[HN Gopher] M 7.2 Earthquake 12 km NE of Saint-Louis du Sud, Haiti
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M 7.2 Earthquake 12 km NE of Saint-Louis du Sud, Haiti
Author : chmaynard
Score : 154 points
Date : 2021-08-14 13:10 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (earthquake.usgs.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (earthquake.usgs.gov)
| aaron695 wrote:
| This person walking down the street sees multiple buildings
| effected -
|
| https://twitter.com/Haitianaute/status/1426536384127541248
|
| The tweet says it's Les Cayes (Wiki pop: 71,236) where the
| earthquake hit.
| tr33house wrote:
| Haiti never seems to get a break
| sethammons wrote:
| Hard when large political forces want to keep you down.
| Evidence suggests the US State Department prevented pay raises
| to textile workers in Haiti.
|
| https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/apr/21/lee-camp/d...
| drran wrote:
| Did you read what you post? I cannot find "prevented pay
| raises to textile workers" in the text. I see text about
| "minimum wage increase", i.e. tax increase.
| jwilber wrote:
| Ignoring your weird tax increase comment, here's what OP
| mentioned:
|
| " The two media outlets assessed the cables and found,
| among many other revelations, that the "U.S. Embassy in
| Haiti worked closely with factory owners contracted by
| Levi's, Hanes, and Fruit of the Loom to aggressively block
| a paltry minimum wage increase" for workers in apparel
| factories."
|
| This is just awful all around. Between state actions and
| nature, Haiti never can seem to catch a break.
| partsKnown wrote:
| Found the state actor :)
| knownjorbist wrote:
| The solution is easy: make immigration easier.
| partsKnown wrote:
| That's the rub. We want to "help" just not like that. Lol.
|
| Not in my backyard, right.
| abhiminator wrote:
| Haiti and the surrounding regions are tectonically f'cked,
| unfortunately.
|
| At least the United States is relatively close by, so
| humanitarian assistance isn't super far away. I remember the US
| deploying its hospital ships, among other resources, to assist
| Haiti in the aftermath of the 2010 quake, under operation
| 'Unified Response.' [0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unified_Response
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The problems go deeper than geology, unfortunately.
|
| (Figuratively/literally.)
| detritus wrote:
| . o O ( How do they go literally deeper than geology? )
| queuebert wrote:
| The wormhole to the gamma quadrant exits near Haiti.
| wes-k wrote:
| I've got some self-sealing stem bolts that may help.
| tamaharbor wrote:
| They can get rid of that horrible name.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Haiti gets big earthquakes quite rarely:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_Haiti
|
| Before the 2010 disaster, Port-au-Prince had not been hit
| since 1770.
| Retric wrote:
| Normally big earthquakes are extremely rare. In just the
| last 300 years Port-au-Prince got an 8.0, 7.5, and 7.0
| that's very rapid especially in geologic terms.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Let's hope that relief workers are quarantined this time.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_Haiti_cholera_outbreak
| eplanit wrote:
| earthquake..."get a break". Yeah, I see what you did there.
| gruez wrote:
| The last earthquake was in 2010. 11 years seems is arguably a
| break.
| huitzitziltzin wrote:
| I am going to guess you don't know much about Haiti because
| if you do that is an exceptionally heartless comment.
| queuebert wrote:
| Let's hope the deleted comments mean the poster has grown
| as a human today.
| gruez wrote:
| I fail to see how it's "exceptionally heartless comment".
| I'm simply stating that the last earthquake was over a
| decade ago. You seem to think that by saying that (or the
| part about it being a "break"), I imply that they deserve
| it or whatever. But that's not the intent.
| GavinMcG wrote:
| No, it was your assumption that earthquakes are the only
| thing that Haiti needs a break from.
| polack wrote:
| It makes more sense that OP meant the expression "get a
| break/catch a break" as in "get lucky" and not just as an
| litteral break/pause from earthquakes. Considering the
| state of Haiti I think many people will interpret your
| comment as heartless, even though thats not how you meant
| it.
| bart_spoon wrote:
| It was an earthquake that killed over 200,000 people. And
| it's more than just earthquakes. It's incredible poverty,
| hurricanes, and political instability, including the fact
| that their president was murdered in his home by foreign
| mercenaries a few weeks back.
| lmilcin wrote:
| Losing everything you own every 11 years may not be such a
| huge deal to you, but don't you think it might be to other
| people?
