[HN Gopher] More Is More: The End of Minimalism
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More Is More: The End of Minimalism
Author : pseudolus
Score : 39 points
Date : 2021-08-15 11:05 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thewalrus.ca)
(TXT) w3m dump (thewalrus.ca)
| friseurtermin wrote:
| > minimalism: Marie Kondo says that we should remove all the
| things that "don't spark joy"
|
| > maximalism: our homes should be places full of stuff that
| sparks joy!
|
| I'm no expert on interior design but that seems to be the same
| thing. Minimalism was co-opted by the very consumerism it
| initially criticized, with corporations telling us that we need
| more (white, square, lifeless) stuff. If your room only has a
| ornamental bed your inherited from your great-grandparents and a
| thrifted wardrobe in it, i would still consider that minimalist
| li2uR3ce wrote:
| TBH I never found the obsession over discovering if something
| brought joy to... spark joy. Once you realize that you'll
| eventually throw this out too... YOLO?
| raman162 wrote:
| I feel like this article misses the true point of minimalism.
| It's not about having monochromatic houses and boring designs
| (fine if that's what you're into). Minimalism is about avoiding
| excess junk that you don't need. You can still choose to have
| multi colored rooms and decor and be someone that adopts
| minimalism. I agree that our homes should be expression of
| ourselves but we shouldn't accumulate for the sake of
| accumulating.
| lucumo wrote:
| These are two different things. There's minimalism as a life
| philosophy, and there's minimalism as a design style. They go
| well together, but, as you point out, you can also have one
| without the other.
| chefandy wrote:
| I think you mean sparse or unadorned rather than boring- boring
| minimalist designs miss the point of minimalism. The idea is to
| create beauty using the form of the objects themselves and how
| they interact with their surroundings rather than adding purely
| decorative elements. A picture of open ocean or desert can be
| beautiful, entirely unadorned, and a picture of a carnival can
| be boring as hell. I'd certainly call Gottfried Bohm's
| Brutalist church sparse or unadorned in contrast to St. Basil's
| Cathedral, but I'd call it anything but boring. (Personally, I
| find them both breathtaking.)
|
| Same thing with minimalist lives, ideally!
| cpach wrote:
| Meden agan
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_(philosophy)
| pessimizer wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
|
| In the limit, moderation and maximalism are identical. Half of
| infinity is infinity.
| fumar wrote:
| This article would benefit from photographic examples. I prefer
| simple and understated interior architecture. My mind feels
| better without high clutter but that isn't to say I need
| minimalism. Again, without examples, I have a hard time
| visualizing both extremes.
| dougmwne wrote:
| Not totally sure this belongs on HN, but it was at least
| informative and well written. It's not at all about philosophy,
| but about design trends. I was sort of vaguely aware that
| Scandinavian simplicity was getting long in the tooth and that
| vintage, humorous, and eclectic was back in. I think it would be
| interesting to consider if we could end up seeing this reflected
| in UI and graphic design.
| whytaka wrote:
| Lots of website designs have featured this genre of "cluttered
| beauty" for many years already. Personally I hate it. It makes
| everything so difficult to read.
|
| IMO it's unlikely to be featured in interface design as I'm
| sure past the branding advantage, it's just bad for
| accessibility.
| lucumo wrote:
| Do you have any examples? I'm kind of interested in other web
| design styles than the Ikea-and-Apple kind.
| whytaka wrote:
| It might not be the best resource for the claim I made but
| you can check out awwwards.com.
| laurent92 wrote:
| First, there were Windows apps, with menus, entirely browseable
| by keyboard shortcuts for every menu, contextual help with F1
| everywhere, universal and automatic support for Tab, Esc,
| Enter, speech support, applications were complex and as you
| grew better at them, you could browse them faster than a clerk
| buying an airplane ticket on Amadeus (the ancient text
| interface where each keystroke is a complex command).
|
| Then we had apps and webapps. People loved them. They had no
| keyboard shortcuts, no menus, "tab" didn't lead anywhere,
| colors were not uniform, concepts neither, and "usability"
| meant "fewer functions". There was no way to write on your
| resume that you were expert at any of them. And they replaced
| each other fast.
