives of course, but more optimism and
       | dreaming of a great future we can build towards should be
       | encouraged.
        
         | moosey wrote:
         | I'm optimistic... That a complete reorganization of our economy
         | and society that leads to happiness and ecological stability is
         | possible.
         | 
         | I am not optimistic that humans can develop the emotional
         | fortitude needed for this reorganization in the time required.
        
         | eropple wrote:
         | I don't see optimism towards technology being a "taboo" at all.
         | I see a lot of people wanting questions answered before world-
         | changing stuff is put into place.
         | 
         | "Ready, aim, fire" is in that order for a reason, yeah?
        
           | dbish wrote:
           | There are too many people who think their questions are the
           | important ones to be addressed before we are allowed to make
           | progress. The more gates/approvers you add before changes can
           | be made or new ideas tried out, the less likely you are to
           | build great things and build fast. Instead you get slow,
           | bureaucratic, design by committee solutions and the more
           | unique technological directions get shelved. One of my
           | favorite Bezos quotes is about this "even well-meaning
           | gatekeepers slow innovation".
        
             | eropple wrote:
             | This reads as "ready, fire, aim, fire again" being a
             | virtue.
             | 
             | It's not, at mega-human scales.
        
               | dbish wrote:
               | So who makes the choices then? Who is the group that
               | validates we are ready to try out a new idea?
        
       | Fricken wrote:
       | "you must maintain unwavering faith that you can and will prevail
       | in the end, regardless of the difficulties, and at the same time,
       | have the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your
       | current reality, whatever they might be."
       | 
       | -Jim Stockdale, describing the Stockdale paradox.
       | 
       | For me to be remotely optimistic, I would need to see more people
       | confronting those brutal facts. They are truly and properly
       | brutal. Too brutal for the Kevin Kelly types.
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | With respect to climate change, there is a complete disconnect
         | between the predictions of doom and the proposed solutions.
         | Electric cars ain't gonna do it. Massive disruption and
         | reordering if the economic order and a real reduction in global
         | well-being are the price to be paid if we're really serious.
         | 
         | I just don't see intellectual honesty among people who claim
         | that climate change is an existential threat.
        
           | Fricken wrote:
           | There will be a reduction in global well being no matter
           | what.
           | 
           | The lesser of 2 evils is something we can choose. The greater
           | is what we'll get if we don't make a choice.
        
           | tuatoru wrote:
           | I think they are honest - they really believe that their
           | proposals are solutions - but also that they are hopelessly
           | innumerate, and ignorant of the time and effort involved in
           | scaling anything up to global scale.
           | 
           | For myself, existential is going way too far. It will
           | transform civilization, yes. One way or another, that's
           | coming. Extinguish every human? No. Not unless we get weeks-
           | long global thermonuclear war - 3700 weeks on the top 10
           | existential threats chart, and _still_ number 1.
        
             | letitbeirie wrote:
             | It would take an absolutely apocalyptic event (or more
             | likely, series of events) to make the human race go extinct
             | but it wouldn't take much more than a prolonged, widespread
             | power failure to push civil society to collapse.
        
         | courtf wrote:
         | This is how I feel as well. I am a pessimist in the sense that
         | without more progress on certain issues, I think life will get
         | worse for future generations. This isn't ignoring the
         | historical arc of progress, and I would argue that pessimists
         | get an undeserved bad rap for pointing out problems when that
         | is exactly how progress happens. Find problems and try to fix
         | them.
         | 
         | Pessimists aren't just people who assume everything will
         | collapse no matter what is done. I believe humanity is capable
         | of overcoming the challenges set before us, but optimism often
         | seems to be naive, or merely a way of ignoring problems in the
         | short term so that we don't experience unpleasant emotions. If
         | we work on solving problems rather than ignoring them, then I
         | don't care if you are a pessimist or an optimist because we are
         | on the same team regardless of disposition.
        
           | oogabadooga wrote:
           | I read that article and some other things on sites as
           | defining optimism as NOT avoiding problems. That one site in
           | particular says the goal is to get more people thinking about
           | the possibilities while specifically acknowledging there are
           | problems. My way of thinking is optimism is about getting a
           | deep understanding of the issues, why they exist, and how
           | humanity has shown time and again we can innovate and come
           | together to solve them. Human progress can accelerate if we
           | come together to do so. It's good debate, and i like that
           | warp and others like them appears to be presenting that side
           | of things. It's an interesting paring with Kevin Kelly, hope
           | to support it more.
        
