[HN Gopher] Screw You, Microsoft Edge
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Screw You, Microsoft Edge
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2021-08-08 17:29 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.charlespetzold.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.charlespetzold.com)
        
       | kunagi7 wrote:
       | Features like this one (Save Time and Money) should be opt-in.
       | I've never used Edge so I don't really know its inner workings...
       | So, the browser should ask on first start (or after an update
       | adds a feature) if you wish to use it.
       | 
       | As companies do, the dialog should have a button to select
       | preferred defaults (sadly, most users will just click that) and a
       | list of options like the cookie dialogs for advanced users with
       | everything disabled.
       | 
       | Still, there are better alternatives out there like Vivaldi,
       | ungoogled-chromium, Brave, etc.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Each alternative is not without it's own faults. Brave
         | continuously tries to prompt and default peddle the same kind
         | of things as being denounced here and Vivaldi is all kinds of
         | slow and memory heavy due to the way the custom browser
         | experience is implemented. Ungoogled Chromium is probably the
         | best option for someone that puts this kind of stuff first but
         | for the average user it is a nightmare out of the box (clears
         | 1st party cookies on close, doesn't handle drm content out of
         | the box, doesn't have a sync, requires manual extension
         | install, has default settings that will break many sites in the
         | name of privacy). Again good things for that crowd just not for
         | most people.
         | 
         | Even Firefox is pushing stuff like pocket by default and that's
         | an open source non profit browser from the old times!
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Microsoft actually did that. Built ads into the browser. On top
       | of other pages. I did not think they'd go that far.
       | 
       | This is the Charles Petzold who used to write Microsoft API
       | books, correct? Will they revoke his Microsoft MSDN membership
       | for this?
        
         | Tijdreiziger wrote:
         | They already built ads into the operating system, so this
         | doesn't seem like a huge leap to me.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | This sort of thing used to be only seen in hostile "toolbars"
           | installed via drive-by installs.
        
         | iso8859-1 wrote:
         | They already revoked his MSDN subscription, and everybody
         | else's.
         | 
         | They also killed off the magazine, the last issue is from
         | November 2019.
        
       | tyiz wrote:
       | You should ask for a refund!
        
       | bastard_op wrote:
       | Why would you ever even contemplate using edge as any self-
       | respecting technologist?
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | I can't tell if the author is being sarcastic or 100% serious.
       | This is such a silly thing to get so angry about that you
       | dedicate a whole blog post to it. Just close the prompt and move
       | on.
        
       | optimiz3 wrote:
       | Microsoft is in the affiliate link business now?
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | It's unclear whether this is a monetized feature. I can't get
         | the feature to trigger to check if there's e.g. any affiliate
         | codes. (Maybe it's US-only feature?). But my guess would be
         | that at least to start with it is not monetized in any way.
        
       | theodric wrote:
       | So, like, stop using Edge. Firefox doesn't do this crap! At some
       | point, it's the fault of the person choosing the tool that's
       | known to be made by an actor so bad they conceived Windows 10.
        
         | hhlbf wrote:
         | Firefox has been embedding ads in the interface since way
         | before Edge started doing it.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | Sadly, even Firefox isn't perfect. Look at its new tab page and
         | Pocket in particular. (I do agree that Firefox is way better
         | than Edge or Chrome, though.)
        
           | Lev1a wrote:
           | Difference being that in Firefox you can set the preferences
           | to not show those things _once_ and if you get on a new
           | device just sign into Sync and you 're off to the races.
           | 
           | Contrast that to Microsofts constant badgering, reset
           | preferences after every update (conveniently), etc etc.
        
             | onkoe wrote:
             | Kinda. Firefox keeps changing things anyways and adds more
             | stuff to turn off or modify. I used to routinely find
             | myself helping out family members with getting their
             | Firefox back to how it used to be, and it really did suck.
             | Worst of all, they're now forcing Firefox Accounts down
             | people's throats. Swapped to Librewolf some time ago and
             | haven't looked back, but it's unfortunate that they soil
             | their name like that.
        
