[HN Gopher] Gitly: A light and fast GitHub/GitLab alternative wr...
___________________________________________________________________
Gitly: A light and fast GitHub/GitLab alternative written in V lang
(pre-alpha)
Author : open-source-ux
Score : 104 points
Date : 2021-08-04 15:16 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (gitly.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (gitly.org)
| andrew-ld wrote:
| scam
| lbotos wrote:
| Unfortunately this will probably run afoul of Git's trademark:
|
| "In addition, you may not use any of the Marks as a syllable in a
| new word or as part of a portmanteau (e.g., "Gitalicious",
| "Gitpedia") used as a mark for a third-party product or service
| without Conservancy's written permission. For the avoidance of
| doubt, this provision applies even to third-party marks that use
| the Marks as a syllable or as part of a portmanteau to refer to a
| product or service's use of Git code."
|
| How enforceable that is... I'm not a lawyer.
|
| https://git-scm.com/about/trademark (section 2.3)
| edgyquant wrote:
| How do gitlab, github, gitea, etc get away with it then?
| orra wrote:
| GitLab and GitHub predate the trademark, and were explicitly
| granted an exception when the trademark was approved.
| john_cogs wrote:
| GitLab team member here.
|
| Git is a trademark of Software Freedom Conservancy and our
| use of 'GitLab' is under license.
| soperj wrote:
| Could they keep the same domain and change the name to
| gitly.org?
| aorth wrote:
| Strange. What about GitLab and Gitea? And probably others.
| abdusco wrote:
| In the case of Gitea, an argument could be made that it's
| actually `gi*tea`, not `git*ea` :)
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| Gitea is a portmanteau, which is explicitly covered.
| vlovich123 wrote:
| Not how trademark law is argued I think. Mike Roe Software
| (mikeroesoft) had a similar challenge. Trademark law is
| kind of inane but what are you going to do.
| rvz wrote:
| So I should be seeing incoming lawsuits for GitLab (Who also
| acquired Gitorious and Gitter) GitHub, Gitea, GitKraken,
| Gitcoin, Gitpod, GitSense and a VSCode tool called GitLens?
|
| Why haven't they happened yet?
|
| Downvoters: So you have ALL sources to your claims that these
| aforementioned Git-related services have the necessary
| permissions to use the Git trademark from the Software Freedom
| Conservancy?
|
| I don't want 'probablys' or 'maybes' but full sources to ALL
| these services that explicitly show the permission granted for
| using the Git trademark under license.
|
| GitLab is covered. Evidence for the rest?
| ezfe wrote:
| They almost certainly have permission to use the phrases that
| way.
| rvz wrote:
| One simple question:
|
| Do you have evidence of this 'permission' on all of them
| excluding GitLab? Any sources?
| shakna wrote:
| They're used under license. [0][1]
|
| > Git is a trademark of Software Freedom Conservancy and our
| use of 'GitLab' is under license
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28062305
|
| [1] https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/marketing/corporate-
| market...
| sdesol wrote:
| You can add my startup GitSense as well
|
| https://public-001.gitsense.com/insights/github/repos?q=wind.
| ..
|
| The thing is, from what I've read, if you were using Git<plus
| something> before Git started cracking down, they will let it
| slide. I also think they don't care until you hit it big and
| cause issues for them.
| dr_kiszonka wrote:
| It would be a stretch but git has another meaning, which some
| find consistent with their perception of SWEs ;)
|
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/git
| ketralnis wrote:
| So does Apple but you'd have a hard time defending your Apple
| Phone in court on that basis
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| EcmaScript all over again. As I understand, letter reversal
| doesn't count?
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Unless someone has agreed to a contract binding them to the Git
| trademark policy, the policy would seem to serve as nothing but
| a statement as to the Conservancy's preferences (except where
| it explicitly permits something, where it may constitute a
| gratuitous license); what is enforceable is trademark law.
|
| But, for a git-related service offered in commercial trade,
| there would seem likely to be a trademark violation independent
| of the policy, so the Conservancy is probably within their
| rights to enforce the policy in this case.
| shrubble wrote:
| One thing that is positive is that writing an application in a
| new language is a 'rubber meets the road' situation where the
| language is being tested in the real world.