| gruez wrote:
| >but don't you think it might be to other people?
|
| While an earthquake always sucks, 11 years between
| earthquakes seems be enough of a "break" that it's not like
| two natural disasters hitting back to back.
| lmilcin wrote:
| Maybe if you have funds to rebuild. If you are Haiti, it
| takes forever to come back after every blow.
| k2enemy wrote:
| This might be the one time when misspelling "losing" is
| appropriate.
| lmilcin wrote:
| Should I correct it or leave as it is? I will correct it
| but leave this comment so that everybody knows:)
|
| I am not native English speaker.
| tonypace wrote:
| Your original is better, he is just emphasizing the loss
| in modern internet English slang.
| lmilcin wrote:
| It never is going to get it. The only way to "get a break" in
| their situation is to have infrastructure resistant to it.
|
| As it is, Haiti population is barely aiming at having _a_
| shelter. Shelter that can additionally survive powerful
| earthquake is a luxury right now.
| pasquinelli wrote:
| that state of affairs is the product of haiti never getting a
| break.
| lmilcin wrote:
| This is simplistic thinking.
|
| Japan is also subject to powerful earthquakes and tsunamis
| and was pretty poor after WW2 (for this discussion it is
| not important who caused it).
|
| I think it is fair to say that the natural disasters add to
| the problems but are not sole cause if it.
| tptacek wrote:
| The comment you're replying to agrees with you.
| lmilcin wrote:
| He may think so, but it is one thing to agree that the
| disasters are making it hard for Haiti to grow and
| another to blame disasters as the sole reason for the
| current situation.
|
| For me at least there is an important distinction.
|
| I will give you an example.
|
| There are children who had really tough childhood. Being
| extremely poor, having abusive parents, having
| misfortune, so on. Not their fault.
|
| Some of them grow to be criminals but a lot of them grow
| to be good people.
|
| "It is one thing to to agree that the childhood abuse
| made it hard for this kid to grow up to be a good man,
| and another to think it is the sole reason for his
| current situation."
| tptacek wrote:
| The comment you're replying to didn't imply that
| disasters are the sole reason for the current situation.
| whydoibother wrote:
| Poor comparison. The US isn't dumping tons of money into
| Haiti for infrastructure like they did with Japan post
| WW2.
| waynecochran wrote:
| Also 6.9 in Alaska
|
| https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/ak021adyci...
| troydavis wrote:
| This video has a good introduction to the 4 tectonic plates
| affecting Hispaniola:
| https://www.iris.edu/hq/inclass/animation/hispaniola_earthqu...
|
| Or on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRpekYp3fU
| partsKnown wrote:
| Lol, cheese it bros.
| [deleted]
| r721 wrote:
| This guy seems to be in Les Cayes, Haiti - many photos/videos:
| https://twitter.com/HBeaucejour
| sneak wrote:
| Content warning: recently killed children being pulled from
| rubble. Seriously heartbreaking stuff. :(
| aaron695 wrote:
| I think the little girl pulled from the rubble off the roof
| was alive.
| 5faulker wrote:
| Good catch (literally).
| javajosh wrote:
| Does anyone understand _why_ Haiti is in such bad shape, and
| continues to be in such bad shape, year after year, disaster
| after disaster?
|
| It sounds (and feels) harsh, but until that question is answered,
| what's the point of sending aid?
| [deleted]
| Clewza313 wrote:
| Interesting article and discussion about that here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27916733
|
| Although the article carefully avoids any mention of race as a
| factor, and comments mentioning this even in the mildest terms
| ("maybe it's hard for Haiti to get investment when they don't
| have any potential investors who look like them and speak the
| same language?") were promptly flagged.
| javajosh wrote:
| Some good content in that link from people who've lived
| there. It makes sense to me that the problem is fundamental
| and cultural, and not racial. The thread implies that there's
| a thick strand of anti-science, anti-outsider bias that
| prevents even the most basic improvements to...anything. And
| the effect is so overwhelming that those who come to know
| better (e.g. the Haitian geeks), just leave.
|
| An incredible tragedy, but there are some good lessons here.
| In particular, that _you should accept value from anywhere,
| including your enemies_. Call it the "von Braun ethos". The
| brutality of Euro slave holders is appalling, shocking,
| horrific. But to use this as an excuse to ignore the lessons
| of Euro science is an extraordinary case of cutting your nose
| off to spite your face.