           | grey_earthling wrote:
           | GNOME Web is worth considering, if you're using GNOME. It's
           | now a very competent simple browser, similar to Safari on Mac
           | OS a few years ago.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | Not a lawyer, but doesn't this reek of an antitrust issue again?
       | 
       | Imagine, I'm an operator of an independent book store - and
       | Microsoft uses their market power to actively drive away
       | customers from my site and direct them to the competition
       | instead.
       | 
       | Bonus points for the dark patterns embedded in that dialog box
       | which make it hard to _not_ switch to Walmart even if you
       | actively want to stay on the page.
        
         | topicseed wrote:
         | Is the link an affiliate link, or is Walmart paying for this?
         | If either is right, it's definitely not great.
        
         | kenjackson wrote:
         | I think it just finds lower prices. It can also drive you from
         | Walmart to another seller that has a cheaper price.
        
           | cdubzzz wrote:
           | Good point. Walmart should also be unhappy about this.
        
             | stonewareslord wrote:
             | Walmart will price match. If you show them the website of a
             | competitor like Amazon with a cheaper price, they will
             | charge you the lower price. I wonder how that would play
             | into this.
             | 
             | I suspect Microsoft isn't indexing prices of smaller
             | retailers as well, so that would also drive more business
             | to Walmart.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | Indeed it does. Googling the feature, it's said to scan for
         | items that have _coupons_. I guess I can get behind that (scan
         | only the active page for known items, match with known rebates,
         | and don 't drive me to a separate site).
         | 
         | I could even get behind a site warning for purchases known
         | fraud sites (In jurisdictions where such blacklists are easy to
         | come by from relevant authorities).
         | 
         | But driving me from an independent store to WalMart to save $2?
         | Imagine Wal Mart sending out one employee to walk around each
         | independent bookstore, whispering "you can get that 10% cheaper
         | at Wal Mart". I think people might take offense.Here microsoft
         | offers exactly that service to Wal Mart.
        
       | GnarfGnarf wrote:
       | Charles Petzold is a God amongst programmers. His " _Programming
       | Windows 3.1_ " book was the foundation of my company. Still going
       | strong twenty-five years later.
       | 
       | I loathe MS Edge. In spite of explicitly setting my default file
       | associations to my preferred applications, _every other day_
       | Windows insists on resetting PDF, JPG etc. to Edge. Va te faire
       | foutre.
        
         | techsupporter wrote:
         | > In spite of explicitly setting my default file associations
         | to my preferred applications
         | 
         | And getting griped at by Windows for doing it, too.
         | 
         | "Oh won't you pleeeeeeease consider using the Strongest,
         | Securest, Bestest, Most Wonderfulest Browser Out There, the
         | amazing Microsoft Edge instead of whatever piece of shit blob
         | of code you downloaded from the very untrustworthy dark
         | Interweb?!?"
         | 
         | No, Windows browser team, I want to use Firefox and just like
         | Google pushing their browser on their platform I resent you
         | pushing yours.
        
           | tester756 wrote:
           | The funny thing is that this may actually be true
           | 
           | >Strongest, Securest, Bestest,
           | 
           | Strongest because it's Chromium
           | 
           | "Securest" once they disable JIT
        
         | jsgo wrote:
         | This a work computer or a personal one?
         | 
         | My work computer resets my preferences after each reboot (which
         | I only do when system updates come down). Otherwise, it sticks.
         | Personal computer keeps my defaults.
        
       | imperialdrive wrote:
       | I've noticed that when using dev tools in Edge I see pretty
       | consistent hits to my services coming from a Microsoft ip address
       | within 30 seconds. Chrome does not do this. It's a little off-
       | putting.
        
       | throwaway888abc wrote:
       | Few beers in. Is this MS putting ads into browser directly ?
       | EDIT: Is this also means MS is analysing and process all your
       | browser history / page visits ?
        
       | throwthere wrote:
       | I think the "insulted" part is too much. Yes, the consumers
       | shopping on bookshop.org for a common book aren't just trying to
       | get books for the lowest price, but maybe 99% of online shoppers
       | are. Maybe I should be insulted that the author thinks being
       | identified as someone wanting the lowest price is insulting.
        
