[HN Gopher] Smart Phone, Dumb Terminal
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Smart Phone, Dumb Terminal
        
       Author : twillmas
       Score  : 121 points
       Date   : 2021-07-27 17:34 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.charlieharrington.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.charlieharrington.com)
        
       | leephillips wrote:
       | In 2013 Mark O'Connor wrote a series of articles about his
       | experiments with nomadic computing using ipads, Linodes, and
       | bluetooth keyboards. He was kind of a pioneer in this area:
       | 
       | https://yieldthought.com/post/31857050698/ipad-linode-1-year...
        
       | underscore_ku wrote:
       | get a PinePhone with Ubuntu Touch and throw the iphone to trash
        
       | adkadskhj wrote:
       | Man, a personal hosted VPN for all my junk is my dream. Can't
       | wait to get something selfhosted, tail-scail-like setup.
       | Something i can get into from anywhere and work from anything.
       | I'm tempted to order a bluetooth keyboard like this post just to
       | have it in the car and be able to work from my iPad/iPhone in a
       | pinch (assuming internet).
       | 
       | For someone wanting an easy, at home VPN for setups just like in
       | the blog - is anything on the market competitive with Tailscale's
       | UX? Ideally there would be no proxy, no VPN hosted on
       | DigitalOcean that i fear being a weak point.. Instead, i'd like:
       | 
       | 1. A redirect hosted on DigitalOcean, acting as a self hosted
       | DynIP. No security issue here i'd think?
       | 
       | 2. After hitting my real IP, connect to a VPN on a predetermined
       | port.
       | 
       | 3. Get access to bells and whistles now on the priveledged
       | network. Bonus points if i could assign DNS entries like `ssh
       | me@workmachine.fake` or `http(s?)://videostreaming.fake`
       | 
       | Tailscale makes me a bit nervous, as cool as they are i'd prefer
       | entirely self hosted. Though i may give them a try just to
       | experience this UX.
       | 
       |  _edit_ : https://blog.tonari.no/introducing-innernet innernet
       | might be what i'm looking for
        
         | maccolgan wrote:
         | Zerotier?
        
         | c0nfused wrote:
         | For the last decade or so I have been running cheap Asus
         | routers on my home network. They support dyndns and OpenVPN out
         | of the box. I assume that other manufacturers offer the same
         | thing.
         | 
         | I haven't poked around in the guts of their vpn setup. But it's
         | generally password protected and I would assume in the clear.
         | So I replace accounts frequently and only leave it running if I
         | am out of town and have some project I may need access to.
         | 
         | Basically you vpn to yourname.dyndnsprovider.com and you are
         | done.
         | 
         | The rest is DNS Setup which.is sort of up to you but you can
         | easily configure to something like
         | machinename.home.mydomain.net
        
           | m4rtink wrote:
           | Microtik routers can also run a VPN just fine. :)
        
       | dTal wrote:
       | I got a GPD Micro PC a couple months ago and I'm in love.
       | 
       | It's a magical size - exactly small enough to slip into a back
       | pocket like a chunky phone, and exactly large enough that it's
       | actually practical to use desktop software on it. It's
       | ergonomically first-rate - I've done CAD work on it. And it's
       | durable too - I've dropped it several times already and it's
       | barely even scratched.
       | 
       | It's also unlocked a class of activity I didn't know was possible
       | - long-form writing while out walking. I can get 50wpm with great
       | tactile feedback on the tiny keyboard. It's all in on thumb
       | typing, and having struggled with a Cosmo Communicator for a year
       | I can absolutely say that that is the correct decision for a
       | mobile device. The vast majority of the time there's no handy
       | surface nearby.
       | 
       | Now that I essentially have a laptop on me at all times, phones
       | hold no appeal for me anymore. None. This is the class of device
       | I've always wanted. All it really needs in order to replace a
       | phone completely is a cell modem which can wake it from suspend,
       | and ideally the standard "mobile" sensors such as GPS, cameras,
       | and gyros. And waterproofing, I guess.
        
         | aftergibson wrote:
         | Quick question, what about the Cosmo didn't work that worked on
         | the GPD Micro? Was the keyboard problematic on the Cosmo?
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | There were lots and lots of problems with the Cosmo as a
           | phone, build quality first and foremost, but I'll focus on
           | the screen/keyboard combo since that's the point of
           | comparison with the GPD.
           | 
           | First, the keyboard: The Cosmo keyboard is not designed for
           | thumb typing. You can do it, but it's a bit awkward. The
           | phone is not comfortable to hold in this configuration - it's
           | thin, wide, top heavy, and the hinge has sharp edges. The
           | generous key travel also works against you when thumb typing.
           | It seems that you are basically always meant to put the phone
           | on a flat surface and touch-type - but it's not very good at
           | that either. It has no feet on the (slightly curved!) bottom
           | surface, and while the rear hinge is meant to act as a kind
           | of kickstand, the design means that force of typing transfers
           | to the screen, causing it to wobble with every keystroke. The
           | keys themselves are as nice as is possible in that size, but
           | touch-typing at a table while on the go is a very narrow use
           | case. The device feels delicate and fragile. Also - while
           | this isn't a completely fair comparison as I've only had the
           | GPD for two months - after a year the keyboard began missing
           | keystrokes (and this was a replacement keyboard, since the
           | one it came with did that from day 1).
           | 
           | Next the screen - a super-high aspect ratio smartphone screen
           | turned landscape is actually really annoying. You have almost
           | no vertical real estate, whereas most phone apps assume that
           | the vertical axis is where _all_ the real estate is and
           | consequently put menu bars at the top and the bottom, eroding
           | it further. There 's very little gap between the touchscreen
           | and the keyboard, so accidental touches are common. Switching
           | between touchscreen and keyboard interaction is even more
           | annoying that switching between mouse and keyboard on a
           | desktop, either because you have to transfer the weight of
           | the device to one hand if you're holding it, or if it's on a
           | table because you must gently prod at the screen without
           | tipping the thing over, or brace the screen from behind. Also
           | the screen only opens to one very wide angle (cheerfully
           | described by Planet as "the optimum angle"). There's volume
           | buttons, but they're awkwardly on the back of the screen,
           | which would make sense if they worked when the device is
           | closed, which they DON'T.
           | 
           | Now, the GPD Micro PC: _no_ touchscreen, which is actually
           | great because all interactions that change the state of the
           | device require definite action and make a physical  "click" -
           | you don't have to worry about accidentally brushing it the
           | wrong way. This actually takes a lot of cognitive load off.
           | It's comfortable to hold in two hands for thumb typing (but
           | also has rubber feet so you can set it down). The touchpad is
           | accessible with a fractional movement of the thumb, so
           | switching time is minimized. There's dedicated and easily
           | accessible volume buttons. The screen has a comfortable
           | aspect ratio and can be set to any angle, where it remains
           | stiffly. And most importantly, it runs _desktop_ software.
           | With these controls, it 's more ergonomic to use desktop
           | software in miniature than it is to poke about at a
           | touchscreen.
        
