[HN Gopher] WeWork Book: The $10T Mirage
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       WeWork Book: The $10T Mirage
        
       Author : elsewhen
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2021-08-07 17:21 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | Doesn't we work still exist? I wouldn't say it is worthless or a
       | total loss just yet.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | My understanding is that it's not the company they're trying to
         | keep alive as much as preventing the devastating effects its
         | closing would have on commercial real estate.
        
           | mcintyre1994 wrote:
           | Are their investors heavily invested in commercial real
           | estate? I'd have thought for most VCs crashing commercial
           | real estate would be a plus for most of their portfolio, but
           | WeWork had some weird investors.
        
             | qeternity wrote:
             | Because capital is fungible, all markets are linked in some
             | form.
             | 
             | A collapse in commercial property would roil all markets,
             | including VC.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Yeah they are in the middle of a SPAC deal!
         | 
         | People just need to catch up to modern methods of making money.
         | 
         | If: interest rate environment = low
         | 
         | Then: act this way
         | 
         | If: interest rate environment = high
         | 
         | Then: act this other way
         | 
         | There is zero utility in worrying about Neumann's actual
         | financial success, the cult-like employees who got burned after
         | segregated themselves from how the entire finance sector was
         | making fun of wework pitches. Softbank want to pump and risk
         | limited partners infinite money, so be it.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | Wasn't more money invested into it at this point than it's
         | current valuation?
        
           | femto113 wrote:
           | A lot more. Current valuation is fuzzy, but the SPAC deal
           | announced earlier this year was publicly putting the
           | valuation at around $9B, and the total cash invested is
           | around $15B, plus there's around $7B in debt (mostly lease
           | obligations). There's also the issue that WeWork is bleeding
           | cash and their revenue has fallen off a cliff. IMO $0 is as
           | plausible a value as any other.
        
         | castwide wrote:
         | Not worthless, but last I heard it was at a $9 billion
         | valuation after receiving around $20 billion in venture
         | capital, so not exactly a success story either.
        
         | suzzer99 wrote:
         | I got a WeWork mask in a FedEx package about a year ago. Such a
         | weird promotion. I have no idea how they got my info as I've
         | never used WeWork or any other coworking space. But I did take
         | a class in one. Maybe that was it.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | lol the shipping cost more than the mask
        
             | suzzer99 wrote:
             | But it got me to open the package! And then free
             | advertising when I wore the mask (which I never did).
             | 
             | Clearly a company with more money to burn than they know
             | what to do with.
             | 
             | Like when Boston Market expanded everywhere - including
             | neighborhoods in SF that had zero other chain
             | restaurants/fast food places. The hubris.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | Yes. WeWork is still alive.
         | 
         | Even better, they are going public via a SPAC. So the CEO won
         | anyway, got their billions and the exit scam still succeeded.
         | Theranos tried to do the same thing but the scam was detected
         | and stopped before they could try to get away with it.
         | 
         | Like many blog posts, this one is just parroting and hyping the
         | _' Cult of We'_ book and telling the story of its failed IPO
         | and overvaluation in 2019.
         | 
         | It would be more interesting if this failed IPO was the start
         | of a gigantic crash, destroyed WeWork and took the tech
         | industry with it.
         | 
         | But given that they are still IPOing and exiting for billions
         | and more overvalued companies are still going through SPACs and
         | IPOs like business as usual; that 'failure' has become ancient
         | history.
        
           | polynomial wrote:
           | Are you saying Neumann got his exit payment? I hadn't seen
           | that story, and speculation was although it was agreed to, he
           | would never see the money.
        
       | briefcomment wrote:
       | I don't know much about Axios, but I thought they tended towards
       | impartial fact-based reporting, and I'm surprised at the
       | emotionally charged language in this article
       | 
       | > "chronicling the wiles and humiliation of Adam Neumann,
       | WeWork's day-drinking co-founder, former CEO, and chief snake-oil
       | salesman"
        
         | fouric wrote:
         | I was also a bit surprised at the language. I _agree_ that
         | Newman is indeed a  "snake-oil salesman", but I don't think
         | that that specific language is appropriate for a news
         | organization.
         | 
         | I recall reading their mission statement a few years ago and
         | getting the impression that they were trying to be impartial
         | and fact-based. However, all of the articles that I've read
         | from them recently (~6 over the past year) have been similarly
         | emotionally charged. Perhaps their vision has changed?
        
