[HN Gopher] The time Pepsi got sued for a $33M fighter jet
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The time Pepsi got sued for a $33M fighter jet
        
       Author : Anon84
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2021-08-15 14:18 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thehustle.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thehustle.co)
        
       | neurobashing wrote:
       | The (IMHO wonderful) film Real Genius riffed on the real-world
       | examples of people trying to exploit corporate sweepstakes:
       | 
       | "When Lazlo Hollyfeld (Jon Gries) sends in a large number of
       | entries to the Frito-Lay contest, he is mirroring the actions of
       | Caltech students Steve Klein, Dave Novikoff and Barry Megdal,
       | who, in 1974, used a similar strategy to win a McDonald's
       | sweepstakes. Their entries came to roughly 1/5th of the total
       | entries and won them a station wagon, $3,000 cash and $1,500 in
       | food gift certificates."
       | 
       | "It said enter as often as you like, so I did."
        
         | jbluepolarbear wrote:
         | When I was in college, a local pizza place had an online
         | contest for "free pizza" for a year and said you could enter as
         | many times as you like. I wrote a quick python script to fill
         | out the form with my info that would submit it every 30 second.
         | I got a call from the pizza place a few days later asking me to
         | stop. They said that I was 90% of the entries and that I wasn't
         | acting in good faith. They offered me $100 gift card and I was
         | happy with that.
        
           | dheera wrote:
           | I did something at MIT where some place was offering free
           | personal pizzas (delivered!), and it seems their logic was
           | one pizza per /phone number/, that they would call upon
           | arrival with the pizza, so I went around campus and set up
           | several classroom phones (which nobody uses no receive calls
           | anyway) to forward calls to my dorm room's analog phone line,
           | which fortunately you could do just by dialing some codes on
           | the phone.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Seems like a reasonable solution there. Nice to see it
           | resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
        
           | griko wrote:
           | I did a similar thing back in college at [insert fast food
           | franchise name].
           | 
           | One branch I went had a poster that roughly says "enter our
           | mobile app survey and get a free meal", so I connect to their
           | public wifi, downloaded it, enter the survey, and got a text
           | message that can be exchanged on the cashier for some decent
           | fries and other stuff. Later I learned that the app limits
           | one submission per device per day, so few days later I start
           | bringing friends to submit on their phones and got ourselves
           | a free lunch. We did this once or twice a week so the manager
           | doesn't get suspicious.
           | 
           | Then one time I accidentally got disconnected to the wifi
           | after submitting, tried reopening the app and to my surprise,
           | it allowed me to submit again. I guessed that they limit
           | submission per IP address, so I tried reconnecting to the
           | wifi and the app limits me like before. Me being curious,
           | tried using a VPN and it didn't limit me both on wifi and
           | mobile data, so that means I can do four submissions per day
           | per device. Imagine how many meals I can get.
           | 
           | Few months later, the poster was removed, then later I
           | learned that it was also removed on every branch in the city.
           | The app just shows a blank white screen. Today I tried
           | downloading the app and it still shows nothing.
        
           | valec wrote:
           | > local pizza place you are an asshole. why would you do
           | that?
        
             | joshjdr wrote:
             | Im guessing free pizza.
             | 
             | The fact that they're local shouldn't matter in this case;
             | they offered it, and apparently were going to give it to
             | someone, so don't blame the kid for trying!
        
               | lamontcg wrote:
               | Reminds me of the Keybase "Space Drop"
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | The harrier costs $30 million, and the JSF costs "$80 million"
       | (plus $1.1 trillion development / jobs program / pork / bug
       | fixing)
       | 
       | Why didn't we just turn harriers into drones and build a lot of
       | them?
       | 
       | It seems like we should be building a lot of cheap and/or
       | pilotless aircraft.
       | 
       | edit: -4. I should refrain from posting unpopular opinions
       | because it triggers HN's rate limiter and prevents me from
       | posting the rest of the day. I just wrote a small essay I can't
       | post anymore.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | The US government certainly has fleets of pilotless drones,
         | both small and large.
        