             | aftergibson wrote:
             | Amazing! Thanks for the detailed reply. That echoes a lot
             | of my concerns looking at the product.
             | 
             | I struggled to find honest reviews of the device so much
             | appreciated.
        
             | rambambram wrote:
             | Thanks indeed for the review! I came across these devices
             | once, and I always wondered if it was more gadget-like, or
             | really useful. Have you tried running Ubuntu MATE on it?
        
               | dTal wrote:
               | On which, the Cosmo or the MicroPC?
               | 
               | I was never brave enough to tinker with GNU/Linux on the
               | Cosmo while it was my daily driver. I'm pretty sure that
               | using the device that way comes with some pretty sever
               | compromises.
               | 
               | On the Micro PC, I run Void Linux with KDE Plasma. I
               | didn't do anything special, everything's mainline, so I'm
               | sure at a technical level Ubuntu MATE would work
               | perfectly well. The only interface tweaks I've made are
               | to set the task manager to "icons only" to save space and
               | added thermal/RAM/CPU monitors in the taskbar.
               | 
               | As for "toy gadget" vs "useful tool", I'd say that if
               | you're the kind of person who likes to take your laptop
               | _everywhere_ , it's definitely for you.
        
               | tluyben2 wrote:
               | Did you try other configurations? Like i3wm? I get over
               | 15 hours with some tweaking with a modern Ubuntu and i3wm
               | + optimizations.
        
         | thrwaeasddsaf wrote:
         | How's the battery life? Can you replace the battery if/when it
         | gets old?
         | 
         | That looks like something I could buy. I've really wanted a
         | tiny console PC with RS232 and ethernet for a long time now. I
         | thought about building one into a custom keyboard using
         | something like a raspberry pi but I haven't had the time to
         | follow through. This thing looks like it could make my diy
         | project unnecessary.
         | 
         | I also haven't found phones particularly appealing.. mine gets
         | 5-6 days on a charge because it's mostly just an alarm clock.
         | Any time I try to do anything with it, I get frustrated by how
         | clumsy it is compared to an actual computer. I do like being
         | able to look at maps or make a call in an emergency, and it's
         | handy having a camera always in the pocket, but that's pretty
         | much where the appeal ends.
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | Battery life is a solid 7 to 8 hours with real-world, screen-
           | on usage, provided you're not compiling software or pushing
           | the thing really hard. I've turned the TDP down on mine
           | because I almost always prefer it to be cool rather than
           | fast. You could probably drain the battery in a 2 or 3 hours
           | if you really went for it.
           | 
           | Battery replacement is a matter of unscrewing the case. It's
           | glued to the interior, but I've seen teardown videos of
           | people just peeling it off so it's not a big deal. In lieu of
           | hot-swapping batteries, I sometimes carry a USB-C PD power
           | bank - although the Micro PC is low power enough that it will
           | actually charge off a regular phone charger.
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | What model do you have?
         | 
         | It seems pretty under powered to me. What exactly do you do on
         | it?
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | N4120 model.
           | 
           | Quad core and 8gb of RAM is underpowered? It's not the best
           | gaming machine to be sure, and I have to be a little more
           | careful with my browser tabs than on my 64GB workstation...
           | but there's not really anything glaring it outright _can 't_
           | do.
           | 
           | Hard to answer what I do on it, since the answer is
           | "everything". I run Plasma 5 on mine. Right now I have a lot
           | of firefox windows open, Quassel (IRC), Qalculate, some file
           | managers, some terminals, and some text editors. For heavy
           | duty I sometimes remote into my workstation (graphically)
           | which is fast enough on a LAN to use CAD and all the rest of
           | it. I've even done ANSYS simulations this way.
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | This is neat, but both Android and iPhone are really poor choices
       | if you're looking to travel with a computer. Particularly on the
       | iPhone side of things, you're basically screwed if you lose your
       | network connection, since you aren't going to be doing many
       | interesting things with the local shell. Android is a _little_
       | better, but you 'll still end up SSHing into another machine to
       | get any valuable work done.
       | 
       | Good, cheap x86 laptops are like $80 right now. That's about how
       | much you'd pay for one of those fancy Logitech keyboards, but it
       | comes with an entire computer, too.
        
       | sixty4bit wrote:
       | This is nice and all, but what I am waiting for is the phone to
       | power my desktop setup. I walk up, drop the phone into a dock,
       | and my three 27" monitors all wake up with the desktop exactly as
       | I left it.
       | 
       | To get there I think the GPU will have to be embedded in the
       | monitors, and some interesting operating system hoops will have
       | to be jumped through. Do cords have enough bandwidth now to
       | support this? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.
       | I feel like the answer is yes.
       | 
       | The other idea is just to mount the phone to a head mount display
       | and go VR or AR. But I feel like that is going to require way
       | more advancement in resolution on the phone screens to get right.
       | 
       | We can get there. We are super close. The iPad with an M1 chip
       | probably already has the power to do it. Maybe one or two more
       | years and this is not only feasible but purchasable. I'm a buyer.
        
         | reportgunner wrote:
         | Why even plug a phone at all ?
         | 
         | Scan your retina and have the screens broadcast your zero
         | latency always on desktop running in the cloud that seamlessly
         | updates, never has to stop or reboot and backs up every single
         | interaction you have done in the past decade.
         | 
         | The screens turn off and disconnect as you walk away and
         | reconnect to your phone (now merely a pocket-screen) with all
         | applications adapting to whatever size of the screen.
         | 
         | Oh and of course your earbuds have been connected the whole
         | time broadcasting any audio that might be playing in the
         | desktop without interruption.
        
           | shrimp_emoji wrote:
           | >phone desktop
           | 
           | >cloud desktop
           | 
           | Please kill me. :)
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | Cloud desktops are going to be mainstream long before phone
             | desktops will be a thing, at least at the rate Apple is
             | moving.
        
           | delusional wrote:
           | Finally, I will be able to watch all these ads from anywhere.
        
         | emilecantin wrote:
         | Funnily enough, you can kinda already do this with a USB-C
         | dock. I have one for my MacBook Pro, and when I plugged my
         | phone in it launched a desktop interface that ran on my phone.
         | It could only use one screen, though.
        
         | tristor wrote:
         | The Steam Deck promises this, and it's a big reason why I
         | reserved one. I think this could be integrated nicely into my
         | daily web-centric workflow.
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | Steam Deck is nice and I want one even though I have no need
           | for one, but it's not exactly a phone. It's got fans I think.
           | Give it another 10 years
        
         | stonemetal12 wrote:
         | I am really hoping the steam deck gets close to that.
        
         | beauzero wrote:
         | I was hoping this would be the general direction of Windows
         | Phone. I want my big monitors at home and at the office (split
         | time 3/5 and 2/5) and just want to carry my phone...without
         | having to login to Windows 365...or a VM in the cloud...to do
         | small to medium .NET development. Looks like Apple/VSC may get
         | me there quicker.
        
