[HN Gopher] How Watches Work
___________________________________________________________________
How Watches Work
Author : nstricevic
Score : 192 points
Date : 2021-08-09 11:37 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.fratellowatches.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.fratellowatches.com)
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| Gerald Sussman[0] (of SICP fame) gave an interesting talk[1] on
| mechanical watches awhile back.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Jay_Sussman [1]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQN8Yf1g70
| desine wrote:
| Whoa he has hair. This must be early career.
| bartschuijt wrote:
| Also I can recommend taking a look at Seiko's spring drive
| technology. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoEorK6elZM
| cjlars wrote:
| Spring drive's are cool. I'll try my best fast explanation: it
| has an ordinary rotor and spring barrel, but replaces the
| escapement with a flywheel, an electromagnetic break (like you
| have on an ebike) and a quartz controller. The rotor winds the
| spring barrel, the spring barrel powers the flywheel, and the
| break generates electricity for the controller, which keeps
| track of the time and then in turn tells the break how fast to
| allow the flywheel to spin.
|
| The fact that they sidestep the need for a battery (the spring
| barrel pretty much is the battery) is the clever part here.
| It's more efficient than using a rotor to charge a battery and
| run a stepper motor, and more accurate than a purely mechanical
| escapement. But it's still fundamentally a quartz watch, which
| turns some purists off.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| To those that are interested in Watchmaking.
|
| 1. All books by Henry Fried. (A. many books overlap info., but if
| reasonably priced are work buying.)
|
| 2. All books by DeCarle. (see A above.)
|
| 3. George Daniel's book.
|
| 4. All past issues of AWCI magazine.
|
| 5. Oh yea, get Questions, and Answers for AWCI test questions.
|
| (Don't pay a lot for these books, pamphlets. They can be found,
| but you need to hunt.)
|
| 6. Decide if you want to use a loupe, or stereoscope.
|
| 7. Yes--it does take a few years to get good.
|
| 8. You will not get rich repairing watches, but you can do it
| forever.
|
| (If you are in the need if a watchmaker in the bay area, in a few
| months I will have a small shop. The business will be under the
| name of Jacob Decosta. I'm honest. There will be some very
| complicated watches I won't work on though. My prices will be
| vastly lower than factory prices.)
| dole wrote:
| Kind of a niche for HN, but there's a few watchmaking programs
| catering to US military veterans that began after WWII, dried
| up a bit but seem to be making a bit of a resurgence.
|
| https://www.veteranswatchmakerinitiative.org
| mvanga wrote:
| I really enjoyed the courses at: https://learnwatchmaking.com/
| aranchelk wrote:
| Do you have a Google Form or something where people can sign up
| for an email notification when you open your shop?
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| Not yet, but I'm on FB. I have a neglected page that tries to
| teach Watch Repairing--It's called "Watch Repairing". My page
| has a b/w picture of my bench.
|
| You can message me here--I believe:
|
| https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=732457960219638&ref=co.
| ..
| iamgopal wrote:
| Can current physics simulation software or library fast enough to
| simulate such watch in real time ?
| tintt wrote:
| Mechanical watch is a mesmerizing device. Makes you wonder
| though, why there was so little progress around mechanical
| technology (not only watch specific) lately? My car can talk to
| me, steer, retain speed by following other vehicles, but the most
| amazing mechanical innovation it has is a frustratingly slow,
| whining seat memory function. It's not only boring, it also
| relies on a century old tech. Watch are the same, auto wound
| mechanism was introduced 98 years ago, was slightly improved 60
| years ago, still is expensive to produce and maintain, still has
| reliability issues.
| havelhovel wrote:
| For the most part I agree with you. I think the popular watch
| companies (Omega, Rolex, etc.) are resting on their laurels,
| but perhaps in part because that's what their consumers want. I
| credit Zenith and Seiko with making their more recent advances
| accessible to wider audiences. However, most innovation in
| mechanical watches, unfortunately, is currently too expensive
| or niche for wide diffusion. Check out companies like MB&F,
| Urwerk, HYT, and Ressence to see what's being done.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| but the most amazing mechanical innovation it has is a
| frustratingly slow, whining seat memory function
|
| What do we mean by "lately?" The humble old internal combustion
| engine has made some _really_ impressive progress in the past
| several decades.
|
| Engines are roughly 2X better now in the categories that
| matter: power output, fuel efficiency, and expected lifetime.
| Some of the fuel efficiency gains have of course been canceled
| out by increased overall vehicle weight, so it's easy to
| overlook how much more efficient the engines themselves are.
|
| In 1986, a Ford Mustang GT had a 5.0L V8 that produced 200HP.
