[HN Gopher] Show HN: Agora: Sell Files on the Web
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       Show HN: Agora: Sell Files on the Web
        
       Author : rodarmor
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2021-08-06 20:16 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (agora.download)
 (TXT) w3m dump (agora.download)
        
       | sdan wrote:
       | So like Gumroad but with crypto payments?
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Very much so! Plus it's open source and anyone can run an
         | instance.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | altilunium wrote:
         | Yes. Bitcoin, specifically.
        
         | akomtu wrote:
         | This brazen simplicity is what makes it look like the next
         | Dropbox.
        
       | altilunium wrote:
       | "Received Payment
       | 
       | A welcome gift! Thanks for trying HTLC.me!
       | 
       | 0.00313370 tBTC ($140.06 tUSD)"
       | 
       | What is the difference between USD and tUSD?
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | HTLC.me is a testnet Lightning wallet, so the balances are in
         | tBTC, testnet bitcoin. tUSD isn't a real thing, it just means
         | that if your balance was in BTC and not tBTC, you would have
         | that much USD.
        
           | altilunium wrote:
           | Let's say i want to test it by using real BTC. How can i do
           | it? The real lightning wallet.
        
             | rodarmor wrote:
             | The most convenient Lightning Wallet is probably Wallet of
             | Satoshi, which you can find on the Apple or Android app
             | stores. Once you download it, you can fund it with an on-
             | chain transaction. Once you have funds in the wallet, you
             | should be able to pay for invoices at agora.download.
        
               | altilunium wrote:
               | Have you tested it by using real BTC?
               | 
               | I just read from lnd's documentation (here : https://gith
               | ub.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/saf...) that
               | "As of this writing , lnd is still in beta and it is
               | considered #reckless to put any life altering amounts of
               | BTC into the network.
               | 
               | Are you sure that agora is really safe?
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | We have tested it using real BTC, so far so good! LND is
               | definitely still in beta, and the Lightning Network
               | itself is still in its infancy, so it's a good idea not
               | to have too much funds in an LND wallet.
               | 
               | We're try to be very careful when developing Agora, and
               | all features are covered by unit and integration tests.
               | However, bugs are always a possibility.
        
               | altilunium wrote:
               | Also, when we want to self-host our own Agora instance.
               | Should we run our own LND instance, or can we just
               | connect it to any pre-existing LND instance? Do you have
               | any recommendation, which LND instance that is "good" and
               | "trusted"?
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | If you connected an Agora instance to an LND instance,
               | you would have to trust the person who ran that instance,
               | since they would be in control of funds from payments, so
               | I think the best idea is to run your own LND instance.
        
               | altilunium wrote:
               | I think i should learn more about LND first. I've
               | downloaded the LND's docker image. Then i tried to run
               | the example commands, but it still dont work.
               | 
               | "Unable to find image 'myrepository/lnd:latest' locally
               | docker: Error response from daemon: pull access denied
               | for myrepository/lnd, repository does not exist or may
               | require 'docker login': denied: requested access to the
               | resource is denied."
               | 
               | I'm also pretty new to Docker though. So maybe i should
               | learn about Docker first before learning about LND.
               | 
               | Can you tell us how to run our own LND instance and how
               | to connect it to Agora? I think, a step-by-step tutorial
               | would be a great help to us as an Agora user who want to
               | self-host it.
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | It's definitely challenging to set up an LND instance.
               | I'll try to find a good one and link to it from our
               | readme!
        
               | kevkevinpal wrote:
               | If you're trying to set up an lnd instance take a look at
               | raspiblitz it bootstraps the process for you and can be
               | attached to a raspberry pi 4
        
               | altilunium wrote:
               | So,if we want to use Wallet of Satoshi as a preferred
               | lightning wallet for our Agora instance, we should
               | connect our Agora instance to Wallet of Satoshi's LND
               | gRPC server.
               | 
               | Where i can find Wallet of Satoshi's LND gRPC server host
               | and port?
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | Ahh, not quite. I thought you were asking about a wallet
               | for making payments, i.e. for buying content from Agora.
               | 
               | In order to process payments for your Agora instance, you
               | would need to connect it to an LND instance that you ran
               | yourself.
        
