[HN Gopher] 30 years on from introducing the Web to the World
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       30 years on from introducing the Web to the World
        
       Author : telesilla
       Score  : 216 points
       Date   : 2021-08-08 16:18 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.w3.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.w3.org)
        
       | tannhaeuser wrote:
       | Yeah congrats to TBL and his baby. Actually, I believe the date
       | is slightly off, and it should be August, 6th, according to the
       | fist website [1], and in particular [2] linked from there.
       | 
       | But I've got to ask what has W3C done lately? I mean JavaScript
       | and CSS is not their fault, but looking at W3C's accomplishments,
       | they were busy with XML and WS-* (SOAP), then RDF/Sparql, and
       | whatnot most of the time, creating a cottage industry of
       | "enterprise" standards but completely loosing relevance on the
       | web. Meanwhile, HTML stagnated, and CSS had to become the way
       | overcomplicated beast it is today to make up for HTML's
       | shortcomings, HTML still mostly being the casual academic
       | publishing markup language it always was.
       | 
       | The result is the monopolistic browser landscape we have today
       | and web authoring becoming unapproachable for all but an
       | entrenched profession of "web developers" when the web was
       | primarily a medium for easy self-publishing. Soon, Google
       | implanted itself as the middle man, when getting rid of
       | publishers and closed networks was the whole point of the web in
       | the first place. Meanwhile, W3C continues to take money for
       | driving CSS complexity ad absurdum (though they have talented
       | people on the CSS WG for sure) and drops requirements for at
       | least two interworking implementations for their XML stuff (such
       | as XSLT). Basically, W3C is acting like a self-serving, pay-as-
       | you org for advertising stuff as "standard". W3C's HTML 5 and SVG
       | efforts have effectively stopped about three years ago.
       | 
       | Today, almost nobody is inspired to make websites; even
       | developers flock to github and other centralized services for
       | their stuff.
       | 
       | As much as I believe TBL acted in good faith, I think W3C as a
       | standardization organization failed on all accounts that you
       | could reasonably expect from a standardization effort.
       | 
       | [1]: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
       | 
       | [2]: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/History.html
       | 
       | Edit: see also [3] for the proper date
       | 
       | [3]: https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/1991/08/art-6484.txt
        
       | BrianOnHN wrote:
       | Melancholy. So young but so old. Wandering without direction.
       | Waking up. Will there be a spinoff? Something to bring meaning?
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | The previous Kondratiev cycles were:
         | 
         | - Steam engine (1825)
         | 
         | - Electrical engineering and chemistry (1913)
         | 
         | - Automobile (1950)
         | 
         | - Computers... and even that could be split between the
         | database era (1980), the web era (2000), and the AI era
         | (2030?).
         | 
         | For each cycle, it starts like wild competition, and ends with
         | installed actors. Who would think of being the small guy who
         | topples Ford by reinventing automobile today? No-one.
         | 
         | There is no going back: Automobile has no "meaning", just
         | usages. All of this just makes society go faster. The only
         | meaning in life is participating to the economy, family, and
         | raising people from poverty.
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | Computers: scientific computing era (1950), business
           | computing era (1960), personal computing era (1980), web era
           | (1995), mobile computing era (2005), social networking era
           | (2010), ML/AI era (2020)
        
       | laurent92 wrote:
       | I'm more impressed that the first smartphone is only 14 years old
       | and it has changed so much to our lives:
       | 
       | - First, it developed the usage of superficial socialization
       | (lifestyle show-off, body photos, up to lewd behaviors or
       | prostitution, depression for a lot of people, massive societal
       | dopamine addiction),
       | 
       | - Second, Youtube was the world wild web of all politics and
       | militant movements,
       | 
       | - We're in a third phase where most of it is under control, not
       | tight but clearly guided, with many people doubting the accuracy
       | of both sides. The phase of defiance.
       | 
       | 3 phases (in my opinion) in just a few years, each of them
       | responsible for negative societal shifts (from democratized
       | prostitution to the invasion of Congress), and also positive ones
       | (tech progress, political progress too, to be honest). Who knows
       | what's next?
        