           | wussboy wrote:
           | Emotionally charged gets more likes. It is the fundamental
           | problem of social media. You cannot avoid it because you will
           | lose in the competition for attention against an organization
           | that embraces it.
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | While the snake-oil salesman label is a bit too charged, the
         | rest of the sentence is fact-based with just a bit of flourish.
        
           | brink wrote:
           | Emotionally charged doesn't mean false.
        
             | starfallg wrote:
             | I don't understand where this recent obsession about using
             | neutral language in reporting is coming from. Using neutral
             | language doesn't mean unbiased. Very convincing yet very
             | biased pieces can be written in the most neutral language.
        
               | fouric wrote:
               | Emotionally-charged language is another way to create
               | bias. An un-biased article must at _least_ be written in
               | an emotionally neutral tone - necessary, but not
               | sufficient.
        
               | benlivengood wrote:
               | Do we actually want emotionally neutral articles? There's
               | always a value judgement being made about what is
               | important to report. That value judgement will correspond
               | with emotions in most cases, so it's worthwhile to
               | acknowledge that fact as well.
               | 
               | It's fine to describe situations where people lose their
               | lives as "tragedies", for example. It's possible to go
               | overboard by projecting emotions onto the audience that
               | they don't actually have.
        
               | shock-value wrote:
               | > Do we actually want emotionally neutral articles?
               | 
               | If they purport to be objective journalism (and not all
               | articles need be that) then yes, definitely.
               | 
               | Seems that Axios plays a little loose with these
               | guidelines outside of politics (their main wheelhouse). I
               | think it's probably a mistake, to the extent that they
               | are interested in keeping their reputation for good
               | journalism.
        
               | mypalmike wrote:
               | I used to watch a TV news show from DW called European
               | Journal, which I believe no longer exists. The
               | presentation was incredibly neutral. They told the facts,
               | they asked people involved to tell their stories, etc. It
               | was beyond refreshing to hear reporters who were not
               | trying to manipulate me emotionally. But apparently it
               | was not entertaining to a wide enough audience keep the
               | lights on.
        
               | fouric wrote:
               | > Do we actually want emotionally neutral articles?
               | 
               | Yes. Articles written in an emotionally charged way in
               | order to influence their readers are a flavor of
               | brainwashing - telling the reader what to think, or even
               | worse, trying to influence them without their knowledge
               | or consent.
               | 
               | Furthermore, the fact that an individual or organization
               | is trying to emotionally manipulate you _at all_ is a
               | huge red flag. The best possible scenario is that they
               | 're doing it because they think that they know what's
               | good for you better than you do, and after that it's a
               | toss-up between "they want to make money" (ads) and "they
               | want to control you" (authoritarians).
               | 
               | Emotional manipulation is also a classic tool of tyrants,
               | and is necessary in cases where suppression of the
               | population through pure brute force isn't feasible.
               | 
               | Yes, "There's always a value judgement being made about
               | what is important to report." - but that's unavoidable,
               | because reporters have limited resources. Adding in
               | emotionally-charged (or straight-up manipulative)
               | language makes the bias strictly worse. The fact that
               | totally unbiased reporting is impossible is _not_ an
               | excuse to embrace more bias than is necessary.
               | 
               | > It's fine to describe situations where people lose
               | their lives as "tragedies", for example.
               | 
               | I respectfully disagree, for the reason that news
               | organizations actively pick-and-choose words like this
               | that are emotionally charged and don't have precise
               | meanings in order to slant their articles. While most
               | events that a news organization would describe as a
               | "tragedy" are indeed so, some of them are not. Moreover,
               | even if that word isn't used, readers will understand
               | when events are tragedies _anyway_ - the number of people
               | who weren 't aware that a plane crash was a "tragedy"
               | unless it was explicitly pointed out to them (and who
               | were then convinced by the use of that word) is an
               | incredibly tiny sliver of the population.
        
