[HN Gopher] As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an "attenti...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       As lockdowns lift, media firms brace for an "attention recession"
        
       Author : elsewhen
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2021-07-31 15:48 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | JCM9 wrote:
       | Good content wins. Media has gotten away with producing junk for
       | too long. Media complaining about a lack of "attention" is like
       | employers complaining about a lack of workers. Give people a good
       | job and pay them well and you'll have no trouble finding workers.
       | Produce good content and you'll have no trouble getting eyeballs.
       | Pretend like old normals still apply and it will be painful on
       | both fronts.
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | I think people are just exhausted and numb to what Hollywood, etc
       | has to offer.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | I've had it with the Marvel Overextended Universe, and Star
         | [Wars|Gate|Trek|Craft]. Time for something new.
        
           | xwolfi wrote:
           | It's fascinating to me that it lasted THAT long. I may have
           | seen a few of the first (like Daredevil decades ago?) and I
           | saw the "last" one, something about a giant who wanted to
           | destroyed the universe, failed but somewhat succeeded and a
           | bunch of weirdos had to go back in time ?
           | 
           | I mean I don't get it, it can't be for children anymore since
           | the entire thing started when I was a kid already and now I
           | have kids. I'm not american and what we say here is that
           | americans are so dumb they just rewatch the same "cape dude
           | in underwear" over and over again, with the same story with
           | small variations :s It must be a sort of puritan/christian
           | gay complex or something.
           | 
           | As for Star Wars under Disney, I find the Mandalorian
           | surprisingly nice with its contemplative slowness, the music,
           | the kind of out of the box new angle thing... But I guess
           | it's the same thing, how long are we going to watch the same
           | thing over and over again :D
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | I've had it with scripts written by corporate committees.
           | Star Wars _can_ be good, just not under Disney 's heel.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | The thing that makes me sad is that IMO the best Star Wars
             | film that came out since the Disney acquisition was Rogue
             | One (even though it trampled all over the expanded universe
             | novel Rebel Dawn, which I loved). Likely Disney views that
             | movie as their second-worst Star Wars outing (after Solo),
             | while I enjoyed it far more than episodes 7, 8, or 9.
             | 
             | On the optimistic side, I absolutely love The Mandalorian
             | (which I didn't expect, and resisted watching until after
             | season 2 was complete), and I'm looking forward to The Book
             | of Boba Fett as well.
             | 
             | But I absolutely agree with you on the failure of
             | "corporate written-by-committee". I think The Mandalorian
             | is so great in no small part because it's run by a small
             | number of people who really love Star Wars and have been
             | fortunate enough to be granted near-complete creative
             | control.
        
               | brundolf wrote:
               | I watched the first episode or two and wasn't that
               | impressed. It just felt like a pretty generic
               | action/adventure storyline with Star Wars... stuff,
               | plastered over it in a fairly superficial way.
               | 
               | Which is how I feel about most big franchise movies these
               | days; they all just feel like cookie-cutter action flicks
               | with some IP draped over top to promote the theme park
               | and/or Fortnite tie-in. Nothing interesting or surprising
               | ever happens. Nothing worth mentioning in terms of
               | emotional spectrum. Even the set design - which is always
               | very handsomely executed - is just ruthlessly on-brand.
               | It looks precisely like "Star Wars stuff" or "Marvel
               | stuff" or whatever, without exception, to a point where
               | it all just becomes branded noise. Not a single thing is
               | new or out of place. It constantly calls back and feeds
               | into itself; nothing new under the sun.
               | 
               | I agree that Rogue One was a little bit of an exception,
               | at least in terms of plot/emotions. I would also put
               | Episode 8 in that category.
               | 
               | Maybe I'm just watching the wrong kinds of movies.
        
           | tomjen3 wrote:
           | I will watch Picard season two whenever it comes out. I just
           | ordered STG:1 on DVD, and will probably do Atlantis after
           | that. If keeping up with the Cardashians had been what I
           | thought it was, I would definitely be watching that too.
           | 
           | Those aren't bad TV shows, unlike most of Marvel. I think
           | maybe that is because they actually believe in/stand for
           | something, as opposed to just being boobs and fights.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | Thankfully, with delta varient the media can rejoice for more
       | lockdowns
        
       | Fellshard wrote:
       | If you think they'll simply allow this to happen, I've got a UHF
       | channel in Brooklyn to sell you.
        
       | JadeNB wrote:
       | I was wondering if even The Economist was so out of touch as to
       | fail to notice that the trend was moving _away_ from lockdowns
       | lifting, but I see that the article is from July 3, when things
       | looked rather different.
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | Are lockdowns coming back in the UK for real? I had the
         | opposite impression from the news in the last two weeks. Some
         | concern about variants, a push for vaccine passports from
         | Boris' cabinet, but no much talk of lockdowns. Please remember,
         | The Economist is a British magazine. There is a world outside
         | American borders.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | "Fog in channel, continent isolated".
           | 
           | Really, though, the Economist isn't isolationist.
           | 
           | As Fauci once said, "the virus sets the timetable". The Delta
           | variant is a big worry. R0 is 8 to 9. If hospitals get
           | overwhelmed, there may be lockdowns again, at least for
           | unvaccinated people.
        
