[HN Gopher] Multics MR12.7 released
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       Multics MR12.7 released
        
       Author : nix23
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2021-07-30 09:15 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (multics-wiki.swenson.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (multics-wiki.swenson.org)
        
       | jonathrg wrote:
       | That's surprising. I understand the desire to keep Multics alive
       | for the sake of preserving history, but why would you want to
       | release new features for it?
        
         | ianbicking wrote:
         | If you read the feature list it's stuff around tape management
         | and annotation. Not fun or playful features, so I assume it's
         | the result of someone actually using it and wanting those
         | features.
         | 
         | (Though the previous release looks like it had more quality-of-
         | life features, like command history search)
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | >but why would you want to release new features for it?
         | 
         | Why not?
         | 
         | FreeDOS got even a package manager ;)
         | 
         | And TK4- gets new features too....like tcp/ip
        
           | hnlmorg wrote:
           | I think it's great that old systems like Multics are still
           | being developed for but I don't really agree with your
           | comparisons:
           | 
           | There are still a lot of DOS applications in production
           | (particularly in industry) as well as a massive retro gaming
           | community. So DOS is still used a lot. Multics is a lot older
           | than DOS though. Is there anyone still using it outside of
           | hobby communities?
           | 
           | I've seen TCP/IP added to a lot of older systems like the
           | Amstrad CPC 464 because it makes work with the systems a lot
           | easier as their older physical media degrades and comes in
           | shorter supply. But the release notes for MR12.7 reads more
           | like that of FreeBSD or similar.
           | 
           | But as I said, I do think it's great that people are still
           | developing Multics; even if I do share the same surprise as
           | the OP did.
           | 
           | As an aside, what language would they be coding in? B? BCL?
           | Or would it be pure assembly? IIRC Multics predates C.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | >There are still a lot of DOS applications in production
             | (particularly in industry) as well as a massive retro
             | gaming community.
             | 
             | True but for that your don't need a pkg-manager, and for
             | retro gaming..i would argue that 99.99% use DosBox, and the
             | 0.01% with real hardware use probably MS-Dos 6.22.
             | 
             | >anyone still using it outside of hobby communities?
             | 
             | I don't think, but we never know ;) The last real hardware
             | was shutdown in 2000 in Canada:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics#Project_history
             | 
             | >But the release notes for MR12.7 reads more like that of
             | FreeBSD or similar.
             | 
             | What do you mean with that?
             | 
             | >what language would they be coding in? B? BCL?
             | 
             | First it was PLE then PL/1 well and some assembly, in
             | Mutltics tradition the language the OS had to be
             | implemented was written in stone before the langspec. or a
             | working compiler existed (PLE E stands for early PL)
             | 
             | BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible Timesharing
             | System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too:
             | 
             | https://github.com/PDP-10/its
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | > _True but for that your don 't need a pkg-manager,_
               | 
               | Why not?
               | 
               | > _and for retro gaming..i would argue that 99.99% use
               | DosBox, and the 0.01% with real hardware use probably MS-
               | Dos 6.22._
               | 
               | Most do use DOSBox or physical hardware. Some do use
               | FreeDOS too but yes, it is a hell of a lot less common so
               | I do take your point :)
               | 
               | > _What do you mean with that?_
               | 
               | Have a read of it yourself:
               | https://s3.amazonaws.com/eswenson-
               | multics/public/releases/MR...
               | 
               | A lot of it is production features and bug fixes rather
               | than toys for hobbyists. I will admit I'm talking about
               | my subjective impression here though.
               | 
               | > _First it was PLE then PL /1 well and some assembly, in
               | Mutltics tradition the language the OS had to be
               | implemented was written in stone before the langspec. or
               | a working compiler existed (PLE E stands for early PL)_
               | 
               | Interesting. Thank you :)
               | 
               | > _BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible
               | Timesharing System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too:_
               | 
               | I've not heard of ITS before. Thanks for the link!
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | The Dos applications in production are probably delivered
               | by floppy or CD.
               | 
               | But hey absolutely with you, i "updated" a warehouse
               | management machine ~7 years ago with FreeDOS and new
               | Industrial-grade Hardware and automated email backup
               | (haha take that cloud!), we had just one little problem
               | with the infrared reader, but we found one with USB and
               | DOS drivers and and everything was fine, so there's
               | definitely a use-case for FreeDOS.
        
               | simtel20 wrote:
               | > BTW: The opposite to Multics the "Incompatible
               | Timesharing System" gets some Maintenance-(love) too
               | 
               | The lore I heard was that ITS was the reaction to CTS but
               | now that you mentioned this, I did some research and it
               | looks like the you're right and the project MAC folks
               | were just making a pun on the name, but wrote ITS in
               | response to multics, as you said. Thanks for mentioning
               | that!
        
             | unused0 wrote:
             | Multics is written almost entirely in PL/I, plus some
             | assembly for bootup, some messy low level stuff, and time
             | critical bits like process switching.
             | 
             | Many additional languages are available, such as COBOL,
             | FOTRAN, APL, BASIC, Assembler, JOVIAL and others I can't
             | recall off the top of my head.
        
           | jhgb wrote:
           | > And TK4- gets new features too....like tcp/ip
           | 
           | Wow, really? Web interface to MVS when? :)
           | 
           | I guess I'll have to check it out one of these days.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | >Web interface to MVS when?
             | 
             | Already there with :)
             | 
             | https://github.com/hercules-390/hyperion
             | 
             | https://encrypted-
             | tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMF1p-...
             | 
             | Sorry for the bad screenshot.
        
               | jhgb wrote:
               | I meant OS-level software, something like ISPF-over-the-
               | web. But I admit I've never tried Hercules' web UI before
               | either.
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | Hmm i just used x3270 and Vista tn3270, but there is
               | Virtel Web Access, but i never try'd it (maybe other
               | stuff exists too)
        
       | sfgweilr4f wrote:
       | What kind of things can I do with multics in 2021?
        
         | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
         | it is being run in ring0 on each intel CPU, and is doing the
         | intel management engine. Most probably you have more running
         | instances of multics than linux.
        
           | jonathrg wrote:
           | That's MINIX.
        
             | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
             | funny, misread multics as minix.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | nix23 wrote:
           | That's minix3, but it could be that Multics implements USB
           | support even before minix3 does ;)
        
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