       | forgingahead wrote:
       | Fantastic effort - great to see decentralised file downloads with
       | the ability to accept payments. It's a good step towards freeing
       | independent commerce from the increasingly-censorious
       | establishment tech players.
       | 
       | There is certainly potential for negatives, like people self-
       | hosting to sell pirated and other illegal content. However we're
       | at this point because the establishment services have been
       | engaging in worsening behaviour over the past few years.
       | 
       | Good luck and looking forward to seeing this develop.
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Thank you for the kind words!
        
       | jareklupinski wrote:
       | finally, an implementation for error 402: Payment Required !
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | That's potentially very big, but it needs some plumbing. Can you
       | use a Visa card to refill a "lightning network account" or
       | whatever you call it? Can the seller get proceeds to a bank
       | account in $s?
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | It's actually pretty easy to get into and out of Bitcoin.
         | river.com, is a US-based service that allows buying and selling
         | bitcoin with USD, making USD transfers to and from a linked
         | bank account, and making and receiving Lightning Network
         | payments.
         | 
         | So you could set up an LND instance, get inbound liquidity with
         | a service like Bitrefill*, and then withdraw any funds via the
         | Lightning Network to a River account, sell the proceeds for
         | USD, and transfer them to your bank account.
         | 
         | I use River as an example because it's my favorite, but there
         | are many other services that you could also use.
         | 
         | * It's slightly subtle aspect of the Lightning Network, but in
         | order to receive funds, you need inbound liquidity, i.e. a
         | channel with your Lightning Network node with funds on your
         | counterparty's side of the channel. This can be accomplished
         | buy buying inbound liquidity from a service like Bitrefill:
         | https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/lightning-channel/
        
           | Turing_Machine wrote:
           | For those of us who aren't totally up on crypto stuff,
           | liquidity in this sense is basically buffering the money
           | until the final Bitcoin transaction settles? So if you buy,
           | say, 1,000,000 sats from Bitrefill, that means you can only
           | have 1,000,000 sats worth of transactions "in the pipeline",
           | so to speak?
           | 
           | If so, what happens if you do have more than that amount in
           | outstanding transactions? The transactions fail? They hang
           | around and complete after the pipeline empties out?
           | 
           | What if I just want to assume that the customer is good for
           | the money and queue it up myself for settlement once I have
           | the liquidity to spare. Does Agora let me do that?
           | 
           | I apologize if these are dumb questions.
        
       | altilunium wrote:
       | "By default agora serves files for free. To charge for downloads,
       | agora must be connected to an LND instance."
       | https://github.com/agora-org/agora/
       | 
       | "As of this writing, lnd is still in beta and it is considered
       | #reckless to put any life altering amounts of BTC into the
       | network."
       | 
       | https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/saf...
        
       | rodarmor wrote:
       | Agora is a simple web file server that charges for downloads. It
       | uses the Lightning Network for payments. The Lightning Network is
       | a layer on top of Bitcoin that enables fast payments with very
       | low fees. It settles to the Bitcoin network, so there's no
       | separate token or currency.
       | 
       | Agora is released under a maximally permissive license and
       | written in Rust. Currently it integrates with LND for Lightning
       | Payments, so you'll need to also have an LND instance running if
       | you want to charge for downloads.
       | 
       | And if you're interested in using Agora to sell some files,
       | please try it out and let us know what you think! We have lots of
       | ideas for features that we'd like to add, but are much more
       | interested in what users need.
        
         | shiftingleft wrote:
         | what's the advantage of this over existing systems?
        
           | rodarmor wrote:
           | There might be others, but the existing system that comes to
           | mind is Gumroad, a service that allows creators to sell
           | digital content.
           | 
           | Compared to Gumroad, Agora is not subject to censorship and
           | can be self-hosted.
        
           | murple wrote:
           | Losing funds on lightning network can be "advantage"?
           | https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/91211/how-can-
           | so...
        
             | rodarmor wrote:
             | The possibility of losing funds exists, but bugs are
             | something you would expect with any in-development
             | technology. And, existing payment services are not without
             | risk. Getting your account frozen and funds taken is pretty
             | common with PayPal, Square, and other payment providers,
             | which is not possible with the Lightning Network.
        
         | pharmakom wrote:
         | How do you prevent users from selling illegal content? Do you
         | really want to be anywhere near that?
        
           | devops000 wrote:
           | I think this is actually the case.
        
