[HN Gopher] Former eBay employee gets 18 months in prison for cy...
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Former eBay employee gets 18 months in prison for cyberstalking
campaign
Author : tomcam
Score : 132 points
Date : 2021-07-27 19:44 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| acomjean wrote:
| I've been following this a little. I grew up near the
| Massachusetts town where this occurred (Its a pretty non-descript
| suburban town).
|
| So that fact that a big company and high up executives decided to
| target a very home spun news letter, is just crazy. Its like
| something went off the rails.
|
| Ars has pretty good coverage.
|
| The harassment was bizarre and threatening: sending roaches and
| pig masks is just the wierd start: Sending a book on "how to
| survive the loss of a spouse" is really dark.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/ebay-execs-sent-...
|
| more recent:
|
| https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/lawsuit-ebay-tri...
| NavinF wrote:
| Anyone got a link to the newsletter?
|
| I'm really curious what the eBay execs found so offensive.
| acomjean wrote:
| Based on the name it would be:
|
| https://www.ecommercebytes.com
|
| it still contains the authors names on the posts and on the
| about page.
| NavinF wrote:
| Thanks. If they wrote anything controversial, they must
| have deleted it. Most of the posts related to eBay are of
| the "According to Bloomberg..." variety. No hard hitting
| journalism to be found here.
|
| The comments below each article are indeed salty about
| eBay, but no more so than your typical eBay seller on the
| official forums.
|
| I have no idea what got the execs so riled up. There's
| gotta be something more to this story.
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| > a book on "how to survive the loss of a spouse" is really
| dark
|
| That's evidence in some states....
| hacknat wrote:
| Who wants to follow up to see what this guy gets after 18 months
| of prison for keeping his mouth shut?
| OhMidER wrote:
| "Never rat on your friends, and always keep your mouth shut."
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Mfs44MhYM
| khazhoux wrote:
| I barely have enough time in a week to keep up with emails and
| meetings, without crashing exhausted at the end of every day. I
| can't imagine having time in my schedule to travel across the
| country, send live cockroaches over mail, plan to plant GPS
| trackers on vehicles, etc.
|
| I have to work on my time management!
| yawaworht1978 wrote:
| Ah the c level got away with it....for now. Most likely these
| office bullies will be subject to diverse forms of stalking in
| prison. Prison is a different set of rules, can't hide behind
| corporate procedures and helpers. Maybe if they have a horrible
| experience while incarcerated, they might wanna get back at the
| CEO.
|
| I have read about this case years ago and have forgotten about
| it, very surprised that this took so long.
| walrus01 wrote:
| more detail: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/26/technology/ebay-
| cockroach...
|
| https://www.wired.com/story/ebay-employees-charged-cyberstal...
| [deleted]
| bamboo2 wrote:
| Way too lenient.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| It's stalking and harassment incidents like these that I'm
| reminded of any time someone tells me they've got nothing to
| hide.
| mynameishere wrote:
| _any time someone tells me they 've got nothing to hide._
|
| Has anyone ever actually uttered that particular strawman
| argument to you? I think it may be the second most commonly
| used one.
| dec0dedab0de wrote:
| my mother, my best friend, multiple co-workers and ex
| girlfriends. Even one person who grew up under the Warsaw
| Pact, and defected. He would say it, even when he did have
| something to hide, because he knew that the powers that be
| could always use something against you. Also known as CYA.
| vmception wrote:
| fascinating rebuttal, so because you - a random account -
| didn't notice it before, it must be a strawman argument.
|
| I don't really understand the utility of going that
| direction? Like, are you advocating for something in
| particular such as anti-privacy measures or are really just
| independently unaware that people would say something while
| that's fascinating enough to you that it would be a fictional
| argument that you feel undermine "pro-privacy" talking points
|
| Its just hard to see why it would bother you enough to
| invalidate it
| antonzabirko wrote:
| It's used all the time everywhere. From the CCP surveillance,
| to forced police searches, to normalizing lack of privacy in
| apartment living, the examples are endless.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Yes. It happens a lot when pointing out privacy consciousness
| to a layman. Not that I do that often, but when I do, it's
| the overwhelmingly disproportionate response. Only followed
| by something about being worth it for the convenience.