         | chronogram wrote:
         | I don't know why you'd want that. The place where I have my big
         | monitor is where I also have the space for a computer that has
         | enough room to be always fast and quiet for my tasks that I can
         | leave running things, while my phone is something that I need
         | for communication which can help with information/scheduling
         | and that I would like to have with me at all times. Having all
         | my work on my phone would make me leave that phone at home and
         | get an extra phone, I just wouldn't trust myself with all that
         | even if I have backups.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | > The place where I have my big monitor is where I also have
           | the space for a computer
           | 
           | If you have a single device for everything, you do not need
           | syncing and backups are needed only for one device.
        
             | zepto wrote:
             | A single device for everything is a single point of failure
             | _for everything_.
             | 
             | One of the great things about having various synced devices
             | is that if one fails or is misplaced, stolen etc., the
             | others are instantly available.
             | 
             | No single device solution can replicate this real world
             | benefit.
        
           | wjnc wrote:
           | It's a 400W+ machine blazing under my desk, with relatively
           | low performance per watt and per unit of cost and high
           | depreciation per hour of usage. With 6 ms latency to my major
           | IX and the stability and backup professionalism cloud
           | providers can offer I'd be all in for online desktop. Perhaps
           | I'd invest in a bit more beefy Synology as an internet-down
           | local machine, but my phone or iPad could offer that
           | functionality as well. Going from full machines to terminal-
           | screens would also save my household of 5 many kgs of
           | electronics. That times a few hundred million households sure
           | adds up.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | If we can send 4k over a cable it also has the bandwidth to
         | handle 3 screens at HD.
         | 
         | I am not sure that there is a phone that can do that though. I
         | can plug my Android into my USB-C dock and it can display a
         | copy of the screen on the screen, but that is about it. Doesn't
         | even seem to work with the USB keyboard I have plugged in.
        
           | emteycz wrote:
           | Your phone does not support USB 3.0 then (common with e.g.
           | Xiaomi - these ports are USB-C but USB 2.0). The USB-C on my
           | Samsung can do everything the USB-C on my PC does, including
           | a 4K screen in dual display mode.
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | > This is nice and all, but what I am waiting for is the phone
         | to power my desktop setup. I walk up, drop the phone into a
         | dock, and my three 27" monitors all wake up with the desktop
         | exactly as I left it.
         | 
         | This has been attempted multiple times. (Motorola's go at it
         | and Windows Phone are two recent attempts that come to mind)
         | Each time it has failed.
         | 
         | Reasons:
         | 
         | 1. The upgrade cycle on phones is much shorter than on
         | laptops/desktops.
         | 
         | 2. Phone manufacturers want you to use their own proprietary
         | docks, which means investing in their ecosystem, which is a
         | non-starter for most people, especially since history shows
         | such products will be discontinued after one, maybe two,
         | generations. The investment just isn't worth it. (chicken and
         | egg problem here).
         | 
         | 3. Corporations already have fine grained infrastructure in
         | place to manage Mac/PCs, and employees are pretty used to it.
         | Of course your work laptop has restrictions on what you can do,
         | and corporate VPN software, etc etc. People generally expect
         | their phones to belong to them, they tolerate PIN policies and
         | remote wiping, but that is about it. Newer android versions do
         | support a dual work/personal mode, but that still isn't on the
         | level of what exists in the Mac/PC management space.
         | 
         | 4. Thermal limits are a thing.
         | 
         | 5. Related to #4, pushing a phone at its limits all day long
         | will shorten its usable lifespan. LiON batteries don't enjoy
         | living next a hot CPU that's running at full load for hours on
         | end.
         | 
         | As for cords, thunderbolt will take care of your bandwidth
         | needs. Even USB 3.2 (I think that's the right version?) can
         | handle dual screens, USB 4 can certainly handle it.
         | 
         | Is it doable with todays tech? Of course. Is it even more
         | doable with some sort of cloud compute dumb terminal setup?
         | Naturally, could have done that a decade+ ago.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | > To get there I think the GPU will have to be embedded in the
         | monitors
         | 
         | Rumors say Apple is working on a monitor with an A13 chip
         | embedded in it for something like this kind of usage.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | I just wish they'd make a monitor that doesn't cost $5000.
           | It's basically impossible to find a 27"+ monitor that works
           | optimally with a Mac because they're all 4K, and the way
           | macOS handles scaling means you have to scale by a non-
           | integer factor.
           | 
           | Just give me the 5K iMac panel in a basic shell, that's all I
           | need.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | Didn't Ubuntu make a phone ten years ago that did that? But
         | they gave up on it. I also thought Samsung phones could do
         | that, too.
        
           | opan wrote:
           | The PinePhone and Librem 5 can both be docked and used like
           | computers.
        
           | delusional wrote:
           | Samsung phones can indeed do that. It's called DeX
           | (https://www.samsung.com/us/explore/dex/) and nobody cares.
        
             | m4rtink wrote:
             | I use DeX quite a bit - it's super handy for viewing
             | photos/videos captured on the device (Galaxy Note 9) on a
             | big screen with desktop like controls.
             | 
             | Also I have the Wacom One LCD drawing tablet that I often
             | connect to my Galaxy Tab S6 and draw on in in DeX mode with
             | ClipStudio. It effectively turns this setup to a nice
             | portable drawing studio, with the added flexibility of
             | being able to work on your projects also on the go with
             | just the Tab S6.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > I walk up, drop the phone into a dock, and my three 27"
         | monitors all wake up with the desktop exactly as I left it.
         | 
         | Not three monitors, but: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5
        
       | girvo wrote:
       | I'm a big believer in this idea; so much so that I have a
       | Bluetooth keyboard for my Boox Note 2 e-ink tablet. Very writing,
       | reading books and note taking via the stylus focused, though
       | e-ink refresh even on a device like this might be too slow for
       | some (depending on what refresh setting you choose), it's
       | entirely replaced the need for paper in my life -- and for
       | travelling at least around Queensland it's been brilliant.
        