         | KineticLensman wrote:
         | > Why didn't we just turn harriers into drones and build a lot
         | of them?
         | 
         | An aircraft whose basic design concept is more than 50 years
         | old isn't the best starting point for a modern drone capability
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | B-52s are a design that will turn 70 next year, with
           | individual airframes built 60 years ago still in active
           | service, and planned to continue in same beyond 2050, a
           | century of use.
           | 
           | Aeronautics hasn't changed all that much. Many of the
           | interesting parts can be readily swapped out. (A re-engining
           | of the B-52 was considered in the 1970s, but shelved on a
           | costs-benefit basis.)
           | 
           | A drone Harrier role might not make strategic sense, though
           | it could. Age alone has little to do with the question.
        
             | KineticLensman wrote:
             | > B-52s are a design that will turn 70 next year
             | 
             | Agree.
             | 
             | > A drone Harrier role might not make strategic sense
             | 
             | B-52s are still flying because they do actually fulfil a
             | military role, namely carrying vast amounts of stuff and
             | being suitably militarised. Harriers are relatively short
             | range, non-stealthy, fuel inefficient and sacrifice payload
             | for the VTOL capability. I can't see any way in which a
             | Harrier would make sense as the basis for a new drone, let
             | alone in a strategic sense.
             | 
             | [Edit] Updating old military things to new roles can be a
             | fantastic way to waste vast amounts of money before
             | cancelling the programme anyway. Exhibit A - the UK's
             | Nimrod programme (new engines on bespoke vintage
             | fuselages). Exhibit B. The UK Army's Warrior vehicle
             | upgrade (modern turrets on a 40-year old hull), cancelled
             | this year after running the 'capability sustainment
             | programme' for at least five years.
             | 
             | [Edit 2] The last time (1982) that the Harriers conducted
             | actual air combat as opposed to dropping bombs in a
             | permissive airspace was against Super Etendard (now 50
             | years old) and Mirage III (now 60 years old). There is no
             | evidence Harriers would last more than ten minutes if their
             | users didn't have total air supremacy.
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | Old aircraft do get turned into drones, for training and R&D
         | purposes though, not for combat.
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | I'm no miltary person, but would modifying an old plane to
           | fly without a pilot either as a autonominous plane or remote
           | piloted drone allow it to be come more dangerous than the
           | oringinal fitted out plane?
           | 
           | ie because there's no human inside so it should be able fly
           | tighter turns, also be a lighter aircraft
        
             | mschild wrote:
             | Depends on the plane, but it seems that most aircraft can
             | sustain about the same force as the people flying them. I'm
             | sure there are safety margins but an F-16 can sustain about
             | 9 G's [0]. A trained fighter pilot with an anti-G suite can
             | sustain around 9 G's as well [1]. The G-force capabilities
             | don't seem to have improved much since the F-16. The F-35
             | can also "only" do 9 G's [2].
             | 
             | This does make sense though. Whats the point of building an
             | aircraft that can withstand much higher G's if there is no
             | pilot that can ever fly it in such a manner. Plus it might
             | just become exponentially more expense to exceed this
             | limit.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-
             | Sheets/Display/Article/1045... [1]
             | https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/gravity-forces/ [2]
             | https://www.airforce.gov.au/technology/f-35a-specifications
        
               | FridayoLeary wrote:
               | I understand the Eurofighter can withstand forces well
               | above 9g. Maybe most jets aren't built to sustain forces
               | they will never encounter anyway.
        
       | ilovecaching wrote:
       | He wouldn't be able to afford the fuel (hovering burns a ton) let
       | alone the training, I'm assuming it's illegal to fly. I wonder
       | how hard it would be to sell a harrier? I believe I heard of one
       | retired military pilot buying one.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | > But as a Defense Department spokesman clarified, a fully
         | demilitarized jet probably wouldn't have been much fun, anyway.
         | 
         | > "Even if the lad were able to get the plane from Pepsi, it
         | would not be one he could fly," the official said at a Pentagon
         | briefing.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | samizdis wrote:
         | > I believe I heard of one retired military pilot buying one.
         | 
         | That would probably be this guy:
         | 
         | https://brobible.com/culture/article/badass-pilot-series-art...
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I would wonder more about maintenance and safety piloting for
         | what is an unusual fighter.
        