         | gremloni wrote:
         | I don't believe democratized prostitution is a negative thing.
         | If anything countries like the US would have far fewer
         | criminals and desperate incels if we just legalized it.
        
         | cm2187 wrote:
         | I think smartphones might be a bit older than that. I remember
         | using some phones in 2003 that already had a basic internet
         | connection (wap), camera, and on which you could check your
         | emails. The first versions of a blackberry that could do emails
         | was 1999 I think. And PalmPilots in 1997. The iphone was just a
         | cooler and more powerful toy.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Blackberry and Treo from the early 2000s certainly gave you
           | "easy to access" email and some limited browsing. The iPhone
           | by the late 2000s though was a very different experience.
           | There was definitely a gen 1 of smartphones and then a gen 2
           | ushered in by the iPhone.
        
             | cm2187 wrote:
             | That's certainly true. But you can say the same of early
             | 1990s www. My point is that the idea of having a
             | multifunction tool in your pocket that could connect to the
             | internet came as early as it was technically possible, long
             | before Apple released the iphone.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Probably predating the web.
               | 
               | I'd be surprised if you couldn't get online with a Poquet
               | PC.
        
           | laurent92 wrote:
           | The Wap, or even the Blackberry, didn't have an impact on
           | society. It just enabled a few more usecases for the owner
           | but not for the group - like carrying your work with you. The
           | iPhone 2007, and moreso in 2010, was an entire leap forward:
           | It enabled dozens of usecases at a time, such as using Maps,
           | online dating with photos and geographical distance, writing
           | reviews of restaurants... and it triggered efforts in the
           | dumbification of UI, which meant it went widespread like
           | wildfire, which was the condition sine qua none for social
           | media to become relevant. None of that would have been
           | possible with the Blackberry, its wrong commercialization
           | tactics and its 52 buttons.
        
             | wott wrote:
             | Yeah, it's a bit like mobile phone didn't have an impact
             | while it was radio phone or during the first years of
             | modern-ish mobile networks; it was de facto reserved for
             | specific professional use and the happy few. It took 10
             | years or more to expand the networks coverage and drop
             | prices, and then only it had a very noticeable public
             | impact.
        
         | adventured wrote:
         | > First, it developed the usage of superficial socialization
         | (lifestyle show-off, body photos, up to lewd behaviors or
         | prostitution, depression for a lot of people, massive societal
         | dopamine addiction),
         | 
         | No, the smartphone did not do that. All it did was amplify some
         | of those aspects of human nature, making them even easier to
         | project; aspects which were already prevalent across
         | essentially all cultures throughout history.
         | 
         | Tabloids, newspapers, magazines, television, radio,
         | photography, automobiles, physical mail, audio recording, the
         | Internet & PCs, books, scrolls, tribal story telling, and on it
         | goes. The smartphone is merely the latest amplifier.
         | 
         | Lifestyle showoff? There has never been a time in which people
         | didn't commonly do that. There will never be a time in which
         | people don't commonly do that. It's a core, fundamental system
         | of human evolution and social structure. It's a competition.
         | Humans never stop competing for survival, competing for
         | position in the pecking order of society, competing to get the
         | best mates, and so on. Very high levels of social
         | superficiality did not begin with the smartphone, it has always
         | been there.
         | 
         | Body photos? Since the first photographs. Drawing & painting
         | eachother before that.
         | 
         | The ancient Romans and Greeks were hyper social, gossiping
         | cats. They could be superficial as all hell. The same was true
         | of the colonial generations in Europe. So were all people
         | throughout all of history and without exception, to the extent
         | they weren't busy trying not to die of deprivation.
         | 
         | The smartphone didn't fundamentally change anything. It
         | amplified, and in some cases simplified, what we were already
         | doing.
        
         | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
         | That comparison - the smartphone being 14 and the web being 30
         | really illustrates what a total warp jump it has all been.
         | 
         | 15 years from boxy home computers connected to each other, to
         | glowing high resolution pocket computer slabs. And then 15
         | years from those slabs being something totally new and
         | revolutionary, to literally 50%* of all humans having them on
         | their person at all times.
         | 
         | The acceleration has definitely come with a _lot_ of
         | turbulence. If this acceleration is exponential, then what 's
         | next is a whole lot more turbulence.
         | 
         | (Edit:*originally wrote 80% - I thought it would be higher at
         | this point!)
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > to literally 80% of all humans having them on their person
           | at all times.
           | 
           | While the number is high, it's not _that_ high (closer to
           | 50%), at least from the sources I could find[1]. Where are
           | you getting the 80% from?
           | 
           | - [1] - https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-
           | in-the-w... - check the references in the bottom for digging
           | deeper
        
             | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
             | Sorry, I didn't fact check or anything, point was just that
             | they're commonplace, routine, cheap etc. Just a number I
             | had in my head for some reason.
        
         | Radim wrote:
         | Allow me to offer an opposing anecdote: smartphone means fuck
         | all to me. It changed nearly nothing in my life. Most of the
         | time I don't even know where my smartphone is (except for car
         | navigation).
         | 
         | Do people really consider smartphones "more impressive" /
         | impactful than the World Wide Web?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Gibbon1 wrote:
           | That computers don't seem to be correlated with productivity
           | improvements is a thing. And also despite the huge valuations
           | of tech companies, their secondary effects on the economy
           | appear to become negative quickly.
           | 
           | That's very much unlike for instance GM in the 1950's. Where
           | GM had a huge valuation. And spawned secondary businesses
           | that themselves had large collective valuations.
        
           | wott wrote:
           | > smartphone means fuck all to me. It changed nearly nothing
           | in my life.
           | 
           | Sure, that's the same to me, I don't even own one. But that's
           | not how the majority feels and acts. And there's been another
           | acceleration in the last 2-3 years, where more business and,
           | worse, official administrative stuff is pushed on the
           | smartphone (as mobile-first).
           | 
           | One fresh anecdote. 2 hours ago, I watched the news, and the
           | presenter was explaining how you didn't actually need to have
           | you Covid Pass on your mobile: "you can have it on paper, on
           | a sheet you know, and then er... you fold it and put it in
           | your pocket, er... like we used to do in ancient times."
           | 
           | "Like we used to do in ancient times", she said. And she felt
           | the need to explain how to carry a stupid paper... (she was
           | that close to tell people how many times they should fold it,
           | and how to unfold it.) At home, we were like WTF? For many
           | people, doing everything and the rest on the smartphone has
           | become not only normal, but the primary way of doing, and the
           | only way of doing they know. Other ways are already being
           | marginalised.
        
             | Radim wrote:
             | I guess you're right. TBH I didn't expect that offering my
             | point of view would unleash such storm of downvotes.
             | 
             | Clearly many people consider their phone not only a useful
             | device, but a _core part of their identity_. To each his
             | own.
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | It's sad you reduced smartphones to their negatives. I did
         | distance myself from social media but here are things I
         | frequently use my smartphone for:
         | 
         | - Long distance calls with Skype. It is possible to do a cheap
         | long distance call in a foreign country by just buying some
         | data credit. People can still reach you through your Skype
         | number. Not possible with a feature phone.
         | 
         | - Browsing the internet while shopping. Sometimes I find a
         | product that I'm suspicious of its quality. I just do a quick
         | Google search. It's possible to do that with a more advanced
         | feature phone but a smartphone usually have more screen estate.
         | 
         | - GPS/Maps. Big one for people living in big cities or while
         | traveling.
         | 
         | - Payments, notes, quick photos, recording some calls, emails,
         | etc...
         | 
         | There are more to smartphones than social revolutions, though
         | I'm sure it played a certain role in shaping the opinion of
         | people and transmitting the news.
         | 
         | And smartphones are out of reach for most governments, and only
         | an AI powered thing can control it (there is just too many
         | users to read all their messages) which won't likely work in
         | the short-term/present or will be irrelevant in the future.
         | 
         | With the further democratization of tech, I wouldn't worry much
         | about control. The area where government have the most control
         | is currency and tariffs (control import/export goods). If they
         | failed to curb crypto-currencies, they have little chance with
         | texts/news.
        