       | blackoil wrote:
       | How feasible is to split/use compute power of multiple devices?
       | 
       | I would love to travel with a 15" ultraportble which is good for
       | mail/browsing but will crawls while trying to play Flight
       | Simulator. When I reach home, it seamlessly uses power of 599$
       | XBox compute centre to run it on 60FPS. When I reach office it
       | compiles millions line of code using power of a 500 core office
       | server.
       | 
       | Central server can be shared across devices so all devices of all
       | members of family run at same speed/capability.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | You can buy an e-GPU, if your device has thunderbolt and isn't
         | an M1. Compatibility isn't great and it is obviously more
         | expensive, but it is more or less what you suggest, with the
         | limit that you can only use it with one computer at a time.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | I do this too! I have a Logitech MX Keys, and while trying to
       | separate work and personal devices I put my phone on my laptop
       | stand and with 1 button I can switch the MX Keys to the iPhone
       | and Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp/Email/Termius away.
       | 
       | It works for more than I would have thought but I still really
       | miss things like alt-tab, or in general the ability to navigate
       | the UI with a keyboard. I mean why would the win/super key not
       | open the multitasking overview? Currently it does nothing...
       | Also, in Termius backspace works, but not delete, and page-
       | up/down produces a ~. Little annoyances like that are everywhere.
       | 
       | I also bought an MX Anywhere 3 to go with it, but it didn't
       | switch device with the MX Master switches, a missed opportunity
       | imho. Moreover, at the time I was still on Android and for
       | example in MineCraft the mouse pointer would still behave as a
       | finger that drags stuff. (I eventually returned it because I also
       | found it too flat for a mouse.)
       | 
       | So there is still much be made better but the basis is there. I
       | guess the demand is still very low. But I bet it is also a
       | chicken/egg story waiting to be resolved. I mean, iMovie on the
       | iPhone is super powerful but on this screen and with touch...
       | ugh.
       | 
       | Now just get me a monitor that also switches with my MX Master
       | Keys switch keys to a larger view of my Phone and we've got
       | ourselves a (partial because I love Linux, and yeah I was so
       | looking forward to that Ubuntu Phone Convergence thing) laptop
       | killer.
        
       | axiolite wrote:
       | It was around 2000, after buying a Cassiopeia E-100 that I
       | realized a keyboard makes any computer massively more usable.
       | With that I bought a Psion 5MX, used it great success, and never
       | considered a device without a physical keyboard again. Switched
       | off to Nokia Communicators, then several Android Sliders. All
       | worked great. I was always the guy in the conference room who
       | could login to servers and look-up info, despite everyone else
       | having phones, too.
       | 
       | A (pocket-sized) bluetooth keyboard sounds fine in theory, but
       | it's a hassle to keep it charged and to carry around a bulky
       | extra device you'll only use occasionally. So it'll get left at
       | home, not there when you need it, and nearly worthless.
       | 
       | It's only now, with every US carrier switching to VoLTE-only that
       | I'll soon have to retire the old Android sliders and find a new
       | option. Everything seems an unfortunate compromise. The keyboard
       | on the Blackberry Keyone/Key2 isn't great, missing critically
       | important keys like arrows and OK, and without being rootable,
       | you can't remap them to make it usable. The form factor is...
       | awkward as well.
       | 
       | The Gemini PDA is likely to be my next stop. Unfortunately the
       | form factor is kind of anti-phone, making it a poor choice to
       | quickly look at your screen to check some info, or make phone
       | calls, and only good when you really need to do a lot of typing.
        
         | Wildgoose wrote:
         | I have a Gemini PDA and also an AstroSlide on order which
         | should be shipping soon. I think it is exactly what you are
         | looking for: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-
         | slide-5g-transforme...
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | It's a shame and a contradiction how the smartphone market has
         | ballooned for the past few years yet choice is smaller and
         | smaller.
         | 
         | How can it be that there are 100s of smartphone models out
         | every year yet every single one has the same form factor? You
         | cannot even get a phone smaller than the phablets of 6 or 7
         | years ago, let alone a phone with physical keys...
        
           | swiley wrote:
           | NDAs, closed drivers, and other anti-competition tricks to
           | keep innovation out.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | The technology is so complicated that costs in
           | design/patents/royalties/manufacturing make it unfeasible to
           | produce anything without economies of scale. Coupled with
           | insufficient number of buyers willing to pay a lot, the
           | potential profit margins are so low it simply is not worth
           | the risk reward ratio.
        
         | IggleSniggle wrote:
         | I have an alternate solution to propose to you that I used for
         | a couple of years quite happily:
         | 
         | - Smart Watch for Voice/Text
         | 
         | - _small_ Tablet with keyboard cover and LTE in your pocket for
         | everything else
         | 
         | These days I have a different situation where I prefer not to
         | have anything if I'm away from computer and I just use the
         | Watch. I have the Apple Watch / AirPods which works quite well,
         | but I know not everybody wants to commit to the Apple
         | ecosystem. When I was doing the tablet-in-pocket thing, I was a
         | bit more cross platform and it still worked great with Google
         | Voice as the central hub for everything.
        
         | aftergibson wrote:
         | Have you seen the Astro Slide? Name aside it does look pretty
         | interesting. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-
         | slide-5g-transforme...
        
           | afandian wrote:
           | Before buying anything from Planet, see how well they have
           | done at maintaining older devices. Latest release for Gemini
           | PDA is Android 8.1, three years ago.
        
             | tluyben2 wrote:
             | Is it not possible to put a newer Android on it yourself?
             | Because you could run Linux on it as well?
        
               | afandian wrote:
               | I'm sure all things are possible. I just felt like it was
               | indicitive of a feeling like they abandoned the device
               | soon after launch to work on the next shiny thing.
        
               | tluyben2 wrote:
               | Yeah true, I had that with the gdp pocket which I used a
               | lot. I can replace and update the software (Linux in my
               | case), but hardware support was dropped very fast. Since
               | then I am a bit more careful. I like real open projects
               | like the Pandora or the Pyra as hardware support is there
               | for so long (more than a decade for the Pandora) that it
               | keeps going with small replacements. However, those
               | devices are just not as high spec or practical. Open
               | source hardware and software but with great specs and
               | formfactor are far away it seems.
        
           | tluyben2 wrote:
           | Ah my previous planet device was stolen a few weeks after I
           | received it. I hardly had a chance of using it.
           | 
           | The Slide looks more like a usable phone indeed. I never
           | tried Linux on the previous one (which was my plan); with
           | Linux I guess the 5g doesn't work? Anyone knows if wifi works
           | with Linux on the Gemini or what works and what doesn't? For
           | me to have a usable device, it would need to run Linux for
           | somme things; I'm fine with Android for all phone user, but
           | Linux with Wifi would be needed to do anything useful besides
           | that.
           | 
           | If there would are (closed source) drivers for the 5g chip
           | for Linux then this would be the 3rd new Linux phone on the
           | market?
        
         | phicoh wrote:
         | My experience with some early Android sliders (HTC Dream and
         | HTC Desire Z) is that the keyboards don't have all the keys I
         | need. So in the end, typing the usual array of Unix and C
         | graphics characters was a bit of a hassle.
         | 
         | For years now, I have used the Android "Hacker's Keyboard" on
         | lots of ssh sessions.
         | 
         | Though I guess I would take a slider if it had a full (5 row)
         | set of keys.
        
       | desktopninja wrote:
       | I tasted this with the Display Dock for Lumia phone. My initial
       | setup was USB/Wifi KB + miracast + android phone. And it worked
       | just as well. Overseas phones seem to have more capabilities than
       | what we get stateside.
        