           | tuatoru wrote:
           | I have no idea why you were downvoted, but I have upvoted.
           | 
           | "If way to the better there be, it exacts a full look at the
           | worst." -- Thomas Hardy.
           | 
           | Unthinking optimism is magical thinking. I blame a steady
           | diet of Disney productions in people's childhoods for this
           | mindset.
        
       | baron_harkonnen wrote:
       | Optimism is essentially the religion of Capitalism. This is
       | because Capitalism is perpetually in debt to tomorrow. Every
       | start up being discussed on HN, every fund people pump their 401k
       | into, every new oil well being dug up, all of these require
       | believing in the future.
       | 
       | The problem is that everything we have today depends on
       | everything being _better_ tomorrow. Optimism isn 't just a nice
       | feeling it's a core ideology that is necessary to keep the whole
       | machine moving forward. If people en masse started to believe
       | tomorrow might not be better than today, and that in the day
       | after tomorrow might be even worse... the faith in our entire
       | system starts to collapse.
       | 
       | People here talk about pessimism as if it's some rampant belief
       | in society and the few optimists there are fighting against the
       | hordes of the non-believer. But true pessimism remains a radical
       | belief, outside of internet forums I have only occasionally met
       | anyone who exhibits even the most mild form of pessimism. Even in
       | academia the core works of most German philosophical pessimists
       | remain untranslated!
       | 
       | Optimists also believe that someone questioning optimism it
       | itself dangerous (which should be the first clue that something
       | is not quite right with the dominant optimist world view).
       | Whereas in practice it is optimism that allows us to perpetuate
       | horrors on every scale without question because "tomorrow it will
       | be better!". Ecological disaster is permitted because we will
       | solve this tomorrow and everything will be okay. Sweatshops,
       | child labor and modern slavery are all permitted because this is
       | just a step in peoples inevitable rises to a better life. The
       | murder of countless civilians around the globe are all
       | justifiable because tomorrow we will have a better world economy,
       | and democracy will spread through the region, making everything
       | better.
       | 
       | Under optimism the shock from any horror is neutered and any
       | atrocity can be trivially excused because the future is bright
       | and we are heading in the right direction. We continue to burn
       | every more fossil fuels because we are going to be fine, we'll
       | figure it out, no reason for despair.
       | 
       | As the final insult to injury, questioning that future becomes
       | heresy and so you cannot even voice your anguish as the world
       | around you starts to collapse.
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | I know that we're not supposed to talk about the voting on
         | comments [1] but I request that we make an exception here and
         | pay attention to something interesting that is happening in
         | this discussion. baron_harkonnen (fitting name for this
         | comment, BTW) explicitly says "People here talk about pessimism
         | as if it's some rampant belief in society and the few optimists
         | there are fighting against the hordes of the non-believer" and
         | "Optimists also believe that someone questioning optimism it
         | itself dangerous". It's therefore interesting to me that
         | baron_harkonnen's comment is getting downvoted literally out of
         | the optimist majority's sight. That seems to go against HN's
         | culture of welcoming and respecting debate so long as the
         | viewpoint seems to be genuine, non-inflammatory, etc.
         | baron_harkonnen is expressing some bleak ideas (as is fitting
         | for a pessimist) but it appears to be a genuine, non-
         | inflammatory perspective.
         | 
         | [1] From HN guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting
         | on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring
         | reading."
        
           | charbonneau wrote:
           | > C'est l'histoire d'un homme qui tombe d'un immeuble de 50
           | etages. Le mec, au fur et a mesure de sa chute, il se repete
           | sans cesse pour se rassurer : << Jusqu'ici tout va bien...
           | Jusqu'ici tout va bien... Jusqu'ici tout va bien. >> Mais
           | l'important, c'est pas la chute. C'est l'atterrissage.
           | 
           | > This is a story of a man who is falling from a 50 story
           | building. He, gradually during his fall, continuously
           | reassures himself "so far, so good... so far so good... so
           | far so good." But what's important is not the fall. It's the
           | landing.
        
             | jjgreen wrote:
             | The opening lines of _La Haine_ , if you haven't seen it,
             | you should.
        
