[HN Gopher] Oatly loses trademark battle against British farm ov...
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       Oatly loses trademark battle against British farm over oat milk
        
       Author : vanilla-almond
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2021-08-05 21:01 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | Oatly makes a good product but disappointed to see them trademark
       | bullying.
       | 
       | Their ice cream alternative is pretty good too.
        
         | sshumaker wrote:
         | I used to think that. Then I started wearing a continuous
         | glucose monitor (levels) for longevity reasons. Holy crap, a
         | latte with Oatly spikes my blood glucose like crazy compared to
         | whole milk. There's way more sugar in there vs fat and it
         | really causes a strong insulin response. That isn't the kind of
         | thing you want to be consuming long term.
        
           | Wohlf wrote:
           | A good rule of thumb is low fat = high sugar and vice versa.
        
           | spotman wrote:
           | Yes agreed. Oatly is horrible for you. It's one of the worst
           | Oat milks they sell in my store. (when comparing by nutrition
           | facts).
           | 
           | It is so bizarre this alternative milk that goes around. I am
           | totally onboard with finding an alternative to save cows from
           | inhumane practice, however, very little of the alternative
           | milk that is out there is anywhere near as healthy as normal
           | milk.
           | 
           | Meanwhile anyone can produce any type of alternative milk and
           | people think they are buying health food.
        
         | FairlyInvolved wrote:
         | They sort of have to, you can't selectively enforce trademarks
         | like you can with other IP
        
           | simonswords82 wrote:
           | Well in a sense yes but also they can pick and choose their
           | targets more carefully.
           | 
           | For starters - PureOaty sounds nothing like Oatly. Secondly,
           | it's made on minuscule scale at one farm from what I can make
           | out.
        
             | setr wrote:
             | I don't think size matters for this kind of thing -- if
             | they grow, and you didn't enforce action when they were
             | small, you don't have much claim when they're large (and
             | the violation is worth more, and they're more established
             | in it, and they've built more of a brand around it).
             | 
             | but yeah Oaty vs Oatly might have been reasonable but
             | PureOaty is quite the stretch
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | No they don't. This is a common myth when it comes to cases
           | like this.
           | 
           | If the defendants had been selling their product with the
           | exact same name, or ripping off their logo directly, then you
           | have a point.
        
             | zinekeller wrote:
             | >> No they don't. This is a common myth when it comes to
             | cases like this.
             | 
             | This is the UK, where digital reproductions of public
             | domain documents do get a copyright. While I agree they
             | overstep here (especially that a regular customer would see
             | the two products differently), IP laws in UK are much more
             | sensitive with these issues.
        
         | simonswords82 wrote:
         | My exact thoughts, my wife and I have been fans of Oatly for a
         | time. It's the only oat milk I've tried that tastes somewhat
         | like cow's milk.
         | 
         | I always felt their branding and overall approach was on point
         | which makes this quite out character and a total dick move on
         | their part.
        
           | octodog wrote:
           | Try Vitasoy oat milk if that's available. Easily my favourite
           | brand and much cheaper than Oatly (in Australia at least).
        
           | 3327 wrote:
           | Oaty is spelled differently too.
           | 
           | Total dick move indeed.
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | They're also partly owned by the state-owned China Resources
         | holdings company.
         | 
         | That said, I still buy their products regularly. And I'm proud
         | they started in my home town.
        
         | anu7df wrote:
         | Indeed. The only oat milk or for that matter any non-milk milk
         | that I like in my coffee. I don't see the similarities at all
         | in the branding or packaging. Like oatly, glad they lost.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | Have you tried the Chobani Extra Creamy? I now like it even
           | better than Oatly.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | Expensive though, at least in Germany it's twice the price of
         | normal milk and they don't even have to hold cows. I understand
         | it's also a smaller market but still, I wonder if this is
         | really warranted. It also won't help less determined consumers
         | switch away from dairy products, though luckily there are
         | knock-off brands that also taste nearly the same.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | Cow milk is also highly subsidised in the EU and sold at
           | closer to zero margin because of the high control over the
           | market relatively few retail chains have, especially in
           | Germany.
           | 
           | Oldy but goody: https://www.kuechenstud.io/kuechenradio/episo
           | de/kr_121-milch...
           | 
           | Edit: obviously we shouldn't subsidize industrial farming and
           | its carbon emissions and instead charge for these negative
           | externalities. We are all paying for this cheap milk
           | consumption with our climate.
        
         | vanilla-almond wrote:
         | I'm glad that Oatly lost the court case. The name and packing
         | design of the other brand looked nothing like the Oatly design.
         | It's baffling that Oatly even took this matter to court.
         | 
         | It's interesting that fresh, pasteurised cow's milk is
         | _cheaper_ than a carton of oat milk which is approximately 90%
         | water + oats and thickeners. Almond milk is even worse:
         | approximately 95-97% water + 2-3% almonds and thickeners.
        
           | knuthsat wrote:
           | When it comes to price, that's what government subsidies do
           | for the cow's milk and high demand does for the oat milk.
           | Although, I've seen Temple Grandin's methods live and a milk
           | farm with milking robots basically runs itself (all cows just
           | walk to the robot to be milked and the robot finds the teats
           | with a bit of computer vision).
           | 
           | But yes, other than a good soy milk, most of plant-based
           | milks are just empty calories.
        
             | barrkel wrote:
             | Well, the Oatly Barista Edition matches cow's milk for
             | nutritional content surprisingly closely - fat,
             | carbohydrate, vitamins, minerals and so on. We give it to
             | our toddler, who's allergic to cow's milk protein.
        
