[HN Gopher] Dysregulated oxalate metabolism is a therapeutic tar...
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Dysregulated oxalate metabolism is a therapeutic target in
atherosclerosis
Author : voisin
Score : 62 points
Date : 2021-08-01 13:12 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cell.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
| gardenfelder wrote:
| In their extreme, oxalates can lead to oxalate nephropathy, a
| major affliction if kidneys. That can happen when Oxalobacter
| fermigenes is depleted in microbiome.
| nimish wrote:
| A cousin of the Warburg effect?
| garganzol wrote:
| Dysregulated oxalate metabolism is claimed to be just a
| dysfunctional metabolic pathway that leads to excess of
| oxalates.
|
| Warburg effect is a bit different. While the author Otto
| Warburg believed that cancer cells _preferred_ anaerobic
| (oxygen-less) glycolysis pathway, the modern view on this topic
| has evolved. Now we tend to believe that cancer cells maximize
| and exhaust all energy sources available to them. This includes
| a normal aerobic pathway. Once the mitochondria is stressed out
| and broken, it no longer is able to support the adequate levels
| of aerobic glycolysis. The host cell begins to starve in ATP
| and this is where the anaerobic pathway kicks in. So it is not
| that a cell has a specific preference; it is just a matter of
| survival and chemical auto-regulation.
|
| So no, Warburg effect is not really a cousin as far as I can
| see.
| wpasc wrote:
| Can anyone in the medical/nutrition/research field talk about the
| practicality of this finding (if any) on how people should
| moderate oxalate in their diet? Some of the healthiest foods have
| high oxalate levels, but I was under the impression it was one of
| those dietary fat != blood/bodily fat type things. Or how
| oxidants actually can help (in the right levels) by assisting in
| killing off errant and cancerous cells (which is why extreme over
| consumption of anti oxidants can hurt you)
| chillingeffect wrote:
| From my understanding, the main issue is impaired synthesis of
| glycine due to impaired/suppressed? genes. if you have that,
| you'd have to dramatically reduce oxalates to the point where
| it causes other problems. smarter to supplement glycine.
| garganzol wrote:
| > supplement glycine
|
| From the looks of it, the increased consumption of glycine
| supplements won't affect oxalate. Yes, glycine/oxalate ratio
| would be improved, but this would not decrease the amounts of
| oxalate. So the associated problems related to the excess of
| oxalate would persist.
| eigenrick wrote:
| Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, Oxalates aren't
| particularly high in the Western Diet.
|
| Cruciferous vegetables seem more a feature of the Mediterranean
| diet or standard diet?
|
| So I am assuming that the WD is lower in the necessary
| precursors for glycine production.
|
| Also, I'm assuming that glycine ingested directly would just be
| metabolized before being used in the liver.
|
| So the best actionable advice I can come up with is probably:
| "Eat more collagen"
| stevespang wrote:
| All nuts contain high levels of oxalates, an anti-nutrient.
| jz_ wrote:
| > one of those dietary fat != blood/bodily fat type things.
|
| What is meant by that though? Radio-labelling experiments do
| show that some dietary fat ends up as stored in fat cells.
|
| https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2362....
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopic_labeling
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| I study medical and nutritional research for fun. Papers like
| these are always interesting to me.
|
| Oxalates are a mixed bag, and are considered an "anti-
| nutrient", by binding nutrients and preventing absorption
| during digestion. Ex: Spinach has loads of calcium, but raw, is
| a poor source of calcium due to oxalate content. However,
| cooking foods with oxalates in them breaks down the oxalates
| and frees up the nutrients and partially prevents the anti-
| nutrient effect.
|
| Excessively high Vitamin C diets (don't supplement to
| ridiculous amounts, some people do), possibly in combination
| with low calcium diets (calcium in the body is used to flush
| oxalates out), can lead to increased risk of kidney stones in
| diets with high oxalate content. Having a genetic mutation that
| leads to increased risk of kidney stones can add to this.
| Please note, there is a lot of ifs in that statement I just
| said, each one of them independently increases risk, but
| generally do not reach problematic levels unless you do (or
| have) more than one.
|
| You shouldn't really worry about oxalates, just don't consume
| oxalate containing foods in absurd amounts, unless you already
| are at risk of forming the kind of kidney stones effected by
| oxalates, then you probably should switch to a low oxalate
| diet. As usual, talk to your doctor if you think you might be
| at risk.
| qwt wrote:
| > However, cooking foods with oxalates in them breaks down
| the oxalates and frees up the nutrients and partially
| prevents the anti-nutrient effect.
|
| This advice should be taken very carefully. The amount of
| oxalate removed is highly dependent on the cooking method and
| the food in question. Furthermore, some foods like spinach
| remain very high in oxalates in comparison to other foods
| even after preparation. Finally, cooking is not effective at
| reducing insoluble oxalates. It's probable that insoluble
| oxalates are less problematic, but I don't know of any good
| data showing they are harmless.
| newbamboo wrote:
| Drinking iced (black) tea is potentially deadly in quantities
| that some southerners might not see as absurd. https://health
| care.utah.edu/healthfeed/postings/2015/04/0423...
| kurthr wrote:
| For people with a predisposition to kidney stone this is
| already recommended (along with an increase in calcium intake).
|
| https://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/how-to-eat-a-low-oxalate-d...
| aenis wrote:
| I'd assume this article hints at the potential of using mRNA to
| treat arteriosclerosis.
|
| I'd be interesting to learn how fasting affects the expression
| of said gene. Thats the easiest intervention anyone can take.
| (FWIW, I've been treated with a 12 day supervised waterfasting
| therapy for NAFLD and it reduced the volume of my liver by
| nearly 20%).
| Gatsky wrote:
| Well the only human data is in figure 1, and it doesn't look
| that convincing. There seems to be a small difference in
| oxalate metabolism between people with/without coronary
| disease. They do a bunch of comparisons which aren't corrected
| for multiple testing, and then claim it is of some relevance
| which is the 'most significant' based on the lowest p.value.
| This is poor statistical practice if you ask me, such language
| should not be permitted in an academic paper, although this is
| utterly typical of nutritional science and life sciences in
| general. In any case, I think it is crazy to test the
| association between some nutritional/metabolic factor and a
| disease outcome in just 48 humans, the results are almost
| certainly bunk.
|
| The translation is that in actual humans, oxalate metabolism
| possibly isn't that important to cardiovascular outcomes on
| average. But it is probably important for some people.
| newbamboo wrote:
| This comes as very worrisome news as a heavy peanut consumer.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| I expect BPC-157 to be effective for this condition too
| https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.2174/13816128113199990421
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