[HN Gopher] Password of three random words better than complex v...
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       Password of three random words better than complex variation,
       experts say
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2021-08-07 11:37 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | AlexAndScripts wrote:
       | Isn't this common knowledge?
        
         | yoz-y wrote:
         | Obviously, and unfortunately, not. If it were, then almost all
         | websites would handle their password requirements differently.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bryan_w wrote:
       | I usually add something else to ensure its unique because unlike
       | in most TV/Movies, "Horse battery staple" and "Horse
       | BAttery.Staple!" Are miles apart and any legit password cracking
       | tool won't know that there was 20 common characters between the
       | first and second example
        
       | Inityx wrote:
       | https://xkcd.com/936/
        
       | ceautery wrote:
       | Coincidentally, we're close to the 10 year anniversary of
       | https://xkcd.com/936/
        
       | fwipsy wrote:
       | Why can't hackers just brute-force word combinations? If there
       | are 170k English words, and 95 possible password characters, then
       | it seems to me that 170,000^3 ~= 95^8 so a 3-word English phrase
       | would only be about as safe as an 8-character random string.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | But, that is formidable: using three dictionary words, you have
         | something that is as secure as 8 characters, those being chosen
         | from the full set of 95 non-blank ASCII glyphs!
         | 
         | It's likely way easier to memorize, not to mention type.
         | 
         | Though, by the same lexical token, it's worth acknowledging
         | that words from a 170,000 dictionary will include some
         | difficult ones that are not in the user's vocabulary.
         | 
         | Say we use a 30,000 dictionary of common words, and make the
         | password four words. You know, like correct-horse-battery-
         | staple. Wow, I remembered that.
        
         | Uehreka wrote:
         | Most people's passwords are 10-ish character not-totally-random
         | strings, so that would actually be an improvement. Now bump it
         | to four words like the xkcd comic actually says and you've got
         | a stew goin'.
        
       | SiVal wrote:
       | What drives me crazy is that it doesn't matter how well I design
       | my passwords if companies immediately sabotage them with their
       | laughable "security" questions. "Pick one of these security
       | questions carefully chosen for you by our marketing director's
       | 4th grader: What was Mommy's maiden name? What was your first
       | pet's name?..."
       | 
       | So now a hacker can just claim to have forgotten my password,
       | google for the town I grew up in or mother's maiden name or try a
       | list of the top 100 pet names, and not have to deal with my
       | billion-year clever password at all. So they allow you to harden
       | the front door's security as much as you like but require you to
       | pick one of their six easy-access window designs for the side of
       | the house just in case you (or anyone else) are unable to get
       | through the front door.
       | 
       | I can improve security by providing the wrong answer, but then
       | I'll have to record it and won't remember it if surprised by a
       | challenge (on the phone for example). What I _always_ want is the
       | option to create my own security question, because I can design
       | one that only makes sense to me but that I can reliably answer
       | from memory.
        
         | eloeffler wrote:
         | I did that (provide a false answer) with a yahoo mail account
         | and got myself locked out forever... when they introduced the
         | security questions it was a measure to double check when
         | changing the password. as i was using a password manager i just
         | provided nonsense and didn't store it anywhere. years later
         | yahoo decided to make it mandatory to enter the security
         | question when logging in from a new device. no chance to get in
         | there anymore...
        
         | Nekit1234007 wrote:
         | I just put passwords in those fields if they are required.
        
           | yoz-y wrote:
           | Same, you can generate passwords as answers and save them in
           | a password manager note or something.
        
       | vlovich123 wrote:
       | You know what's even better? Go to
       | http://passwordsgenerator.net/, generate as many N-digit
       | passwords as you want and store them in a password manager that's
       | reasonably sane (that way you can use a very large N). Google,
       | Apple or Microsoft are going to be good ones because they already
       | control your operating system and browser. There's also a few
       | other popular ones that may offer slightly more features/better
       | organization if that's important. Also turn on real 2fa (app or
       | even better a U2F key).
       | 
       | No, this won't really protect you from a very determined
       | attacker. Then again, neither will using a password of three
       | random words. The endless debates about the best password policy
       | are counterproductive. At the point it matters, you haven't
       | designed your security robustly enough.
        
         | wildrhythms wrote:
         | See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diceware
        
       | kgwxd wrote:
       | Certainly not if the complex variation is just as long, right?
       | 
       | About 15 years ago I got bit by the common mistake of reusing the
       | same password everywhere, it was my email account and I can't
       | believe I caught it in time before they changed the password or
       | did anything to get my account banned. From then on, I remember
       | just one complex password, the one for my password manager. Every
       | site gets its own random password, as long and complex as they'll
       | let me make it. If I get to pick a user name, I randomly generate
       | that too, along with the answers to any security questions, which
       | I keep in the notes section of the password manager.
        
         | kadoban wrote:
         | Once you get entropy high enough, it's no longer the weak link
         | in the chain. So sure, a 50 character long letter/number/symbol
         | line-noise can have more entropy than a 6 word random
         | passphrase, but it doesn't matter and has some drawbacks.
         | 
         | By the way, for security questions specifically, I'd recommend
         | passphrases. Often there are protocols where you need to say
         | the security question answer to a human and they need to verify
         | it. You're not going to have a great time spelling out a bunch
         | of nonsense letters, and there's also more chance someone would
         | be able to talk customer service into "oh I don't know, I just
         | typed random keys" or something. Your password manager can
         | likely do passphrases for you as well so it's probably no
         | harder.
        
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       (page generated 2021-08-07 23:01 UTC)