|
| In 2021, a Ford Mustang GT has a 5.0L V8 that produces 460HP.
|
| A 2021 base model Ford Mustang has an engine that produces
| 310HP from only 2.3L of displacement.
|
| (Not that Ford is special in this regard; I just picked the
| Mustang because they've produced a 5.0L V8 for most of the
| brand's lifetime and it's fun to compare a 1986 5.0L engine
| versus a 2021 5.0L engine...)
| tintt wrote:
| Excellent point! Combustion engine did see a fair bit of
| progress.
| cstoner wrote:
| Seiko's "spring drive" is a pretty cool innovation, though it's
| not purely mechanical.
|
| I think at the very core of the issue is that mechanical
| watches are really art pieces at this point. Quartz watches are
| just cheaper and more reliable. So, if you wanting a watch for
| the pure utility of it all that's what you should be going for.
| martinkraft wrote:
| For those who are interested in superior technology, start
| reading about quartz movements and the piezoelectric effect.
| Citizen Watch Company recently release the most accurate quartz
| watch ever, accurate to 1 second _per year_. Contrast that to the
| mechanical watches that Rolex--one of the best mechanical
| manufacturers--produces and the best they can do is an accuracy
| of about 1 second _per day_. Hundreds of times less accurate.
| Yikes! And then you can get into radio-controlled and GPS-
| controlled solar watches that you literally never have to set or
| change the battery. So neat!
|
| Mechanical watches are an emotional rather than rational
| technology, and hey if that's what you're into: mechanical
| watches and horse-drawn-buggies and gas lanterns then that's
| totally cool.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| A mechanical watch is a piece of jewelry that happens to tell
| time. It's more like a film camera or record player, things
| people still actually use.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| I respect Quartz watches. In fact, I've thought about getting a
| Citizen eco-drive. I've had a timex for years.
|
| But I got into mechanical watches earlier this year - a
| Hamilton Pilot and a Field. There is a beauty in the
| combination of accuracy, complexity and the lack of reliance on
| electricity that I find fascinating, just as someone can
| appreciate a sailboat or a record player for their amazing
| engineering.
|
| I haven't figured out how to express it clearly, but things
| like mechanical watches, pour-over/press coffee, record
| players, coal grills. They all involve a lack of electricity
| and lack of network connectivity. The heat is right there from
| the coal. The coffee was ground and made by /me/. The power
| comes from the sails. The watch moves from my winding it - it
| depends on me. The sound is imprinted on the record - The
| source of the sound, right there on a platter, vibrating a
| needle, not from a coded bitstream I can only access with an
| internet subscription, a computer and a music subscription.
|
| Anyway. There is a better essay somewhere in here. My point is,
| I get the superiority of Quartz over mechanical re: accuracy
| and maybe even ruggedness, but there is a lost romance.
| opmac wrote:
| Analog vs digital! I feel similar to you. There's a certain
| feeling with analog/mechanical instruments that is hard to
| replicate.
|
| That being said, I think there is something fascinating about
| eco-drive movements, or just plain quartz movements in
| general. In the eco-drive case, you're harnessing the raw
| energy of the sun! Right there on your wrist! And they're
| using piezoelectricity to accurately keep time!
|
| It's so simple nowadays that we all take it for granted, but
| centuries of scientific improvements have gone into making
| that relatively inexpensive and accurate wristwatch
| accessible to everybody.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| You left out fountain pens, which is something that often
| goes hand in hand with these other things.
|
| If this had not yet occurred to you, well, let me be the
| first to welcome you to that particular club. ;) A Lamy
| Safari is a great place to start.
| samatman wrote:
| My daily driver is an Apple Watch. It does a dozen small things
| which add up to a great deal of utility. Sure I have to charge
| it every day, but it's worth it. Needless to say the time is
| always accurate, and I can display it however I want just by
| flicking a finger across the surface.
|
| When I dress up, I put on one of my mechanicals (I have three
| and will probably add more before I'm done). There's just
| something cool about an intricate gear-driven machine on my
| wrist, and they look good: a dress watch is jewelry which
| happens to tell time.
|
| Quartz watches kind of fall into the middle for me. It runs on
| electricity, but it won't tap my wrist with two different
| patterns which tell me if I'm turning left or right when I'm
| driving, and I can't tell it to remind me in an hour to take
| the laundry out of the dryer. It won't track my heart rate and
| I can't play 2048 on it.
|
| So, boring. But that's just my taste, I'm glad you enjoy quartz
| watches even though they're obviously inferior _as technology_
| to a good smart watch.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| Are you me? Because this is me:
|
| - Apple daily driver; fancy mechanicals for dressing up
|
| - Utter boredom at the prospect of quartz watches
| pkulak wrote:
| That Caliber 0100 really is amazing. Looks great too. I like
| HAQ, but there's something about Seiko designs that just
| doesn't do it for me.
