[HN Gopher] Impact of Pocket Listings on Housing
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       Impact of Pocket Listings on Housing
        
       Author : caseyf7
       Score  : 14 points
       Date   : 2021-08-14 16:49 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pbs.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pbs.org)
        
       | kevinpet wrote:
       | I don't know what's really going on, but I know this article is
       | trying to mislead the reader. The headline is about pocket
       | listings, but the only numbers mentioned related to that are
       | 
       | > The number of homes that have likely sold without being
       | marketed to the public has grown by 67 percent since November
       | 2019, when the NAR adopted its stricter rules, according to a
       | Redfin analysis tracking MLS listings that were marked "sold" or
       | "pending" the same day they were put on the database.
       | 
       | Was it 1% of homes and now it's 1.7%? The article is leading us
       | to believe this is a large gain, but doesn't present any evidence
       | showing that. "67%" is a suspicious number as well, as if someone
       | said "about two-thirds" and it got translated back to a precise
       | percent.
        
         | mikem170 wrote:
         | The "grown by 67 percent" phrase in the main article links to
         | another redfin article with the specific figures.
        
         | mzs wrote:
         | "grew so prevalent in some parts of the country"
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | also, the problem isn't pocket listings per se, but artificial
         | demand induced by the rise-at-all-costs policies of (state and
         | federal) governments and the cartel-like action of the MLS's,
         | combined with long-lasting political pressure to limit housing
         | growth. pocket listings are a tiny additional complication,
         | like a bruise next to a bullet wound. it's nothing next to the
         | real problems we face around real estate and housing.
        
       | mdavis6890 wrote:
       | It is the job and responsibility of the listing agent to serve
       | their client's interests. Assuming that sellers know this is
       | happening, and further assuming that this practice of pocket
       | listings serves them, I wonder HOW it does.
        
       | joezydeco wrote:
       | _" They grew so prevalent in some parts of the country that the
       | National Association of Realtors (NAR) passed a policy against
       | the practice in 2019, requiring brokers to list any property that
       | they are marketing to potential buyers on the multiple listing
       | service, or MLS"_
       | 
       | Right. So the realtors instead created a _second_ listing network
       | to  "draft" listings before putting them on the MLS. What a tidy
       | little loophole.
       | 
       | https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/2021/04/05/mred-launches-re...
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | The realtor market is already a cabal-like gang so it's not
         | surprising they'd do that. You can't really stop things like
         | this without actual laws and penalties as people can just not
         | "list".
         | 
         | In an era of internet access to the MLS they need to provide
         | value - apparently by creating a secret secondary market.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | There's no need for laws here. If I want to sell my old bike
           | to a friend I'm not required to post it on Craigslist first.
           | Real estate is no different.
        
             | joezydeco wrote:
             | However, if there's someone across town that wants the bike
             | and is willing to pay more, two parties have lost out
             | including yourself. You've left money on the table.
             | 
             | Back to the original problem, realtors don't care about
             | this because at 5% commission if the price is $400,000 or
             | $420,000 the difference is miniscule. It's prioritizing
             | velocity over price.
        
       | udev wrote:
       | Genuine question: why would a rational seller accept to sell
       | before listing the house on the market (MLS) to a widest possible
       | audience?
        
         | beerandt wrote:
         | Because you can only sell the house once. So given an
         | appropriate asking price, the first acceptable offer is as good
         | as the next 10. (If your realtor is any good, the price will be
         | close to the true market value anyway, or priced appropriately
         | considering trade-offs, like closing quickly.)
         | 
         | If you can get that offer without the hassle of showing the
         | house to a thousand strangers, and having random people
         | stopping and peeping through your window, then why not?
         | 
         | Another common occurrence is accepting an offer below certain
         | known loan limits. If you know you want to get approx the local
         | limit for a jumbo loan, then accepting a price slightly over
         | that limit comes at the cost of fewer potential buyers, or
         | offers that have to back out because they couldn't get
         | financing approved. So the rational choice might be accepting
         | the lower offer, instead of slightly higher with more
         | hassle/risk.
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | Yes, this happens in SF. Some people inherited or built their
         | house, owe nothing on it, and want to sell it onward to another
         | family (not an investor, REIT, etc). One of our friends bought
         | a house this way - off market.
         | 
         | Some people also don't do offer dates so they accept the first
         | good offer that comes along - we just bought a house in SF this
         | way for 50k over asking. The sellers were moving across the
         | country, had lots of equity, so their concern was getting the
         | sale wrapped up ASAP.
         | 
         | FWIW our realtor was also going to show us an off-market
         | property from a friend who renovated houses. This friend is
         | self-funded so his concern is getting a good return even before
         | the reno is complete so he can buy the next fixer-upper. I
         | assume this is because he can't control when those houses come
         | up for sale so he needs to buy them when they're available.
         | That can present cash flow and financing problems for a small
         | operator.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Some rational sellers are willing to accept a slightly lower
         | price in order to close quickly and avoid the hassle of open
         | houses.
        
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