         | t0mas88 wrote:
         | Ex-military planes exist and can be flown. The fuel problem is
         | easily solved by setting up a business around it and selling
         | rides. This was done with several other jets.
         | 
         | Recently the FAA has been making this hard, by not allowing
         | passengers on planes that don't have a full certificate of
         | airworthyness.
        
           | kfprt wrote:
           | >Recently the FAA has been making this hard, by not allowing
           | passengers on planes that don't have a full certificate of
           | airworthyness.
           | 
           | After several crashes resulting in deaths.
        
       | hawkinsw wrote:
       | Pretty much a classic in every 1L law school class.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Marketing agencies keep underestimating the number of crazy
       | people out there that will not only crunch the numbers but
       | attempt to execute.
       | 
       | Like that guy that bought a pallet full of dessert to get
       | unlimited flight tickets
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | I remember seeing this commercial as a little kid and fully
       | believing this was a real thing that could happen and someone
       | could fly to school in a jet. I thought it'd be so cool if I
       | could win and do that someday.
       | 
       | I kind of miss being able to easily believe in something so
       | outrageous like that. Nowadays I approach most things with
       | extreme skepticism and a cynical opinion. The world has beaten me
       | down.
        
         | nickkell wrote:
         | Would buying some magic beans from me cheer you up?
        
       | billytetrud wrote:
       | The article says his suit was rejected because ads don't obligate
       | the advertiser to anything. That seems more or less false. False
       | advertising is explicitly against the law. I don't understand why
       | a ruling would be made implying that false advertising is ok. At
       | very least, it seems Pepsi should have been fined for that.
        
         | bagacrap wrote:
         | I think it would constitute fake advertising if they accepted
         | his money but failed to uphold their end of the bargain by
         | giving him a functional jet. It's not fake advertising if Ford
         | advertises a truck for $25k but then fails to sell one to you
         | because, for example, they ran out of chips and couldn't make
         | enough trucks.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > fake advertising if they accepted his money but failed to
           | uphold their end of the bargain by giving him a functional
           | jet.
           | 
           | no, the money was for the points, the points were for merch
           | selected from the catalog. Not giving him the points was
           | actually false advertising.
        
           | seoaeu wrote:
           | But it would be false advertising if Ford said you could buy
           | a truck for $5k, but told you they actually cost $25k when
           | you showed up to buy it
        
             | mypalmike wrote:
             | It's not entirely unusual for automobile models to be in
             | high enough demand that they are sold at higher than the
             | advertised price (MSRP).
        
             | Gene_Parmesan wrote:
             | Nah, not really. Automobile pricing is closer to
             | traditional K offer/acceptance laws. Additionally no car
             | dealer would advertise such a deal without including a
             | clause stating the price is subject to (usually many)
             | conditions and could change at any time.
             | 
             | False advertising is a rather narrow doctrine, one that by
             | necessity has to interact with standard contract law. Cases
             | where false advertising involves prices usually include
             | issues like hidden fees (telecoms signing you up for X a
             | month but then your bill includes Y fees that weren't
             | disclosed to you). More commonly, false advertising
             | concerns things like consumer deception - claims that
             | something is "clinically proven" when it actually isn't,
             | for instance.
             | 
             | In general, in contract law, if the changed price is
             | communicated to you before you have accepted the offer,
             | then there's no issue. There are literally hundreds of
             | years of precedent going back to the English common law
             | describing what does and does not constitute an offer and
             | what does and doesn't constitute acceptance of an offer.
        
               | tzs wrote:
               | If they don't actually have any $5k trucks but claim they
               | do in order to lure people in to try to sell them $25k
               | trucks that would be a bait and switch that would run
               | afoul of the law in several states. The FTC would
               | probably also have something to say.
        