               | sprafa wrote:
               | Then you can read Reuters.
        
               | thefounder wrote:
               | I would rather like the media companies to report the
               | facts than spend too much time on the emotional part.
               | Same goes for the history books. I've become alergic to
               | different parties trying to hijack my emotional state by
               | telling me who to hate and who to feel sorry for when all
               | I want to read are facts not "opinions", "breaking views"
               | etc
        
         | tyre wrote:
         | I'm not sure what is biased about this. The book is about the
         | wiles and humiliation of Adam Newman, who would day-drink and
         | was a snake oil salesman.
         | 
         | That's why we talk about Adam Newman. It's not conjecture that
         | he's projections were delusional.
         | 
         | It doesn't make the reporting any less objective because they
         | are describing how a book portrays someone.
        
         | hintymad wrote:
         | Even if there was humiliation, it was humiliation with a $400M+
         | payout to Adam Neumann. Softbank set up a really bad example in
         | the industry: you can get away with a hefty payout even if you
         | screw your investors and employees with deceit and corruption.
         | For that, Masayoshi Son is a co-conspirator and I think he
         | should not be trusted by anyone and deserve bankruptcy, if not
         | criminal charges.
        
           | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
           | The whole saga is fascinating, but I do wonder about the
           | level of consternation over this. To oversimplify, it seems
           | Adam Neumann was probably either deluded, dishonest, or a bit
           | of both, and conned some rich people into giving him a bunch
           | of money. Isn't this a bit of a morality play, though? These
           | other rich people (i.e. investors in Softbank, Saudi Arabia,
           | other venture firms, etc.) would have never had a problem in
           | the first place if they weren't chasing outsized gains. If
           | these people were happy to track the market, they would not
           | have been conned in the first place.
           | 
           | As far as I can tell, your average Joe or Josephine not only
           | does not invest in these vehicles, they cannot! Because they
           | are not accredited investors and/or Softbank's Vision Fund is
           | not accepting new capital. So if you're a normal person
           | worrying about getting conned after reading about WeWork,
           | don't! If you're a rich person, consider settling for the
           | market average rather than trusting an individual like
           | Masayoshi Son with your money.
           | 
           | As far Masayoshi Son going to jail, the payoff for Neumann
           | was likely contractually obligated or negotiated to get
           | better leadership into place. Unless some law was broken --
           | which I doubt, and almost certainly not provably -- criminal
           | charges do not seem to be appropriate. Bankruptcy does not
           | seem to be in the cards either considering he did not have
           | that much exposure to WeWork.
        
             | qeternity wrote:
             | > As far as I can tell, your average Joe or Josephine not
             | only does not invest in these vehicles, they cannot!
             | 
             | The absolutely do, even if they might now realize it. The
             | stickiest and most sought after capital for funds is
             | typical from pensions or large asset managers.
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | I feel really bad for anyone whose pension is controlled
               | by an active manager. They'd be much better off with that
               | value in the S&P 500. Fortunately pension funds are
               | insured to some degree in the US, so if a pension fund
               | failed, the cost of making the pensioners whole would
               | really be paid by the taxpayer, not the average person.
               | But in the specific case of Softbank, Saudi Arabia and a
               | few other named billionaires provided more than half of
               | the seed capital.
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | "Insured to some degree" is not "insured". The pensioners
               | could take a huge cut.
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | From what I can read the amount of the guarantee is about
               | 60k/year at standard retirement age.
               | https://www.pbgc.gov/wr/benefits/guaranteed-
               | benefits/maximum... Is my reading of this incorrect? Do a
               | large fraction of pensioners draw more than this? I had
               | assumed not but maybe I'm wrong?
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't think so. Public sector pensions are a bigger
               | deal than (mostly legacy) private sector pensions but the
               | guarantees are still relatively high compared to typical
               | payouts.
        