|
| Let's hope we'll reinvent advanced user interfaces.
| villasv wrote:
| How can someone write an article like this and don't include a
| single picture of how maximalism looks like today?
| satellite2 wrote:
| It's much more green this time around. Plants are a must,
| escpecially succulents. Colors are green, gold and purple.
| Untreated wood is definitely not over but is associated with
| black iron.
|
| https://www.pinterest.com/pin/522558363009051596/
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| Maximalism looks like privately owned rockets to take people to
| the moon.
| lucumo wrote:
| Thie Harper's Bazaar article it references has three maximalist
| photos:
| https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/lifestyle_homes/a35...
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| https://hommes.studio/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/the-art-of-...
| villasv wrote:
| Thank you. Artiswitch vibes? I'd stay in a Hotel room like
| this, but definitely wouldn't live in it for long.
| lucumo wrote:
| That actually has a certain kind of charm. The patterns fit
| together well and the accents support the overall feel of the
| room.
|
| This can go awry very fast if done with less care, but then
| again, so can a minimalist room. Minimalist rooms can quickly
| start to look like a chipboard warehouse if no care is take
| to prevent it.
|
| Of course, it helps immensely that this room has no "life
| clutter" in it. Imagine adding a few discarded Amazon boxes
| waiting to be recycled...
| nynx wrote:
| That looks quite minimalist to me. Obviously, there's a lot
| of visual clutter from the wallpaper but aside from that,
| there aren't that many _things_.
| whytaka wrote:
| Interesting for a second but tiring just a moment after.
| After the appreciation for labour wears off it becomes
| suffocatingly garish.
| joshghent wrote:
| > maximalism may be more about filling in a void of loneliness
| and isolation
|
| This quote summarises the true intention - buying stuff makes you
| happy. We all get a kick out of this but that is not going to
| provide lasting happiness.
|
| As others have pointed out, minimalism isn't about the number of
| things you own. And in a way, if you're "minimalistic" you are
| also "materialistic" - truly caring about the things you own.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| The things I own enable me to enjoy long lasting and very
| fulfilling activities. I don't have any shame in that. Try
| riding mountain bikes without having a mountain bike, or taking
| off-road trips without a 4x4 or playing computer games without
| a graphics card. I enjoy and appreciate my stuff very much.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| you can research the best model of the things you use for
| those activities and get whatever the new best tech is, or
| you could go get a used one from someone and fix it up. You
| can get stuff and still minimize waste. Except for graphics
| cards, good luck, new or used...
| whytaka wrote:
| I care about materials as a minimalist in that I feel burdened
| by them.
|
| Today, I'm donating a bunch of clothes that still fit me but I
| don't wear them anymore. It doesn't even take up much space but
| I feel like I'm shedding weight.
| flir wrote:
| Surprising to see a recent article on maximalism that doesn't
| mention Boris Johnson's adventures in redecorating.
| [deleted]
| theonlybutlet wrote:
| Ummm no thanks, you can keep your anxiety-inducing clutter.
| haberman wrote:
| > Marie Kondo, the decluttering phenom who encouraged millions to
| "spark joy" by throwing out heaps of perfectly good things, was
| met with substantial ridicule when she began selling "essentials"
| like silicone head massagers and $61 paperweights on her website.
|
| I think this is a misquote of Marie Kondo. She says to get rid of
| things that _don 't_ spark joy. It's just permission and
| encouragement to part ways with things that you keep around but
| never use or enjoy.
|
| So the $61 paperweight isn't a contradiction at all, not if it's
| owner really likes it. Especially if it replaces two other things
| that they didn't really care about.
| nynx wrote:
| I know people who buy a lot of stuff that they don't need and
| doesn't make them happier. I'm not sure why people do that --
| probably a result of advertising.
| wincy wrote:
| I'm going insane because my kids are constantly getting toys.
| Not even from me and my wife, just people. My uncle, their
| grand uncle keeps coming over with literally moldy toys. He
| won't listen to me because he's dying of cancer and like, what
| am I gonna do? Tell him he can't see the kids he loves to
| dearly? He's a weird hoarder and I'm not gonna be able to
| change someone who is dying's mind about anything.