         | okareaman wrote:
         | As an old guy who yells at clouds, it's reassuring to see
         | another old guy on here yelling at clouds.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | Yelling at _clouds_ , indeed. The "cloudification" of
           | products is another thing that irritates me greatly these
           | days.
        
             | midasuni wrote:
             | There is no cloud, just someone else's computer
        
         | greycol wrote:
         | I mean it is the perfect expression of what a lot of us hate
         | about modern apps. The constant sucking up of all data for
         | advertising.
         | 
         | Lets be honest to follow best practice on security/privacy is a
         | constant schlep of tweaking options and compromising on
         | functionality. Then to have a base tool just throw in your face
         | that "We've added a feature and even though you've got 'send do
         | not track' ticked this is _not at all the same_ so we 'll turn
         | it on by default". Yeah I understand the need to vent
         | especially if he chose IE as a minor way to get away from
         | google tracking.
         | 
         | I mean, sure, we probably won't ever reach verification
         | mountain dew, but that meme first came about in 2012 and not
         | surprisingly we've slid closer and closer to that in the mean
         | time. People have had years of getting sicker and sicker of the
         | slow visible decline.
        
         | hellotomyrars wrote:
         | Agreed. Most consumers are price sensitive and probably would
         | find this helpful instead of insulting.
        
           | Bud wrote:
           | "Most" consumers want their browsing scanned so that they
           | have Walmart ads pushed to them while book shopping? I
           | disbelieve.
        
             | grey_earthling wrote:
             | I think most consumers expect most things to be commercial
             | experiences controlled by someone else.
             | 
             | Some like it; some don't; few believe they have a choice to
             | be anything other than a consumer.
        
       | Rapzid wrote:
       | I'm going to offer a different take; I like this! I kinda stopped
       | paying attention to Edge after it went Chromium. The old Edge
       | engineering posts were very interesting.
       | 
       | Anyway, I just fired it up to check this feature and didn't get
       | the experience the author implies. The shopping notices appear as
       | right justified text in the address bar then collapse right into
       | the little shopping tag. I have to click this tag to see the
       | shopping information pop-up.
       | 
       | Viewed an Amiibo on Amazon and it told me I had the best price,
       | but it also told me the price has increased recently. In the pop-
       | up, that I clicked the tag to produce, I could see price history
       | on the item over the past few months.
       | 
       | Pretty cool and will try this out over the next month or so of
       | shopping I think.
        
         | noloblo wrote:
         | i like this too and a very useful feature and stopped using
         | chrome since edge got insanely faster and lighter in the past
         | few updates
        
         | a1371 wrote:
         | I think the context is missed here. It's a useful tool, but
         | should it be an active-by-default feature shipped with the
         | browser? It doesn't add security and doesn't enhance speed.
         | Wasn't it more acceptable if this was an add-on?
        
         | andrewmackrodt wrote:
         | Same as experience here, i.e. it's not a popup but an icon in
         | the address bar which needs manual user action to trigger (it
         | also supports voucher codes).
         | 
         | I do not like the feature, but it's not as UI intrusive as the
         | article suggests; it is however privacy invasive. Despite
         | disabling multiple edge features related to telemetry, this is
         | a new default-on option.
         | 
         | I like Edge enough that it's my default browser on Windows,
         | Android and secondary to Firefox on Linux. However, one or two
         | more features like this and I may use something else.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | This has actually been in Microsoft Edge for the last several
       | months. The fact nobody noticed on Hacker News until now shows
       | how many of us are using Edge...
        
         | supernovae wrote:
         | It was in the original Edge as well.
         | 
         | I use the feature, beats the hell out of installing Honey and
         | going to bing/google shopping which is just paid adverts vs
         | catalogs they used to do...
        
       | ab_testing wrote:
       | I think the author forgets that edge is not custom software
       | written just for him. It is written for the masses. And masses
       | like me like this feature. It has saved me a couple of hundred
       | dollars since launch since I shop online and use Edge. Also if
       | you are so upset, then just disable it -> Settings > Privacy >
       | Save Time and Money
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | So malware is okay because you can turn it off? No.
        