|
| So extremely sad.
| tptacek wrote:
| The point of sending aid is that many thousands of innocent
| people will die without it.
|
| We are asked, daily, by the moderators of this site not to
| invite and participate in nationalistic flame wars.
| mynameishere wrote:
| Every single possible reason you could possibly imagine but the
| real one.
| joshcrews wrote:
| St. Domingue (now Haiti) was France's wealthiest overseas
| possession in 1790. It was a human meat-grinder as slave life
| expectancy was low from being worked and whipped to death on
| the plantations. The slaves rebelled, fought the French and
| won. But then France was her enemy and tried to extract any
| remaining wealth in Haiti as "repayment" for their lost
| plantations. That set Haiti back really bad in development
| deficits that are still very present.
| Vaskerville wrote:
| Very corrupt political and wealthy class for starters. If you
| want to do some research look into the Petrocaribe scandal and
| the recent assassination of the president. I lived there for
| five years (until 2019) and everything got a little more worse
| month after month. By the end, we were lucky if we had 10 hours
| of grid power in a typical week (when we arrived we had
| consistently 14 hours per day).
| belltaco wrote:
| >Haiti was the richest and most productive European colony in
| the world going into the 1800s.[1][2] Haiti's legacy of debt
| began shortly after a widespread slave revolt against the
| French, with Haitians gaining their independence from France in
| 1804. President of the United States Thomas Jefferson - fearing
| that slaves gaining their independence would spread to the
| United States - stopped sending aid that began under his
| predecessor John Adams and pursued international isolation of
| Haiti during his tenure.[3] France had also pursued a policy
| that prevented Haiti from participating in trade in the
| Atlantic.[2] This isolation on the international stage made
| Haiti desperate for economic relief.[4]
|
| >France, with warships at the ready, sailed to Haiti in 1825
| and demanded Haiti to compensate France for its loss of slaves
| and its slave colony.[5][6] In exchange for French recognition
| of Haiti as a sovereign republic, France demanded payment of
| 150 million francs.[5] In addition to the payment, France
| required that Haiti provide a fifty percent discount on its
| exported goods to them, making repayment more difficult.[4] In
| 1838, France agreed to reduce the debt to 90 million francs to
| be paid over a period of 30 years to compensate former
| plantation owners who had lost their property; the 2004
| equivalent of US$21 billion.[5][4][7] Historians have traced
| loan documents from the time of the 1825 Ordinance, through the
| various refinancing efforts, to the final remittance to
| National City Bank (now Citibank) in 1947.[2]
|
| Founding fathers btw.
| themgt wrote:
| The problem with explanations for Haiti's poverty that use
| events from the 1800s is that Haiti had a GDP per capita as
| high as South Korea until the mid-1960s, and as high as
| China's until the mid-1970s. Even as high as Vietnam until
| 2010 - I visited Vietnam in 2010 and it was quite poor but
| overall quality of life seemed relatively decent considering
| and you could see signs of development and progress.
| Vietnam's GDP per capita has more than doubled since then.
|
| It's odd how Haiti had the same GDP per capita as now up-and-
| coming Vietnam just 10 years ago and yet most of the
| explanations for why Haiti's a hopeless basket case are
| citing events in the 1800s.
|
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=haiti%2C+china%2C+sout.
| ..
| BoiledCabbage wrote:
| South East Asia became a key geo-polotical theater in the
| Cold-War right around that time. Hence two different
| East/West wars (Korea, Vietnam). US strategically became
| strong ally/supporter of S Korea and enormous growth in
| US/Korea trade policy, particularly textiles, dramatically
| grew S Korean economy.
|
| 1800s is a long time ago, but it's consequences continued
| long after. Debts were still being paid until almost 1950.
| It's easy to underestimate debt impact. US Debt to GD
| ratio, is about 100% and there is a lot of concern on long
| term US economic health. Venezuela is essentially a failing
| economy and is at 350%. France came and instituted a debt
| of 300% debt to GDP as reparations for slaveowners. That's
| essentially Venezuela territory.
|
| What happened to Haiti between 1950s to 2010 was the
| Duvalier family who came to power on a movement that grew
| out of the US occupation of Haiti in the first half of the
| 1900s. Not the same, but similar to Castro coming to Cuba
| post US actions there, and Iran post US propping up the
| Shah of Iran, US occupation created a groundswell against.