|
| I also just don't have the willpower to deal with their
| screaming and crying when I toss toys or donate them. Our
| youngest daughter is special needs in a wheelchair and can
| literally die if she gets too upset.
|
| Honestly writing this has made me resolve to fill some boxes
| and donate some stuff to Goodwill. I'll just have to do it at
| night when they're asleep or something. I wish I was as good a
| parent as I am an engineer.
| remirk wrote:
| > I wish I was as good a parent as I am an engineer.
|
| From the information in your comment you seem like a great
| parent to me. Or maybe you are just a good parent, but an
| exceptionally great engineer ;)
|
| You seem to be perfectly aware of things you need to take
| into consideration. And you have even come to a solution.
| Sometimes things are just hard, but that doesn't say anything
| about your parenting abilities.
| beardyw wrote:
| Here was me thinking minimalism was a school of art, visual,
| music, architecture etc. John Cage 4'33'' anyone? Turns out it
| has become a form of (non) consumerism.
|
| The good thing about minimalism is there is a nearby limit -
| zero. Not so with maximalism.
| bonoboTP wrote:
| Fad cycles like this will never go away. When a guest comes to
| visit and they are impressed by the interior, there are several
| things going on. First, you signal that you know what's the hot
| new thing, so you are socially connected, regularly visit similar
| homes. Second you signal loyalty to the tribe by being willing to
| adjust your living space to ape the hot new trend. Third, you
| signal financial stability/wealth because you can afford to keep
| up, to throw away functional stuff every few years.
|
| Just as predictable is the sneering and shaming of such behavior,
| decrying it as shallow etc. by people who can't keep up with
| this, or dislike the game. Then the most effective way to counter
| it is to make it about morality, to feel pride in not keeping up
| etc. But that won't solve anything, the fad may even temporarily
| follow that: see billionaires dressing in "normcore", rich people
| feeling kinda embarrassed by being seen rich. However there is
| still a big difference in Zuckerberg's normcore and the average
| person wearing cheap clothes. Just as there 8s a huge difference
| between a rich minimalist and a person whose apartment is almost
| empty because he can't afford to furnish it properly.
| nomdep wrote:
| Are you telling me that are people that live their adult life
| that they still were in high school? That's incredibly sad
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| > When a guest comes to visit and they are impressed by the
| interior, there are several things going on. First, you signal
| that you know what's the hot new thing, so you are socially
| connected, regularly visit similar homes. Second you signal
| loyalty to the tribe by being willing to adjust your living
| space (...)
|
| Or perhaps your guests just genuinely like the decor, and
| aren't playing some 4D Slytherin chess game. Some people just
| don't play the social signalling game.
| FredPret wrote:
| I agree with you, though I'd like to point out that merely
| liking the new style and also implementing it for non-
| sociopathic reasons is itself a social signal
| elevenoh wrote:
| "Fad cycles like this will never go away. When a guest comes to
| visit and they are impressed by the interior, there are several
| things going on. First, you signal that you know what's the hot
| new thing, so you are socially connected, regularly visit
| similar homes. Second you signal loyalty to the tribe by being
| willing to adjust your living space to ape the hot new trend.
| Third, you signal financial stability/wealth because you can
| afford to keep up, to throw away functional stuff every few
| years."
|
| Which cities is this most common/prominent in?
| lucumo wrote:
| There's also the desire to just see something new. Style is
| typically something that people like to change up every few
| years.
|
| There's individual differences of course. Some people will live
| their entire life in a house that never changes, and like it
| that way. Others get bored and restless or a feeling of being
| trapped if they don't change their surroundings every two
| years. Most people are somewhere in between.
|
| As for the sourpusses, I agree: they are predictable and
| boring. Unfortunately, also very prevalent on social media.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > Third, you signal financial stability/wealth because you can
| afford to keep up, to throw away functional stuff every few
| years.
|
| There are better signals of this than stuff in one's house. For
| example, the location and recent sale price of comparable
| homes, which is public information. Or one's source of income,
| hobbies, and travel.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| This is more fun if you pretend it's about CISC vs RISC.