|
| All that said, I still think you get more for your $7,500 from
| a luxury mechanical watch. The accuracy of a watch matters so
| little to me at this point, that's it's almost gone negative; I
| kind of enjoy setting the time every once in a while. :D
| martinkraft wrote:
| > there's something about Seiko designs that just doesn't do
| it for me
|
| Totally agree. When it comes to solar-radio the best looking
| I've found is this, which I bought:
|
| https://www.seikowatches.com/jp-
| ja/products/seikoselection/s...
|
| Junghans released a solar-radio version of their Max Bill:
|
| https://www.junghans.de/en/collection/watches/junghans-
| max-b...
|
| ... but apparently the hands aren't self-correcting like the
| Seikos and Citizens and that would bug me way too much
| because they wouldn't line up perfectly with the markers.
|
| > I still think you get more for your $7,500 from a luxury
| mechanical watch
|
| I used to agree and then my mind changes; can't say exactly
| why but I sold my 2 Rolexes and haven't wanted a mech. since.
|
| Anyhow, all my teasing of mech. fans aside, it's all
| frivolous fun!
| joshocar wrote:
| > Mechanical watches are an emotional rather than rational
| technology, and hey if that's what you're into: mechanical
| watches and horse-drawn-buggies and gas lanterns then that's
| totally cool.
|
| You could say the same thing about people who are into classic
| muscle cars. "Hey, if like driving around in a model T and
| braking down every 5 miles then that's totally cool."
| Everything is emotional. Does anyone really need a GPS synced
| watch that is accurate to the nanosecond? No, people want it
| because they think it's cool. Some people want mechanical
| watches because they think they are cool.
|
| You must be so fun at parties.
| throwaway210222 wrote:
| > Everything is emotional.
|
| No it really isn't. HN is not the correct forum for this
| sweeping psychobabble.
|
| > Does anyone really need a GPS synced watch that is accurate
| to the nanosecond? No, people want it because they think it's
| cool.
|
| No, we buy these accurate watches because a) there are only a
| few such watch makers, and b) they all use an even smaller
| pool of GPS chips. And its these chips that have the
| precision that bugs you so.
|
| > You must be so fun at parties.
|
| Not your finest comment
| joshocar wrote:
| > And its these chips that have the precision that bugs you
| so.
|
| I never said it bugs me. I own a Citizen solar powered
| watch. I also own a mechanical watch and a smart watch. I
| would probably by a GPS synced watch.
|
| I stand by my comment that everything is emotional.
| martinkraft wrote:
| > everything is emotional
|
| I guess I "emotionally" choose the most precise tool for
| the task of telling time.
| martinkraft wrote:
| > You must be fun at parties.
|
| My _favorite_ thing to do at parties is to poke fun of
| hobbies in Hacker News comments.
| nine_k wrote:
| Mechanical watches are a fashion accessory that also happen to
| show time.
|
| This does not prevent them from being feats of engineering,
| because of the technology limitations, and the need to show off
| (ever saw a tourbillion watch?). I would compare them to
| Faberge's eggs of our time.
| dvt wrote:
| > Hundreds of times less accurate. Yikes!
|
| Everyone knows this; you're making it seem like it's some kind
| of conspiracy.
|
| Mechanical watches are awesome. I bought my first "semi-luxury"
| one (a Longines Diver for like $3,000) two years ago and I love
| everything about it: the style, the complication, the fact that
| I need to wind it if I want to wear it. Everything is so
| interesting and neat. Everything has so much history:
| watchmakers were the pinnacle of human engineering for
| centuries!
|
| It's something special I'd love to leave to my hopefully future
| kids. I like my Casio F-91W for different reasons[1], but it's
| certainly not as special.
|
| [1] https://dvt.name/2019/06/03/hacking-the-casio-f-91w-to-
| handl...
| martinkraft wrote:
| Longines makes a high-accuracy (+- 5 seconds-per-year) quartz
| watch called the Conquest V.H.P. that is respectable. Both
| your mechanical and their quartz movements are produced by
| ETA (Swatch Group).
| drivers99 wrote:
| > And then you can get into radio-controlled and GPS-controlled
| solar watches that you literally never have to set or change
| the battery
|
| I got into watches last summer. I was watching a watch-
| repairman on Twitch ( twitch.tv/mr_horologist ; looks like he
| has been just working on cars and stuff lately. Darn...) which
| is relaxing and educational. I dug up my great-grandfather's
| pocketwatch and got it repaired.