| It took a bit more time, but it eventually enabled the
| Duvalier family dynasty. And they were horribly corrupt,
| but they rode the wave.
|
| Haiti finally got rid of them and things started to look
| better. So why has it diverged from Vietnam since 2010? An
| enormous earthquake hit in 2010 and devastated the country.
| 3% of the population was killed. 15% of the population had
| their homes destroyed.
| vore wrote:
| What is the significance of having a high GDP per capita?
| GDP is a metric of economic output, it is unwise to
| extrapolate it so far -- after all, Syria has a GDP 2x that
| of Haiti.
| koheripbal wrote:
| This is such misinformation.
|
| Haiti was isolated after the revolt because the
| revolutionaries committed genocide against any and all
| whites.
|
| Genocide. Children, women - entire families were methodically
| slaughtered.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacre
|
| ...and yet here you are using your misinformation to promote
| your own anti-US agenda. Shameful.
| jorblumesea wrote:
| This is a simplistic take. Haiti has been buffeted by serious
| internal political forces which have negatively effected its
| growth trajectory and stopped it from having a viable
| economy.
|
| To blame it purely on France enforcing the debt is missing a
| fair amount of Haitian politics. It's not it wasn't a factor
| but it's way more complicated than just France bleeding Haiti
| dry.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Haiti#Political_str.
| ..
| trainsplanes wrote:
| > President of the United States Thomas Jefferson - fearing
| that slaves gaining their independence would spread to the
| United States - stopped sending aid that began under his
| predecessor John Adams and pursued international isolation of
| Haiti during his tenure.[3]
|
| This skips over the context of why people absolutely feared
| the idea of slaves gaining freedom after the Haitian
| Revolution.
|
| The reason for that was the genocide carried out against non-
| black Haitians. [1] Even those people who actively opposed
| slavery, including children, were murdered. Americans feared
| that if slaves were freed, they'd all be raped and murdered
| as well
|
| I'm not here to justify slavery or anything. But people 200
| years ago didn't consider all races equal, and they were
| especially put off by the events that transpired in Haiti and
| wanted to actively prevent anything similar from happening in
| their own hometown.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre
| BoiledCabbage wrote:
| To be clear, this was a horrible event - but frequently
| like here it leaves out any other events during the period.
|
| Killing 2000 whites at once is horrible. It came the end of
| a fight for independence / freedom from slavery that had
| been killing on average 10,000 blacks per year for 100
| years. Over 1 million blacks died in Haiti during slavery.
|
| Killing does not justify killing, but at the same time
| 2,000 in the context of 1 million is something different.
| And yes those 1 million included women and children as
| well.
|
| This was not peaceful treatment:
|
| > Torture of slaves was routine; they were whipped, burned,
| buried alive, restrained and allowed to be bitten by swarms
| of insects, mutilated, raped, and had limbs amputated.
|
| The life expectancy of an enslaved person was 3 years. Yes
| that level of absurd. It's almost unfathomable.
|
| And during that same war Napoleon's armies were also
| committing massacres - and the thing that stopped them from
| elevating to genocide was that they kept losing
| battles/territory. Ie one army succeeded at what the other
| failed at.
|
| What happened in Haiti and the major powers treatment of
| the colony was disgusting and severely understudied/unknown
| by most people.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> Killing does not justify killing,
|
| I think the rest of your lengthy post refutes that. Or
| maybe it means "but we understand why they did it."
| BoiledCabbage wrote:
| Nope, not that. It means history does not happen in a
| vacuum.
|
| But I don't want this to devolve into an internet
| argument, especially not on this topic, and I feel it tip
| toeing towards that line - so I'll gracefully end my
| replies here. Cheers.
| tshaddox wrote:
| That certainly doesn't justify slavery, and also doesn't
| really provide any useful context in my opinion. There
| isn't a big difference between "they didn't want their
| slaves to gain freedom" and "they didn't want their slaves
| to gain freedom and be angry at their former masters."
| sunsetSamurai wrote:
| Yep, a few years later Haiti invaded my country and did the
| same thing, some towns still tell the stories of the
| massacres hatians committed in DR, they closed down schools
| and universities, killed blacks, whites and mulattos, by
| the time we got rid of them our economy was in shambles and
| the population was about a third of the population when
| they invated DR, I think this is the single event that has
| caused the most damage to my country ever.
|
| And let's not forget for those 2 decades we also payed
| Haiti's dept to France, something we had nothing to do
| with.