         | lazyasciiart wrote:
         | > outside of internet forums I have only occasionally met
         | anyone who exhibits even the most mild form of pessimism. > As
         | the final insult to injury, questioning that future becomes
         | heresy and so you cannot even voice your anguish as the world
         | around you starts to collapse.
         | 
         | I think these are related. It's very socially difficult to
         | express serious pessimism about the world - I don't think the
         | future is bright, I think it is miserable and you either
         | shouldn't have kids or you should be preparing them for a very
         | different life. I can't really bring myself to say that to all
         | my friends who have or are having children.
        
       | beefman wrote:
       | Better to err on the side of optimism in each thing. Optimism in
       | all things (the future of humanity) is different. There, we
       | should strive to understand the dynamics of the progress that
       | Kelly rightly admires. It's our golden gooose. It's prudent to
       | understand and monitor its health; less so to blindly worship it.
        
       | phenkdo wrote:
       | Pessimists are usually right, and optimists usually make things
       | happen.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | Optimists downplay problems and are annoying to work with,
         | especially if in charge. I rather work with pessimists any day.
         | (As long as we are not talking about like, grumpy vs happy, but
         | more in a technical sense).
        
           | dbish wrote:
           | Maybe it depends on where in the company they are, but it
           | seems to me that most successful founders are pretty
           | optimistic. I know I wouldn't want to work for a pessimist,
           | but I agree that I wouldn't want to be led by a completely
           | unrealistic optimist. There needs to be some awareness of
           | reality, but at the same time the vision and 'reality
           | distortion' can help drive big successes and rally teams imho
        
             | mypalmike wrote:
             | Perhaps the reason successful founders are optimists is
             | that most founders are optimists. Unsuccessful founders are
             | generally optimists too.
        
             | leppr wrote:
             | (Over)optimistim in founders is adapted to the current
             | environment where the competition is over who can raise the
             | biggest mountain of cash. I predict other qualities will
             | become more desirable as the 20 years bull market starts to
             | fade.
        
               | dbish wrote:
               | I'd say Bezos, Larry & Sergey, Jobs, even Zuck seemed
               | pretty highly optimistic in their early days and
               | leadership styles, and that has nothing to do with the
               | current funding climate.
        
           | lostcolony wrote:
           | There's a mentality I've adopted that I find helpful that I
           | call "hopeful pessimism". It's the descriptive form of "Hope
           | for the best; prepare for the worst". You expect the worst
           | outcome, but hope you're wrong.
           | 
           | I think most of the devs I've enjoyed working with have
           | similar perspectives, and often include a dark sense of humor
           | with it. As when the hope runs out, all you're left with is
           | something dark, and being able to laugh at the absurdity of
           | it, to make light of it and minimize it that way, is a
           | helpful coping mechanism, as well as one that can help bind a
           | team together. And also helps avoid falling into despair
           | along the way as the hits come; you can stay hopeful and
           | focused on the desired outcome.
        
             | aschan wrote:
             | At Warp News, where the article is published, we talk about
             | fact-based optimism. I'm explaining what it is here:
             | https://www.warpnews.org/essays/the-case-for-fact-based-
             | opti...
        
       | peterlk wrote:
       | According to this article, I think I rank as an optimist - I tend
       | to trust people, feel that we can solve the problems before us,
       | etc.
       | 
       | But I'm listening to a book right now called The Ascent of
       | Humanity, and it makes some interesting points about the
       | philosophical axioms of the arguments presented in this article.
       | Namely, the argument is that the technological approach -
       | inventing our way out of problems - is doomed to failure over the
       | long term because it creates an accelerating treadmill of
       | required progress in order to solve the problems it creates. This
       | is reflected in economics by the requirement that our output will
       | continue to increase (otherwise debt doesn't work).
       | 
       | I now look at articles like this a bit more skeptically because
       | they assume that technological progress is necessarily good. For
       | example, what argument could be made that painted longevity into
       | one's 90s as a bad thing? Well, we spend an enormous amount of
       | human effort keeping people alive for the last few months of
       | life. At what point is it not worth it to keep people alive any
       | more? Perhaps culturally, we need to become better at coping with
       | and accepting death.
       | 
       | I haven't made up my mind on this, because the case against
       | technology leads to some pretty bizarre conclusions. But I find
       | it worthwhile to consider.
        