| [deleted]
| hirako2000 wrote:
| Blablabla. More is certainly not more and this article
| demonstrates it very well.
|
| Get to the point, provide value, readers can get hold of millions
| of novels if they want to read descriptive storie, and with a
| well crafted plot coming from authors who work on stories.
| meowster wrote:
| The same could be said about many articles posted here.
|
| Personally I only read the first few paragraphs before closing
| the page.
|
| Anyway, I upvoted it because it offers something interesting
| which I was not aware of, and made me curious as to its change.
|
| (I didn't downvote you, but I assume it's because the comment
| doesn't really add anything. The complaint isn't that
| constructive, and is not aimed at the right people. I think
| most of the people here can figure out how to read which
| includes determining it they should continue reading something,
| and not fall into the sunk-cost fallacy of "I atarted reading
| this, so I _have_ to finish. ")
| srswtf123 wrote:
| This is an ad, meant to convince you to _buy more stuff, its ok
| everyone is doing it now!!_
|
| I call BS. Consumer culture is a cancer; best to excise it.
| pessimizer wrote:
| This is easy to say, but where will you be when my couch
| suddenly doesn't match the couches of the celebrities I admire?
| darkpine wrote:
| I agree. The article is practically an ode to consumerism. Much
| better to find the middle ground of making do with the things
| we already own, not throwing everything out a la minimalism, or
| buy buy buy a la maximalism so trumpeted here.
| notafraudster wrote:
| This is a bit of a strange critique. The publication is a long-
| form literary magazine, kind of like the Canadian Harper's.
| Neither of the writers is a brand person, they're both
| independent small scale writers, and if you check their past
| bylines none of them seem to overlap with the kind of thing
| you're talking about. No product is linked, this isn't like one
| of those GQ pieces where they want you to click through and buy
| the thing. Mostly it's sort of abstract and introspective,
| about processing feelings, and less about any kind of product.
|
| Let's say, hypothetically, that Big Consumer Culture wanted to
| Give You Permission To Buy Stuff, does it seem like this is the
| venue and manner they'd use to present this idea? The article
| discusses coverage of minimalist house makeovers as fueling the
| minimalism they think is in decline: wouldn't the people trying
| to push consumer culture use the same coverage of maximalist
| house makeovers more effectively than a small long-form essay
| in a Canadian literary magazine? Wouldn't they have a thing
| they want to sell? Wouldn't there be graphics or pictures or
| video engagement? Wouldn't it be attached to some kind of
| promotion?
|
| It's sort of hard to unpack the who, what, when, where, how of
| your pitch here.
| pessimizer wrote:
| I don't have any strong opinion on this, but the fact that
| you're arguing against the idea that all consumer culture got
| together and decided to exclusively advertise their new plan
| through this particular article is not an direct or
| productive reply.
| mx-e wrote:
| The point to real minimalism isn't throwing perfectly good stuff
| out, but not buying unnecessary stuff in the first place.
| Everything else is just a fad.
|
| So after throwing everything out, people now buy new stuff ?
| Great trick, great for the planet, slow clap!
| firecall wrote:
| For me, the minimalism aesthetic and the Marie Kongo school of
| chucking stuff out and not horsing are two different things!
|
| You can chick away half your things but your home could still
| look cluttered and 'terrible'.
| xondono wrote:
| Minimalism is a weird thing.
|
| Pretty much no one would consider my home minimalist, with my
| whole living room to the brim with lego and spaceship posters and
| plants and flowers, but I would buy them a new if they weren't
| there, and there's not a single thing in there that doesn't make
| me feel better.
|
| Like most things in life, "minimalist" it's just a tag, a label
| because people like to form tribes.
| whytaka wrote:
| I wouldn't discount it as a mindset. I am a minimalist despite
| having decorations in my home. And if I'm part of a tribe, I'm
| pretty sure I've been excommunicated because I don't make
| friends over this stuff.
|
| What I do do tho is just keep things tidy. Dispose or donate
| things I don't need anymore. Limit my material purchases to art
| I appreciate all the time and tools I use all the time. I just
| feel cleaner spiritually for it.
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