| [deleted]
| tiffanyh wrote:
| > " Works without JS"
|
| > " Open source"
|
| > " Minimum RAM needed is only 128 MB"
|
| Curious to see how this compares to @drewdevault great
| Sourcehut.org alternative and to get his take on Gitly
|
| For performance comparison, maybe Drew will add Gitly to
| https://forgeperf.org/
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| I like the approach that sourcehut took overall. I would like to
| find a way to implement issue tracking into Git, but the mailing
| list approach isn't a bad idea.
| q3k wrote:
| > I would like to find a way to implement issue tracking into
| Git
|
| Maybe git-bug would work for you?
| https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| Thank you. I am interested, but am concerned by this
| statement:
|
| > This is now more than a proof of concept, but still not
| fully stable. Expect dragons and unfinished business
| q3k wrote:
| That's something you should ask the git-bug authors, I
| vaguely remember some being on this very website.
|
| FWIW I don't even use git-bug, I just know it exists :).
| michaelmure wrote:
| git-bug author here.
|
| It's still not v1 where there would be some sort of
| backward compatibility guarantee, but it's close if you are
| using master. Note though that even without that guarantee,
| there is git-bug-migration to provide you some safety.
|
| There is however some bugs and missing features, as in any
| software that young with an author busy buying/refurbishing
| an apartment ;)
| throwaway889900 wrote:
| Isn't that what Fossil does? https://www.fossil-scm.org/
| analognoise wrote:
| Fossil does all kinds of awesome stuff out of the box, I
| remember looking at it and being blown away.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| Yes, but I honestly hate the idea of having to learn yet
| another SCM. I may reconsider at some point though,
| especially if more implementations emerge.
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| First time I hear about it. What alternative
| implementations git has?
| algorithm314 wrote:
| Or https://github.com/dspinellis/git-issue
| 7357 wrote:
| Can what this guy is doing be done without making mistakes? Is
| this thread not good publicity? Does crazy_horse not sound
| pathetic and amedvednikov comparatively heroic? Could we not
| dream a little, please?
| maleldil wrote:
| amedvednikov only sounds heroic if this is first time you've
| heard about him or the criticisms towards him over the years.
|
| To those who've heard of him before, he's just a conman.
|
| Make no mistake, this is just one of his many "ambitious"
| projects that he creates for publicity and then abandons after
| a while. Again, this isn't the first time he does this. He
| promises the world and under-delivers.
| terafo wrote:
| Can you give few examples?
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Wow--they weren't kidding when they said fast! It's interesting
| how I've been conditioned to expect delays on websites--so when I
| come across something like this which loads seemingly-instantly,
| it's super noticeable!
| svnpenn wrote:
| Please add "contributions in the last year", thats the one thing
| keeping me from using GitLab:
|
| https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/22578
| Garlef wrote:
| Any documentation on the CI/CD features?
| algorithm314 wrote:
| Don't like that it tries to mimic Github UI.
| lights0123 wrote:
| What would you do instead? They popularized that interface, and
| I think it's very usable.
| kvark wrote:
| Looks like V author/community is on the track to rewrite the
| world. Expect operating system stuff next? I'm shocked by how
| quickly it goes along, though. Gitly is quite usable already, and
| I appreciate the swiftness. I'd think that Rust community is
| rewriting the world, but it's happening at much slower pace. Is
| V's basis strong enough to do this? Seeing the issues like [1]
| (about the basic memory management stuff) open makes me
| suspicious.
|
| [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/6456
| penagwin wrote:
| Already beat you to it https://github.com/vlang/vinix
| crazy_horse wrote:
| Could someone explain to me why, after seeing how many
| exaggerated claims the author has made, they have invested
| their time into building up a community around it?
|
| I'd be straight up terrified to trust anything serious with
| this guy's work.
|
| In this instance, the demo won't even load for me and the
| documentation page can't be bothered to put the most basic of
| padding in it. Why even release publicly?
|
| Promises, promises.
| TeddyDD wrote:
| Medvednikov seems to be good at marketing -\\_(tsu)_/-
|
| Given the over-prommise-under-deliver launch of V, it boggles
| my mind that it gained so much traction on GH.
| machiaweliczny wrote:
| Same could be said about Elon Musk but he might become first
| trillionere. Sometimes you have to try bold stuff. I'm
| rooting for them.
| amedvednikov wrote:
| You create a new account to spam the thread with accusations,
| and links to biased articles (see my comment above).
|
| Any actual valid examples of exaggerated claims?
|
| > and the documentation page can't be bothered to put the
| most basic of padding in it. Why even release publicly?