             | ummwhat wrote:
             | The estimates I've seen vary from 4-8 so it's not a sure
             | thing if we do/don't have herd immunity.
             | 
             | I keep saying we should be masking and standing apart now
             | so that hopefully we can nudge r0 down a bit and avoid
             | lockdowns, but everyone's so relieved to be done that i may
             | as well be pissing against the wind.
        
             | spiderice wrote:
             | You can't realistically have lockdowns for unvaccinated
             | people. People who don't get vaccinated are the same people
             | who have the biggest problem with lockdowns. They simply
             | won't do it.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | Well, you kind of _can_, to some extent. Here, for
               | instance, you need a vaccine cert to go indoors in pubs
               | and restaurants (unvaccinated people can still eat
               | outside). That said, there obviously won't be the
               | political will for that everywhere; even before this was
               | introduced Ireland only had 5-10% of people saying they
               | wouldn't get vaccinated, so it wasn't a huge deal.
        
           | JadeNB wrote:
           | I expect lockdowns to come back neither in the US nor in the
           | UK, but hope for them to come back in both places.
        
             | brink wrote:
             | Yeah, you can keep your economic and psychological ruin to
             | yourself, thanks.
        
             | infamouscow wrote:
             | Stay at home if you're too afraid to go outside.
        
             | heurisko wrote:
             | In the UK, lockdowns doubled mental health referrals
             | amongst young people [1] and there was a sharp increase in
             | alcohol related deaths [2].
             | 
             | I hope they don't return, given we now have a vaccine. I
             | also doubt their efficacy, with cases declining in some
             | cases before lockdowns began.
             | 
             | They are not a cost-free public health tool, and it is
             | unknown whether they have caused more harm than good.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/15/young-
             | mental...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/15/surge-
             | in-alc...
        
       | jgalt212 wrote:
       | The Delta variant is their great white hope.
        
       | 4t3gar wrote:
       | Rachel Walensky's face needs to be beaten with a sledgehammer.
       | 
       | Fascist cock-sucking liberal piece of shit.
        
       | hmsshagatsea wrote:
       | How about hollywood starts making GOOD content again?
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | Disney still has more money to milk from its Star Wars, Marvel,
         | and Pixar IP.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | I was definitely spoiled by movies when I was growing up.
         | Because of industry circumstances, 1999 was a very good year
         | for movies. I can't think of recent movies that would be
         | considered this generation's "Fight Club," "The Matrix," or
         | "Office Space." On the plus side, there's currently a plethora
         | of adequately entertaining movies for long-haul flights.
         | 
         | Some reading on 1999:
         | https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a23803/1999-mov...
        
           | Vomzor wrote:
           | One of my favorites from 1999 is October Sky.
           | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132477/
        
         | legrande wrote:
         | > How about hollywood starts making GOOD content again?
         | 
         | Well I'm expecting a new surge of great movies coming out after
         | everyone's vaccinated. Looking forward to the 2021 version of
         | _Dune_ , although I don't think that was spurred on because of
         | the pandemic (maybe I'm wrong?). Expect some epic movies to
         | come out in the next few years.
        
           | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
           | Dune isn't going to suck because of the pandemic. It's going
           | to suck because of the pg-13 rating.
        
             | Slow_Hand wrote:
             | What element of Dune do you think would suffer by not
             | having an 'R' rating? It's not as if the book is reliant on
             | anything exceptionally violent or obscene. Probably the
             | darkest element is the reference to The Baron's rape of
             | young people. Frankly that's better off as something to be
             | implied and not depicted.
             | 
             | I think you can get away with enough in a PG-13 to suit the
             | tone of this story. Watching the recent trailer you can
             | catch a glimpse of what appear to be prisoners of war
             | strapped upside down on troughs that will collect the blood
             | from their slit throats. That's pretty dark. And seemingly
             | it's an addition by the filmakers. It's not an element from
             | the book.
        
               | hmsshagatsea wrote:
               | It's not the R rating necessarily, it's how they've
               | sanitized the story. The whole book is rife with
               | islamic/arabic and at least from the trailer they've
               | anglicized everything, which doesn't give me much hope. I
               | really don't see a reason for it.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | I read that huge overseas revenues from reliable blockbuster
         | franchises help to subside less profitable niches.
        
         | yepthatsreality wrote:
         | I remember when the first Avengers movie came out, a lot of my
         | industry friends repeated some nonsense line about how we need
         | to see Blockbusters so that the money can trickle down to
         | independent filmmakers and riskier ideas. 10 years later and
         | the market is saturated with super hero films, the independent
         | directors are all directing Disney blockbusters, and the
         | riskier ideas only get a spotlight during Oscar season
         | (unchanged).
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | When GOOD content sells, they will.
         | 
         | The best films of the year regularly make less money in their
         | entire lifespan than a mediocre Marvel movie.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | That's because "good" depends on who you ask.
           | 
           | The free market produces for the masses.
        
         | throwaway803453 wrote:
         | Or it will just come from outside of Hollywood. _La Casa De
         | Papel_ (aka Money Heist) is so good I am probably going to
         | cancel Netflix since it 's taking away from my nightly reading
         | time and affecting the quality of my sleep.
        
         | mycodesucks wrote:
         | Nah, more of the same super hero garbage please, uhg.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hotcold wrote:
         | Absolutely not, the central theme of every movie, sporting
         | event, advertisement, or news article must be DIVERSITY
         | DIVERSITY DIVERSITY!
        