         | scottLobster wrote:
         | To be fair a lot of those expenses in the last few months of
         | life are hail-mary attempts at recovery, and in a minority of
         | cases they work. Those options simply weren't available in the
         | past.
         | 
         | The notion that tech creates more and increasing problems is
         | not necessarily true either. Viable Solar and Wind power wasn't
         | a thing until recently, and it creates far fewer problems
         | relative to Coal and Oil. Increasing efficiency is part of
         | technological progress.
         | 
         | Ultimately the case against technology leads to humanity
         | stagnating in some state on this planet until we run out of
         | resources or the sun finally explodes. I'd like to think we can
         | do better over the long term.
        
         | bspammer wrote:
         | > longevity into one's 90s as a bad thing
         | 
         | Absolutely agree. The only way it's worth it to increase
         | lifespan is to increase healthspan at the same time. Currently,
         | most medicine seems to focus on the former.
        
       | danans wrote:
       | > Today's widespread middle class living standard is the result
       | of several one-time events for the planet, such as mass migration
       | into cities, the movement of women into the formal working
       | economy, and pervasive automation of labor.
       | 
       | He forgot a big one: Massive use of fossil fuels, whose long term
       | effects are, depending on where you live, threatening to
       | undermine that very standard of living.
       | 
       | The challenge of this generation will be trying to figure out how
       | to improve and that standard of living while undoing it's fossil
       | fuel dependency. That may in turn require redefining what a high
       | standard of living is.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | Before I clicked, I thought this was going to be an article about
       | Optimism, the new technology for opimistic rollups for Ethereum.
       | 
       | I guess I should't have been so optimistic :)
        
       | pulkitsh1234 wrote:
       | I am so far down the pessimistic rabbit hole, that for each point
       | he mentioned my mind goes towards what to me seems like the
       | elephant in the room.
       | 
       | "Total Urbanization" - What should we do with its impact on the
       | environment ? How will total urbanization be sustainable (i.e.
       | who will buy your waste now ?) ? Should we even think about this,
       | or just try to build technology to leave this planet ?
       | 
       | "Universal Connectivity" - How do we address rise in anxiety and
       | other mental illnesses due to this rise of total connectivity.
       | 
       | "Ubiquitous AI" - We all know the pitfalls here. Hint: We are not
       | able to secure the "Ubiquitous Internet", how will we secure the
       | "Ubiquitous AI" ? AI related hacking incidents will be
       | astronomically more damaging (for ex. let's replace nurses with
       | AI robots so that they can properly care for patients without
       | getting tired, now this system gets deployed, obviously it will
       | be connected to some kind of "knowledge base" (to
       | train/retrain/get updates), what happens if this gets hacked,
       | there would be direct impact on people's lives). This is the same
       | argument as cloud connected self driving cars.
       | 
       | I don't want to go further, I hate my pessimism, I WANT to be
       | optimistic, I don't enjoy my pessimism, it gives me no joy. Even
       | with so many academic disciplines, unfortunately we can only keep
       | a bunch of them in our head to think about problems/ideas/etc and
       | the ones which are left out, often that becomes the cause of my
       | pessimism.
       | 
       | For instance, when creating the "algorithm" for the social media,
       | what are the chances that they had a psychologist or even a
       | sociologist in their team (during the nascent stages). Even if
       | they had, did they have the same decision making powers (as MBAs
       | ?)
       | 
       | Even if we consider "Long Termism", what have we borrowed from
       | the ancient wisdom(s) in our modern world ? Obviously we have
       | biologically evolved from them and we can establish a chain of
       | information going back to the ancient civilizations. But even
       | then, we have lost lot of our touch with this very Earth itself,
       | we lost our respect for it, we have lost our respect for the
       | stars, our quest for industrialisation (of course with its
       | merits) has affectively wiped lots of our ancient wisdom. In this
       | information age, we should have been starting where things were
       | left, but it seems like we want to start our new "beginning"
       | because now we are more "intelligent", now we know more laws and
       | algorithms.
       | 
       | If we assume asteroid impacts, on large scale cataclysmic events,
       | what kind of "long termism" will exist ? Even now we are finding
       | hints that there could have been lost civilisations on earth.
       | Their information and wisdom is now completely lost.
       | 
       | The issue I feel is that, we think the world revolves around us,
       | we think the nature is there to provide us resources, provide us
       | shelter, and that has lead us to completely ignore that this
       | world, this universe was there before us and will exist after us.
       | If we get wiped out, we get wiped out.
       | 
       | The only source of optimism I have are completely selfish points.
       | I am grateful I can see, hear, move, feel, eat, type. I am
       | grateful that I can have impact on lives of others directly or
       | indirectly. I am grateful that I have a convincing experiencing
       | of free will. I am grateful that our capitalistic society has
       | structures in it to provide healthcare to the ill. I am grateful
       | to have a chance to witness this reality.
        