         | ub99 wrote:
         | Do you think the author had an unreasonable expectation that a
         | browser won't suddenly start analyzing his buying habits and
         | offer alternatives?
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | Remember that one HTTP header that's always attached to every
           | request every browser makes? _User-Agent_. Ha ha. Those were
           | the days, when browsers were acting in the interest of their
           | users.
        
           | kenjackson wrote:
           | Is it analyzing buying habits or just the item he is looking
           | at?
           | 
           | And can't you just turn this off?
        
             | ub99 wrote:
             | I don't think this is the right question to ask. Browsers
             | can push any number of malware or tracking and then exclaim
             | "can't you just turn it off?". I understand that some users
             | find this feature useful, I just completely disagree with
             | how it was rolled out.
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | You're assuming this is malware or tracking. I don't
               | think that assumption is warranted. And at least this
               | unasked-for feature is ostensibly pro-user, unlike
               | Firefox's user-hostile additions like the Mr. Robot
               | nonsense.
        
               | craftinator wrote:
               | People use Edge? I assumed that a majority of users do
               | what I do on a fresh install, and download literally any
               | browser that's not made by Microsoft, and set it as
               | default.
        
               | readflaggedcomm wrote:
               | How is it possible to show alternatives to the products
               | you view without tracking those pages?
        
               | jsnell wrote:
               | The trivial non-tracking implementation would be for edge
               | to install the entire database of products and prices to
               | your local device.
               | 
               | Whether that is practical or not depends on just how
               | large the database is. But even if the database were to
               | be too large, it'd still allow us to reduce the question
               | to one of how to download the database incrementally to
               | the device without leaking information, which is a solved
               | problem. (E.g.the Safe Browsing algorithm.)
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | The trivial non-tracking implementation would be checking
               | if the domain of a requested page matches a certain list
               | of known e-commerce pages. If so, then on load, query the
               | other known e-commerce pages through a proxy to see if
               | there's a cheaper price. No tracking necessary.
        
               | jsgo wrote:
               | If the browser doesn't work with your ethics of how a
               | browser should operate, then it isn't the browser for
               | you. That's okay. There are other options out there.
        
         | darepublic wrote:
         | Nah I won't be disabling it because I have never even used edge
         | in the first place. Doesn't change the fact that people are
         | rightly pissed off by the fact that the masses are so downright
         | stupid and dragging themselves and the rest of humanity toward
         | destruction.
        
         | addicted wrote:
         | Firefox and Mozilla got a lot more outrage for including
         | Pocket, which was basically a slightly juiced up bookmarks or
         | Read it Later functionality that nearly every other browser
         | includes.
        
       | politician wrote:
       | Seeing this from Charles Petzold is incredible, and I share his
       | anger at the the adware-ification of the Windows platform.
        
         | S_A_P wrote:
         | Agreed- Crazy that this came from him. In the last 2-3 months
         | Ive noticed a few pretty annoying things happening with my MS
         | account- First the weather toolbar was added to my system tray
         | and it looked very much like one of those spam toolbars that
         | have plagued Windows ad/malware. Next I started getting
         | memories from OneDrive. I use my 1 drive for dev backup and as
         | such I get an email from MS with a bunch of icon images as a
         | memory.
        
           | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
           | I got the same weather toolbar. I cant seem to get rid of it.
           | 
           | I dont even know what weather its picking up or how to change
           | it
           | 
           | Its very frustrating
        
             | herman_toothrot wrote:
             | Right click on it (or some other blank space in the
             | taskbar), "News and interests" -> "Turn off"
             | 
             | Total garbage.
        
           | Flow wrote:
           | > Next I started getting memories from OneDrive. I use my 1
           | drive for dev backup and as such I get an email from MS with
           | a bunch of icon images as a memory.
           | 
           | I'm sorry, but that sounds hilarious.
        
             | bellyfullofbac wrote:
             | "Your memories on OneDrive: Remember this bug from 4 years
             | ago?"
             | 
             | Although, they should add that feature on GitHub. (No I'm
             | not serious, Mr/Ms. GitHub PM!)
        