|
| After looking around, I did get a Casio watch exactly like you
| described (actually, no, it's not GPS, it's so-called "atomic"
| over-the-air signal from NIST, or other sources in other
| continents), because in the end I wanted it to do two things:
| always keep perfect time, yet never require software updates.
| Not needing a battery is a great additional feature.
|
| One of these, the one with the analog hands instead of (ugly to
| me) purely digital, although those are cheaper:
| https://www.casio.com/products/watches/wave-ceptor
|
| To me, that's the perfect type of technology. Sorry you're
| getting downvoted for bringing up a related, by not exactly the
| same, topic/opinion.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Another type of movement which is fun is the tuning fork
| movement: https://www.watchonista.com/articles/bulova-accutron-
| tuning-...
|
| For those of you of a patriotic persuasion, its a US invention,
| something they did better than the swiss.
|
| I like them (even though I'm not american) because they are good
| looking movements, and have some hilariously tight engineering
| tolerances
|
| They also used to power planes and satellites before cheap low
| power robust quartz and eventually atomic clocks.
| anadem wrote:
| I had a Bulova Accutron with tuning fork movement, which I
| lost. Some months later while napping I hear a quiet hum, and
| find the watch rolled up in a carpet .. it was a watch with
| inbuilt locator function!
| greg7gkb wrote:
| Slight tangent but I thought this guide to Rolex labels and
| features was pretty interesting - even for a non-watch-head:
| https://www.gearpatrol.com/watches/a539980/the-complete-role...
| breakall wrote:
| May I also recommend this excellent video[1] from Hamilton made
| in 1949 that thoroughly explains how mechanical watches work.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0_vOw6eCc
| yboris wrote:
| One of my favorite videos: a Japanese watch repairman repairs a
| watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbpgNSvWHOo
| CydeWeys wrote:
| I got pretty into watches during the pandemic. It's definitely
| one of those expensive hobbies.
| NinjaViking wrote:
| Not necessarily! You can get plenty of nerd mileage out of
| Orient, Seiko and Vostok automatic/mechanical watches for a
| reasonable amount of money.
| joshocar wrote:
| I'm a big fan of Hamilton watches. I like the simple design
| and the one I have is amazingly accurate, like within seconds
| of NTP over weeks when the weather and temperature are ideal.
| They definitely don't break the bank.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| +1 for orient.
|
| I have a sexy 70s quartz omega, but my daily watch is an
| orient ray raven II. I've regulated it myself, so its now
| about +- 35 seconds a month (which is better than most
| rolexes.....)
|
| even cheaper are pocket watches, and they are much larger and
| easier to play with.
| vgeek wrote:
| Exactly this. There are tons of essentially new old stock
| mechanical watches from all over the world (Vostok and other
| similar brands) that can be had in the $100 range, and the
| $300-500 range has lots of solid watches (maybe also
| Hamilton?).
|
| I'd take an equally functional and/or reliable Japanese
| movement over an ETA that is used in the "luxury" categories
| where you're just paying for the label on the watch.
|
| But quartz watches (~90% of my collection) are way more
| practical. They last longer (most mechanical watches need
| servicing every 5 years at $150+ per pop), keep better time,
| can be picked up and put on without setting if not worn every
| day and are only like $3 to swap out a battery. The key is
| finding a neat "gimmick" with quartz watches from quality
| brands. Things like Tritium luminescence are good if you like
| field watches. Or Citizen/Casio atomic watches that are super
| accurate through the use of the WWVB signal. Or "other uses"
| --
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism
| iamben wrote:
| My first mechanical watch was a Seiko SKX007. I wore it
| almost everyday for ~10 years and it was a complete delight.
| There is something so wonderful about having something on
| your wrist that feels like _magical_ engineering.
| stevekemp wrote:
| It depends what your style/preferences are.
|
| I've got two boxes of watches, one contains old soviet pieces
| from the 60s onwards. Each of those watches probably cost no
| more than EUR100, and usually they're far cheaper than that. (I
| buy them used.)
|
| If you want to look at that kind of thing I wrote a comment
| here showing the process I use, roughly, to find them:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27167654
|
| Sure my second watch box has a few more expensive pieces in it,
| but you don't need to spend money if you like the form,
| history, and utility of the other pieces.
| creeble wrote:
| Can be, for sure.
|
| One thing I've enjoyed is a focus on just a couple of brands of
| old watches. I have about 10 Enicar watches; they made
| everything from simple hand-wind no-date watches (my favorite)
| to complex chronographs. They have a whimsical logo (a shark
| jumping at Jupiter) that matches the whimsy of their founder -
| his name was Racine, but he had an uncle in the watch business
| with that name, so he spelt it backwards.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Glad I'm not the only one. It was one of my ways of coping with
| the pandemic. For me it gave me an incentive to take care of
| myself and get dressed every day even though I wasn't leaving
| the house. You?