         | iratewizard wrote:
         | I wonder about correlation vs causation. Before the internet
         | existed, many people recognized that America was a declining
         | empire. Advisors to presidents recommended bad courses of
         | action - like aligning ourselves with the rising empire of
         | China - which have only accelerated the decline. The internet
         | is the reflecting pool that shows us what our age of decadence
         | / Weimar republic / kali yuga looks like.
        
       | devchix wrote:
       | I was looking for an old video of Tom Brokaw interviewing Gates
       | and Schmidt, and found this. For a little laugh and innocent
       | nostalgia: _Flashback! The Internet In 1995_
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-yZ-31j9A
       | 
       | I watched that clip and my inner monologue was all "Oh my sweet
       | summer child, what do _you_ know of  'The Internet'? "
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | vr46 wrote:
       | Personal observation: heck I'm old.
       | 
       | General observation: this is the most brilliant invention of my
       | lifetime, and has realized the information revolution, enabled
       | countless humans to teach themselves and each other, and shown us
       | a myriad of truths about ourselves.
       | 
       | A++
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | The WWW was pretty great at age 10, but took a wrong turn in its
       | teen years.
       | 
       | We now do signal amplification of the worst of humanity. The
       | giants are walled gardens, and in another 10-15 years the "web"
       | will be subsumed by Facebook, and Google's
       | "Cromification/AMPlification" (content lives on their servers and
       | there is no URL bar.)
       | 
       | We've destroyed much of the quirkiness and novelty.
       | 
       | Now instead of sharing content and news p2p, it flows from
       | centralized behemoths that choose for us. RIP personal websites,
       | RSS, IRC, and bittorrent. They still exist, just as shells of
       | their former lives. Their promise sucked away.
       | 
       | It's not like the rest of tech fared much better. You can't even
       | run your own software on half of the devices out there now. Or
       | replace their batteries. Or trust them not to spy on you.
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | > We've destroyed much of the quirkiness and novelty.
         | 
         | Yawn. People say this over and over again. It hasn't been
         | destroyed. It's just not at the top of your search results.
         | 
         | Within the last week, HN's front page had a link to this little
         | gem:
         | http://www.redwoodworld.co.uk/locations.htm
         | 
         | ... a catalog of every (?) redwood tree in the British Isles,
         | lovingly maintained and deliciously retro. How can you believe
         | that the quirky and novel have been destroyed when sites like
         | this (and there are millions more) are still out there?
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | While it may not be destroyed, the reward gradients changed.
           | 
           | I'm not imagining a world where technology froze in place,
           | rather a different evolutionary path.
           | 
           | The incentive structures today produce a massive amount of
           | negative externalities that we're nowhere close to
           | addressing.
        
         | codegeek wrote:
         | I would focus on the overall positives at least in this thread.
         | Yes there are lot of valid criticisms but that is more on the
         | companies and not WWW in itself. WWW is Free, Open and you can
         | do anything you want with it even today. You mention personal
         | websites. No one is stopping you from getting a cheap server
         | and setting up your personal website. In fact, I would argue it
         | is has become easier to do that with so many cheap and reliable
         | options (.e.g DigitalOcean, Vultr etc). I run my personal
         | website using WordPress (another great invention) and I am free
         | to host it however I want.
        
           | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
           | UMW in Fredricksburg, Virginia has a program called "Domain
           | of One's Own" where you get set up with a personal site at a
           | domain of your choosing, available to every student and
           | everyone on staff.
           | 
           | https://umw.domains
        
         | goalieca wrote:
         | The technology is just too tempting for totalitarians and
         | tyrants of all degrees. It feels like humanity itself is in
         | some sort of societal infancy.
        
         | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
         | > The WWW was pretty great [...] We now do signal amplification
         | of the worst of humanity
         | 
         | Aren't non-Web ("anti-Web"?) platforms the greatest driver of
         | this?
         | 
         | You mention IRC and bittorrent. Nothing really Web about those,
         | either.
         | 
         | Are you thinking of WWW and The Internet as being
         | interchangeable terms?
         | 
         | Isn't this just a generic and vague luddite-doomer rant?
        
       | codegeek wrote:
       | "What happens in an Internet Minute in 2020, for example:
       | 
       | - Zoom hosts 208,333 meetings
       | 
       | - There are 404,444 Netflix user streams
       | 
       | - YouTube users upload 500 hours of video
       | 
       | - Consumers spend $1,000,000 online
       | 
       | - 1,388,889 people make video/voice calls"
       | 
       | Mind blowing if you think about it. I really want to focus on the
       | positives of WWW in this thread. I, like million others, am
       | making a living out of WWW and that itself is so amazing. Thank
       | you Tim Berners-Lee and everyone else who made this happen. A
       | remarkable Invention for the human kind.
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | No pedantic comment complaining, that the internet is older and
         | not the same as the WWW? Well, then I am doing it ...
         | 
         | So someone using youtube might be using the www, but is not
         | when using the android app for example. Etc. blabla.
         | 
         | And yes, the WWW is awesome, even though the spec is a wild
         | chaos.
        
         | akudha wrote:
         | These are all eye popping numbers. Somehow the YouTube number
         | is scarier than others. With _that_ much content, how is anyone
         | supposed to find what they are interested in? No wonder
         | YouTube's algorithm is so bad. Even google can't do a good job
         | of search and recommendation at YouTube
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | I'd be curious to know how many combined page loads there are
         | for PornHub (and cousins) per minute. It's just as much a part
         | of what the web is today as any of the services listed above.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | Pornhub is very open about its metrics:
           | https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2019-year-in-review
        
         | lucasverra wrote:
         | I stopped being impressed by "one minute in the Internets" a
         | couple of years ago. I mean, internet is at hands distance of
         | many people now.
         | 
         | As beer and toilet paper. Let's move to more significant
         | metrics like people making a living out of it, value
         | transferred or something else :)
        
       | barosl wrote:
       | It makes me feel strange to think that all these industries, all
       | these jobs, and all these companies didn't exist just 30 years
       | ago. Nowadays everyone says the web. It seems very hard to
       | predict what technology will be dominant in another 30 years. It
       | is fortunate that I will probably still live by then to witness
       | the future.
       | 
       | Anyway, congratulations to the web.
        
         | legrande wrote:
         | > It seems very hard to predict what technology will be
         | dominant in another 30 years
         | 
         | The web seems to have bootstrapped entire industries who rely
         | on its infra to operate. This will be the same story in the
         | next 20 years. The web is the foundation, the innovation you
         | will see, will piggyback on top of it, unless something else
         | serves as the underlying basis ( _cough_ blockchain).
        
       | beders wrote:
       | And we still can't get complex forms right.
        
       | johnwheeler wrote:
       | If you were around at the beginning of the boom and had an AOL,
       | Juno, or Prodigy account; eventually gave NetZero a try; watched
       | Hackers and even The Net, know what a .nfo file is, marveled at
       | Napster; collected Winamp skins; signed up to have DVDs delivered
       | to your mailbox; and when Internet, Information super-highway,
       | World Wide Web, and cyberspace were used interchangeably, you're
       | one of the lucky ones. I love the Internet for all it is now, but
       | man do I miss the wonder it instilled in its nascency.
        