| graedus wrote:
| Not a strawman at all, it's a very common attitude if you are
| not on HN or in a similar bubble. I heard it in person
| (verbatim, actually) about 5 days ago.
| npteljes wrote:
| Happened to me too, and those who told me practically handled
| it as a conscious tradeoff. They give up some privacy,
| whatever, they're not doing anything extraordinary, and they
| reap some benefits.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Interestingly, I can't tell if you mean the stalkers should
| have less privacy or the stalkees should have more privacy (so
| they don't get targeted for stalking).
|
| Privacy is a tool. Its benefits can help or harm.
| willis936 wrote:
| That's the anti-privacy propaganda working.
| duxup wrote:
| More likely it's just people being foolish.
| [deleted]
| Lammy wrote:
| Impressive how they managed to nail seven underlings for doing it
| (five plead guilty; two went to trial[0]) but not CEO Devin Wenig
| for ordering[1] it, instead giving him a $57 million golden
| parachute straight into GM's Cruise. I wonder if Wenig being CEO
| of Thomson Reuters Markets from 2008 to 2011 has any effect on
| the way Reuters reports on this eBay scandal:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Wenig
|
| [0]: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/two-former-ebay-
| executive...
|
| [1]: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/white-collar-and-criminal-
| law/...
| techrat wrote:
| Rich people don't go to jail.
| adventured wrote:
| Rich people do go to jail. These are just some of the bigger,
| more famous fish -
|
| John Kapoor, Bernie Ebbers, Scott Sullivan, Jeff Skilling,
| Martin Grass, John and Timothy Rigas, Bernie Madoff, Michael
| Milken, Richard Scrushy, Joseph Nacchio, Martha Stewart, Ivan
| Boesky, Jordan Belfort, Sanjay Kumar, Allen Stanford, Raj
| Rajaratnam, Walter Forbes, Eddie Antar, Dennis Kozlowski, Sam
| Waksal, Alfred Taubman, Russell Wasendorf, Samuel Israel III,
| Stewart Parnell, Chris Collins, Kareem Serageldin, Andrew
| Fastow, Charles Keating, Martin Shkreli, Barry Minkow,
| Michael Steinberg, Phil Spector, Bill Cosby, Michael
| Avenatti, Harvey Weinstein, Suge Knight, Jeffrey Epstein, Ken
| Lay (escaped prison by dying)
|
| To this list you can add hundreds of bankers from the Savings
| & Loan crisis that went to prison, and a large number of
| famous embezzlement cases involving large sums (eg John
| Doorly, Sujata Sachdeva, Melissa King, Omino Siddiqui).
|
| It's too bad the Obama Admin intentionally chose not to
| pursue almost any prosecutions after the most recent
| financial crisis, or you could probably staple many more
| names to this list. One of the greatest avoid-jail corporate
| hand-outs in US history, representing hyper corruption at the
| highest levels.
| fundad wrote:
| The "former eBay employee" was pretty high up in eBay
| security operations and also a former police Captain and they
| don't come cheap. He's less rich than the CEO but can
| definitely afford more than the paltry $15,000 fine.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Mostly because rich people can pay someone else to mail
| cockroaches to their enemies instead of getting their own
| hands dirty.
| [deleted]
| javajosh wrote:
| "Rich people don't go to jail" is a tautology masquerading as
| cynicism. In a world where nothing happens unless it's paid
| for, then it follows that _more happens_ when there is _more
| money_ involved. This includes criminal defense, where more
| money means more defensive moves which, in general, means a
| better defense.
