[HN Gopher] Multics MR12.7 released
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Multics MR12.7 released
Author : nix23
Score : 70 points
Date : 2021-07-30 09:15 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (multics-wiki.swenson.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (multics-wiki.swenson.org)
| jonathrg wrote:
| That's surprising. I understand the desire to keep Multics alive
| for the sake of preserving history, but why would you want to
| release new features for it?
| ianbicking wrote:
| If you read the feature list it's stuff around tape management
| and annotation. Not fun or playful features, so I assume it's
| the result of someone actually using it and wanting those
| features.
|
| (Though the previous release looks like it had more quality-of-
| life features, like command history search)
| nix23 wrote:
| >but why would you want to release new features for it?
|
| Why not?
|
| FreeDOS got even a package manager ;)
|
| And TK4- gets new features too....like tcp/ip
| hnlmorg wrote:
| I think it's great that old systems like Multics are still
| being developed for but I don't really agree with your
| comparisons:
|
| There are still a lot of DOS applications in production
| (particularly in industry) as well as a massive retro gaming
| community. So DOS is still used a lot. Multics is a lot older
| than DOS though. Is there anyone still using it outside of
| hobby communities?
|
| I've seen TCP/IP added to a lot of older systems like the
| Amstrad CPC 464 because it makes work with the systems a lot
| easier as their older physical media degrades and comes in
| shorter supply. But the release notes for MR12.7 reads more
| like that of FreeBSD or similar.
|
| But as I said, I do think it's great that people are still
| developing Multics; even if I do share the same surprise as
| the OP did.
|
| As an aside, what language would they be coding in? B? BCL?
| Or would it be pure assembly? IIRC Multics predates C.
| nix23 wrote:
| >There are still a lot of DOS applications in production
| (particularly in industry) as well as a massive retro
| gaming community.
|
| True but for that your don't need a pkg-manager, and for
| retro gaming..i would argue that 99.99% use DosBox, and the
| 0.01% with real hardware use probably MS-Dos 6.22.
|
| >anyone still using it outside of hobby communities?
|
| I don't think, but we never know ;) The last real hardware
| was shutdown in 2000 in Canada:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics#Project_history
|
| >But the release notes for MR12.7 reads more like that of
| FreeBSD or similar.
|
| What do you mean with that?
|
| >what language would they be coding in? B? BCL?
|
| First it was PLE then PL/1 well and some assembly, in
| Mutltics tradition the language the OS had to be
| implemented was written in stone before the langspec. or a
| working compiler existed (PLE E stands for early PL)
|
| BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible Timesharing
| System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too:
|
| https://github.com/PDP-10/its
| hnlmorg wrote:
| > _True but for that your don 't need a pkg-manager,_
|
| Why not?
|
| > _and for retro gaming..i would argue that 99.99% use
| DosBox, and the 0.01% with real hardware use probably MS-
| Dos 6.22._
|
| Most do use DOSBox or physical hardware. Some do use
| FreeDOS too but yes, it is a hell of a lot less common so
| I do take your point :)
|
| > _What do you mean with that?_
|
| Have a read of it yourself:
| https://s3.amazonaws.com/eswenson-
| multics/public/releases/MR...
|
| A lot of it is production features and bug fixes rather
| than toys for hobbyists. I will admit I'm talking about
| my subjective impression here though.
|
| > _First it was PLE then PL /1 well and some assembly, in
| Mutltics tradition the language the OS had to be
| implemented was written in stone before the langspec. or
| a working compiler existed (PLE E stands for early PL)_
|
| Interesting. Thank you :)
|
| > _BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible
| Timesharing System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too:_
|
| I've not heard of ITS before. Thanks for the link!
| nix23 wrote:
| The Dos applications in production are probably delivered
| by floppy or CD.
|
| But hey absolutely with you, i "updated" a warehouse
| management machine ~7 years ago with FreeDOS and new
| Industrial-grade Hardware and automated email backup
| (haha take that cloud!), we had just one little problem
| with the infrared reader, but we found one with USB and
| DOS drivers and and everything was fine, so there's
| definitely a use-case for FreeDOS.
| simtel20 wrote:
| > BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible
| Timesharing System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too
|
| The lore I heard was that ITS was the reaction to CTS but
| now that you mentioned this, I did some research and it
| looks like the you're right and the project MAC folks
| were just making a pun on the name, but wrote ITS in
| response to multics, as you said. Thanks for mentioning
| that!
| unused0 wrote:
| Multics is written almost entirely in PL/I, plus some
| assembly for bootup, some messy low level stuff, and time
| critical bits like process switching.
|
| Many additional languages are available, such as COBOL,
| FOTRAN, APL, BASIC, Assembler, JOVIAL and others I can't
| recall off the top of my head.
| jhgb wrote:
| > And TK4- gets new features too....like tcp/ip
|
| Wow, really? Web interface to MVS when? :)
|
| I guess I'll have to check it out one of these days.
| nix23 wrote:
| >Web interface to MVS when?
|
| Already there with :)
|
| https://github.com/hercules-390/hyperion
|
| https://encrypted-
| tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMF1p-...
|
| Sorry for the bad screenshot.
| jhgb wrote:
| I meant OS-level software, something like ISPF-over-the-
| web. But I admit I've never tried Hercules' web UI before
| either.
| nix23 wrote:
| Hmm i just used x3270 and Vista tn3270, but there is
| Virtel Web Access, but i never try'd it (maybe other
| stuff exists too)
| sfgweilr4f wrote:
| What kind of things can I do with multics in 2021?
| MichaelMoser123 wrote:
| it is being run in ring0 on each intel CPU, and is doing the
| intel management engine. Most probably you have more running
| instances of multics than linux.
| jonathrg wrote:
| That's MINIX.
| MichaelMoser123 wrote:
| funny, misread multics as minix.
| [deleted]
| nix23 wrote:
| That's minix3, but it could be that Multics implements USB
| support even before minix3 does ;)
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