           | echopom wrote:
           | > Even if there was humiliation, it was humiliation with a
           | $400M+ payout to Adam Neumann. Softbank set up a really bad
           | example in the industry:
           | 
           | AFAIK has always been this way for at least a decade.
           | 
           | An example would be Docker , has raised more than 200M yet it
           | had no decent stream of revenue , it's litterrally a dead man
           | walking yet the CEO left the boat years ago with tens of
           | millions...
           | 
           | Startups that failed and have their founders go "bankrupt"
           | are startups that you never ever hear about... The rest of
           | startups you'll find on HN or have raised 100M+ millions
           | often have their founders pocket millions when they raise
           | very large amount ( 50M+ )...
           | 
           | There no surprise here , once you manage to get a business to
           | a certain valuation / run-rate it's worth a lot thus you can
           | trade that for cash , regardless of the "humiliation"
        
           | jdavis703 wrote:
           | SoftBank employs over 80,000 people. SoftBank's investments
           | don't seem to rise to the level of corporate corruption where
           | it seems reasonable to put the employees on the street.
        
             | hintymad wrote:
             | Fair point. My grudge is toward Masayoshi Son. Edited
             | accordingly.
        
             | wussboy wrote:
             | How many employees does a corporation need before it can
             | act unethically?
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | But at some point (likely when interest rates shift up
             | and/or the market crashes and/or lending tightens), those
             | 80,000 people are going to be out of a job when the whole
             | thing implodes.
             | 
             | And at that point, it's a solid argument that they all
             | would have been better off if SoftBank's capital had
             | instead been previously allocated to non-zombie /
             | financial-engineering businesses.
        
             | malcolmgreaves wrote:
             | The employees don't need to suffer. I can imagine a better
             | world where the executives can be jailed and have their
             | controlling shares stripped and given to new leaders. Maybe
             | even the employees themselves.
        
         | danso wrote:
         | Mike Allen is Axios's co-founder and chief newsletter writer.
         | I'm guessing his posts are more akin to editorials than
         | reported articles.
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | All this talk about WeWork being a total disaster actually got me
       | to sign up for a membership. I figure if they were losing so much
       | money they must be offering a high-end product for too low of a
       | price.
       | 
       | So far, I've loved it compared to working out of my apartment.
       | There's almost nobody there. Work areas are comfortable,
       | furniture is great, building is really fancy, it's secure,
       | there's really good free food and coffee, shower, bike room.
       | 
       | I'm telling everybody I know to take advantage of it now while
       | SoftBank is still footing most of the bill.
        
         | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
         | I wonder how much it would cost if SoftBank wasn't footing the
         | bill haha.
         | 
         | I find it hilarious that you state no one is there even at
         | these prices. I imagine an investor reading that.
         | 
         | His scribbling on the slide reminds me of the gnomes' plan for
         | making major $$$ from collecting underpants on South Park. How
         | was he going to get to those numbers?
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I assume with the pandemic that many companies aren't
           | renewing any contracts they have. And relatively few
           | individuals are going to pay for even a discounted co-working
           | space out of their own pocket just so they don't need to work
           | out of their apartments.
        
             | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
             | Yeah - a dedicated desk is usually >$400/m.
             | 
             | After taxes, this is >10% of income for >70% of the
             | population.
             | 
             | If Americans in cities didn't already spend >60% of their
             | after tax income on rent - I could see this being more
             | popular.
             | 
             | There's just not enough people that make enough money and
             | don't work at a good company that already has nice offices
             | for this to make sense.
             | 
             | I agree, in theory, WeWork is a lot better to work at than
             | most people's apartments. I'm not convinced enough people
             | have enough money.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | And, under normal circumstances, there are libraries,
               | coffeeshops, parks with WiFi, etc. I live in an exurban
               | house with an office and other space but even if I lived
               | in the ~1 hr drive city away in a studio, I'd time-slice
               | among free/cheap working options before I'd pay
               | $400+/month for a dedicated co-working space for myself.
               | I could afford to do so but I wouldn't.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | > There's almost nobody there
         | 
         | perhaps due to the pandemic?
        