|
| Haitians love to bring up slavery and their treatment by
| France and USA as the only and main cause of why they're so
| poor, but the elephant in the room is how corrupted Haitian
| politicians and business people are, in the 1950s DR and
| Haiti had about the same GDP, and now DR is about 10 times
| richer. Corruption is the main cause of why Haiti is so
| poor nowadays, I should know, my own country is full of it.
| For some reason they never bring up Papa Duc and Baby Duc
| and all the other dictators and corrupt presidents they've
| had in recent decades.
|
| I really hope some day Haiti can get their shit together
| and start to develop their country, that'll be the best for
| everybody on the Hispaniola island.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> The reason for that was the genocide carried out against
| non-black Haitians.
|
| That seems over the top to call a slave revolt genocide
| against the opressing group.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| The Poles who switched sides and fought with the Haitians
| seem to get ignored for some reason.
| koheripbal wrote:
| They systematically murdered every last white person in
| Haiti - whether they were involved with the French or
| not. Women and children included.
|
| It was very literally genocide. There's no other word for
| it.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre#Massacr
| e
| whydoibother wrote:
| Or its called expelling invaders and slavers from your
| country.
|
| And no, it literally isn't genocide. They weren't
| eradicating the French as a whole. They were removing the
| ones that decided to colonize and enslave them.
|
| By your definition, any targeted mass killing would be
| genocide, which isn't true at all and dilutes the word.
| sprafa wrote:
| Where is this from! Wikipedia? Want to read more
| jostylr wrote:
| I read about some of the history of Haiti on the Digital
| Antiquarian: https://www.filfre.net/2018/09/shades-of-gray/
|
| It is interwoven with describing an interactive fiction
| game, so not every word on there represents reality, but
| there are sources. I found it riveting when I first read
| it.
| vvanders wrote:
| https://www.theroot.com/as-haiti-burns-never-forget-white-
| pe... covers it in some more detail.
|
| Like the article says it sounds unreal and almost to
| suspend disbelief, however if you independently look up the
| major events outlined they pencil out.
| wutwutwutwut wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
|
| You can find the source of a text just by picking a random
| sentence from it, put it in quotes and google for it.
| fidesomnes wrote:
| He skipped the part of murdering every white, half white,
| and quarter white, on the entire island.
| eplanit wrote:
| They're now aligned to be the stage for a proxy war between the
| US and China, as Haiti is now involved with Taiwan. Their
| future isn't looking any brighter, unfortunately.
|
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/07/09/haiti-assass...
| eat_veggies wrote:
| There is an excellent documentary called _Fatal Assistance_ ,
| directed by Raoul Peck, which shows how foreign aid and the
| nonprofit/NGO industrial complex have not helped Haiti. The
| money often comes with strings attached, and the "experts"
| think they know better than locals about what Haiti needs, so
| they build projects that are useless at best, and actively
| dangerous at worst. The UN was even found spilling untreated
| sewage into the environment, contributing to a cholera outbreak
| that killed thousands of Haitians [1]. The point of aid is not
| to help, but to keep Haiti dependent and poor.
|
| As other commenters pointed out, the reason for this is that
| Haiti was an immensely profitable (and terrifyingly
| exploitative) slave plantation, and they dared to rebel against
| their Western colonial oppressors -- and win. They've been
| punished for it ever since.
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/05/leaked-un-
| repo...
| kleinsch wrote:
| It's one of the poorest countries in the world, probably bc
| they had to pay debts for slave plantations for 100 years -
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
|
| It also sits in both earthquake and hurricane areas, so
| frequently has disasters and then no money to recover.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| France seems to have been attempting an honest reckoning with
| its past, recently. Returning the present value of those
| debts to Haiti would bring tangibility to that effort.
| dmix wrote:
| Saint-Louis-du-Sud is a town with a population of 59,042.
|
| Google maps has a nice graphic of the location:
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@18.4261432,-78.3643549,6z/data=...
| aaron695 wrote:
| Tsunami of some sort seems to be happening/happened.
|
| https://twitter.com/igandean/status/1426559157868666886/vide...
|
| Receding ocean -
|
| https://twitter.com/Algeria_News_DZ/status/14265548742930636...
|
| Warning seems lifted -
| https://www.tsunami.gov/?p=PHEB/2021/08/14/21226002/3/WECA41
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(page generated 2021-08-14 23:01 UTC)