       | Multicomp wrote:
       | I've been looking around at old sharp zaurus organizers and psion
       | mx5 devices for the use case of offline portable word processor
       | that can save text files to eventually go to PC via CF / SD card.
       | for this years nanowrimo.
       | 
       | Most psions are 300 bucks, i can't justify that though i love the
       | idea. And the 15 buck zaurus organizers either only have a 30
       | character 'memo' function or are so old they only run DOS and
       | have to sync via serial cable.
       | 
       | Anyone have any suggestions on a palmtopish machine with qwerty
       | keyboard that can write txt or rtf files to an sd card and can be
       | had for 100 or less on ebay?
       | 
       | I'm currently resisting trying to hack a Smart Response XE and
       | instead trying to put a pi zero w and a 1.3" inch screen and
       | battery into the front margin of a Unicomp Model M and just
       | viming my way to victory whilst syncthing makes the file
       | magically appear on my pc whenever the device is on home wifi,
       | but an integrated device would be more pocketable. the model m
       | word processor is more for taking over long writing sessions
       | where i currently lug an actual wheelwriter around. this small
       | device would be even more portable, sitting at the beach, in the
       | car etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | selfhoster11 wrote:
         | If a "wireless keyboard" form factor suits you, look into
         | Alphasmart devices.
        
       | drvdevd wrote:
       | The biggest problem with using your phone as a computer is not
       | the screen size, or app availability or anything else you might
       | commonly think of when considering arguing about this subject.
       | 
       | In my opinion, today it is one and only one thing - the battery.
       | I'm presently typing this comment on a desktop, because my phone
       | is on the charger.
        
         | diffeomorphism wrote:
         | I don't see why this is an issue. If you connect by usb-c that
         | also charges. If you want it wirelessly you can still lie it
         | down on an inductive charging pad, right? Or would that
         | interfere with the connection?
        
         | keyme wrote:
         | That's not consistent between phones. I have a low end Redmi 9T
         | with a 6AH battery. It lasts 2 days of relatively heavy phone
         | usage. I'm guessing it would last a whole day in a Termux
         | shell.
         | 
         | Edit: if anything the real issue is thermals. I also have a
         | high end phone with a Snapdragon 888. This thing has a faster
         | CPU & GPU than my Intel desktop. However, it's only fast for
         | seconds, until it gets thermally throttled.
        
           | TchoBeer wrote:
           | The thermal issue is also something a lot of laptops run
           | afoul of, to be fair
        
       | timonoko wrote:
       | There must be generation coming which has never used physical
       | keyboard and do not ever want to. Even now, when my home
       | automation needs some adjustment, it easier just to SSH to Emacs
       | than to wake up, put some clothes on and go sitting by the
       | screen. Especially with (global-set-key (kbd "a") 'hippie-expand)
       | .
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Wait until they pass 35 and find that getting up and moving
         | about is not just an annoyance but vital to keeping your body
         | away from a state of constant little nagging pains ;)
        
           | timonoko wrote:
           | Shutup son. I am 69. But I cannot type with my thumbs, like
           | people under 30. I need always two hands to use the phone.
        
             | tluyben2 wrote:
             | I can type with my thumbs but it's far slower than using my
             | left thumb and right index finger. I am almost 50.
             | 
             | However, what does that have to do with 2 handed use?
             | Thumbs typing is also 2 hands. Or you mean typing with 1
             | thumb? I see people, especially Chinese, writing on their
             | phones with 1 thumb and holding it with the same hand (so 1
             | hand use); you have that too with swipe keyboards though
             | for western languages. This us definitely not faster (or,
             | for me, nicer) than just typing with 1 thumb and 1 finger.
             | 
             | Curious what other people do... I am on a tetras on a busy
             | street now and wasting what (very) young people do: I see
             | them all typing with 2 hands, two thumbs.
        
             | teekert wrote:
             | I'm still wishing for T9 to come back... Every generation
             | has its thing. Maybe it's time to try dictation and get
             | past the feelings of silliness ;)
        
               | tluyben2 wrote:
               | Not sure how that works with a lot of noise and people
               | (subway, busy streets, airplanes etc); it seems to type
               | out complete crap random people around me are shouting.
               | So in reality touchtyping is faster.
        
               | canadianfella wrote:
               | https://www.geckoandfly.com/8529/smart-keyboard-
               | pro-t9-keybo...
        
       | cjlm wrote:
       | I picked up the delightful Jelly Comb [0] for exactly this
       | reason.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.jellycomb.com/products/b046-bluetooth-
       | keyboard?v...
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | That's the missing model from the Logitech lineup!
         | 
         | They have compact keyboards, keyboards with easy bluetooth
         | switching, and keyboards with a builtin stand, but no one
         | keyboard that has all three.
        
           | hexadec wrote:
           | Have you tired the Logitech K480? It met all my needs for
           | pairing to my phone and an Android tablet with a nifty rotary
           | switch for changing inputs easily. They keycap shape was
           | lackluster but overall it was a novel solution.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MUTWLW4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b.
           | ..
        
             | wffurr wrote:
             | Aha they do have it! Thanks!
             | 
             | Huh, they don't list that on the keyboard page! Here it is
             | filtered to models with a phone stand:
             | https://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards?filters=3964
             | 
             | That one is only listed in the "iPad Keyboards" section for
             | whatever mysterious reason.
        
       | vbsteven wrote:
       | The Remarkable 2 runs Android and has a USB-C port so it might
       | support a wired keyboard.
       | 
       | Although I'm not sure if the screen refresh and cpu are fast
       | enough for comfortable typing. I already get frustrated using the
       | onscreen keyboard for typing a 10 character notebook name.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | It is a custom Linux distribution, not Android.
        
         | salamandersauce wrote:
         | It doesn't run Android. It runs Linux. There is already similar
         | devices with front lit eInk screens and support keyboards out
         | of the box too with Bluetooth or USB C. The Boox Note Air is an
         | example. It's considerably more powerful than the Remarkable 2
         | and in the A2 refresh mode typing with a keyboard is not too
         | bad.
        
       | joeman1000 wrote:
       | Similar to what I've been doing lately. Bought an M1 iPad
       | (different story...) and have been using MOSH and Blink Shell to
       | access my computer at home running emacs. Has been a blast doing
       | journaling, logging my time in org-mode, writing notes in org-
       | roam for uni subjects. Has been a game-changer for me. I know
       | it's just a 'dumb terminal' but the experience is so seamless
       | it's incredible. MOSH makes sure the connection doesn't drop out
       | when I lock the device and come back half a day later. I can be
       | on the train home and fire up that buffer I had going this
       | morning writing a paper in LaTeX, with proper syntax
       | highlighting, completion, snippets... incredible.
        