         | acheron wrote:
         | "Mr. Simpson, this is the most blatant case of fraudulent
         | advertising since my suit against the movie, The Neverending
         | Story!" - https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Lionel_Hutz
        
         | bryan0 wrote:
         | > Leonard filed suit, claiming that Pepsi's ad had constituted
         | as a binding offer.
         | 
         | The article says the judge ruled it was not a binding offer for
         | 3 reasons: 1. Advertisements are generally not considered
         | offers in contract law. 2. The ad was obviously a joke. 3. An
         | enforceable contract requires both parties' signatures.
        
           | kolinko wrote:
           | Fun fact ad 3 - in some countries (Poland) there is a concept
           | in law of a public promise. If a corporation publicly
           | promises something (a competition usually), they are obliged
           | to act upon it, even if there were no signatures on the other
           | side.
        
             | jimnotgym wrote:
             | In England and Wales (Scotland has its own legal system)
             | there is very famous case law that says that an offer can
             | be made to the world at large (through an advert in this
             | case). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlill_v_Carbolic_S
             | moke_Bal...
             | 
             | Which may seem to apply, but this was an offer to add a
             | guarantee to the terms. Whereas merely advertising a price
             | is just an invitation for the buyer to make you an offer.
             | Here is an almost as famous case.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_Society_of_G
             | B...
             | 
             | I am not surprised our fellow common law jurisdictions like
             | the US reached the same conclusion.
             | 
             | The case law that makes up English civil law, especially
             | the early stuff is really fascinating stuff to me. IANAL
             | but understanding the contact law from these cases has won
             | me several disputes in my professional life.
        
             | garaetjjte wrote:
             | "Above advertisement does not constitute offer as meant by
             | the article 66 of Civil Code" :)
        
               | ptsneves wrote:
               | Written everywhere in otomoto. Lol never understood what
               | that pesky caveat was there for.
        
               | pythonaut_16 wrote:
               | The legal form of "but I had my fingers crossed so it
               | doesn't count"
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | _3. An enforceable contract requires both parties'
           | signatures._
           | 
           | This really doesn't jive with what I know about contract law,
           | so I checked the article, and it is more specific:
           | 
           |  _An enforceable contract requires both parties' signatures:
           | Under existing law, any contract for the sale of goods worth
           | $500+ must be evidenced by writing; Pepsi did not sign
           | anything._
           | 
           | Still, was Pepsi really _selling something for more than
           | $500_? It 's an exchange for Pepsi points (not cash), and
           | even though you can buy them, are they equivalent to cash?
           | Also, on top of that, has anyone signed anything the last
           | time they bought a $500+ laptop, PS5 bundle, unlocked cell
           | phone, etc.?
           | 
           | I know a contract has to meet all elements of a contact to
           | actually be a contract, so the other 2 reasons are enough,
           | but this 3rd reason seems out of place, given the situation
           | and even what I learned in my contact law class.
        
             | gamblor956 wrote:
             | If the ad was a contractual offer to sell a Harrier jet, it
             | would be generally governed by the UCC, not by basic
             | contract law.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > That seems more or less false. False advertising is
         | explicitly against the law.
         | 
         | That's not the point that was argued, though. An advertisement
         | doesn't oblige the advertise to engage in a specific
         | transaction with a customer.
         | 
         | This isn't uncommon. If you see a house advertised for sale at
         | $500,000, the owners aren't obligated to sell you the house for
         | $500,000 or even to sell the house at any price. An
         | advertisement alone isn't a legally binding offer to complete a
         | transaction.
         | 
         | False advertising also requires an intent to deceive or
         | mislead, or at least evidence that the advertiser behaved
         | recklessly in the advertisement. The advertisement is obviously
         | a joke and they wouldn't be able to find anyone to testify that
         | that PepsiCo actually thought they would be selling a Harrier
         | jet, so proving intent to mislead or reckless behavior would be
         | nearly impossible when the entire premise was a joke.
         | 
         | Regardless, I'm inclined to believe the judge who presided over
         | this case and did the work of reading through all of the legal
         | precedent.
        