         | briefcomment wrote:
         | I really like the idea of having more comfortable common
         | spaces, and I would have no problem paying a fee for that. I
         | miss being able sit in my college library's beautiful reading
         | room any time I want. I guess WeWork's initial execution was
         | bad, but I hope the general industry succeeds.
        
           | mcintyre1994 wrote:
           | I don't think their execution was ever bad to be honest, it's
           | just literally impossible to execute their business model in
           | a way that justifies the insane valuation they were getting.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | It strikes me as a perfectly reasonable business model for
           | anything other than an enormous startup. Not every thing can
           | grow to a million billion, not everything should.
        
           | HWR_14 wrote:
           | WeWork's initial execution wasn't bad, as far as I can tell.
           | It was their business model that failed, not the product
           | delivery.
        
         | ren_engineer wrote:
         | the criticism about WeWork wasn't the product itself, it was
         | the fact that somehow it was being valued like a software
         | startup despite being just a standard low margin real estate
         | and co-working business
        
           | joshuaheard wrote:
           | My wife was all excited about this company, and I'm like,
           | it's an executive suite. There's already one in every
           | business park.
        
             | learn_more wrote:
             | But there's a selection bias for trendy folks, whereas many
             | executive suites can be quite the opposite.
        
         | iab wrote:
         | Absolutely, the Moviepass strategy
        
         | indigodaddy wrote:
         | How long will it last before SB starts shutting everything
         | down? Also how much are you paying? Really good deal I guess?
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | $150/month for 3 months for access to the common areas/shared
           | workspaces (not a private room/office). After that it goes up
           | to $300.
           | 
           | It's about 3 miles from my apartment so I just jog there with
           | my stuff (or bike). When I jog, I take a shower and change.
           | So it's a good way to make myself be more active than I was
           | mid-pandemic.
           | 
           | I figure even at the full price, that's like $15 per work
           | day, and I usually have an espresso, a Stumptown cold brew,
           | and a snack during the day (or meal if there's something
           | free/good). Plus on the days I don't get free lunch, I'm more
           | motivated to meal prep and take a healthy good lunch instead
           | of just snacking while I work in my apartment.
        
       | notsospecialk wrote:
       | Seems like WeWork will continue to be in trouble for a while. The
       | pandemic has allowed them to renegotiate a lot of their lease
       | agreements, which how's allowed them to eek out profitability in
       | many locations, and they're trying to extricate themselves from
       | their worst deals, but demand for their product is going to
       | continue to look different when the pandemic ends (assuming it
       | ends!). Less desire for shared/common working space. Less worker
       | density. More WFH. They're going to need to invest even more to
       | alter their workspaces to what their customers actually want.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | They might actually positioned really well for companies that
         | don't want to commit to their own space when the company is
         | remote half the time.
        
           | ethbr0 wrote:
           | That's a fickle slice though.
           | 
           | They're only attractive to (a) individuals or (b) companies
           | too small to just deal directly with standard office space
           | brokers.
           | 
           | They need larger accounts to drive their COGS down, but
           | larger accounts can bypass their service. So they're like a
           | cloud provider, except without all the synergy and lock-in.
           | 
           | The only future where they're moderately successful is one
           | where workforces are _substantially_ more spread out (one
           | employee in each different city) and they 're a broker.
           | 
           | But even then... they'd face the challenge of scaling their
           | business geographically (office in every city) vs having
           | larger offices in hubs.
        