           | Hammershaft wrote:
           | In a movie landscape of formulaic sequels, uninspired
           | remakes, endless superhero flicks, and a total lack of
           | original ips... why is more diversity the first factor you
           | jump to?
        
             | hotcold wrote:
             | The new variable in the equation, and the only one I hear
             | people complaining about. The things you mention have
             | always existed and people were able to sift through them to
             | find the gems. However the more recent subtle political
             | messaging, sprinkled into most modern media, really turns
             | people off.
        
             | paulpauper wrote:
             | Same story but more diversity in casting
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | The forced unreal diversity makes things unbelievable. The
             | black and white couple with only gay Asian children under
             | 10 with a Latino teenager makes everything into a farce.
             | All of those things happen but not all at once all of the
             | time. It's labelled as progressive but it's regressive and
             | mocks each minority group along the way.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | > The black and white couple with only gay Asian children
               | under 10 with a Latino teenager makes everything into a
               | farce.
               | 
               | That doesn't happen. No one is writing movies where
               | people who aren't Latino just have Latino children to
               | score "progressive points" or whatever.
               | 
               | Interracial couples do exist. Asians and Latinos exist,
               | and their portrayal in media isn't any more "progressive"
               | than portraying any other race or ethnicity, it's just
               | realistic. And anyone of any race, including interracial
               | couples, can have gay children. Most of the "farce"
               | you've described is perfectly normal.
               | 
               | >It's labelled as progressive but it's regressive and
               | mocks each minority group along the way.
               | 
               | I doubt there is anyone in any minority group who feels
               | mocked by greater representation. But, as a Gay Black
               | Asian Latino yourself, you can probably tell us what it's
               | like.
        
               | slibhb wrote:
               | > I doubt there is anyone in any minority group who feels
               | mocked by greater representation. But, as a Gay Black
               | Asian Latino yourself, you can probably tell us what it's
               | like.
               | 
               | Are you unfamiliar with the concept of tokenism?
               | 
               | To me and to many others, though not to you, certain
               | parts seem to exist purely to collect diversity points.
               | This seems like pandering to me, and I expect it is
               | insulting to anyone who views it that way. For some
               | people, being a token is even more demeaning than being
               | excluded.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | Sure, having the one black or gay character in a tv show
               | is obvious tokenism, particularly when portrayed as
               | shallow stereotype, but it seems to me as if _any_
               | attempt at representation nowadays is written off as
               | "political" or tokenism, even when it's sincere.
               | 
               | It's like, you can have Asians OR Latinos OR Blacks OR
               | gays but no more than two, and they can't stack, and you
               | _definitely_ can 't rewrite an existing character to
               | represent some other race, religion, gender, sex or
               | nationality even if you yourself _are_ of that race,
               | religion, gender, sex or nationality. That 's a narrow
               | minded view and unfortunately a common one.
        
               | slibhb wrote:
               | > Sure, having the one black or gay character in a tv
               | show is obvious tokenism, particularly when portrayed as
               | shallow stereotype, but it seems to me as if any attempt
               | at representation nowadays is written off as "political"
               | or tokenism, even when it's sincere.
               | 
               | This is the crux of the issue. To me, "attempts at
               | representation" are demeaning _by definition_. Giving
               | someone a part because of their skin color or sex or
               | sexual orientation is demeaning.
               | 
               | Diversity has to be genuine for it to be good. You have
               | to cast an actor or write a part because you thought the
               | actor was good or the part works, not as part of an
               | "attempt at representation".
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | >To me, "attempts at representation" are demeaning by
               | definition. Giving someone a part because of their skin
               | color or sex or sexual orientation is demeaning.
               | 
               | Aren't you moving the goalposts? I thought we were
               | talking about characters, not actors. Two entirely
               | different arguments, and I know a lot of LGBTQ+ people
               | who _would_ be offended at a straight person playing gay
               | or transgender, and a lot of POC people who take issue
               | with  "whitewashing" in Hollywood. But the people who
               | complain about the "agenda" behind non-straight, non-
               | white characters don't tend to complain when non-white
               | roles get cast by white actors.
               | 
               | Do you consider writing non-white, non-straight
               | characters to be demeaning by definition?
               | 
               | Is a Muslim, Pakistani-American Ms. Marvel demeaning to
               | Muslims and Pakistanis? In a field where Muslims and
               | Middle-Easterners are rarely portrayed in a positive
               | light, if at all? Even if Kamala Khan is _written_ by a
               | Pakistani Muslim, and based partly on her own lived
               | experiences?
               | 
               | Is adding the possibility of gay romance or sex in a
               | video game demeaning to gay people? If so, why isn't
               | straight sex in a video game isn't demeaning to straight
               | people?
               | 
               | >You have to cast an actor or write a part because you
               | thought the actor was good or the part works, not as part
               | of an "attempt at representation".
               | 
               | And what I'm saying is that's exactly what happens more
               | often than you and many people seem willing to believe.
               | It's just assumed that every non-white, non-straight
               | character or role exists only for the sake of "diversity
               | points."
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | Yeah, if all characters are white guys, we know it is
               | because of them being all super awesome. Mediocre white
               | guy characters are everywhere and where everywhere. Why
               | is it such an insult to be those roles filled by others?
        