|
| Well it hasn't been released. It's pre-alpha software, like
| the GitHub page says. Why would I not have it up for testing?
| crazy_horse wrote:
| > You create a new account to spam the thread with
| accusations, and links to biased articles (see my comment
| above).
|
| If you'd just look at my comment history, it's obvious this
| isn't the case.
|
| I don't understand, if it is this unready, why not test it
| locally?
| nemo1618 wrote:
| I confess that I've found it both enraging and depressing to
| see that the "bootstrapped-by-hype" model works even in
| _programming language development_ , which I had (naively, I
| guess) assumed would be more immune to that sort of thing. I
| suppose the field is composed of fallible humans just like
| any other.
| jstimpfle wrote:
| Having tried out a bunch of different things without clear
| reward, it feels more like programming languages is 90%
| hype / fashion.
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| You can't even imagine, just wait until you run across C++.
| andrewnc wrote:
| My honest opinion (as someone with no dog in this fight) is
| that the author was naive and really bad at PR, but is
| improving overtime.
|
| I generally encourage new programming language efforts, so
| I'm willing to be more generous with forgiveness in the hopes
| that this succeeds.
| osmarks wrote:
| They made hugely exaggerated/false claims while raking in
| lots of Patreon money.
| jstimpfle wrote:
| It's not even a question of "how bad". There was way too
| much PR given how immature the project was, at least at the
| time. I don't think the author had had a lot of experience
| as a language designer / compiler implementer when the
| project was started. One advertised feature of the compiler
| was its supposed simplicity, such as getting along without
| an AST. I doubt this was a good choice and I think they
| ended up adding one in.
|
| In my perception it was mostly sold as a piece of
| engineering by PR like this (quote from OP): Cheapest
| server $160 $20 $3.50 [2]
| k__ wrote:
| People are always talking about the 10x engineer. Nobody
| imagined that someone would invent the 10x programming
| language.
| sparaker wrote:
| Sign in takes you to a 404 Github OAuth
| adamrezich wrote:
| anyone here keep up with V and can give a quick rundown of how
| development of the language has been going? I used to keep up
| with it out of curiosity but haven't checked in in awhile.
| lazypenguin wrote:
| V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the
| criticisms are probably warranted. However, I personally enjoy
| seeing them out here hustling and really trying to make their
| language succeed despite all the shortcomings. As someone who
| skews more apathetic, I enjoy seeing people driven by so much
| passion.
|
| Now, it's time for me to be one of those critics! It's easy to
| promote the speed and size of your github alternative when it has
| a fraction of the features. I'll be curious to see where this
| goes and I think it has some value but only as a way to dogfood V
| itself.
| junon wrote:
| Can you perhaps link to some of said criticism? I'd be
| interested to read it.
| kangalioo wrote:
| Here is a nice mini series of blog posts about V
| https://christine.website/blog/series/v
| rozab wrote:
| The best bit is this excerpt from the standard library
| (2019): fn download_file(url, out string) {
| // println('\nDOWNLOAD FILE $out url=$url') // -L
| follow redirects // println('curl -L -o "$out"
| "$url"') os.system2('curl -s -L -o "$out"
| "$url"') // res := os.system('curl -s -L -o
| "$out" "$url"') // println(res) }
|
| Here's what that file looks like today: https://github.com/
| vlang/v/blob/master/vlib/net/http/downloa...
| amedvednikov wrote:
| No, this file is no longer used.
|
| We have a fully working net module:
|
| https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net/http
| pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
| In that case, you ought to be mocked for making a mess of
| the repository by keeping unused files in it.
| chousuke wrote:
| Come on, that's just mean.
|
| I don't really understand the negativity against V; is
| there something wrong with setting crazy goals if you're
| actually working towards them?
| SahAssar wrote:
| I don't get it, is that file's function bodies just
| comments now? Or does /* */ not mean a comment in V?
| Spivak wrote:
| I really don't understand why everyone is making fun of
| what is clearly a stub implementation. Have we not all
| written code like this so we can go work on some other
| part of the code that depends on this?
| pwdisswordfish8 wrote:
| Don't forget this one:
| https://christine.website/blog/OVE-20190623-0001
|
| I wouldn't even for a second using web-facing services from
| someone with a security track record this bad.