| desine wrote:
| I recently fell into this rabbit hole. I bought a cheap automatic
| watch - a Seiko 5, for both practical reasons and otherwise (will
| work after an EMP attack/solar event, but it's also just cool as
| hell mechanical engineering using 200 year old technology). Then
| I started putting watch repair youtube videos on in the
| background as I did chores or wrote code. Then I started actually
| watching the watch repair videos. Last week, I got a box of
| books, tools, and expendables. Today, when I get home, I'll have
| a box of broken pocket watches to tear into and probably
| irreparably mess up.
|
| When I was a kid, my grandfather and I tore down some old watches
| as a rainy afternoon activity one day. I was fascinated. It
| wasn't until I listened to the podcast Shit Town (S-Town) that I
| thought about horology as a hobby again.
|
| One interesting thing I learned, is that if you're looking for a
| career change, you can become a certified watch maker for free.
| Many of the schools are sponsored by the big name watch
| manufacturers, and tuition is free. It's a full time education,
| so you'll need enough financial runway to survive for a year or
| two, but you'll come out with no debt as a certified watch
| builder/repairperson.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| That's how it starts!
|
| For me, my mechanical watch obsession started when I inherited
| my father's mid-70s Rolex. Back then, they weren't as insanely
| out of reach as they've become; they were a very robust watch
| that would Just Work for a long, long time, and which looked
| nice. (Remember, this was only about 15 years after Sean
| Connery wore a Submariner in Dr No; Rolex was even LESS
| upmarket in the 60s, which was a time when very few watches
| were waterproof AT ALL.)
|
| Then the dot-com boom happened, and I had a little money, and I
| bought an Omega (which I'm actually wearing right now). It's a
| late-90s Seamaster, like the one they put on Pierce Brosnan's
| wrist for Goldeneye around the same time. (Incidentally, snooty
| jewelers do not think you are funny if you ask how to make the
| laser shoot out.)
|
| There are others, too, but the Omega is the nicest one I own.
| They are all EMP-proof, spring-driven marvels. Most have dates,
| but none show days or months. I do enjoy that there ARE
| mechanical movements with perpetual calendars, though, even if
| they do cost as much as a cheap house.
|
| About 5 years ago, I fell down the AppleWatch hole after buying
| one to use while running and biking, and finding it so useful
| that I wore it to the exclusion of all the other watches. I
| have a nicer Apple Watch now (titanium S6) that I wear MOST of
| the time, but several times a month I'll pull one of the others
| out to wear. With this usage pattern, they're all "oh, shiny!"
| to me, too, which is neat.
| Cd00d wrote:
| I too fell off my mechanical watch obsession when I added a
| smartwatch to my life. My current Fitbit keeps better time,
| is as waterproof as my dive watches, and give me so much
| more.
|
| It makes me sad sometimes, as the mechanical marvel of
| watches is beautiful, but in the end, I had a Seiko SKX-007
| that needed some maintenance, and I was quoted $600. It was a
| $200 watch and they were going to swab the movement. That
| watch has emotional value, but I can't keep it running at 3x
| the replacement cost.
|
| Maybe someday I'll find a way to wear another mechanical, and
| get all the health tracking I appreciate otherwise. Or maybe,
| technology finally replaced history for me. The funny thing
| is, I almost _never_ would have considered a quartz watch
| lol.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I had a Seiko SKX-007 that needed some
| maintenance, and I was quoted $600.
|
| That price is _awfully_ high. They were either trying to
| rip you off... or simply drive you away, which is possible
| if they were a shop that prefers to work on high-value
| watches for wealthy customers. Maybe they are an authorized
| Rolex service center and prefer to collect _those_ hefty
| prices.
|
| But, there's definitely not $500+ of labor involved at any
| reasonable market rate.
|
| Those Seiko 7S26 movements are something like $50 new and
| even an amateur can perform the swap in a short amount of
| time without specialized tools (edit: well, maybe a hand
| puller, but that's cheap) and there are plenty of videos
| showing how.
|
| There's no actual watchmaking knowledge required. That
| would only be required if trying to repair a module rather
| than simply swap it out.
|
| The SKXxxx models are something of a classic but are hard
| to find now that they've been discontinued for a while; if
| you still have your broken model it may be worth more than
| you paid for it.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| I've looked into this and the only recommended tools were
| a hand puller and hand press, otherwise it's pretty
| straightforward to replace the movement with another
| stock one, or switch it out to 4R36/NH36 to add hacking
| and hand winding. I plan to swap the movement for one of
| the hacking/handwinding ones when the movement when my
| SKX009 dies.