               | Enginerrrd wrote:
               | I agree. There's also the issue that typically the token
               | minorities really seem to be sanitized of their actual
               | culture too. They're white characters played by minority
               | actors. And as a result, it feels patronizing to the
               | viewer and the minorities.
        
           | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
           | It's almost as if Californian casting directors have never
           | been to any part of the country besides SF, LA, NYC, or
           | Seattle.
        
           | patrick451 wrote:
           | Yup. Most of entertainment has turned into leftist
           | propaganda. It's simultaneously banal and offensive.
        
             | gred wrote:
             | Interestingly, this has been pushing me to watch quite a
             | bit of international content on Netflix -- Korean,
             | Japanese, Chinese, and some European series.
        
         | jondwillis wrote:
         | May I direct you to every single A24 film?
        
           | kmlx wrote:
           | there are lots of a24 studios out there. but they're tiny,
           | they release few films with modest revenues.
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | not sure if this is coming back anytime soon:
         | 
         | 1. games are a much bigger market than movies, which makes
         | hollywood even more risk averse than usual
         | 
         | 2. superhero movies make most income, sucking up all the talent
         | 
         | 3. huge emphasis on TV series in the last decade, again sucking
         | up all the talent
         | 
         | for these three reasons i'm not sure if i'll see another sin
         | city/training day/etc in the near future
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | Tv is a better format for visual story telling then movies
           | could ever be. now that we have streaming its not bound to
           | time limits or irrelevant commercial pacing. The stories are
           | longer and can be more in depth.
           | 
           | Does TV get the best talent though? For some reason I thought
           | they get paid less despite doing alot more work. All those
           | actors from got went on to try movies afterwards.
        
             | cronix wrote:
             | > For some reason I thought they get paid less despite
             | doing alot more work.
             | 
             | Are American TV shows as big of money makers globally as
             | the movie industry? How much do American TV shows make in
             | China vs Hollywood? Are they even shown? I don't know, but
             | have never heard of it but have heard quite a bit about how
             | much Hollywood makes in China.
             | 
             | I don't think it's the amount of work that dictates lower
             | salaries for TV acting, but more likely the size of the
             | market that the respective products are sold in and where
             | that market is located (locally vs globally).
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | More likely, in my opinion, is the the stories can also be
             | too long and all over the place.
        
               | tayo42 wrote:
               | That's true, the potential is higher with TV I think
               | think though. Story telling is a skill that anyone can
               | screw up independent of the medium
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | I can totally imagine that. I cancelled my TV subscription as it
       | was all about corona all the time. So depressing.
       | 
       | Now that I've done without for so long I don't think ever getting
       | live TV again. My use of mainstream news sites has also dropped
       | to near zero, just a one check per day. I focus more on tech news
       | these days (stuff that really matters :) )
        
         | marto1 wrote:
         | Now realize a lot of people just..kept watching. Scary stuff.
        
       | Mountain_Skies wrote:
       | Ratings for sporting events are down dramatically. People
       | generally aren't returning to movie theaters. According to the
       | article, overall media consumption is up 30 minutes per week,
       | which makes me wonder if what happened was mostly a case of habit
       | destruction. Now that habits have been disturbed, trends that
       | were already taking place were accelerated. Is there any reason
       | to think people will break their new habits to go back to their
       | old habits as freedoms are slowly restored?
       | 
       | AMC is looking into showing live events such as college football,
       | world sports, and concerts. So they seem aware that movies are no
       | longer enough to keep them afloat. Can they build new habits? Be
       | a family friendly alternative to the sports bar for alumni
       | groups? In a landscape of broken habits, maybe, maybe not. Big
       | screens at home are cheap and so are the food and drinks. What's
       | missing is a sense of community. Can they deliver on that?
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | correct. the trend was down even before covid, it's just that
         | instead of covid people's attention was in politics, and often
         | stupid politics. I somehow wish the attention will shift to who
         | can develop a vaccine/cure first, but i m not holding my breath
         | for that
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | In the last year I've cancelled my cable service, totally
         | deleted facebook and twitter accounts, quit watching (new)
         | movies, quit watching pro sports and several other things. Why?
         | I feel like I'm being preached to constantly rather than
         | entertained, and not just a little bit here and there. It's
         | constant. I refuse to pay for it or be a part of it. It offers
         | no value to me anymore. Why would I pay for or be a part of
         | something that just irritates me? It seems most movies are just
         | running the same formula for the last 20 years and, well, I've
         | seen it. Hyper-realistic non-stop over the top garbage and woke
         | super heroes. Yay. There is no originality or good story line,
         | with few exceptions. It's all messaging, and it's completely
         | obvious. Messaging was always there, sure, but now it's just
         | overly blatant and constant. It's not just a well-placed can of
         | Coke in the shot. And sports...used to be an avid NBA fan.
         | Haven't watched a single game in the last year+ since it became
         | about political messaging rather than athletic prowess and
         | physical competition. If I want to watch political opinions,
         | I'll watch a political news show - not a "professional"
         | basketball game. In short, the products suck and not worth my
         | time or money, so I no longer participate.
        