         | DangitBobby wrote:
         | Thank you for writing all of this. I think undying optimism was
         | okay when you really couldn't do _that much_ harm with your
         | terrible decisions based on false optimism. That 's no longer
         | the case. I also think, practically speaking, unfounded
         | optimism will be the reason we fail to address Climate Change.
         | It's time for realism now.
        
           | richspuller wrote:
           | Optimism and realism should go hand in hand. Proper optimism
           | is not about dismissing the fact that real problems do exist,
           | and are very serious, but in the realization that we are
           | equipped and able to find solutions and implement them.
           | Climate change for example, there is so much going on in the
           | Green Tech sector, innovations and companies emerging
           | everywhere to take steps toward solving this. Sadly,
           | mainstream media doesn't cover these things. Warp News site
           | that posted this Kevin Kelly article has a lot of great
           | stories on the topic, among many others.
           | 
           | https://www.warpnews.org/green-tech/
        
       | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
       | I used to take Kelly seriously. Back in the 90s he was boosting a
       | glorious connected utopia of free education, explosive creativity
       | and endless opportunity.
       | 
       | What we got was personal surveillance by huge monopolies, a toxic
       | culture of disinformation and social media driven by
       | "engagement", and the fathomless banality of an IT economy
       | devoted largely to ad tech.
       | 
       | And none of the real problems - climate change, wealth
       | distribution, democratic stability - are any closer to being
       | solved.
       | 
       | I'm out of patience. He's always been a prophet of comforting
       | nonsense, and this is another meaningless sermon from the top of
       | Happy Clappy Mountain.
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | You know, I wonder how much ad tech stifles innovation in
         | alternate models. If ad tech disappeared would we all be paying
         | tiny fees for everything online? Would smaller businesses be
         | more successful?
        
           | mordae wrote:
           | Yes.
        
         | creamytaco wrote:
         | People like Kelly (and there's loads of them) are so insulated
         | from normality that one can't possibly see them as anything but
         | useful idiots to the techonomic powers that be. Their
         | delusional optimism acts as a constant counterweight to people
         | beginning to ACT in the real world in order to effect change.
        
         | bspammer wrote:
         | > free education
         | 
         | Many top universities release entire courses for free. YouTube
         | is an incredible resource for learning. Khan academy,
         | Wikipedia, sci-hub, library genesis, all free. I can
         | confidently say I've learned more from the internet than I have
         | from books and university combined.
         | 
         | > explosive creativity
         | 
         | The internet is nothing if not novel. That's precisely why it
         | holds our attention so well - it's an endless source of
         | creativity and new things.
         | 
         | > endless opportunity
         | 
         | Again, surely this has come to pass? My job certainly wouldn't
         | be possible without the internet. There are tens of not
         | hundreds of millions who make a living purely online.
         | 
         | No doubt it has caused all the negative things in your comment
         | too, but they're in addition to the positives not instead of
         | them.
        
         | goatlover wrote:
         | There's tons of free education, creativity and opportunity on
         | the internet alongside the darker stuff. Being pessimistic
         | means only seeing the problems and not the progress.
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | All we got was the entirety of human knowledge in our pockets,
         | functionally for free.
         | 
         | I don't like ad tech and I'm not dismissing that modern
         | software has problems, but I think there's a lot to be
         | optimistic about.
         | 
         | On most metrics (infant mortality, poverty, violence) - things
         | are massively better than they were thirty years ago.
        
           | holoduke wrote:
           | Metrics metrics. The only metric I care about is happiness. I
           | rather die when I am 50 than living in a cage till I am 80.
        