             | arthurcolle wrote:
             | Tell me more about the milking robots fellow traveler, I
             | need some entertainment after 6 hours of meetings today.
        
               | robbedpeter wrote:
               | Milkbots and the teat detectors were great opening for
               | Metallica!
        
           | sacred_numbers wrote:
           | To be fair, cow's milk is also about 90% water. You're right,
           | though, that the ingredient cost using commodity oats and
           | rapeseed oil should only be about 4-5 cents per liter. The
           | price of cow's milk, on the other hand, is a lot closer to
           | the price of the inputs (corn, alfalfa, grazing land, etc.)
           | which are about 16 cents per liter.
           | 
           | I'm hopeful that eventually the price of oat milk will
           | approach the cost of its inputs, but it might take a while.
        
       | vnchr wrote:
       | They are broths, not milks. No teats? No milk.
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | Milk of magnesia? Almond milk? Coconut milk? They don't have
         | nipples, Greg, but I can get milk from them.
        
         | calvano915 wrote:
         | Like peanut butter isn't butter. Yet I don't need to hear
         | people complain about it whenever nut butter is brought up.
        
           | lurquer wrote:
           | And a peanut is neither a pea nor a nut.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | Funny enough, it's not nut butter either, because peanuts are
           | not nuts. And for that matter, they're not even peas!
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | Love my legume-paste and jelly sammiches!
        
         | function_seven wrote:
         | Yes, and tomatoes are "actually" fruits, and peanuts are
         | "really" legumes and almond butter is "not really butter."
         | 
         | "Milk" is a fine term for any opaque liquid, white-ish in
         | color. Especially when it substitutes well for cow's milk.
         | 
         | Coconut milk, rice milk, almond milk, oat milk, and soy milk
         | are well established at this point.
        
           | adtac wrote:
           | milk of magnesia!
        
             | function_seven wrote:
             | Oh no.
             | 
             | Adding this to your coffee is probably a bad idea. I'm
             | going to start a campaign to rename it Broth of Magnesia to
             | avoid such mishaps.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | spoonjim wrote:
         | Everybody knows that Oatly doesn't come out of a tit. Nobody is
         | being misled.
        
           | lurquer wrote:
           | You seriously overestimate the intelligence of the general
           | population.
           | 
           | I would wager a sizeable percentage of people don't know that
           | dairy milk comes out of a tit.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | I don't think being ignorant of something widely known
             | counts as being misled.
        
         | DavidVoid wrote:
         | What about coconut milk? That has been called milk for more
         | than a century. Should we start calling it coconut broth
         | instead?
         | 
         | Restricting the use of the word milk to mammal products is
         | silly imo. From a consumer standpoint it makes sense to call
         | milk alternatives _< substitute>_ milk (e.g., soy milk, oat
         | milk, etc.) to make it clear to the consumer that they can use
         | it as an alternative to regular cow milk.
        
       | jfengel wrote:
       | Headline has been slightly altered (or A/B tested). The original
       | headline is "Glebe Farm", rather than "British farm".
       | 
       | That original headline is also slightly misleading, since it's
       | really "Glebe Farm Foods", which is a manufacturer as well as a
       | grower. It's not an enormous corporation; I saw an estimate of
       | its revenue at $7 million.
       | 
       | But this headline has already prompted one remark that suggested
       | this was about the "milk" part. It's not. It's one manufacturer
       | suing another over the name of their oat milk.
        
       | uxcolumbo wrote:
       | Really disappointed in them.
       | 
       | How is Glebe Farm Foods [0], a small business, a threat to Oatly?
       | 
       | If Oatly really cared about sustainability then they'd
       | congratulate a small producer joining the oat drinks industry...
       | also an opportunity to generate positive PR, i.e. not doing
       | business as usual etc.
       | 
       | This stunt just turned me off their brand.
       | 
       | I think consumers are clever enough to differentiate between
       | Oatly or PureOaty.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.glebefarmfoods.co.uk/about-us/
       | 
       | Edit: clarity.
        
         | ajmurmann wrote:
         | In essence companies are forced to be litigious about their
         | trademark. If they don't defend them or become generic the
         | trademark is lost. Even if Oatly believes that there is little
         | to no risk in consumers confusing PureOaty, this might become a
         | liability in future lawsuits
        
           | uxcolumbo wrote:
           | Thanks for clarifying, but they have no case here - even the
           | judge agrees.
           | 
           | Would be interesting to know what they've actually
           | trademarked? That no other brand can use a shade of blue on
           | their packaging when selling oat drinks?
           | 
           | I can understand if Glebe Farms called their product Oaty,
           | but they called it PureOaty - doesn't even start with the
           | same letter and their packaging looks different, not as
           | polished as Oatly's packaging.
           | 
           | Edit: In the BBC article they claimed the 'y' is the
           | offender. But oaty is an adjective, hence the name PureOaty
           | to create a product name.
        
             | zamalek wrote:
             | > [Article] A spokeswoman for Oatly said the company would
             | not be appealing the decision.
             | 
             | Oatly clearly agrees, too. The judge declared their
             | brand/trade dress safe.
        
         | Danieru wrote:
         | > I think consumers are clever enough to differentiate between
         | Oatly or PureOaty.
         | 
         | I wouldn't. It took me a double take to notice the missing l,
         | and that's with your sentence priming me to see a difference.
         | In the store I might ponder on why the pure version existed.
         | 
         | Seeing them both in a store I'd have expected PureOatly was the
         | unflavored version.
        
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