           | gameswithgo wrote:
           | I mean, we can certainly believe the Judge applied the law
           | correctly, but also disagree that the law should be this way.
        
             | dvt wrote:
             | > I mean, we can certainly believe the Judge applied the
             | law correctly, but also disagree that the law should be
             | this way.
             | 
             | I'm not sure what issue you see with the law here. It seems
             | to both be written and applied quite well. The Pepsi ad
             | isn't really misleading or reckless, and obviously just a
             | bit of fun hyperbole.
        
             | torstenvl wrote:
             | No reasonable person can disagree with the legal principle
             | at issue. You are suggesting that if you place an ad on,
             | e.g., Facebook marketplace, you should be _legally
             | obligated_ to engage in the transaction with the first
             | person to accept your asking price. Your position is
             | indisputably absurd.
        
               | vanattab wrote:
               | To my mind the transaction was already halfway complete
               | though so it's not like someone advertising a house for
               | 500,000 and deciding not to sell when offered the
               | 500,000. It's more like a car dealership saying if you
               | buy 100 cars from use we will throw in a free house and
               | then after you buy the cars they say nevermind..
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | And government contractors often expend considerable time
               | and effort developing a bid pitch in response to a
               | solicitation. That doesn't mean they are entitled to the
               | contract. Your proposed contract law regime would break
               | the entire world.
               | 
               | Performance can be a method of accepting an offer and can
               | create a contract. However, it's still necessary for
               | there to _be an offer_ and not just a generic
               | solicitation.
        
               | ksaun wrote:
               | I don't think gameswithgo's post, as written, presents
               | any position on this specific judgment. (I read it as a
               | more general statement that one can agree with a legal
               | ruling while disagreeing with the underlying
               | law(s)/precedent.)
        
             | GavinMcG wrote:
             | You should read the opinion. Ruling otherwise would
             | essentially eliminate _obvious_ jokes from advertising, and
             | the opinion makes a good case for just how obvious the joke
             | was.
        
           | laurent92 wrote:
           | > This isn't uncommon. If you see a house advertised for sale
           | at $500,000, the owners aren't obligated to sell you the
           | house for $500,000 or even to sell the house at any price.
           | 
           | In France, they do. If someone shows up and offers the
           | advertised price, the deal is sealed as well. Even for $5m
           | that you don't have.
           | 
           | If they offer a lower price with conditions and the owner
           | says yes, it is also binding. It can be on a simple free
           | paper, and going through a notary is optional, even if
           | recommended. The only exception is that the purchaser has 10
           | days of legal withdrawal after signing the contract (only
           | EUR300 notary costs). The seller can't withdraw, unless
           | conditions were manually specified. I wasn't aware of that
           | when I made an offer by email, fortunately the landlord
           | explained me that I should list the exceptions/conditions in
           | my own interest...
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | It was rejected on multiple points, one of them being that
         | nobody reasonably would think a soft drink company was going to
         | give them a fighter jet.
         | 
         | I'm inclined to be more protective about false advertising and
         | all... but not the the point of absurdity where we demand they
         | provide someone a fighter jet... or $33m for $700,000 as
         | compensation.
         | 
         | Whatever we might feel about advertising, that result would be
         | absurd and solve nothing.
        
         | goodcanadian wrote:
         | From memory, my understanding is that it did not obligate Pepsi
         | because it was obviously* a joke.
         | 
         | *obvious to any reasonable person.
        
           | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
           | "Obvious to any reasonable person" is so vague. What happens
           | when Poe's law is reached? Half the people will scream
           | obvious while the other half scream obviously not! Also, the
           | reasonable person would have to be raised and steeped in the
           | culture. why would someone from another country, who doesn't
           | understand US norms, be considered unreasonable? Pepsi is a
           | large corporation that has been in posetion of USSR military
           | gear (vague because I don't exactly remember what atm). Why
           | wouldn't they be able to give a jet away? They are big
           | enough, have possessed similar items, and run contests all
           | the time. Seems legit to me (but I also haven't seen the ad).
        
