[HN Gopher] You can be shy and still be a CEO
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You can be shy and still be a CEO
Author : stonlyb
Score : 77 points
Date : 2021-07-29 17:56 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thecut.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thecut.com)
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| Depends on the culture. People like Musk or Jobs wouldn't last 5
| minutes as CEO in my country. Everyone will just move to a non
| toxic workplace.
| abz10 wrote:
| You mean Germany?
| Overton-Window wrote:
| I can imagine the state of your country if Musk and Jobs would
| be considered toxic there.
| [deleted]
| dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote:
| > Everyone will just move to a non toxic workplace.
|
| This is a silly notion that ignores the fact that there are
| plenty of people who are both capable and want to work for
| leaders like Jobs/Musk. Nobody forces anyone to work the hard
| hours at these companies, and the complainers who don't make it
| are usually all you hear about since the individuals driving
| toward the mission are busy doing just that.
|
| It's like Navy SEALS, you take any random selection of 1000
| people, ask them how much they believe in the mission, and then
| put them into the sieve and see which ones have the chops to
| make it. Drill instructors would be called "toxic" too, but
| that's the entire point of the filtering function.
| ajcp wrote:
| I remember when the WashPo was publishing all the articles
| about Amazon workers pulling 12 hour days and crying at their
| desks.
|
| All I could think of at the time was "wow, sounds like a
| mission oriented place, I would love to work there."
|
| Of course Amazon has made it their mission to not hire me,
| but still.
| duxup wrote:
| My attitude towards really outspoken and / or in your face-ish
| CEOs has changed over the years. With the obvious caveat that I
| never worked with anyone like Musk or Jobs, nor do I know what
| they were really like / thinking.
|
| I worked with some folks who were notorious at companies for
| challenging people, speaking forcefully and so on. More subdued
| folks like myself and others really hated them.
|
| But most if I got to know weren't jerks, they weren't
| challenging you personally as a person. They were trying to
| push you, see if you'd push back, professionally. The folks I
| worked with would take it very personally, and understandably a
| lot of people do. Yet the other folks who excelled under those
| leaders, they let it roll off their back and just got back to
| it.
|
| I've had more than one conversation of "He didn't say you
| suck... he didn't like where you put a button."
|
| Some of those guys who challenged people WANTED push back, they
| wanted to see the other person really disagreed and had their
| own vision. When that would happen, often they would get the go
| ahead to do that thing...
|
| One day I was honestly just tired and said something that
| sounded like I was pushing back pretty hard and the response
| "Ok then we'll go that route.". That was it, conversation over
| . To that individual willingness to push back in the face of
| opposition up the food chain meant you really believed / knew
| what you were doing.
|
| Musk or Jobs, I've no idea, but in a world where I agree
| there's way too much toxicity, sometimes I see folks label any
| challenge as toxic and they don't realize that it's ok to
| disagree, and sometimes those folks want that.
| danielmarkbruce wrote:
| I'm pushy (not deliberately) and seem like a jerk to some
| people. I've spoken to a few folks like myself and the
| consensus seems to be we all wanted pushback but it really
| wasn't for any other reason than we wanted to hear good
| ideas/thoughts.
|
| Pushy people probably all lack a little empathy because we
| only care about the topic at hand. In your example - it
| doesn't occur to many people (me..) that saying "i don't like
| where that button is" suggests anything more than that
| specific thing.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| I'm in the process of leaving a manager. I'll happily
| disagree with a decision and present my alternative, but only
| once, unless they specifically ask me to explain it again. If
| I have to repeat it, it means they didn't listen properly the
| first time, which is disrespectful.
|
| One incident in isolation is forgivable, but once it becomes
| a pattern, it's time to go.
| theyarejust wrote:
| As a passive person it took me several years to learn how to
| push back and I deal with people who regularly challenge me
| and I push back and challenge them. PM says deadline is not
| movable, I say I think you can make it happen. And we have a
| balance in power.
|
| I never worked with Jobs or Musk, but from stories I read
| about them, they are straight up bullies and sociopaths. Musk
| told a guy who took one day off to attend birth of his first
| born to get his priorities straight. That is not normal.
| [deleted]
| minikites wrote:
| It's technically possible for most people to "be" anything, i.e.
| to succeed in an unusual way, but I don't think that's the right
| way to look at it. Why is our current economic environment not
| optimized for this behavior? Why is our economy set up to
| disproportionately reward ruthless behaviors and predatory
| personalities?
| open-source-ux wrote:
| Being shy and being introverted are not always the same thing.
| For some people, being introverted and being shy are closely
| entwined. For others, being an introvert does not always mean
| being shy or anxious in social situations. For example, an
| introvert may find giving talks or presentations a stimulating
| activity. These activities are typically seen as extrovert
| activities.