| desine wrote:
| I got into it after my smartwatches, oddly enough. I didn't
| wear a watch between the mid-90s young kid with a Timex
| Expedition and the late 2010's adult with an Apple Watch.
| It was getting in the habit of the smartwatch that made me
| desire to wear something different again.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| I think about this problem often. I think it's caused by
| economies of scale and is an escapee of Pandora's Box that
| we're not going to be able to put back. Instead, we need to
| think carefully about what we build and how we build it -
| educate consumers, regulate to price in obsolescence and
| recycling costs, and place greater value on long-term
| quality as a society - to prevent this from growing even
| worse.
|
| I build industrial automation equipment, so I'm in part to
| blame for the problem, however, I'm also in a position to
| advocate for easier repair processes and more sensible
| assembly stackups. It's simply a fact that the six figures
| in initial equipment capital divided by, hopefully, a
| similar number of unit sales, plus the few dozen seconds of
| operator hands-on time per unit, always going to produce an
| end product which costs less than hours of diagnosis and
| maintenance by a local, high-skill repairman. The math
| simply doesn't add permit any other arrangement, no matter
| how standardized your tooling is, how open your repair
| manual is, or how efficient your aftermarket parts
| ecosystem is.
|
| Repairing and maintaining something for more money than it
| cost to produce it puts those activities firmly in the
| realm of luxury goods. The better we get at producing
| useful things cheaply, the more we have to multiply the
| value of human labor, and the less it makes sense to repair
| cheap things with this expensive labor.
|
| One interesting option today is that you can get an
| electronic watch and get access to all the internals as
| well:
|
| https://open-smartwatch.github.io/
|
| However, its operation depends on electrons and bits
| instead of springs and escapements, and you can see those
| bits moving about in PlatformIO code instead of under a
| magnifier.
| jioawpfj wrote:
| in the event an EMP knocks out all your electronics, is having
| a functioning watch something that really matters?
|
| also, where are you that an EMP is a realistic concern?
| JohnBooty wrote:
| in the event an EMP knocks out all your electronics,
| is having a functioning watch something that really
| matters?
|
| If you know what time it is, you can use your watch as a
| fairly accurate compass in an emergency.
|
| https://www.citizenwatch-
| global.com/s/support/exterior/direc...
| bee_rider wrote:
| If you are the only one with a working watch, is your time
| definitionally correct, off by a bit, or completely
| incorrect?
| desine wrote:
| Even as the world ends, I will enjoy a few last perfectly
| soft boiled eggs over my camp stove, and contemplate the
| meaning of existence. And a major US metropolitan area, near
| several military bases, airports, and missile launch sites.
| So more than most of the population.
|
| On a more serious note, as a bit of a "prepper" - it's not
| hard to cover the essentials. Once past that, working
| timepieces greatly simplify coordination and other group
| efforts. Additionally, I would expect decent trade value out
| of them, should the unlikely but tragic circumstances occur.
| martinkraft wrote:
| You can make a solar clock in your fictional scenario.
| desine wrote:
| not precise enough to soft boil eggs, and not as easily
| as remembering to wear my automatic for an hour a day, or
| wind my manuals once per day.
|
| I'm failing to understand why this is so contentious
| outside of "anti-prepper" attitudes.
| lexicality wrote:
| I live near the centre of a very large city (London) so I
| feel like the best I have to look forward to in that kind
| of scenario is to set up some environmental storytelling in
| the form of wall graffiti and then die in some comical way
| like having a black cab fall on me
| technothrasher wrote:
| I fell sort of sideways, after tearing apart a bunch of old
| pocket watches and working my way in various directions, I've
| ended up in love with 18th and early 19th century tall case
| clocks. I've got about eight of them now, and spend much of my
| weekends at a little local clock museum sucking all the
| knowledge I can out of the curator there.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| " One interesting thing I learned, is that if you're looking
| for a career change, you can become a certified watch maker for
| free. Many of the schools are sponsored by the big name watch
| manufacturers, and tuition is free. It's a full time education,
| so you'll need enough financial runway to survive for a year or
| two, but you'll come out with no debt as a certified watch
| builder/repairperson."
|
| Side note: you do have to relocate yourself/your family to the
| school's location.
| emodendroket wrote:
| To be fair automatic watches drift substantially over time.
| xcambar wrote:
| Yes, they do, and that is a very poetic thing to consider.
|
| On one hand, you can marvel at how little they drift during a
| single power reserve. Could be seconds, which is barely
| noticeable in everyday life.