         | aikinai wrote:
         | I also use Blink with Mosh, but what's your physical setup? You
         | mentioned using it on the train, so are you using an attachable
         | keyboard like the Magic Keyboard? At that point, isn't the iPad
         | just bigger and heavier than a laptop?
         | 
         | I don't ask to refute your experience; I'm honestly curious
         | since I like the idea of just using the iPad, but the
         | ergonomics just seem inherently inferior regardless of software
         | concerns.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | This is exactly my setup, and I love it. Seriously, gentle
         | readers: if you haven't checked out MOSH yet, do so. It's game
         | changing:
         | 
         | * It doesn't care if my IP changes. For example, I can start a
         | session at home connected to Wi-Fi, switch to tethering to my
         | phone as I take a bus, switch to office Wi-Fi when I get to
         | work, and the connection never drops.
         | 
         | * It stays connected forever. Switch to a Blink tab with a
         | connection I haven't used for a week, and I'm instantly looking
         | at a live shell prompt.
         | 
         | It's magical. I use MOSH everywhere I possibly can now.
        
         | mathewsanders wrote:
         | What is the UX for switching between apps or moving the screen
         | like?
         | 
         | Can you do this with keyboard shortcuts or do you find yourself
         | switching between keyboard and touch screen for some
         | interactions?
         | 
         | I find this idea of using a keyboard super appealing but don't
         | like the idea of switching between keyboard and screen all the
         | time. At least a virtual keyboard is on the screen!
        
           | throwaway413 wrote:
           | Alt+tab works fine on iOS, and I'm pretty sure you can
           | trigger the app switcher view with a shortcut, can't
           | remember.
        
           | aikinai wrote:
           | I often use an external keyboard with my iPad (but not really
           | on the go). Both multi-tasking and keyboard shortcut support
           | have gotten a lot better recently (with an especially big
           | push in iPadOS 15), but I find the biggest blocker that
           | iPadOS still hasn't been decided with a keyboard in mind.
           | 
           | For example, tons of apps--including Apple apps--don't
           | highlight text fields by default as they would on a computer,
           | so you have to tap (or click) the field before you can type.
           | You can very rarely tab to switch focus between different
           | buttons and menus. You can't type to jump to an item in a
           | list, etc.
           | 
           | MacOS has so many little productivity enhancers, especially
           | in regards to keyboard shortcuts and keyboard control, and
           | the people designing iOS/iPadOS have just never made it a
           | priority so even with an external keyboard, I find myself
           | having to use touch or the mouse so much more often.
        
           | joeman1000 wrote:
           | You can CMD-TAB to other apps as on macOS. There are many of
           | the same keyboard shortcuts translated to iPadOS, even some
           | emacs movement keys in all text boxes!
           | 
           | There isn't enough room to have more than one thing open
           | usually, so lots of CMD-TAB action.
           | 
           | Normally I'm doing one or the other - typing or
           | annotating/drawing with the pencil. If I need touch-
           | interaction when typing I can use the trackpad.
           | 
           | I can't say it's a perfect experience, or even a practical
           | one, but I still enjoy it. Maybe it's just the novelty of the
           | setup. It weighs more (with the keyboard-case) than my
           | MacBook Air, but it does have a nicer screen and it is
           | waterproof. It lends itself more to portability for sure. I
           | tend to just chuck it in my bag more often than I did with my
           | laptop.
        
       | afandian wrote:
       | I think a lot about PinePhone, PinePhone Keyboard, terminal and
       | emacs org-mode. As a journal, to-do list, notes etc. I'm very
       | tempted to buy them, when the keyboard is released.
       | 
       | But I have a Gemini PDA which is basically the same thing but
       | more integrated and I never use it.
        
         | 3np wrote:
         | What is it that makes your Gemini unused, you think?
        
           | afandian wrote:
           | I did write a blog post or two on it on the train using
           | termux and nano. That was cool. And the occasional SSH
           | session.
           | 
           | But as a phone running Android it's not quite there. Features
           | like the LED controller app are half-baked vanity apps, and
           | I'd rather they'd spent the time getting the lower level
           | stuff right. Low quality phone call audio, random glitches,
           | and software updates were mostly forgotten about. If I did
           | want it as my primary phone I would also want a camera. The
           | only camera was front-facing and low quality, which ruled it
           | out. So it became a novel supplementary device rather than a
           | daily driver.
           | 
           | To whit, the hinge mechanism isn't well designed. In theory
           | the spine rotates back to form a stand, but it's incredibly
           | wobbly. So it's not much use for typing on a table. And it
           | can't be held in the hand, as there's no stiffness.
           | 
           | Why do I think PinePhone will be any different? The
           | prototypes I've seen look like the hinge is stiffer. I'm not
           | a kernel-compiling Linux enthusiast, so I don't expect to use
           | a PinePhone as a real phone. But I do hope an SSH terminal to
           | be simple enough to just work. So that puts it into the realm
           | of mostly offline with sync. And org-mode is both simple and
           | exciting, in a weird kind of a way.
           | 
           | And that appeals to nostaliga for Psions, Palm PDAs and
           | Newtons.
        
             | 3np wrote:
             | Do you know how viable (if even possible) it is to run
             | Linux on it? There are some notes for Kali[0] and
             | Debian[[1]. I've come across comments that it's far from
             | ideal due to Halium but I'm yet to understand what that
             | means in practice.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.kali.org/blog/kali-linux-for-the-gemini-
             | pda/ [1] https://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php?title=De
             | bian_Notes
        
               | afandian wrote:
               | There are certainly options. At the time (due to other
               | factors like hardware) I wasn't inclined to try it
               | myself.
        
       | wffurr wrote:
       | Logitech has a few models with a builtin phone stand, too, so you
       | can prop up the phone or tablet as you type. They all have number
       | pads, though, instead of the compact layout.
       | 
       | Update: If you click to the "Tablet Keyboards" section instead of
       | the regular "Keyboards" section, there's the K480 which is a
       | compact model with phone stand: https://www.logitech.com/en-
       | us/mobile/keyboards Why that's not listed in the regular keyboard
       | section remains a mystery...
       | 
       | Do mouse cursors work on iPhones yet or just iPad OS? Because
       | there's other models that have a trackpad on the side, which
       | could be neat. Ah, there's an accessibility setting to enable it,
       | but it's not the same as the iPad OS mouse support.
        
       | a9h74j wrote:
       | Agree that the freewrite looks a little massive compared to the
       | OP's travel-oriented use-case here, and that getting a bluetooth
       | keyboard paired to something is a great use of available items.
       | 
       | There is alse a Logitech keyboard (Multidevice K380, under $50
       | apparently) with a built-in notch in which to place a phone or
       | tablet.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.logitech.com/en-
       | us/products/keyboards/k480-multi...
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | I didn't know about Obsidian - great tip. Installed it on macOS
       | now and put the vault on my iCloud drive.
        
       | yasenn wrote:
       | Android - Termux - git+vimwiki Logitech k480 as a keyboard
       | Logitech MX Ergo as a mice
        
         | avel wrote:
         | Unfortunately Logitech k480, as good a concept it might be, has
         | a very mediocre button feel and also feels very bulky . That
         | was probably on purpose, so that it can support the weight of a
         | tablet. On the bright side it can be found for pretty cheap
         | now.
        