         | dcow wrote:
         | I'd understand the anger way more if you couldn't just turn the
         | offending feature off.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | "Just turn it off" until the next update "helpfully" turns it
           | back on for you "to improve your experience."
        
           | bellyfullofbac wrote:
           | "We strive to make the best OS possible." vs. "Install Candy
           | Crush! Free lootbox if you install now!" (Not genuine
           | quotes).
           | 
           | What a joke of a company...
        
           | midasuni wrote:
           | By dropping windows 20 years ago? Yup.
        
           | crocodiletears wrote:
           | The anger stems from the exhaustion of having to opt out of
           | yet another decision a megacorporation has unilaterally made
           | to explicitly manipulate, correct, or badger you about your
           | personal behaviors.
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | How many offending features do you think is too many to
           | reasonably expect people to have to turn off?
        
         | bena wrote:
         | Yeah. When I saw the link title I was wondering what half-baked
         | clout chasing blogger was trying to stir the shit for clicks.
         | 
         | When I saw it was Petzold, I was just flat out shocked. This is
         | _the_ guy when it comes to developing for Windows. He is deep
         | in the Microsoft ecosystem. For him to come out this strongly
         | against a product means it 's probably worse than even that.
        
       | jsnell wrote:
       | This looks like a feature that's existed since last November:
       | https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/articles/introducing-...
        
       | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
       | The content of this short note is just a part of it - more
       | telling is who wrote it.
        
       | bibinou wrote:
       | For context:
       | 
       | > In 1984 I began writing for PC Magazine, which led to a full-
       | time freelance career that included writing for Microsoft Systems
       | Journal and MSDN magazines.
       | 
       | > My book Programming Windows was published in six editions
       | between 1988 and 2012
       | 
       | > In 2014 I began working as a full-time employee for Xamarin
       | (which was acquired in 2016 by Microsoft), where I wrote a book
       | and documentation
        
       | tus89 wrote:
       | Yeah wait until that happens when using windows:
       | 
       | "Computing with Windows 11. Would you like to consider this book
       | "1984"".
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | I'm more upset at the privacy/surveillance implications than the
       | user-facing ad itself. It can't show me lower prices without
       | sending my browsing data to Microsoft, right?
        
       | ChicagoDave wrote:
       | Pretty sure Malwarebytes blocks all the nonsense, but I should
       | probably test this. If anyone else has already tested it, let us
       | know.
        
         | stordoff wrote:
         | Incidentally, MalwareBytes is currently blocking the article
         | for me:
         | 
         | > Website blocked due to a Trojan
         | 
         | > Your Malwarebytes Premium blocked this website because it may
         | contain a Trojan.
         | 
         | > We strongly recommend you do not continue.
         | 
         | I'm not sure why, though apparently a similar block was
         | supposed to be removed in October 2019:
         | https://forums.malwarebytes.com/topic/252675-site-blocked-ww...
        
       | tssva wrote:
       | Turn off the feature?
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | How exactly? He didn't even know the "feature" existed in the
         | first place, how should he know how to turn it off?
        
           | thrill wrote:
           | If only there was some way to find information on the
           | internet.
        
             | craftinator wrote:
             | Ah, the classic "unwanted feature that you have to waste
             | your time trolling the internet in hopes of finding an way
             | to turn it off that wasn't changed in the last forced
             | unwanted update"! I bill at $60 an hour, to whom do I send
             | the invoice?
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | I'm sure a man with Charles Petzolds intellect and computing
           | experience can easily find the setting to disable the feature
           | on the Privacy, search and service section of Edge's settings
           | It took me less than 30 seconds to find it.
        
         | boudin wrote:
         | By feature you mean what would have been called a malware once,
         | the only difference is that instead of being a crap plugin
         | installed by mistake in IE it is now pushed by microsoft
         | itself?
        
         | ub99 wrote:
         | At best this "feature" should be opt in.
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | The entire "Edge" browser is opt-in .... as long as you
           | manage to ignore the repeated prompts to install it and set
           | it as default that appear every 3 days....
        