           | neolog wrote:
           | relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU
        
         | briefcomment wrote:
         | N=1, I spend all my media time on Youtube. Haven't watched a
         | show in years. Watched some of the NBA playoffs though. Also
         | watched Tenet in a huge empty theater.
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | > Also watched Tenet in a huge empty theater.
           | 
           | Same, what a great experience. I don't mind the experience of
           | a busy theatre but watching a movie in a comfy centre seat
           | all by your lonesome is pretty rad.
        
           | akudha wrote:
           | I wonder if this will result in more outrageous, more
           | clickbait junk from media outlets, desperate for audience
           | attention. Even more than it is now.
           | 
           | I am spending more time on YouTube too. I used to watch
           | Netflix, but it has been downhill last 3 years or so.
        
             | ehnto wrote:
             | What's strange to me is that while YouTube seems to be
             | stealing a lot of attention, the creators on the platform
             | are so often complaining the platform and having to build
             | out non-platform revenue streams in order for it to make
             | sense.
             | 
             | Is it that they expect more than their fair share, or is
             | YouTube leveraging their creators more than they should, or
             | are adblockers the issue? I'm not sure what it is, it just
             | surprises me that there seems to be unwavering consumption
             | and creation on the platform but the numbers aren't lining
             | up for the creators.
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | Anyone can be a creator. You have to be pulling in
               | millions of views from people that are valuable to
               | advertise to (not all views are created equally) in order
               | to make a career out of it.
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | And even then it's flash-in-a-pan stuff for the most
               | part. My YouTube viewing very often consists of getting
               | interested in a creator, watching a lot of their stuff
               | for a while, slowly getting bored as it gets repetitive,
               | then moving on. This happens sometimes in weeks,
               | sometimes in months, sometimes in only days. There's
               | nobody I watch year after year.
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | I don't know if this is a case of fair or unfair, so much
               | as there is a lot of potential value that isn't captured
               | by YouTube ads, which the creators would be silly to
               | leave on the table, but which Google has not historically
               | been positioned to capture. The ability to join channels
               | is an attempt to make inroads on that value, but it seems
               | like it will take some doing before that vehicle catches
               | up to Patreon if it ever does.
        
               | showerst wrote:
               | Another possibility you didn't mention is that many
               | creators aren't creating as much value as they think
               | they're worth.
        
               | jlokier wrote:
               | This video from Veritasium goes into more about Youtuber
               | burnout, self-blame, dynamics and the drive to non-
               | platform revenue streams:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHsa9DqmId8
               | 
               | If you find the apparent contradiction between Youtube
               | success and creators needing to built out non-platform
               | revenue streams strange, the video gives a pretty good
               | theory explaining why.
               | 
               | It's possible that a small number of creators are taking
               | most of the revenue at any particular time, and the set
               | of outstandingly successful creators keeps changing,
               | which it might due to the promotion algorithm.
               | 
               | That gives all of them reasons to build out non-platform
               | revenue streams.
               | 
               | I'm not saying Google/YouTube aren't taking too much. But
               | hypothetically, even if they took 0% cut, the above could
               | still happen.
        
             | drewg123 wrote:
             | I alternate between YT and Netflix.
             | 
             | The problem I have with YT is the paralysis of choice in
             | deciding which of a zillion videos to watch. When I have a
             | show to binge, its much easier to just jump into it relax
             | without thinking about what to watch
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I'm looking forward to returning to a movie theater. Though
         | only Alamo, which was really the only one I went to pre-
         | pandemic anyway, because the rest of the industry was already
         | in shambles. Alamo is the only chain I know of whose experience
         | has evolved past "big screen and big speakers and overpriced
         | snacks".
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | Alamo is amazing. More businesses should follow their
           | example.
        
             | brundolf wrote:
             | I think their secret is being run by people who are
             | actually into movies, instead of people who are only into
             | money
        
               | Animats wrote:
               | Their "secret" is a liquor license.
        
               | tolbish wrote:
               | There are several movie theaters that serve alcohol. The
               | Alamo Drafthouse is the only place that tries to make the
               | movie going experience a genuine blast.
        
           | sodality2 wrote:
           | What, exactly, is special about Alamo? I'm unfamiliar.
        