       | ubermonkey wrote:
       | For a really long time, I never left town without my laptop, even
       | if it was a pleasure trip. I have lots of stuff there I might
       | want on a personal level, plus for the last 14 years I've been in
       | a broad role in a small software company that kind of requires
       | it. (I mean, it doesn't, and I'm not griping, but it's easier for
       | everyone else if I limit the amount of time I'm truly
       | unreachable, so I pick and choose.)
       | 
       | The incredible growth in on-device capabilities from my iPad + a
       | keyboard went a long way towards making that unnecessary; adding
       | a remote desktop client (for access to the back-end Windows
       | server things I might want) closes the loop.
       | 
       | Unless I'm dead sure I'll NEED a full computer on a trip, I don't
       | take one now. The default has become "nope." Even -- especially!
       | -- as a photo management platform, because my iPad has ample
       | storage and I'm a Creative Cloud user. I used to have to carry
       | the laptop to dump and process photos during the trip (to avoid
       | dealing with 2,000 all at once when we got home). Now I can go
       | day by day, sync to Adobe, cull and do some processing, and just
       | take the final pass once I'm home.
       | 
       | That's great.
       | 
       | (Ironically, this same era has seen me become increasingly deep
       | into Orgmode, which is annoying, because as great as it is on a
       | desktop there's still no truly great way to work with it from
       | mobile short of setting up sync to a Linux box and using
       | mosh/ssh.)
        
         | aikinai wrote:
         | I'm curious why you prefer the iPad and keyboard over a laptop
         | since adding the keyboard typically makes the iPad both bigger
         | and more unwieldy than a laptop.
         | 
         | I ask because I also like the vague idea of not taking a
         | laptop, but I'm not going to do any serious typing on a screen
         | keyboard and adding an external keyboard makes the iPad less
         | portable than a laptop (plus you probably need a stand and
         | mouse as well to reach the physical usability of a laptop).
        
           | post_break wrote:
           | I'm the same way. My iPad is smaller, lighter, has cellular
           | so I can get in generally everywhere. The battery (before my
           | M1 Macbook Pro) lasted much longer, and didn't put out heat.
           | It also had my movies for the plane. So it was killing two
           | birds with one stone.
        
       | reportgunner wrote:
       | > _I 'm typing this post on my iPhone in the Obsidian iOS app
       | using a Logitech K380 Bluetooth keyboard and I feel like a 90s
       | computer hacker._
       | 
       | 90's computer hacker ? I don't know, this sounds nearly as
       | consumer as it gets.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | Yeah, that would be more like, a half dozen used ThinkPads
         | under each arm, each running a different OS :)
        
       | danohuiginn wrote:
       | For me, a folding bluetooth keyboard was what made the
       | difference. It really tilts my default time-to-fill behavior from
       | consuming towards producing. I'd also recommend having a ring on
       | the back of your phone, so you can prop it at a good viewing
       | angle.
       | 
       | I've been writing with obsidian, coding via ssh. Jupyter
       | notebooks and other browser-based environments are also good,
       | though much smoother with a tablet-sized screen.
        
       | paraknight wrote:
       | I've been saying this for ages -- the future setup is going to be
       | phones as a singular device. When you get home, you'll dock it to
       | be able to use your peripherals or extra monitors. Phones will
       | become even more powerful, but even then anything heavy can be
       | done in the cloud or at the network edge (with minimal latency
       | thanks to 5g, see cloud gaming). OSs will become more convergent
       | (Windows tried it, Huawei's doing it, PureOS if you're into
       | Linux) but that won't even matter as the browser will be the de
       | facto OS if it isn't already. Responsive web apps (through PWAs)
       | will get native-level capabilities with the browser as a
       | compatibility layer, and traditional OSs will simply be browser-
       | running machines.
        
         | gjulianm wrote:
         | I don't think it's going down that path. We're seeing people
         | use phones more and more, and a lot of people don't seem to
         | need a computer for most tasks. Why buy a dock plus keyboard
         | plus mouse plus monitor when you can just use your phone?
         | 
         | People that _do need_ a computer-like device probably won 't
         | have enough with a phone, and will need something more powerful
         | than browser-based applications. Not to mention that a lot
         | applications would be far more expensive if moved to the cloud
         | (imagine a video editor where you not only pay for the software
         | but also for the storage + computing power to the provider).
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | I'm not convinced. Not because it's technically unviable, but
         | because I know that when companies like Google are involved
         | it'd be far too restrictive for my taste. And as soon as you
         | also want some local computing power (even if just for the
         | situations it's offline) it's more expensive than hardware in a
         | larger format like laptops - even more so when you need an
         | upgrade, because phones can't be upgraded (or even repaired in
         | some cases).
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | > even then anything heavy can be done in the cloud or at the
         | network edge (with minimal latency thanks to 5g, see cloud
         | gaming).
         | 
         | Hard doubt. And anyways, why 5G? I don't see any figures where
         | 5G outperforms fiber in latency.
        
           | FroshKiller wrote:
           | Even if it did, that's only talking about latency pushing the
           | image down. I wouldn't expect input latency to ever improve
           | to the point that most gamers play exclusively via cloud.
        
         | jhatemyjob wrote:
         | Never gonna happen with phones. iOS / Android are too dominant
         | in the "phone" space. It's gonna be a entirely different class
         | of device.
        
         | selfhoster11 wrote:
         | Hell no. Real techie software is basically a third-class
         | citizen on smartphones at this point, with the promise of being
         | locked out even more. The cloud is not a solution to everyone's
         | problems, thanks to what it can or cannot do (technical
         | problems), and thanks to the fact that some just don't trust it
         | or don't want a recurring subscription (socioeconomic factors).
         | If you ever want to upgrade the hardware, you'll also need
         | somewhere to install it, and dongles won't suffice.
         | 
         | Some people may be happy with this future, much like people who
         | create and process lightweight office documents on iPads. But
         | there will always be demand for singular PCs or laptops.
        
         | perryizgr8 wrote:
         | Samsung Dex is pretty usable IMO. Unfortunately phone hardware
         | seems to be just a bit lacking when you try to do desktop-like
         | things. My galaxy S10 can keep up for a short time, but having
         | lots of browser tabs open, a vs code instance, whatsapp open in
         | the background can degrade performance after a few minutes when
         | the phone starts getting hot.
         | 
         | It seems to me the CPU/GPU can burst pretty well (maybe
         | approaching ultrabook-style laptops) but sustained performance
         | is just not there yet.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Nope, not even.
         | 
         | 1) This would be tolerable with some PinePhone successor, but
         | proprietary solutions like Samsung DEX are conducive to lock-
         | in, more difficult for developers to target, and tend to go
         | unsupported after a few years.
         | 
         | 2) Phones have to become more durable. I expect my primary
         | computing device to last half a decade. My phone's USB-C port
         | is flaky after just over 2 years of charging it and carrying it
         | around. How is it going to last if I'm plugging and unplugging
         | it to/from some desktop rig?
         | 
         | 3) They have to become more repairable too. "If it's broken,
         | throw it away and buy new" just isn't tenable for a primary PC.
         | 
         | 4) Getting everybody on board with "live in the pod, eat the
         | bugs, use the cloud-connected thin client" is not going to
         | happen.
        