         | fairity wrote:
         | Isn't WeWork uniquely positioned to accommodate employers who
         | are looking for flexible post-COVID office setups?
         | 
         | As more workers go remote, some will still want a physical
         | office to work out of. That's something WeWork should excel at.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | But if employers don't pay for it (and I expect nonpaying
           | will be the norm), they're now negotiating with _very_ price-
           | sensitive individual employees.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >Less desire for shared/common working space.
         | 
         | At the individual company level, there's some level of common
         | understanding of rules/protocols for coming into offices.
         | That's not generally going to be the case with co-working
         | spaces.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _"... how grifters came to be called visionaries. "_
       | 
       | Yes.
       | 
       | Near-zero interest rates enabled the creation of "successful"
       | companies that didn't actually make money. That era is coming to
       | a close.
        
         | HWR_14 wrote:
         | > Near-zero interest rates enabled the creation of "successful"
         | companies that didn't actually make money. That era is coming
         | to a close.
         | 
         | Rates seem to be going down again. What makes you think near-
         | zero interest rates are going away?
        
           | Lionga wrote:
           | Inflation
        
             | magila wrote:
             | That's putting a lot of faith in central banks. The current
             | heads of those banks, at least in the US and EU, have
             | telegraphed pretty clearly that they are willing to let
             | inflation run hot for better or worse.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | The wealthy deserve their low interest loans. Then the
               | manna they generate will trickle down... Somehow.
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | Loans are for people without money. High interest is good
               | for people with money who loan it out.
               | 
               | The wealthy only use the loans when it makes more sense
               | to keep money earning returns somewhere else.
        
               | HWR_14 wrote:
               | The wealthy are using loans backed by stocks to avoid
               | capital gains taxes.
        
               | throw_m239339 wrote:
               | > Loans are for people without money
               | 
               | This is false. Filthy rich people are taking billions in
               | loans right now because there is a chance the dollar
               | crashes and they might have to repay their loans for way
               | less than they have taken them.
        
               | bob33212 wrote:
               | Until something terrible happens they will keep rates
               | low. The only people who care about high inflation are
               | people who have salary jobs with low raise potential and
               | people on fixed incomes like annuities. Those people have
               | far less political influence than the rich. Obviously,
               | there may be second order effects that cause another
               | reason to raise rates, but that is TBD
        
         | gunshai wrote:
         | is it me or has the word "grift" seen a large uptick in the
         | last few years.
         | 
         | I used to really like this word now I see it all over the
         | place, I wouldn't call anything what Gavin did a grift ... or a
         | small time swindle.
        
           | Tenoke wrote:
           | According to Google Trends there's been a rise in the usage
           | in 2020 (similar to 2005) that's leveled off now. Similar for
           | grifter but a lesser rise especially compared to a bigger one
           | in 2010.
           | 
           | https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=grifter
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | Isn't google trends the wrong tool to use for this, since
             | it only represents search traffic? If you want to compare
             | usages in written works you'd need to use ngram viewer or
             | something.
        
           | tomlong wrote:
           | Looks to have been a recent uptick if you put any store in
           | Google Trends:
           | 
           | https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?date=all&q=grift,.
           | ..
        
           | lalaland1125 wrote:
           | The rise of YouTube and Patreon has made grifting a more
           | profitable and common phenomenon.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | How are YouTube and Patreon grifting? People watching
             | someone's videos and someone making optional donations
             | because they like some creative seems more or less the
             | opposite of "grifting."
        
               | lalaland1125 wrote:
               | They aren't necessarily grifting, but they give a
               | platform for grifters. That's not necessarily a bad
               | thing. A more open media environment is worth the cost of
               | a few bad actors.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I mean, telephones are a platform for grifters.
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | They are, just not as profitable as YouTube and Patreon.
        
           | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
           | There has definitely been an uptick. You see it quite a bit
           | in lefty and progressive media -- and I say this as a
           | frequent consumer of such media. It seems like the term has
           | lost a lot of its meaning and has become a synonym for
           | "person I don't like." You especially often see it applied to
           | someone from the other political side of the aisle who joined
           | the media after leaving politics.
        
         | mrh0057 wrote:
         | I guess whoever wrote this didn't know about the 80s and the
         | 90s.
        
           | boulos wrote:
           | I find this comment particularly amusing given what Animats
           | aka John Nagle is most known for...
        