             | NotSammyHagar wrote:
             | Wait till you are 50, see if you feel the same - assuming
             | you aren't 50. There are other cages in life, family, job,
             | spouse, expectations, that prevent all of us from being
             | "free". Maybe you have a sick spouse or kid that needs
             | constant care. I'm willing to be there for them even if I
             | can't be free in the last third of my life.
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | I really don't think happiness is a good single metric to
             | judge your life by. If pure happiness is all that matters,
             | should you just quit everything and do heroin all day? You
             | would feel really happy.
             | 
             | Life is about many things, and happiness is only one part.
        
               | joelbluminator wrote:
               | > should you just quit everything and do heroin all day?
               | You would feel really happy.
               | 
               | No he wouldn't. He would become addicted very fast and
               | eventually live on the streets, Heroin addicts are as
               | miserable as can be. If there was an actual happy pill
               | that worked I don't see why we shouldn't take it, there
               | isn't one.
        
               | TchoBeer wrote:
               | >If there was an actual happy pill that worked I don't
               | see why we shouldn't take it
               | 
               | Like the Soma from Brave New World. When I reread that
               | book last year I realized how useful and good that drug
               | would be.
        
       | discreteevent wrote:
       | The article makes some good points but: "the liberation of humans
       | from their unwanted jobs" shows him to be out of touch. There is
       | a lot of manual repetitive labour that people enjoy and take
       | pride in. And these jobs are often one of the only ways of
       | ensuring distribution of wealth.
        
       | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
       | > I am talking about the state of the world and its future on
       | average global terms.
       | 
       | There is little cause for optimism on global terms. The
       | decentralization that Kevin Kelly, Thomas Friedman and others
       | lauded has led to a predictable increase in global insecurity by
       | almost every measure (See below). The self-organization and
       | techno-utopianism Kelly predicted in "Out of Control" (A book I
       | loved enough to read twice) hasn't materialized - quite the
       | opposite in-fact.
       | 
       | International Peace Institute:
       | https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/cperry1848/viz/Intern...
       | 
       | World Bank Political Stability Rankings:
       | https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/wb_political_stabi...
       | 
       | IMF Financial Stability:
       | https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/GFSR?page=1
        
       | Mikeb85 wrote:
       | I'm a long term optimist. Humanity always gets better,
       | eventually.
       | 
       | The problem is we have short lifespans so small setbacks in
       | humanity's history are significant to those of us alive at that
       | point in time.
       | 
       | I don't think things will be too bad though. Governments are
       | becoming authoritarian but there's already enough resistance and
       | protest, at least in some places.
       | 
       | The future is looking bright. We'll figure out the global warming
       | thing (probably with technology), there's no appetite for large
       | scale war, in many ways the world is becoming closer (thanks to
       | technology). The main obstacle now is inequality, the tyranny of
       | oligarchs and government corruption.
        
         | acituan wrote:
         | > The problem is we have short lifespans so small setbacks in
         | humanity's history are significant to those of us alive at that
         | point in time.
         | 
         | It is still a reason to be optimistic. Limited individual
         | lifespan is like a regularization term; one particular human
         | can get only so much wise and world-improving; while our
         | optimization goal is multi-generational. Those setbacks might
         | as well be necessary backtracking.
        
       | specialist wrote:
       | I categorically approve of optimism.
       | 
       | Believing that we'll have a future worth fighting for is like
       | Pascal's Wager. If we're wrong, we won't be around to care. And
       | pessimism isn't very constructive. Or fun.
       | 
       | Missing from his list is improvements is _governance_. It 's so
       | weird that "technologists" rarely even think about collaborative
       | decision making. When in fact it's one of our most important
       | technologies.
       | 
       | To cite one recent exciting example. Project Warp Speed betting
       | on a portfolio of potential vaccines. Applying the smarts of NPV
       | towards policy goals. Whereas other nations pre-picked winners,
       | like most procurement is traditionally done.
       | 
       | Such a high visibility success will lead to wider adoption of
       | better risk management strategies.
       | 
       | Adjacent is Musk's $100m X-Prize bet for carbon capture. So
       | great. For future, some sizeable fraction of all R&D should be
       | done like this.
       | 
       | > _Optimism is not utopian. It's protopian -- a slow march toward
       | incremental betterment._
       | 
       | So much cringe. The jargon spewing technophilia of Mondo 2000,
       | Wired, Kevin Kelly, Jaron Lanier, so many others was tired in the
       | 1990s. (Remember "Tired vs Wired"? Gag.)
        
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