           | diffeomorphism wrote:
           | Concerning 2) magnetic usb-c connectors are nice and wireless
           | is an option, e.g. see the Lenovo wigig dock for an
           | implementation.
           | 
           | Concerning 3) I think things are moving in the other
           | direction. With immutable base OS and data seamlessy backed
           | up (encrypted, of course) switching to a new device should be
           | fairly frustration free.
           | 
           | For 4) I think we will see more and more of a mixture. For
           | instance better integration of cloud storage, things like
           | game streaming, more video streaming etc. . So not thin
           | client, but not fully featured offline either.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | > the future setup is going to be phones as a singular device
         | 
         | I had a four-day weekend where the only device I had was my
         | Android phone. I needed to work on a release of our software,
         | so I had to fix a few bugs, write a press release, get content
         | ready for the website. On the way out, I grabbed the laptop
         | bag, but forgot the laptop. On some of the higher-end android
         | devices, if you plug them into a monitor you get desktop mode.
         | So down to the hotel "business center" I went with my LG Wing
         | and plugged in a monitor, keyboard and mouse using the usb-c
         | dongle I usually use as a hub for my laptop. A lot of the apps
         | played nice, so email (Fairemail is a fantastic piece of
         | software), word processing (Google Docs App), editing
         | screenshots (PicSayPro) and SSH(Connectbot) were all fantastic.
         | Could Android desktop mode use a little polish? Sure. For any
         | serious development, I'd prefer to edit and test on
         | localhost... but honestly, the experience wasn't bad, and from
         | time to time I'll go phone-only to the office if I know I'm not
         | going to be coding all day.
        
         | chewz wrote:
         | I am using old Android Xperia 10 with Termux, Apple Bluetooth
         | keyboard and Chromcast screen to 27 inch TV. With Termux I will
         | ssh into my server (using mosh).
         | 
         | Pretty decent and stable setup... And free as I have just
         | gathered some old hardware pieces...
        
         | arc-in-space wrote:
         | > anything heavy can be done in the cloud or at the network
         | edge (with minimal latency thanks to 5g, see cloud gaming)
         | 
         | It's interesting that people often handwave latency like this
         | as if it was a solved problem. As instructed, I have seen cloud
         | gaming: it's an unmitigated disaster, held back by mere trifles
         | such the limits of information travel speed imposed by our
         | physical universe.
        
         | eloisant wrote:
         | No I don't think so.
         | 
         | To be able to dock it you need a screen and keyboard (or a
         | laptop-style "shell"). That means you need a device that takes
         | just as much space as an independent device but can't be used
         | unless you plug your phone to it. The only benefit is a slight
         | lower cost - but then you need to make sure your phone is
         | powerful enough so a cheap Android is out of the picture.
         | 
         | You've been saying this for ages, and manufacturers have been
         | trying it for ages (Motorola Atrix, Samsung Dex...) but it
         | doesn't catch on. So maybe you should reconsider your
         | prediction!
        
           | Zababa wrote:
           | > The only benefit is a slight lower cost
           | 
           | Not only that, but having a single source of truth for your
           | files, OS and things like that.
        
           | lmm wrote:
           | Now that I'm using a Surface Book 2 as my primary computer,
           | with a Surface Dock set up on my desk at home with
           | screen/keyboard/speakers/etc., I'm more confident than ever
           | that this future is coming eventually - but also confident
           | that it will take a long time. Having a single device makes a
           | surprisingly big difference from having two separate devices
           | (home PC and travel laptop), but is also not worth
           | sacrificing power for. The technical users who will become
           | early adopters want a first-class home PC, so just as laptops
           | only started to actually displace desktops once they had
           | enough RAM etc. to match them, it'll be the same for phones,
           | and they'll probably need to be x86-based phones for the sake
           | of being able to run old programs.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | > they'll probably need to be x86-based phones for the sake
             | of being able to run old programs.
             | 
             | Maybe its the other way around?
             | 
             | Maybe we need to wait until the old way of doing things is
             | so forgotten we can accept the phone-way as a valid way. As
             | long has people have their x86 applications, they'll want
             | to use them. Once people stop caring - well then there is
             | an app for that.
        
             | codetrotter wrote:
             | Apple already made it possible on macOS to run x86_64
             | software on their ARM computers, with Rosetta 2.
             | 
             | Any company with enough resources could do the same if they
             | felt so inclined.
             | 
             | And if Apple wanted to, Apple could make Rosetta 2 run on
             | iOS devices. For now they want to keep them mostly
             | separate, and are more about running iPad apps on macOS
             | than the other way around. But there is nothing stopping
             | Apple from running desktop software, whether compiled for
             | x86_64 or for ARM, on iOS devices if they wanted to. And if
             | convergence turns out to be the future then I think we may
             | see them do that eventually. But I am not convinced that it
             | will.
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | >Apple could make Rosetta 2 run on iOS devices
               | 
               | From what I understand, M1 Macs have specialised hardware
               | that allows them to emulate x64 with good performance.
               | It's not just software.
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | Was not aware of that. But either way in that case they
               | can do something similar in the hardware for future iOS
               | devices, if they wish to.
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Years ago I had a similar thought to parent, only without the
           | dock. I figured phones would have micro projectors to throw a
           | display on any convenient wall and a laser keyboard[0] to
           | throw onto a table.
           | 
           | These days I no longer think that'll happen largely because
           | the kinds of things people want a desktop computer for are
           | really much better served by an actual computer, while mobile
           | users have adapted to not even wanting a desk.
           | 
           | [0] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0531/2285/9174/products
           | /im...
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _you need a device that takes just as much space as an
           | independent device but can 't be used unless you plug your
           | phone to it_
           | 
           | Flip side: it's a device that just works, doesn't need to be
           | kept patched and updated and where syncing is never an issue.
           | It's an external monitor for your phone plus a keyboard.
           | 
           | The prediction has fallen on its face due to the mobile
           | component not being central enough. If half my life is on my
           | laptop and half on my phone, a desktop makes sense. (Though I
           | go for external monitors to my laptop.) But if all my stuff
           | is on my phone, losing the syncing tax becomes more
           | meaningful.
        
           | stonemetal12 wrote:
           | We are already there with laptops and laptop docks. It could
           | certainly be a cellphone dock in the future but the phones
           | just aren't powerful enough now. Maybe an iPhone with an M2
           | or M3?
        
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