             | agrocrag wrote:
             | I'll Stan Alamo til the day I die. Even took my family
             | there immediately after I got married ha!
             | 
             | Here is why Alamo has set the bar high for being more than
             | a "movie theater", in no particular order: 1. Their
             | programming AKA the movies they choose to show is highly
             | curated. You'll have your standard summer blockbusters, a
             | weird Wednesday film (usually a cult classic from the past
             | generations), screenings with Q&A after the film with
             | directors, actors, etc. As a movie goer I engage a ton with
             | their marketing to look out for these events, because yes,
             | I would absolutely love to see Uncut Gems and have the
             | Safdie brothers and Adam Sandler talk about their
             | experience. Those are more rare but just another
             | opportunity to create a long lasting memory of a film, even
             | if it sucked.
             | 
             | 2. The pre-programming is custom, curated and so clever, it
             | makes me ALWAYS want to get there earlier. For most movies
             | they find similar footage or clips that have intertwining
             | themes to the main film (early footage of actors in the
             | movie, etc). It's usually on the funnier side of things.
             | 
             | 3. The no bs talking and phones policy is amazing. It's
             | enforced and if you want to experiment being a rat, you can
             | even alert servers of guests that are breaking the rules
             | without fear of retaliation. Finally a place to enjoy the
             | film without most distractions.
             | 
             | 4. It's nice to plan a dinner and a movie and have it be
             | all in one place. While the food is fine and not completely
             | mind blowing, it's good for a movie night and the popcorn
             | is fantastic. Also +1 the queso as well. Alcohol selection
             | is great and you can basically order whatever you want and
             | will likely be able to make it (cocktail-wise).
             | 
             | 5. When it existed, the Alamo season pass was amazing. $30
             | bucks a month, a movie a day and you select your seat ahead
             | of time (you select your seat regardless of the pass, but
             | still). I hope it comes back!
             | 
             | Some downsides: 1. You sometimes will smell food that might
             | not be your favorite. Your a veggie that doesn't like the
             | smell of a burger, sorry, you likely are gonna have all the
             | food smells.
             | 
             | 2. Servers darting around the theatre for a lot of the
             | movie. They are usually pretty sneaky but you get some
             | Paperboy PTSD of enemies coming out in your peripheral
             | vision.
             | 
             | 3. YMMV with each Alamo. Pre-pandemic some were franchises
             | and some were corporate. The corporate ones were so much
             | better and the franchises just seemed to be poorly run
             | across the board.
             | 
             | So many other things they hit out of the park, screenings
             | for families and folks with autism (you can talk, etc) as
             | well as screenings for parents with young kids (more
             | talking and likely some more crying). Lots of accessibility
             | screenings for the deaf and blind. The list goes on...
             | 
             | If The restructure for Alamo works out, you'll be seeing
             | more and more of the old guard changing things to align
             | more like Alamo, and that definitely will be a good thing
             | for the film industry. Just my 2C/
        
             | tenebrisalietum wrote:
             | They kick out people who text or talk during movies and
             | they were the first theater I heard of that served alcohol
             | and food.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | Only through coincidence of living where it was founded
               | at the time, Warren Theater beat Alamo by about a year.
               | I'm only mentioning as when it opened they had
               | limitations I found interesting. The small swivel tabels
               | at each seat apparently somehow failed THX certification
               | so when they first opened, you'd have to set the plate of
               | food in your lap. I found it incredible that the tables
               | somehow had a bearing on the THX certification of the
               | theater.
        
               | nitrogen wrote:
               | THX probably specifies a stat like RT60 reverb time, or
               | EQ matching the target curve, or prominence of early
               | reflections, and the tables (big flat reflective
               | surfaces) probably threw off that metric.
        
             | brundolf wrote:
             | On the surface, they serve decently good food and an array
             | of cocktails and other beverages, and it generally isn't
             | overpriced. They have great milkshakes and they'll bring
             | you warm cookies just as soon as a giant bowl of popcorn
             | with parmesan.
             | 
             | But that stuff isn't strictly unique anymore; there are
             | other dinner-and-movie chains.
             | 
             | What really makes them special is all their auxiliary
             | stuff. Before a movie, instead of ads they show relevant
             | obscure video clips that are funny and/or interesting.
             | Before a superhero movie they might show relevant action
             | figure commercials from the 80s, or clips of goofy
             | unlicensed knockoff movies that they found on YouTube, etc.
             | Famously, you're not allowed to talk/text once a movie is
             | playing [1]. They'll have themed cocktails and food for
             | movies that are currently showing. Every month they pick a
             | selection of classic movies and do showings of those
             | throughout. Sometimes they'll bring in an actor or the
             | director for after-screening Q&A. For cult hits they'll do
             | themed "movie parties" where everybody's encouraged to
             | quote/sing-along, and often there are props. We went to a
             | Monty Python and the Holy Grail party where everyone was
             | given, among other things, coconut shells to clap. We saw
             | Hackers on the big screen (which was incredible in its own
             | right), and everyone was encouraged to wear their best
             | hacker-punk getups and then they had a costume contest (and
             | we got to take home floppy disks with "HACK THE PLANET"
             | emblazoned on them). We saw Akira on the big screen (!!)
             | and they had a synchronized laser-lightshow in the theater.
             | We went to an "anime brunch" they did several Sunday
             | mornings in a row where they'd pick a genre of anime and
             | show four or five episodes from different shows and you
             | could order coffee and stuff and it only cost $5 at the
             | door.
             | 
             | And the person hosting/organizing these events always comes
             | up to the front and talks about the thing you're going to
             | be watching. They're personally invested. They geek out,
             | telling anecdotes from their own life and giving background
             | on why people love this thing so much. It gets you excited
             | even if you've never heard of it before.
             | 
             | Everything - even the decorations and marketing - gives you
             | the distinct sense that everyone calling the shots at this
             | company is super into movies, and their enthusiasm is
             | contagious even if you don't consider yourself an
             | enthusiast
             | 
             | [1] Except at movie-parties, which are all about audience
             | participation
        
               | sampo wrote:
               | If they serve dishes, doesn't the sound of forks and
               | knives hitting the plates when people eat, get annoying
               | while watching a movie? Or is it all the kind of food
               | Americans eat with their hands?
        