|
| On the other hand, some others (Seiko 5...) can drift minutes
| in a single reserve... And so what? In a day and age when we
| measure everything with maniac precision even during a random
| person's day, it's beautiful to lose some control and gain
| back some leeway with regards to time.
|
| I love that it is "about 22:00" rather than 22:03:37.
| canadianfella wrote:
| What is beautiful or poetic about that?
| desine wrote:
| >I love that it is "about 22:00" rather than 22:03:37.
|
| Agreed. I view myself as a pretty casual person, someone
| who's not overly concerned with the minutae of modern life.
| But with a digital watch, it's "12:47" and not "a quarter
| to one", which to me sounds infinitely cooler. With a
| slightly inaccurate mechanical movement, I fall into the
| latter manner of speaking, which is more what I want to be.
| Weird psychological preferences, but something that counts,
| to me.
| emodendroket wrote:
| I don't really find it beautiful being 15 minutes late
| because I haven't adjusted my watch in a while. This is
| really a big thing that put me off.
| desine wrote:
| To be fair that's like half my love of them. Like a fresh
| blank canvas, perfection is boring.
| emodendroket wrote:
| What's the point of an imprecise measure of time as a
| backup in case of EMP attack?
| domesmack wrote:
| I was in the hole about 3 years ago, I bought a book, some
| tools, and a couple of broken movements off of eBay with the
| thought that I'd just " dive in and learn how they work ", but
| I stalled out. Without a set direction I found the space of
| things that could be wrong with my sample broken movement to be
| too large. Hell, I didn't even know if all the components were
| there.
|
| It's something I'd like to get into, hopefully with some hand
| holding. I'm curious what resources you're using, and if
| there's some kind of loose curriculum to ease the beginning
| efforts.
| desine wrote:
| A bunch of youtube, a strong mechanical sense, and the book
| "watch Repair for Beginners", which was _not_ noted in this
| comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28116525
|
| So I'm likely down the same path as you, eventual "failure",
| if looking at it as a career choice. But I'm also ~a year
| behind you, starting a similar path with no handholidng and
| likely no profit. I watch this guy on youtube, occasionally,
| and his paid series has been mentioned here and elsewhere, as
| being worthwhile, but I have not paid for those videos (yet).
| https://www.watchfix.com/ (formerly known as
| http://watchrepairlessons.com/ )
| carabiner wrote:
| Is there any mechanical watch like the Seiko 5, but thinner and
| hopefully not much more expensive? I have a 5 and like it, it
| does feel a bit chunky at times.
| nstricevic wrote:
| Perhaps some vintage manual wound watch? For example Seiko
| 6300-8009. There are models from other brands, too. Just look
| for a steel case.
| hangonhn wrote:
| This is definitely not cheaper but just wanted to share this
| link on the Piaget Altiplano Watch so people can see how thin
| it can be:
|
| https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/piaget-altiplano-
| ultimate-...
|
| The degree mechanical watches push the boundary of
| miniaturization (outside of lithography) is amazing.
| pushrax wrote:
| The Seiko 5 movement is reasonably thin but often packaged
| into a large case. You might not have the thinnest Seiko 5.
| opmac wrote:
| Seiko 5 is probably the cheapest, worthwhile mechanical
| watch. You can always get cheap Chinese and Russian watches
| as well but they will be of lesser quality and reliability
| than the Seiko. So to answer your question directly -
| probably not. But I would recommend checking out Orient
| watches. They have a decent set of mechanical watches of all
| different styles, not much more expensive than the classic
| Seiko 5, but definitely a step up in quality.
| https://www.orientwatchusa.com/
|
| Thickness is always going to be an issue with automatic
| watches. You can get thinner watches if they are manual wind
| since they don't have a rotor. Usually, the thinner they get,
| the more expensive they get though, so keep that in mind. You
| can get super thin manual wind watches but they will cost
| hundreds to thousands of dollars usually.
| approxim8ion wrote:
| This is funny because Seiko has notoriously terrible
| quality control, from misaligned bezels and/or chapter
| rings to dodgy bracelets across their entire lineup, even
| the more expensive ones.
|
| About Orient: they are pretty much poised to take the spot
| that Seiko has occupied for entry level mechanical watches,
| as Seiko themselves move further up market. I love the
| design of their Bambino and some of the OrientStar
| offerings but they have a few quirks I'm not fond of.
|
| I definitely recommend also trying a hand-wound watch
| because the slimness is wonderful and the winding has a
| charm to itself as well. I have RSI issues so the lightness
| and slimness is certainly a big plus, combined with the
| fact that most vintage or vintage-inspired manual wind
| watches have small dials and cases too.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| It seems to me that the the QC issues are largely
| cosmetic, but are mostly with the Prospex models (some of
| their priciest models!) and seem to have intensified in
| the last few years.