| pityJuke wrote:
| This HN User has been quite outspoken on his criticism:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=vlang1dot0
| tleb_ wrote:
| Some can be found in every thread about the project: https://
| hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
| penagwin wrote:
| > V and it's creator get a lot of flack here on HN and the
| criticisms are probably warranted.
|
| Hi fellow Penguin :D!
|
| I'm impressed by the creator's dedication here too, but he's
| clearly biting off more then he can chew - he's been saying
| that he's making a
|
| * Web framework * GUI framework * SQL ORM * A language that has
| a _lot_ of promises - seriously checkout their list. * Github
| alternative * VIM alternative
|
| This stuff is awesome as a project, but each one of these have
| teams of dedicated engineers sponsored by many companies to
| hammer out issues and make them as robust as possible. And
| while he certainly has working demo's of each, they're demos.
| There's a huge difference between a POC and a robust framework.
|
| A half baked framework is useless sadly, I think he's spreading
| himself too thin while have a roadmap that looks like a
| programmer's christmas list.
| machiaweliczny wrote:
| I think it's good test of lang features
| amedvednikov wrote:
| I'm not working on these alone :)
| 13415 wrote:
| While your here, thank you for the awesome work on the V
| language!
|
| It pretty much has the (for me, subjectively) ideal
| features of a small, fast, and static programming language.
| I've been following it for a while and I'm pretty sure I'll
| find a good use for it soon!
| amedvednikov wrote:
| Thanks! Glad you like it :)
| hobo_mark wrote:
| Also
|
| * package manager
|
| * operating system
| sdesol wrote:
| As the author states, he is not working alone as the
| following shows:
|
| https://public-001.gitsense.com/insights/github/repos?p=impa.
| ..
|
| When you have a large number of people in Zone 2 and nobody
| in Zone 1, this is a very good sign that effort is being
| fairly distributed. And if you look at the activity for the
| last year:
|
| https://public-001.gitsense.com/insights/github/repos?q=comm.
| ..
|
| it is extremely active with 98% days active. And if I had to
| guess, I would say there are at least 5-7 people working on
| this full time based on the following:
|
| https://public-001.gitsense.com/insights/github/repos?p=cont.
| ..
|
| Full Disclosure: I'm the creator of the tool with the
| insights above.
| amedvednikov wrote:
| Not full time, but 5-15 hours/week.
| sdesol wrote:
| Hey thanks for the insight. It looks like they are pretty
| productive hours then.
| vlang0dot2 wrote:
| the main issue is that most V projects never go past
| prototype phase :)
| [deleted]
| rvz wrote:
| > It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github
| alternative when it has a fraction of the features.
|
| I could have said that about Gogs years ago since a high school
| student made that in their spare time.
|
| Once projects become open-source, the community usually takes
| over that work. Just like many others, the same could happen to
| this project, just like how interested contributors did so with
| the V language as soon as that was open-sourced.
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| >It's easy to promote the speed and size of your github
| alternative when it has a fraction of the features.
|
| At leat this fraction of features works, what can't be said
| about gitlab and is only partially true for github. It shows
| repos, files, commits and what not, what features are missing?
| agumonkey wrote:
| i was annoyed by the hyperbolic ambitious claims but if the guy
| and his friends pour out solid code then there's nothing else
| to say :)
|
| also they seem to aim at frugal fat free programming, i cannot
| not like that
| turminal wrote:
| > if the guy and his friends pour out solid code then there's
| nothing else to say :)
|
| Unfortunately, they don't.
| agumonkey wrote:
| is gitly yet another imaginary revolution ? (honest
| question)
| crazy_horse wrote:
| Those that lie often either don't respect other people or
| they don't have the ability to know when they are lying.
| Which is scarier?
|
| Go, Nim, and Zig have similar focuses and their devs have put
| in years of public, good work.
|
| Some of the take downs at the time he was making his initial
| claims are absolutely brutal and make it clear that he not
| only couldn't back up his crazy claims, he wasn't getting the
| small stuff right.
|
| https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23
|
| He still hasn't learned.
| amedvednikov wrote:
| Hardly an unbiased article:
|
| > V can be bootstrapped in under a second by compiling its
| code translated to C with a simple cc v.c No libraries or
| dependencies needed.
|
| Git is a dependency, which means perl is a dependency,
| which means a shell is a dependency, which means glibc is a
| dependency, which means that a lot of other things
| (including posix threads) are also dependencies.
| Pedantically, you could even go as far as saying that you
| could count the Linux kernel, the processor being used and
| the like as dependencies, but that's a bit out of scope for
| this.