               | brundolf wrote:
               | A lot of it is hand-food, yeah, which I'd never thought
               | about but it makes sense. Most of the dishes are also
               | made of some sort of plastic-composite instead of ceramic
               | or metal, which probably helps. In either case I haven't
               | really noticed the noise; I'm more likely to notice
               | someone loudly chomping popcorn a couple seats over than
               | forks clanging on dishes, which, what can you do. Another
               | thing that helps is almost nobody orders boxed candy
               | because you can get much better desserts, so you never
               | hear M&M's and such rattling around. Glasses are also
               | open-top, so there's no straw squeaking either.
        
               | Hammershaft wrote:
               | That sounds amazing! I'd happily pay more for a movie
               | experience like that
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | Movies, as in 2 hour stories that you consume in a physical
         | location outside your house, are never gonna return to what
         | they were. What will survive is "a fun location outside the
         | house to watch a screen with incredible sound + picture" with
         | your friends / a date / kids. That market should remain
         | lucrative, cause people aren't gonna wanna be in the house all
         | day / weekend and it's gonna remain a relatively cheap night
         | out.
        
         | drewg123 wrote:
         | Movie theaters can't go out of business soon enough for me.
         | 
         | I hate being trapped with rude people talking and using their
         | phones during the movie. Not to mention people who don't
         | believe in baby sitters, and bring their infant or toddler
         | along for a good scream fest in the middle of the show. And
         | don't get me started on loud eaters, flatulent people, etc.
         | 
         | I think they've been on borrowed time since the 80s, when video
         | stores got big. First run movies are their only hook now, and
         | they're loosing even that with movies like Black Widow
         | premiering on streaming. I hope more films premiere on
         | streaming.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Uh, you can just watch movies at home if you don't like
           | theaters ...
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | Live sports is wrapped around groups a lot too. Which also begs
         | the question of are people actually watching the ads in a bar
         | or party..
         | 
         | The move to streaming for sports is bad.
         | 
         | I signed up for paid Hulu to watch olympics. It's grossly
         | expensive, with ads still, and really confusing. I learned the
         | hard way the only way to actually watch the events I wanted to
         | I had to advance DVR them.
         | 
         | Instead of just listing them as videos, like netflix youtube
         | and the rest of the world. The only stand alone videos I have
         | access too without DVR are short 5 minute summary clips. And
         | the DVR recorded broadcasts you have to manually figure out and
         | skip over commercials and manually find the events in a 2 hour
         | broadcast. I remember the super old tv connected DVRs
         | recognized ads to skip. PornHub and YouTube can automatically
         | mark content changes on the timeline.
        
       | robertofmoria wrote:
       | There is this strange talk of breaking the habit when it comes to
       | entertainment. The "habit" was already breaking, but not because
       | people do not want to go to theaters. People were turning off,
       | tuning out, and not going because shows, sports, and movies were
       | no longer providing escapes. Everything is becoming political and
       | lecturing.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | This would be the best thing for improved mental health in many
       | years.
        
       | grae_QED wrote:
       | Good. I hope they all go out of business. Their predatory
       | practices are the reason why social media is so toxic. I'm
       | honestly amazed that companies haven't figured out that
       | advertisements are far less effective than they claim to be and
       | they are probably over spending on them [1].
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/research/resear...
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | The largest media companies are loss-leaders for telecom
         | conglomerates. They don't actually need to be profitable.
        
           | the-dude wrote:
           | Could you expand on this? I don't get it.
        
             | TechBro8615 wrote:
             | I mean that Comcast, ATT and Verizon collectively own a
             | large portion of US media corporations - including CNN and
             | MSNBC. You can quibble about the semantics of ownership,
             | but the control of media is concentrated in a small cluster
             | of last century's monopolies.
             | 
             | There is an infographic here:
             | https://techstartups.com/2020/09/18/6-corporations-
             | control-9...
        
               | dehrmann wrote:
               | > You can quibble about the semantics of ownership
               | 
               | AT&T spun out Time Warner and merged it with Discovery
               | because it had no idea what to do with it or how to run a
               | media company.
               | 
               | Comcast only bought NBC Universal in 2011. Only _one_
               | major media company (and not even the biggest one) could
               | arguably be a loss leader for a telco. The rest are doing
               | their own thing.
        
               | the-dude wrote:
               | Are you basically saying the large media companies are
               | kept alive to keep people on cable?
        
               | username90 wrote:
               | I don't think it has to serve a purpose other than power
               | projection for the rich owners. I'd say that owning all
               | media is the best bang for your buck if you want to to
               | convert money to power.
        
               | shadilay wrote:
               | Big media exists to define the overton window for the
               | plebs.
        
             | pwg wrote:
             | I believe the OP is referencing the fact that over the
             | years, the cable tv/telephone groups have been buying up
             | production houses (i.e., Time-Warner owned by AT&T,
             | NBCUniversal owned by Comcast, etc.) and is implying that
             | the owner (AT&T, Comcast) owns the production house (Time-
             | Warner, NBCUniversal) not to directly profit from the
             | production house output per. se., but to provide content
             | with which to use to incentivize people into paying for
             | their other media distribution products.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | People were predicting this a decade ago, such as after
         | Facebook ipo. Many huge companies do not care about roi in the
         | same way small biz does. They just want to spend as much as
         | possible to get the word out about a new product.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | Put another way, I think after a certain amount of money, the
           | owners (or executives, really) of these sorts of companies
           | are more interested in power projection and influence than
           | they are in immense profitability for the companies they run.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | decodebytes wrote:
         | It really is. The stuff facebook serves to me is just so badly
         | wrong it's hilarious that they are taken someone's money to
         | show me an add which if anything is going to result in me even
         | less likely to buy the product
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | I feel this way about traditional broadcast/cable. BUT I think
         | the side effect of dwindling audiences is far worse in
         | toxicity. Look at NewsMax and Fox. They cater to more extreme
         | more engaged viewers, at the expense of reality and the health
         | of the rest of us.
        