             | lkbm wrote:
             | Here's the ad in case you're interested:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdackF2H7Qc
        
               | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
               | Thanks! Definitely Poe's law. They show what seem like
               | awards with point values and include a jet with a point
               | value. The jet landing at school seems like a joke, but
               | not the jet itself, IMHO. Sure it's an outlandish prize,
               | but they gave it a point value along with others. Maybe
               | the way the case was brought, it fell apart, but that's
               | gotta be false advertizing.
        
               | SkittyDog wrote:
               | I'd like to pose a serious question to you, which _might_
               | run the risk of offending you--so fair warning, there.
               | 
               | I understand the fact that _you_ believe your opinion is
               | reasonable... It sounds like you also understand that the
               | world broadly disagrees with you. A federal judge (Kimba
               | Wood, no less!) disagreed with you... Since there was no
               | appeal, I 'd gather that the guy couldn't find funds to
               | continue his suit--so his backers seem to have disagreed,
               | too.
               | 
               | Is there a reason why you're more willing to believe in
               | the idea that "All these people, including experienced
               | legal minds, must be wrong", rather than "My own layman's
               | intuition about the law must wrong"?
               | 
               | I'm asking because I genuinely don't understand why you'd
               | want to continue backing your POV in the face of evidence
               | to the contrary. I may have missed something, and I'm
               | curious what your thought process looks like.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | Further down in the article, it gives 3 reasons why the court
         | rejected it. One of which was reasonable characterization that
         | anyone would make that it was a joke.
        
           | mattmanser wrote:
           | The reasons, for those interested but not going to read it,
           | the final one seems a slam dunk too:
           | 
           |  _Advertisements are generally not considered offers in
           | contract law: "Ads for the sale of goods (TV, radio,
           | newspaper, newsletter)... are merely the requests to offer or
           | negotiate" and an advertiser must accept an offer from a
           | customer for it to be legally formed.
           | 
           | The ad was obviously a joke: An "ordinary, reasonable person"
           | would conclude that a soft drink company would not give away
           | a fighter plane as part of a promotion.
           | 
           | An enforceable contract requires both parties' signatures:
           | Under existing law, any contract for the sale of goods worth
           | $500+ must be evidenced by writing; Pepsi did not sign
           | anything._
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Here's the thing: did Pepsi come through on the other
             | things advertised in that commercial?
             | 
             | If they sent a leather jacket for 1450 points and a
             | mountain bike for 3500, then it seems to me that it is
             | against the public interest to allow a company to make such
             | offers and then rescind them arbitrarily.
             | 
             | That's why we get small print saying things like "screens
             | are simulated" and "not actual size" and "while supplies
             | last" or "at participating stores only" -- because without
             | those disclaimers, we should be able to rely on statements
             | about prices, promotions and availability.
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | > That's why we get small print saying things like
               | "screens are simulated" and "not actual size" and "while
               | supplies last" or "at participating stores only" --
               | because without those disclaimers, we should be able to
               | rely on statements about prices, promotions and
               | availability.
               | 
               | If they'd advertise a can for 99ct and make a can look
               | like 1l when it is in fact only 0.5l you could reasonably
               | say that one could've expected 1l cans - these cans exist
               | and this would not be out of the ordinary, even though a
               | bit cheaper than usual. If the can in the advertisement
               | would be the size of a truck, it would be hard to argue
               | that you really thought you would get that for 99ct.
               | 
               | If they offer something that is a) very rare, b) insanely
               | expensive and c) _not allowed to be owned by a private
               | person_ , I find it very hard to argue that one could
               | reasonably think this is an actual offer.
               | 
               | I agree with you that we should not give companies
               | endless leeway to deceive customers, but let's not
               | discard common sense.
        
         | ezekiel68 wrote:
         | I'm absolutely not picking on no one when I point out this
         | comment is yet another example of the hazards of applying
         | apparent common sense to matters of law. One doesn't get any
         | extra consideration from a judge for pointing out what seems
         | false.
         | 
         | Also, the article makes clear that plaintiff chose a legal
         | strategy closer to contract breach than false advertising.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | he lost on appeal and moved to alaska working in public
         | service. to me that is considered failure.
        