         | harryh wrote:
         | Appropriate management of the money supply by the Fed also
         | created the best economic circumstances for the middle and
         | working classes in 20 years.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | lumost wrote:
           | The current setup isn't the Fed acting in isolation. The
           | federal government is now using the zero percent interest
           | rate to distribute cash via direct payments to workers on an
           | unprecedented scale.
           | 
           | You could argue for cutting out the middlemen and simply
           | having the fed issue credit cards.
        
             | harryh wrote:
             | Yes, fiscal policy is important as well. It's also probably
             | true that the federal government has overdone it a bit as
             | we're now seeing supply side driven inflation. These sorts
             | of things are rarely handled perfectly.
        
         | ren_engineer wrote:
         | >that era is coming to a close
         | 
         | negative interest rates seem more likely than higher interest
         | rates
        
       | uses wrote:
       | Bloomberg Podcasts did a 7-part deep dive into WeWork last year
       | and its extremely entertaining and eye-opening:
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-25/wework-po...
       | 
       | I believe Ellen Huet was the narrator and main journalist. One of
       | the more fascinating podcast series I've listened to.
       | 
       | Hearing about Adam and all the wackiness surrounding him, I can
       | totally recall some of the hyper charismatic people I've known.
       | They can have this weird almost energy field around them that
       | just turns people's brains off.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | There was a guy I worked for, I had to quit three times,
         | because he could always paint a picture of the cool things we
         | were going to work on, and on the first two occasions I got a
         | field promotion out of it.
         | 
         | The last time I literally did not make eye contact with him and
         | I kept interrupting his train of thought before he could spin
         | up into a speech.
        
       | fabianhjr wrote:
       | > In 1866 there was a bank called Overend, Gurney and Company
       | [..] they went bust. They invested a whole bunch of money in the
       | railway industry and then the railway bubble burst. Thing is, if
       | you invest a bundle in railways and lose it, there are still
       | railways, people can still use them. But that's increasingly not
       | how investment works. A lot of companies, especially tech
       | companies, borrow money not to make anything, just on the promise
       | that they will eventually make it back.
       | 
       | > Let's take a case study: WeWork. WeWork are an American company
       | that provide office space. They dress it up as revolutionizing
       | your workplace and bringing people closer together(, but we're
       | doing materialism, remember?) They own a bunch of offices, and if
       | you need one you can rent it from them. They're landlords! [..]
       | In summer of 2019, WeWork was valued at $47 billion. Now, just a
       | few months later they're worth.. Well actually, it's not clear
       | how much they're worth but nowhere near that.
       | 
       | > So what happened? Was there some kind of disaster? Did the
       | offices burn down? No. The truth is, they were never worth 47
       | billion.
       | 
       | > [..]
       | 
       | > Their business model was just owning stuff and charging rent,
       | and if nobody wants your stuff or nobody can afford the rent,
       | then all the money that was invested in you can just vanish.
       | 
       | From: The Trouble with the Video Game Industry | Philosophy Tube
       | ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYkLVU5UGM8&t=1000s at 16m and
       | 40s)
       | 
       | This was published in November 2019, before the pandemic. I am
       | amazed that WeWork is still around.
       | 
       | Citation on that segment: Grace Blakely, Stolen: How to Save the
       | World from Financialisation
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | > They [WeWork] own a bunch of offices, and if you need one you
         | can rent it from them.
         | 
         | I always assumed that WeWork was mostly leasing their space (to
         | acquire the space, I mean), rather than buying it.
        
           | fabianhjr wrote:
           | The video does side on over-simplification and that is worse
           | for WeWork since they would have the lease obligations and no
           | assets they could liquidate on a downturn. (Like, for
           | example, a pandemic)
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | They would lease the space from Adam Neumann-owned
           | properties.
        
       | duped wrote:
       | The way this article is structured is bizarre, I don't know how
       | I'm supposed to read it or what it's supposed to be telling me.
       | Is this a book review or advertisement?
        
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