             | kktkti9 wrote:
             | Windows is opt-in
        
       | GoodJokes wrote:
       | Yikes, how fragile and easily offended do you have to be to write
       | something like this.
        
       | banana_giraffe wrote:
       | You can go to settings, search for shopping, and turn off "Save
       | time and money with Shopping in Microsoft Edge"
       | 
       | Couldn't get it to trigger for any Petzold books, which just
       | makes me wonder what items it has in its database.
        
       | pxi wrote:
       | Hey Charles, thank you for your wonderful book. "Programming
       | Windows 3.1". I read every page and it was a great kick start to
       | becoming a working programmer. Not sure if I should mention, I
       | ditched Windows for Linux when XP came out :)
        
       | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
       | Someone asked why ppl use edge. Here is my reason:
       | 
       | I use edge for work stuff
       | 
       | I keep chrome use for gmail and personal projects only. Very
       | limited use cases
       | 
       | Ff for general browsing, on full privacy mode and js blocked.
       | This breaks most work sites so i cant use ff for work.
       | 
       | Opera for slack and some saas access.
       | 
       | Also using vivaldi and brave for things like proton, banking
       | websites, linkedin. Everything is contained.
        
       | cupcake-unicorn wrote:
       | Windows has just become completely invasive and has been going
       | down that path for a long time. I use Linux at home but help
       | seniors and others in town with tech stuff. The problems they're
       | running into aren't even simple problems, they're manufactured
       | problems by the Office suite and Windows adding confusing and
       | unneeded features like this. For that population in particular
       | that stuff seems so predatory.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | I miss the days when software basically did what it was told (by
       | the user, not the author) and didn't spam you with adverts (also
       | known as "recommendations" now), smarmy cutesy messages, or
       | otherwise get in your way of doing things.
       | 
       | Browsers are probably one of the worst offenders. Edge is not far
       | from Chrome, and although Firefox is probably the sanest, it also
       | has a disturbingly small marketshare and seems to be going down
       | the same path.
       | 
       | When I use "modern" software, I don't feel like a user; I feel
       | like I'm being used.
        
         | techsupporter wrote:
         | > and didn't spam you with adverts (also known as
         | "recommendations" now), smarmy cutesy messages
         | 
         | And frame every opt-out choice as "YES I LOVE THIS AND WANT IT
         | TURNED ON FOREVER AND EVER AND NEVER SHOW ME THIS PROMPT EVER
         | AGAIN" versus " _sigh_ fine I guess I don 't want it FOR NOW
         | but please make certain to ask me about it nine more times a
         | day for the rest of infinity."
         | 
         | Even the "good" apps like Signal do this.
         | 
         | "Sync your contacts?"
         | 
         | Not now.
         | 
         | "OK we'll ask again later."
        
       | darepublic wrote:
       | Holy shit this makes the blood boil. Directing people away from
       | an independent retailer to Walmart?
        
         | worik wrote:
         | Surprised, though?
        
         | illnewsthat wrote:
         | Would you have had a different reaction if the author was on
         | Walmart and Edge surfaced a link to a cheaper product at an
         | independent retailer?
        
           | darepublic wrote:
           | Yes I think that is relevant. Mostly though it isn't about
           | the specific recommendation, my beef is with the repurposing
           | of what were formerly tools meant to be wielded by human
           | intent into a conduit for big corp to implement its own
           | schemes while ostensibly serving the user.
        
         | vitorgrs wrote:
         | Directing to someone who has a lower price.
        
       | octos4murai wrote:
       | > The assumption that I need help buying a book is the biggest
       | insult...
       | 
       | Insult is too strong a word. Like many here, I think something
       | like this should be opt-in. But I also think the same about
       | "smart recommendations" that try to auto-complete a word I'm
       | typing or add something to my calendar based on recent emails.
       | 
       | I dislike them all and want them all to be opt-in. I think it's
       | predatory by design -- but why anyone would be "insulted" is
       | beyond me.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | Although "biggest insult" is over the top, its part of a
         | pattern of Microsoft providing annoying "help" that makes their
         | software distracting and harder to use, and in aggregate really
         | does insult the user.
         | 
         | Opening documents in some weird "reading mode", popping up that
         | I can pick up where I left off every time I open a PowerPoint,
         | adding captions to my photos I add to documents (and sending my
         | confidential data to their servers so their ML can tell me that
         | a chart I added is a picture of a chart), "looks like you're
         | trying to write a resume", I'll denote my three points (a),
         | (b), and (c), how would you rate our product, etc etc.
         | 
         | Some people may want this stuff, I want my computer to leave me
         | alone and let me work. MS has a pattern of disrespect to the
         | user that overall I agree is insulting.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Being insulted is indeed the right feeling if you still have a
         | sense of personal agency left.
        