       | cycomanic wrote:
       | It's interesting and a sign of the failures of the justice system
       | that "the same judges" (not necessarily literally) rule >An
       | enforceable contract requires both parties' signatures: Under
       | existing law, any contract for the sale of goods worth $500+ must
       | be evidenced by writing; Pepsi did not sign anything.
       | 
       | While at the same time deem click through EULAs valid contracts.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | >at the same time deem click through EULAs valid contracts
         | 
         | Is this actually the case?
         | 
         | I'm not sure that it is...
         | 
         | Regardless the points made in the Pepsi case are quite
         | different than an EULA. That was only part of the reasons for
         | the decision in the Pepsi case.
        
           | SkittyDog wrote:
           | Some have, some haven't... Various US federal circuits are
           | currently in dispute, so there are some interpretations where
           | it's all legit, and others where it's not, or is limited...
           | Also, various states have drastically different statutory
           | laws that govern software sales & EULA enforceability.
           | 
           | ... Point is, the parent poster is correct... A significant
           | portion of legislatures & jurists believe EULAs to be valid
           | contracts. Not all, but plenty enough.
        
             | duxup wrote:
             | I think the other user has since edited their post so we
             | would be talking past each other.
             | 
             | When I responded there was nothing about what " A
             | significant portion of legislatures & jurists believe".
        
       | cesis wrote:
       | At one time Pepsi actually owned several USSR military vessels
       | 
       | https://www.businessinsider.com/how-pepsi-briefly-became-the...
        
         | generj wrote:
         | You have to wonder what the executives thought of this!
         | 
         | Sounds like an interesting documentary ready to happen.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | >You have to wonder what the executives thought of this!
           | 
           | Based on the time period, in the words of Rick James,
           | "cocaine is a helluva drug." If that was the actual reason,
           | it makes total sense. If that's not the reason, then what the
           | actual f were they doing?
        
             | monocasa wrote:
             | There wasn't a usable forex market for ruble to USD. At
             | that point you drop down to essentially bartering.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | There weren't many products in the Soviet Union that could
             | be sold in the west. They needed a commodity that was to
             | western standards. Soviet steel had full scrap value in the
             | west and the ships were mobile. Pepsi also traded for
             | tomato paste.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | They were sold for scrap. They were less military vessels than
         | large floating objects worth their weight in steel.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | They could have given him a Soviet warship instead:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo#Soviet_Union
        
       | 45ure wrote:
       | PepsiCo seemed to have lost their collective minds in the 90's in
       | their pursuit of fighting the Cola Wars, like it was some narco
       | gang territory. This episode seems tame in comparison to the
       | Pepsi Number Fever aka 349 incident, with a similarity to running
       | an ad campaign, and then strong arming or swatting away
       | claimants, as a cost of doing business.
       | 
       |  _Pepsi Number Fever, also known as the 349 incident,was a
       | promotion held by PepsiCo in the Philippines in 1992, which led
       | to riots and the deaths of at least five people_
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Number_Fever
       | 
       | https://www.phmurderstories.com/blog/pepsis-number-fever-199...
        
         | dwohnitmok wrote:
         | Reading the wiki article seems to indicate this is a different
         | issue though. It was a system bug that led to approximately 64
         | billion 2021 dollars erroneously being printed out as prizes in
         | a single day. This was never factored in as a cost of doing
         | business.
         | 
         | This wasn't the same thing as putting a prize in an ad that was
         | never meant to be redeemed since this was a bug to begin with.
         | The problem is that an advertising campaign that quintuples
         | your market share to a quarter of the soft drink market in a
         | matter of months must have tapped into an extremely strong set
         | of emotions and those will turn into an absolute fury if your
         | campaign backfires so spectacularly.
        