|
| ==============
|
| Ridiculous and unnecessary nitpicking.
|
| Also benchmarking the language with a debug build, using a
| slower backend, and while running vfmt.
|
| Here's a better benchmark: V compiling itself in 0.3
| seconds:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc
| nabakin wrote:
| So if it was a release build from the time, there
| wouldn't have been massive memory leaks, she would have
| been able to compile 1.2 million LoC per core per second,
| V would have only used 400kb of space to compile itself,
| and the curl binary wouldn't have been used for the
| download_file function? I agree that there's a cutoff
| where Linux dependencies don't really count as
| dependencies in this case.
| agumonkey wrote:
| I read that article, maybe .. maybe they wised up during
| the last 2 years.
| crazy_horse wrote:
| It's a very large amount for the most talented person to
| learn, much less build multiple production-grade systems
| with.
|
| We all should get some grace ofc, but does he also not
| need to show that he's learned not to make exaggerated
| claims? Otherwise there is no accountability and someone
| else gets fucked because they run across a bug because
| the dev didn't know use valgrind while claiming no memory
| leaks. I can't like that.
|
| How many people would love to get their service on HN for
| a few hours?
| nabakin wrote:
| The rest of her blog posts on V
|
| https://christine.website/blog/series/v
| xena wrote:
| I'm the author of that post if anyone has any questions.
| yongjik wrote:
| Some points in that page don't seem like valid criticism.
| Like, complaining that the compiler is not "zero
| dependency" on Linux, because it depends on glibc?
|
| Also, allocating a fixed 1000 byte region at the start of a
| program is not a "memory leak". In fact even glibc has tons
| of such "initial fixed cost" allocations - IIRC valgrind
| has built-in "suppression file" to ignore these
| allocations. (It _would_ be a memory leak if the compiler
| allocated new 1000 byte chunks every time println is
| called, but the article doesn 't demonstrate it so I guess
| I'll never know.)
| the_duke wrote:
| IIRC one of the original claims was to skip libc and do
| syscalls manually, like Go used to do on Linux.
|
| So listing it makes sense in that context.
| GoblinSlayer wrote:
| That sounds more like a bugfix. Doing syscalls manually
| is a rather perverse exercise, which go thoroughly
| proved.
| amedvednikov wrote:
| No, this was never claimed.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| CrazyPyroLinux wrote:
| I'm a big fan of GitBucket - It's like GitHub-in-a-WARfile
| https://gitbucket.github.io/
| amedvednikov wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Author of V and Gitly here.
|
| Gitly is currently in alpha, and works more like an
| example/documentation of the V web framework and V ORM.
|
| You can't even sign in at the moment.
|
| It will be launched this month. We're actually going to switch to
| Gitly CI, since Github Actions has been really slow for us.
| Zababa wrote:
| Good luck on your projects! You should probably add Gitea to
| your comparaisons, at it seems to be the closest to your
| project (written in Go, lightweight).
| NeckBeardPrince wrote:
| You might have trademark issues with Gitlab's Gitaly
| https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitaly
| zerr wrote:
| Saw your hiring post - may I ask, what funding did you get?
| Cavallium wrote:
| Looking at gitly repository it almost has no features, only a
| fraction of the basic git features are present, and they are
| barely working. Why is it being advertised here on HN as a fast
| alternative of github/gitlab?
|
| P.S.: Probably the website crashed, it's giving me 502 bad
| gateway from cloudflare
| amedvednikov wrote:
| 502 was fixed.
|
| I'm actually surprised it handled a front page HN traffic spike
| on a $3 VPS.
|
| That was a good test of V/vweb.
| Cavallium wrote:
| Now it's online
| pokstad wrote:
| Only 128MB of RAM? What happens when you try to GC a huge repo?
| This must mean only the non-git requirements. Under the covers
| either libgit2 or the git executable are being used, and those
| will use many resources depending on the operation.
| amedvednikov wrote:
| Well this is for average repos, you can't expect to run a huge
| multi gigabyte repo on the most basic instance. I'll make it
| clear.
| udia wrote:
| Good to see another open source git development platform. I am
| currently using sourcehut and am very happy with it.
|
| https://sourcehut.org/
| yewenjie wrote:
| They claim to be the fastest among all such platforms too.
|
| https://forgeperf.org/
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-08-04 23:02 UTC)