|
| On a somehwat related note, you can find introverted people in
| many professions, in roles which might be associated with being
| extroverted e.g. acting or a movie director.
|
| An example: here's an informative video from introvert movie
| director David Sandberg (director of Shazam!, Lights Out and
| Annabelle Creation).
|
| _Can You Be An Introvert Director?_ Note: there 's a very brief
| horror clip featuring a bit of gore in the following video:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEyFH-uzlGg
| superfrank wrote:
| > Being shy and being introverted are not always the same
| thing.
|
| Add social anxiety into that mix as well. People tend to use
| all three interchangeably, and while there is overlap, they are
| all different things
|
| https://verilymag.com/2018/12/signs-of-social-anxiety-social...
| wenc wrote:
| I can relate. I'm very introverted in that I need a lot of time
| alone to be in my head (the lockdowns this past year were a
| cakewalk). But I'm not shy at all. I love talking to strangers
| and have very low anxiety when it comes to public speaking.
| cj wrote:
| I consider myself an introverted CEO and I agree - being shy is
| not an immutable personality trait.
|
| Or maybe a better way to put it is "seeming shy" or "coming
| across as reserved" is something you can absolutely change with
| practice.
| slap_shot wrote:
| puff piece.
|
| unrelated to the article, but im curious if this business can
| sustain itself to another round of funding. it has been tried
| before and does not work.
|
| ecommerce stores do well when they run an ad or email promoting a
| product that they can sell 1k/10k/100k times over.
|
| a market place like this has no such inventory.
| zapstar wrote:
| I think the return of introvert CEOs and other executives and
| leaders is coming. Remote work has turned down the "impact" (or
| presence) of the extroverted leader. The thoughtful and
| reflective qualities of introverts are well suited for leading
| others and making the big decisions.
| duxup wrote:
| As an employee. I really don't care if the CEO is outgoing.
|
| Honestly it is a relief when the CEO isn't trying to sell me on
| some vision (with the exception of one CEO who was a legit
| magical salesman) or whatever it is. Just give me my orders so I
| can get on with it, I don't need a show / extrovert at the helm.
|
| Maybe other people do and maybe the article is wrong, but at
| least for leadership, I don't need a super outgoing guy. I just
| want to know what he needs done / and let's go make the thing.
|
| Now if the CEO is a guy who is gonna come running out onto a
| stage screamming at a presentation, like that is who he is ...
| that's cool too.
| chadanon wrote:
| "A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his
| work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it
| ourselves." -Lao Tzu
| bps4484 wrote:
| "I just want to know what he needs done / and let's go make the
| thing."
|
| I think this is the problem. It's really really hard to do that
| at scale. Different people require different types of messages
| in order to get it. You need to repeat your vision of what
| needs to get done again and again and again. That can be hard
| for an introvert. It doesn't mean you _can 't_ be shy, but I
| think that's why it can be a challenge.
| api wrote:
| > I just want to know what he needs done / and let's go make
| the thing.
|
| "You tell grunts what to do. You tell special forces the
| objective."
| Leparamour wrote:
| Just out of curiousity, who was this "magical salesman" CEO?
| Some well-known face?
| cryptica wrote:
| In school, I was so shy, I constantly struggled to initiate
| conversations and I was always playing back what I said in my
| mind and feeling bad about how dumb it sounded. I held others to
| a higher esteem than myself.
|
| But as I grew older, the system beat shyness out of me by
| revealing the ugliness in people. Now I don't care about what
| people think. I even swore and shouted at my boss when quitting
| my last job.
|
| Eventually, I realized that most people are selfish idiots so it
| doesn't matter what they think.
| ALotOfBees wrote:
| I am a shy CEO and can confirm. It can be difficult but
| definitely doable. We currently have one employee, myself, and
| although I sometimes have difficulty confronting him we mostly
| get our work done.
| haram_masala wrote:
| You should probably offer him sexual favors in exchange for
| excellent performance. I'm sure your HR department will be fine
| with it.
| shreyshnaccount wrote:
| your username seems like a reference I know but am missing....
| k__ wrote:
| Wicker Man?
| zepto wrote:
| A can of bees
| echelon wrote:
| Maybe they just like hymenoptera?
| bitwize wrote:
| Ilovebees?
| burnt_toast wrote:
| I run a one man business and love to blame things on someone
| else.
|
| Scheduled too many jobs this week? Friggen boss is overworking
| me again. New business cards have too small of a font? Ugh, I
| need to have a talk with my designer.
| justinzollars wrote:
| Yes. All you need is product market fit, and ability to execute
| on your vision.
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