       | duckhelmet wrote:
       | 'the Harrier was a US Marine Corps aircraft used extensively in
       | the Gulf War. Capable of taking off vertically and carrying 10k
       | pounds of bombs, it had been called the "most captivating and the
       | most dangerous plane in the US military."'
       | 
       | From a British Design by Hawker Siddeley in the 1960s.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet
        
         | hyperbovine wrote:
         | This quote betrays a lack of understanding of the destructive
         | power of other planes in the US arsenal. Depending on when it
         | was uttered, the B52, B2, A10, AC130 and/or F22 all come to
         | mind as being way scarier.
        
           | jshier wrote:
           | In this case it's likely "dangerous" refers to the plane's
           | danger to the pilot, not the targets of its weapons. The
           | Harrier was notoriously unstable in its VTOL configuration,
           | as it was built before adoption of fly by wire systems that
           | could keep it stable automatically, like the F-35B does.
        
         | LaMarseillaise wrote:
         | > most dangerous plane in the US military.
         | 
         | Only for the pilot.
        
       | generj wrote:
       | Interesting story.
       | 
       | Kinda hard to feel bad for the would be jet owner. He knew it was
       | a joke but wanted to take advantage of the opportunity for
       | arbitrage anyways.
       | 
       | The more astounding aspect is that he was able to get investors
       | in on his scheme.
        
         | bagacrap wrote:
         | he didn't even need the investors' money given that he knew the
         | check would never be cashed.
        
           | SteveGerencser wrote:
           | But then he would have broken the law by passing a knowingly
           | bad check.
        
             | SkittyDog wrote:
             | Potentially, depending on the state... But in California
             | and many other states, its not actually a crime to simply
             | pass a check that you know will bounce. There's another
             | essential element of the crime: Intent to _defraud_ the
             | recipient of the check.
             | 
             | So if he felt confident in demonstrating that he had
             | financial backers who'd cover the $700k if Pepsi delivered
             | the airplane, then he might be able to beat the check fraud
             | charge. But yeah, it seems like a pretty dangerous gamble
             | to me.
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | I don't mind someone trying to arbitrage exactly one big
         | expensive thing.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | The sad thing is that his lawyers didn't inform him about
         | "Advertisements are generally not considered offers in contract
         | law", but still took his money.
        
           | DangitBobby wrote:
           | I wonder if it could ever be considered fraud to accept
           | payment for a case you know to be unwinnable, seeing as how
           | the client would have to be operating under the assumption
           | that the case is winnable.
        
             | MiddleEndian wrote:
             | He'd need to get some new lawyers to sue the original
             | lawyers! Lawyers all the way down...
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | _> he was able to get investors in on his scheme._
         | 
         | Small downside (legal fees, 1/7x), big upside (~50x return)
         | plus they knew Pepsi would return the check. That liquid was
         | available for other purposes. On the upside column, it probably
         | felt good to fund the cheeky bastard.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | What kind of psychopath puts so much effort into getting money by
       | abusing the legal system?
        
       | RickJWagner wrote:
       | Haha, reminds me of when Pepsi had the 6th largest military force
       | in the world.
       | 
       | True story, see below.
       | 
       | https://nickyoder.com/5-minute-history-pepsi/
        
       | andrewmackrodt wrote:
       | Something about the article is off. If purchasing a point costs
       | 10 cents and the jet requires 7 million points, his cheque would
       | need to be for $70,000,000, not $700,000.
        
         | turingexam wrote:
         | fyi think you mixed up dollars with cents
        
           | jsploit wrote:
           | Reminded me of this classic recording [0] of Verizon Customer
           | Service failing to understand the difference between cents
           | and dollars.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShv_74FNWU
        
       | ezekiel68 wrote:
       | I remembered that ad campaign and (more vaguely) the lawsuit the
       | moment I saw the headline here. Before I clicked the link I said
       | to myself, "Harrier jet, right?" This made me happy since I
       | sometimes indulge in fear regarding cognitive decline.
        
         | 55555 wrote:
         | You post this same comment every time this story resurfaces on
         | the front page. :|
        
           | speg wrote:
           | Are you suggesting he is indeed on the decline? :(
        
           | NieDzejkob wrote:
           | I can't seem to find any other instance of this comment.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-15 23:00 UTC)