[HN Gopher] Mapbox Employees Have Unionized
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       Mapbox Employees Have Unionized
        
       Author : potench
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2021-07-30 18:07 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.protocol.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.protocol.com)
        
       | mkw2000 wrote:
       | Love to see it
        
         | deltree7 wrote:
         | Great! Now I have an open database of people of"Never hire"
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | More of this! Onward to the next companies.
        
           | mkw2000 wrote:
           | Hopefully..
        
       | vangelis wrote:
       | That's right.
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | Please sell me on the value of unionizing.
       | 
       | At the moment, I don't support engineers unionizing in tech. But
       | my mind is open, and I'm ready to change my view on this.
       | 
       | Here's why this is where I stand:
       | 
       | System/software/hardware engineering is one of the most highly-
       | compensated and least-regulated careers out there. It's the only
       | career where an individual can make over $100,000/year without
       | having to complete years of additional training or
       | apprenticeship. Unlike consulting (also non-unionized), you don't
       | even need to graduate from target schools to get paid in this
       | industry! I'm not talking about pure cash comp, either. Tech and
       | tech-adjacent companies typically offer very good insurance
       | policies with low/no-cost, great long-term disability benefits,
       | great vacation and time-off policies, and more.
       | 
       | Engineers have also been in a seller's market for a long time.
       | "Recruiters fill my inbox so much, I have to ignore them" is a
       | common trope in this industry. Engineers very much have the
       | option of leaving a company if they disagree with work
       | conditions.
       | 
       | All I see are companies spending more money on bolstering their
       | legal and HR departments to implement union relations. Which
       | means less money and benefits for us.
        
         | babelfish wrote:
         | If you want to preserve the benefits you describe, unionize. If
         | you want to rely on the goodwill of executives keeping things
         | how they've been, don't. But remember - executives are working
         | as hard as possible to drive developer costs down.
        
         | andrewmcwatters wrote:
         | Not sure why the need for unionizing at Mapbox in particular,
         | but generally not all engineering departments in different
         | industries are treated the same.
         | 
         | You'd think that because earning potential is so much higher in
         | other adjacent fields where you're doing the same exact job,
         | people would just leave, but that seems to be a lot more
         | personal than economic.
        
         | closeparen wrote:
         | Despite tech workers' financial power, management gets away
         | with many widely unpopular working conditions. Think of the
         | ubiquity of open offices, or of offices in general. Or sprints,
         | or story points, or JIRA. Or the prioritization of new feature
         | work over reliability and refactoring. Or the infamous crunch
         | time near a deadline. Or the unfairness and perverse incentives
         | in a promotion process. Coworkers making more than you because
         | they joined at a lower stock price or had better counteroffers.
         | Theoretically, workers could get more control over these
         | conditions.
         | 
         | There are also many things programmers are asked to build,
         | which at least the loudest among us find reprehensible. This
         | includes anything to do with advertising, personal data,
         | aggressive sales practices, dark patterns, etc. Programmers
         | could reduce the prevalence of these things by collectively
         | refusing to work on them. Even informal rumblings made some
         | headway on this kind of thing at Google.
         | 
         | Finally there is a more general leftist solidarity angle where
         | programmers could "make the world a better place" by using
         | their own indispensability to leverage their employers into
         | better pay and conditions for others. Kitchen staff, cleaning
         | crew, even gig workers contracted through the platforms they
         | work on. Tech workers have a better chance of getting this sort
         | of thing done by contract than by legislation.
        
       | mrbadideas wrote:
       | If unionization takes hold for tech / software engineering type
       | jobs, I'm curious what this will do to the ability of companies
       | to effectively compete and attract talent. The best people I know
       | are aware of their value and typically want to work with like
       | minded motivated people. How many pro-union people here have
       | actually put in time at union shops in more traditional
       | industries to understand the perverse incentive structure unions
       | can have on individual productivity.
        
       | babelfish wrote:
       | Amazing news. Love to see the push for workers rights in tech.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-30 23:02 UTC)