         | Rapzid wrote:
         | I'm honestly not sure what is or isn't opt-in on Windows at
         | this point. It frequently asks you after updates to enable a
         | bunch of stuff, but I just say no to everything and hardly
         | anything stands out to me.
         | 
         | It wouldn't surprise me if Windows asks about product
         | suggestions or shopping enhancements(or something along those
         | lines) at some point and that drives this functionality.
         | 
         | EDIT: I don't usually use Edge so I just tried this and I
         | received the lower price notice but not as the author
         | describes. I got a little notice on the right side of the
         | address bar that collapsed about 3 seconds later into the tag
         | icon. I had to click on that icon to get the popup with the
         | shopping details.
        
       | xen2xen1 wrote:
       | I've yet to see anyone mention that Edge seems to love sending
       | you to search the second the URL you type in isn't exactly right.
       | Chrome seems to try to get the URL to work, MS just sends you to
       | Bing. Waiting to see it called anti-competitive.
        
       | literallyaduck wrote:
       | 1. You are using a browser you didn't buy.
       | 
       | 2. Microsoft is targeting the mass consumers who are price
       | driven.
       | 
       | 3. It is creepy they are monitoring your traffic and making
       | suggestions.
       | 
       | 4. Edge is standing on the shoulders of the chrome giants.
       | 
       | 5. Screw Edge.
        
         | xdrosenheim wrote:
         | Edge comes with a paid OS, right? So in a sense, you did buy
         | it.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | Many Windows 10 users didn't pay for it. It was shoved down
           | their throats against their will as an "important security
           | update" to Windows 7 or Windows 8.
        
           | craftinator wrote:
           | And because it's from Microsoft, you're going to keep paying
           | for it, over and over again!
           | 
           | Windows update? That's gonna cost you an hour. Update got
           | botched? 2 hours, and all of your browser settings. Registry
           | corrupted?!? 3 hours for backup and reinstall! Can't figure
           | out how to change a setting, because the option used to be
           | there, then disappeared in the last update? 1 hour searching
           | SO, 1 hour crying.
        
             | midasuni wrote:
             | I don't know if that's still the case as I haven't used
             | windows for 20 years, certainly sounds like windows 98.
             | 
             | However it's your choice in this day and age to use
             | windows.
        
           | vitorgrs wrote:
           | You can install on Linux and macOS.
        
         | falcolas wrote:
         | I'm not aware of a browser I can buy.
         | 
         | To be even more specific - a browser that I can buy and get a
         | guarantee that they will not turn me into a product later, when
         | they're offered lots of money to do so.
        
           | shuckles wrote:
           | Sounds like a business opportunity! Does Mighty, the
           | commercialized, virtualized Chromium distribution do this
           | stuff?
        
             | SahAssar wrote:
             | mighty is selling something completely different with a
             | whole other level of lock-in.
        
       | JasonFruit wrote:
       | I think the bigger problem with this is that Edge doesn't present
       | the content the retailer provided and the user requested;
       | instead, it presents, unasked, what it _hopes_ the user might
       | prefer. The browser is not acting as a medium between the user
       | and retailer, but is imposing on both. I 'd have a lot less
       | problem with a [whatever]bar button that you could click and see
       | other offers for the same item. The former is frustrating and
       | insulting; the latter is not: it's no longer an interruption if
       | the user _asks_ for the information instead of having the browser
       | push it in their face.
        
       | geswit2x wrote:
       | people these days are highly sensitive?
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-08 23:01 UTC)