|
| I've heard from watch geeks with friends in "the
| business" that Seiko is aware of the issue thanks to the
| negative online word-of-mouth these issues have
| generated, but I don't know how reliable that hearsay is.
| (Really, though, Seiko would have to be blind not to be
| aware of the issues...)
|
| We'll see if Seiko is actually aware and if that actually
| results in an improvement. If so I suspect that it will
| take some time for results to be seen given the lag time
| between manufacture date and watches winding up in
| consumers' hands.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| I'm very fond of this watch, I picked mine up during a Macy's
| sale for $300: https://www.hamiltonwatch.com/en-
| us/h69439931-khaki-field-me...
|
| There are few different dial and strap combos, I just ordered
| a steel bracelet for mine.
|
| It's a bit thinner than the Seiko 5 SNK803 or SKX007, is a
| reasonable size (38mm) and the hand wound movement reduces
| the thickness since there's no rotor. There isn't a day/date
| complication either, just a three hand watch.
| desine wrote:
| Vintage soviet watches tend to be pretty thin, from what I've
| gathered. They also tend to be less well made/reliable than
| modern equivalents, and many of the ones you see on ebay are
| maxed out on their typical adjustments to stay reasonably in
| time.
| alexjplant wrote:
| My understanding is that NH35-powered watches are generally
| 13mm minimum (the divers at least) because the Seiko
| movements are generally on the thicker side as far as three-
| handers go. I'd look for something PT5000-powered on
| AliExpress like the offerings from Escapement Time [1].
|
| [1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001053227921.html
| timr wrote:
| You can usually find used Hamiltons for less than $500.
| They're a solid watch with an ETA movement and a sapphire
| crystal.
|
| Also, some of the microbrands are pretty interesting at the
| $500-$1500 range. I like many of the designs Farer is doing.
| walshemj wrote:
| Christopher Ward is another good value mechanical.
|
| Be warned I was looking at a sub from them, and got sucked
| down the rabbit hole and now have a Tudor BB58 Pepsi GMT.
|
| Tudors the feeder brand for Rolex BTW.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I love mechanical watches too, but surely some cheap digital
| watches stashed in a shielded box would be the more effective
| post-EMP timekeeping device, right?
| desine wrote:
| Shielding itself is not perfect. Probably enough for the
| simple circuitry of an analog quartz. But it's not
| guaranteed. It's a buffer that reduces a wave by a few to a
| few dozen dB. A EM pulse through even a properly grounded
| faraday cage will still replicate another smaller wave
| internally.
|
| Just let me collect my tiny mechanical toys, dammit, don't
| ask questions.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Oh, I didn't mean to rain on your parade. I love my diver's
| watches. In a similar vein I love having 200M of water
| resistance even though I'll never take them any deeper than
| the bottom of a small swimming pool, lol.
| agloeregrets wrote:
| I got a Seiko 5 as well, non-sports model. SNK809. I absolutely
| adore the little thing, it blows my mind just how little energy
| it needs to operate. Even when fully unwound, the slightest
| nudge gets it ticking at exactly the right speed. What an
| incredible work of engineering for so cheap.
| Maxburn wrote:
| I seriously considered this as an exit strategy at one point
| too. Also S-Town was fantastic, highly recommended.
| samatman wrote:
| I would like to suggest "the history and mechanics of the self-
| winding mechanism" from the subtitle as a more informative title
| for this article.
|
| Watches work in a lot of ways, after all; some are solar-powered
| quartz with a radio listening to the atomic broadcast!
|
| Also, it appears "How Watches Work" is the name of the series,
| which would be awkward if another post from the series ended up
| on Hacker News.
| opmac wrote:
| I love this. As a watch enthusiast myself, it's always great to
| see the history of watches and how their internals came to be.
|
| For anybody interested, there's also an awesome video from
| Hamilton made in the late 40s that shows a lot of the information
| in this article!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0_vOw6eCc
| nikital wrote:
| I made a WebGL mechanical clock simulation if anyone wants to
| look at it in motion: https://clock.leshenko.net/
| michaelg7x wrote:
| Superb, thanks for sharing!
| city41 wrote:
| This is very cool. Thanks for making it.
| opmac wrote:
| Super cool - thanks!
| toiletaccount wrote:
| If anyone is interested in this I highly recommend Longitude by
| Dava Sobel. It's about the creation of modern timekeepers by a
| carpenter with no training at all in watchmaking. Brilliant guy
| who created something which truly changed the world.
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