       | NmAmDa wrote:
       | Imagine that the early purpose was just to allow physicists
       | working in big collaboration to work together from different
       | places and handle data more easily. Who could guess that any of
       | that will happen as a byproduct.
        
       | struct wrote:
       | It's great that the web is so durable and long-lived, but I
       | wonder about the health of it - it's got so complicated that
       | we're down to only three implementations (Firefox, Chromium,
       | WebKit), no realistic possibility of a new engine emerging, and
       | essentially one implementation defining the standard. I wonder
       | where we'll be in another 30 years?
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | This is the greatest crime against the web, IMO.
         | 
         | The growing complexity for the past decade has been driven
         | almost entirely by Google. I'm now pretty convinced they did it
         | as a part of an explicit strategy.
         | 
         | It's so insidious - on the one hand they are improving the web,
         | on the other hand, the complexity they are driving makes the
         | web more vulnerable.
        
         | JiNCMG wrote:
         | It's always like this until the next new thing. The big guys
         | will control everything until something new comes around that
         | they don't want to implement. It will be a bit harder because
         | you have the Web Browser which is a lot flexible than the old
         | AOL Clients. Also WebKit is available publicly for any one to
         | fork and create a new service.
         | 
         | When modems were available for residential use, BBSes were the
         | gateway and slowly were killed by the big guys (AOL, Compuserve
         | and Prodigy) but what these big guys refused to do is work
         | together to allow further communications with people outside of
         | their networks.
         | 
         | It took kids coming out of college and wanting to keep their
         | internet access for email, ftp, talk, usenet, gopher and http.
         | They started to partner with universities and offer TCP/IP
         | (over PPP) access for $20. Local BBS started to open gateways
         | to allow it's users to send/receive SMTP emails. By the time
         | the big guys realized they were at a disadvantage, they started
         | to offer communications between AOL, Compuserve and Prodigy, At
         | first charging their users extra fees, some plans made it like
         | SMS and were charging per message. Eventually users where just
         | using their clients to get to the internet and that service
         | dies. Most of those small internet providers were purchased by
         | bigger companies.
         | 
         | What will need to change now to kick the big guys (Verizon,
         | Google, Apple, etc...) in the balls again? The tech is so
         | regulated that I doubt we will see anything new as far and
         | networking. In NYC WiMax was hobbled by the communication
         | companies like Verizon TimeWarner and RCN.
        
       | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
       | Does anyone know if there is a URL for Tim Berners-Lee's book
       | "Weaving the Web", where it is accessible over HTTP? Not even
       | talking about gratis open access, just whether or not the Web-of-
       | documents vision is actually in practice for TimBL's book itself.
       | Also not talking about a link to a storefront that sells it, or a
       | promo site, or a faithfully reproduced but non-canonical link to
       | a warez'd copy. Specifically asking here whether the book has a
       | URL. This seems like a pretty basic OKR for grading progress of
       | the Web vision, and yet it seems reasonable to think the answer
       | is "no", which is incredibly ironic (but not shocking).
       | 
       | It _was_ surprising just now to find that there is not even a
       | preview on Google Books, nor are you allowed to search inside it.
        
         | bmn__ wrote:
         | To the exact questions you asked, the answer is mu because of
         | <https://www.w3.org/TR/uri-clarification/>.
         | 
         | Correcting for the intention: yes, books are easy to identify!
         | <https://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-formal/isbn> You also
         | want to able to dereference. I edited my DOM copy of your
         | comment to add the hyperlink <a href="urn:isbn:9780062515872">
         | to the book's name, then clicked it. Firefox prompted me to
         | pick a local executable. ISTR Netscape used to handle this a
         | bit more gracefully. It is perfectly okay that not every UA
         | implements every conceivable scheme, the particularities of the
         | failure do not diminish the idea of the Web.
         | 
         | I happen to know archivists and librarians. They use
         | specialised information systems that are not part of the Web.
         | There does not seem to be an urgent need to uplift the legacy.
         | 
         | IMO the grade is not "no", but "the foundations are there ready
         | to be built upon".
        