         | citizenpaul wrote:
         | > amazed that companies haven't figured out that advertisements
         | are far less effective than they claim to be
         | 
         | I was once asked to do some stats on the marketing
         | effectiveness of a company I was at. Not my job but I really
         | hated a couple of the people in the marketing dept so I went at
         | the task anyway. I had long had suspicious that the advertising
         | was mostly smoke and mirrors so I was glad to find out that I
         | was right. There was basically no correlation to sales and
         | marketing spending, campaigns or anything they were doing.
         | Except for a couple of basic common sense ad placements. They
         | were wasting millions a year.
         | 
         | What do you think happened? Surprise happy ending. At the end
         | of the year they shut down the marketing dept and outsourced
         | the basic ad placements for a fixed fee.
        
           | hogFeast wrote:
           | This depends very heavily on the product. With some products,
           | for example food, you have to win your customer back every
           | month. Additionally, it is often very difficult to correlate
           | certain kinds of ads to sales...but if you look at the
           | marketing investment over decades in some industries, it is
           | probably the only source of competitive advantage.
           | 
           | That being said, given that most people here work for tech
           | companies, I do suspect there is huge overinvestment into
           | marketing by tech companies. Some companies just don't do any
           | of this, don't have a sales team, don't have a marketing
           | team...and they do fine. But that isn't universal (for
           | example, sales clearly has an important implementation role
           | in some industries, in some industries sales has an
           | organizational role, etc.).
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | I think sales is essential if you have a B2B product and
             | want to sell to larger enterprises. Most of them will not
             | seek you out, and you need someone who can do a deal
             | tailored to each enterprise's needs and wants, and maintain
             | the relationship going forward.
             | 
             | But otherwise I agree.
        
           | spaetzleesser wrote:
           | On the other hand a good marketing person is worth gold. In
           | one company I contracted at they had a marketing person who
           | was super proactive and really worked social media , the
           | press and other channels. She pretty much singlehandedly made
           | the company into a known player in their field. Same probably
           | goes for good salespeople. But there aren't too many people
           | of that caliber. Most just go through the motions.
        
           | galaxyLogic wrote:
           | In my experience marketing people are very good at marketing
           | themselves. :-)
        
           | grawprog wrote:
           | At my old shop we had a 'marketing' person for a bit. She was
           | supposed to run the social media profiles, keep the website
           | updated, post ads and stuff.
           | 
           | Pretty sure she did literally actually nothing the entire
           | time she was there until they started having her double up on
           | reception duties on Saturdays.
           | 
           | She ended up leaving because she moved away somewhere.
           | Needless to say, they did not hire another marketing person.
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | _I know half of my advertisement budget is wasted, I just don
         | 't know which half_.
         | 
         | Plus your source is about TV ads only.
        
       | elsewhen wrote:
       | https://archive.is/YxrEB
        
       | anonfornoreason wrote:
       | I'd be interested in seeing a regional breakdown of media
       | consumption trends. Echoing several other comments, my media
       | consumption habits were broken during 2020. People in the Pacific
       | Northwest flooded outdoors and started camping and doing other
       | outdoor activities at a record pace. That alone had to have
       | shifted demand for passive media consumption. Obviously tv shows
       | and movies are different from checking online news nonstop
       | (something that was driven higher during pandemic) so any
       | insights would have to be broken out by medium and type.
        
       | 4e530344963049 wrote:
       | https://trimread.org/articles/44
        
       | jacob2484 wrote:
       | How much woke virtue signaling can one take? Even Bill Maher
       | agrees.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > Even Bill Maher agrees.
         | 
         | Bill Maher is a shallow elite contrarian, not a progressive
         | that it would make sense to say "Even" about when he agrees
         | with criticism of something perceived to be on the left.
        
           | spiderice wrote:
           | I love how now that he disagrees he's suddenly "not a
           | progressive".
        
             | faeriechangling wrote:
             | Bill Maher back around 9/11 had a slide deck act where he
             | justified racial profiling in airports with a picture of a
             | fundamentalist Muslim in traditional garb going through
             | airport security. He once literally hosted a talk show
             | called "Politically Incorrect"
             | 
             | He has always been "I'm leftist, but I have a politically
             | incorrect anti-establishment edge.". He has been saying
             | things like this for decades.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | I love that now that you encounter a position that I've
             | held and expressed consistently for long enough that it
             | could legally vote if it was a person, and which has been
             | quite common on the Left for at least as long, you act like
             | its a sudden change.
             | 
             | I get that he opposes some things sacred to the Right, and
             | that to people on the Right that makes him Left, but...
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | I mean, he's long been primarily a conspiracy theorist,
             | surely?
        
       | daemonhunter wrote:
       | Looks like it's all just in time for delta
        
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