           | rodarmor wrote:
           | We don't host Agora instances, aside from our test instances,
           | so we cannot prevent users from selling illegal content. Any
           | useful technology has the potential for abuse, and Agora is
           | no different.
        
             | danmaz74 wrote:
             | Out of curiosity, did you think about the use case for
             | authorities to deal with people selling forbidden images?
             | I'm sure you already know which kind I'm thinking of.
        
               | caslon wrote:
               | The vast majority of people looking for _that_ are
               | just... regular people. Awful people, yes, but no smarter
               | than your average bear.
               | 
               | There are hundreds of thousands of _those_ images being
               | transmitted fully-encrypted on WhatsApp, a fully-legal
               | multi-billion dollar platform, _every year._ And that 's
               | just what users self-report![1] Why would any crook
               | bother with Agora when they're already using fully-
               | encrypted platforms like WhatsApp? What would be their
               | thought process in switching? It's not like Bitcoin is
               | particularly difficult to track, anyway.
               | 
               | Agora seems completely stupid and pointless, but let's
               | not pretend that they're doing something disastrously
               | morally harmful. More than likely, it's just a platform
               | that will die out in a few months. Best-case scenario, it
               | serves as a honeypot for people with Coinbase accounts
               | that want to break the law. It's actually _easier_ to
               | track than people transmitting these sorts of things over
               | centralized, encrypted platforms.
               | 
               | [1] A tweet by Will Cathcart, who's the corporate head of
               | WhatsApp at Facebook.
               | https://twitter.com/wcathcart/status/1423701475595755524
        
               | danmaz74 wrote:
               | My point is that that use case will very easily attract
               | attention from authorities if it will make it easier to
               | make money with those images.
        
             | pharmakom wrote:
             | This will be an issue for anyone who hosts it. Is there a
             | plan for your users?
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | Can you explain why it will be an issue for anyone who
               | hosts it? The host determines what content is available.
               | Agora does not yet support user uploads.
        
               | pharmakom wrote:
               | My mistake - I thought this was a "filebin"
        
       | aww_dang wrote:
       | NANO payments might be an interesting addition to this project
        
       | axiosgunnar wrote:
       | This could be a self-hosted onlyfans if I understand correctly?
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Definitely!
        
       | altilunium wrote:
       | Cool project. Let's say i want to switch the currency from BTC to
       | BAT. How can i do that?
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Currently, it only integrates with the Lightning Network via
         | LND. You would have to modify it to support BAT. However, BAT
         | would probably not be a good choice. BAT transactions are slow
         | when compared to Lightning Network payments. Also, since BAT is
         | a token on Ethereum, the fees would likely be prohibitive for
         | small, or even medium size payments.
        
       | altilunium wrote:
       | Htlc.me message when i tried to buy your file : Send Payment
       | Failed
       | 
       | Payment failed to send. This can happen due to temporary network
       | connectivity issues or an unexpected server error.
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Thanks for trying it out! Is the failure persistent or does it
         | work when you retry it?
        
           | altilunium wrote:
           | New error message : Payment Problem
           | 
           | You already paid that invoice! Ask them for a new one?
           | 
           | I still cant pass the paywall.
        
             | rodarmor wrote:
             | Are you using the agora.download or test.agora.download? If
             | you're using test.agora.download, are you paying with
             | htlc.me? Can you provide the invoice ID? (It's the
             | hexadecimal string after `/invoice/`.)
        
               | altilunium wrote:
               | I'm using the agora.download. test.agora.download is
               | working fine.
        
               | rodarmor wrote:
               | If you're using htlc.me, that's probably the issue.
               | htlc.me is a testnet wallet, so it can only pay testnet
               | invoices, and agora.download is on mainnet.
        
         | altilunium wrote:
         | I cant send the payment to agora.download, but i can send it to
         | test.agora.download . What's happening?
        
           | rodarmor wrote:
           | Just saw this now, but agora.download is on mainnnet, and
           | test.agora.download is on testnet, so if you're using a
           | testnet wallet, it won't be able to pay the mainnet invoices
           | from agora.download.
        
       | altilunium wrote:
       | Hello, i'm from Altilunium News. I just posted Agora's news
       | coverage on Twitter here :
       | https://twitter.com/altilunium/status/1424256255598600198?s=...
        
         | rodarmor wrote:
         | Nice, thank you!
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-08 23:03 UTC)