         | mattl wrote:
         | https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Weaving/
         | 
         | It's not great
        
           | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
           | That's very obviously not a URL for the book. That's a URL
           | for a promo site, i.e., one of the things explicitly listed
           | as something not to reply with, since it's not an answer to
           | the question being asked.
           | 
           | " _Specifically asking here whether the book has a URL._ "
           | 
           | (Being a promo site, it is a place where we should _expect_
           | the URL to be linked to, if it existed, but there is no such
           | URL to be found on that page, hence the question...)
        
             | mattl wrote:
             | It's the URL printed in the book.
        
               | pwdisswordfish0 wrote:
               | Do you understand the relationship between questions and
               | answers? You're answering a question no one asked. Why
               | bother responding at all?
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | The book has a URL. You seem to want something else.
               | 
               | Stop being an obtuse prick :)
        
       | 14 wrote:
       | To me the internet means an access to information not seen by
       | previous generations. I've learned a lot of backyard mechanics
       | from my dad. But I have since gone on to achieve a lot more in
       | that field by having access to YouTube or other forums where I
       | can find detailed instructions on how to fix things. I think
       | about hacking my Xbox 360 and jailbreaking my first iPhone when I
       | realized the jailbroken phones could video record and stock
       | iPhones could not. I met my first wife online. I was there in the
       | beginning when pictures would slowly load from the top down
       | because speeds were just that slow. The stuff you can do now over
       | the internet is beyond imagination from a couple decades ago.
        
       | rvense wrote:
       | I clearly remember when I first saw the www, a few years into its
       | life, at a meeting in the Mac users group my dad was a part of,
       | probably at a university department or similar that had internet
       | access.
       | 
       | I thought it was one of the dullest things I'd ever seen anyone
       | do with a computer, and I didn't at all understand what was so
       | interesting about this Netscape programme. I must have been about
       | ten.
       | 
       | I did grow to find it exciting for a few a years, my misspent
       | youth on instant messenger and bulletin boards, learning,
       | flamewars and a few friendships that last to this days... but as
       | I approach 40 and the damn thing has both turned into my full-
       | time job, and become corporate shadow of its old self, something
       | out of a bad old depressing cyperpunk novel, I do sometimes think
       | my initial reaction was closer to the right one.
        
         | prpl wrote:
         | I remember one of the first things I wanted to actually see on
         | the web was the Orbitz (drink) website (96/97?), although I
         | remember seeing yahoo ~two years before in elementary school.
         | 
         | I vaguely remember it actually being orbitz.com.
        
       | flenserboy wrote:
       | A guy I went to college with was there for the birth of the web.
       | I remember him coming back that Fall, and him showing me, on one
       | of our campus NeXTs, this new "World Wide Web" thing. "Cool, I
       | guess. It's like Hypercard," I said, "but not as capable -- but
       | it _is_ networked...so how is this better than Gopher? What 's
       | the use case?" "Just wait," he replied, "you can't build on
       | Gopher like you can on this." Times changed quickly.
        
         | _red wrote:
         | >our campus NeXTs, this new "World Wide Web" thing
         | 
         | Similar story. My lab had 2 NeXT cubes (the monochrome version)
         | and the first time I saw a graphical browser was eye-opening. I
         | had only experienced telnet and gopher before that...
         | 
         | I think this was probably '92-93 - like 3 years before Windows
         | 95 even existed. This experience is what pushed me headlong
         | into the nascent Linux, as the idea of going from NeXT to
         | Windows 95 was like moving from a Ferrari to a tricycle. Linux
         | was no Ferrari but it was at least a pickup truck....
        
       | SavantIdiot wrote:
       | I remember the first time someone fired up Mosaic on a Sun
       | workstation at work. At first the only pages were alma mater
       | pages because no one had an IT department that knew how to set up
       | a webserver yet. It didn't really dawn on me until people started
       | putting up lyric pages for bands, and the speed at which you
       | could access the data via _links_. I had been using FTP (and
       | archie and gopher) up to that point, which involved a lot of
       | typing and taking notes, and hyperlinks /bookmarks were light-
       | years easier. That was the lightbulb for me.
        
       | analog31 wrote:
       | Amusing anecdote: The computer that hosted the original WWW is in
       | a little museum at CERN, open to the public. When my family saw
       | it several years ago, it still had a hand written note taped to
       | the side of it, something to the effect of "Please don't turn
       | this computer off."
       | 
       | It still amuses me to think that at one point, the entire WWW
       | depended on someone remembering to not shut it down.
       | 
       | Edit: See below. Reality is much more accurate than my memory.
       | ;-)
        
         | codegeek wrote:
         | It said "This machine is a server". Isn't that still true for
         | any server ? I mean if you power off a server, it stops
         | serving. I guess the what makes that note truly unique is that
         | it was THE only server at that time ?
        
           | anyfoo wrote:
           | I guess it just means "even though this machine looks like a
           | desktop computer (which it very much usually was as a NeXT
           | station), it's actually acting as a server, so please don't
           | shut it down like you would with a desktop machine".
           | 
           | It by far wasn't the only "server" at that time. The WWW may
           | be 30 years old, but the Internet is much older.
        
             | codegeek wrote:
             | correct. I mean the only server for WWW ?
        
               | analog31 wrote:
               | Yes, I believe it was. One machine had to be the first
               | www server.
        
         | mattl wrote:
         | https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/104/298158460_5495a9443c.jpg
        
         | Gradient-Ascent wrote:
         | > still had a hand written note taped to the side of it,
         | something to the effect of "Please don't turn this computer
         | off."
         | 
         | You sound like "nobody has cleaned this piece of paper off
         | [yet]" or "will be cleaned of soon". But it is the central
         | piece of the exhibit, very intentionally. Probably written by
         | TBL himself and illustrating a feature of the new invention:
         | "The internet is always on"
         | 
         | And I heard of this before, that TBL developed the WWW on a
         | (NEXT-) _workstation_ , which also was the first www-server
         | with a sticker on it that said "This machine is a server. DO
         | NOT POWER DOWN!" (https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Thi
         | s_Machine_is_a_...)
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | Mixed emotions.
       | 
       | In many ways, it has been a true marvel, and so much good has
       | come from it.
       | 
       | In other ways, it has given us a proctoscope view of the human
       | Id.
       | 
       | https://c.tenor.com/97Iru0enngsAAAAM/yay.gif
        
       | heresie-dabord wrote:
       | > Our vision is for a World Wide Web that is more inclusive, and
       | more respectful of its users: a Web that supports truth better
       | than falsehood, people more than profits, humanity rather than
       | hate.
       | 
       | I support the principles, but I can't give the real
       | implementation a passing grade.
        
         | tehjoker wrote:
         | It's popular for liberals to say things like "truth better than
         | falsehood" but they really mean that they want to be able to
         | control what other people read. Only half of what they think is
         | true at a given time actually is.
         | 
         | The other half of the equation is that the more well monied get
         | their message out better than the unmonied. You can't use
         | technology to fix that. Most of the conspiracies we deplore are
         | advanced by idiots with money.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | > It's popular for liberals to say things like "truth better
           | than falsehood" but they really mean that they want to be
           | able to control what other people read.
           | 
           | Can you conceive of a world, or even just one person, who
           | could say "truth better than falsehood" and actually mean it?
           | 
           | > The other half of the equation is that the more well monied
           | get their message out better than the unmonied.
           | 
           | There's a mixed record on this, really. Yes, massive but
           | subtle spending can result in deep and wide dispersion of a
           | "message". But then there's Rebecca Black and "Friday", too.
        
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