|
| For the record, I think this is a strong argument _for_ a
| world where things happen despite you not paying for them,
| and to level the playing field (spending) in a few key areas,
| like legal defense and political speech. Imagine if even rich
| people were forced to use the public defender; you would see
| an immediate improvement in their quality!
| nkingsy wrote:
| "While there's no suggestion in court papers that Wenig knew of
| the plot, prosecutors say his angry emails triggered the
| scheme, and they play a central role in the narrative spelled
| out by the government.
|
| "Take her down," Wenig is alleged to have written in response
| to a post by the blogger."
|
| That would be the smoking gun, but who's alleging it? Article
| didn't say.
| khazhoux wrote:
| There are plenty of legal interpretations of "take her down."
| E.g., file a hard-hitting lawsuit.
|
| I will give the CEO the benefit of the doubt that he did not
| mean: "Take a half-dozen people and engage in a massive,
| obsessive, batshit-crazy online and real-world cross-state
| harassment campaign."
| whatshisface wrote:
| You don't think it could have come out over coffee one day?
| khazhoux wrote:
| I have to assume there was no evidence of that, or else
| he'd be charged too.
| whatshisface wrote:
| Well, no evidence and benefit of the doubt are separate
| concepts. You can say that no record was made of it, and
| that it probably happened.
| da_chicken wrote:
| "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest? With a sword,
| ideally."
| tomcam wrote:
| Appropriate quote, love the edit
| ghaff wrote:
| The same thought occurred. And, even if prosecutors
| correctly thought that this was a waste of time to take to
| trial, GM saying nope "nothing here" doesn't, shall we say,
| impress me.
| cactus2093 wrote:
| Is that even a smoking gun? Surely that one text message is
| not enough to prove that he meant "harass and cyberstalk her"
| rather than "sue her for libel" or some other non-criminal
| action.
| nkingsy wrote:
| I just know from my big Corp training manual that things
| like "crush" and "take down" should never be in corporate
| communication for legal reasons.
|
| From a "reasonable" perspective, there are two
| possibilities, both of which implicate the ceo.
|
| 1. "Take her down" was enough information, in which case he
| is at fault.
|
| 2. It wasn't enough information, in which case further
| discussion was had offline.
|
| I am convinced beyond reasonable doubt that there is no
| option: 3. The employees thought it was enough information
| incorrectly and began a criminal conspiracy because they're
| just so eager to please.
| pyuser583 wrote:
| But enough information for what?
|
| Let's say they had previous conversations about how to
| handle hostile media.
|
| Ideas included raising concerns with editors, pulling
| advertising, raising concerns with platforms/ISPs about
| "disinformation", suing for libel, etc.
|
| So yes the CEO is implicated. He's clearly in the
| decision chain - no doubt about it. But there's nothing
| here about how much was deferred to subordinates.
|
| I guess that falls into the category of "offline
| discussion" - but that doesn't mean anything nefarious.
| pessimizer wrote:
| It's like Bridgegate. The way these people become powerful is
| by being smart enough to both delegate crime and never write
| anything down about it.
| nickff wrote:
| Former director of homeland security Janet Napolitano has
| actually stated that she avoided e-mails, and did everything
| in-person of via phone calls (presumably to avoid documenting
| her actions and motives).
| pyuser583 wrote:
| Very common for high level officials. Or low level
| officials for that matter.
|
| There was scandal in a city I lived in. It turned out city
| council members were turning off their cell phones and
| actually talking face to face during council meeting
| bathroom breaks.
|
| The press was ticked, because they were used to accessing
| the SMS messages.
|
| The council members pushed back hard - nasty blog posts
| were written - and the press ended up looking a little
| silly and spoiled.
| hacknat wrote:
| "It is the curse of kings to be attended By slaves that take
| their humors for a warrant"
| jeeyoungk wrote:
| So the executives who ordered this are getting away with this?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| They claim not to have known about the harassment and stalking.
| adamc wrote:
| Which is a reminder: If you are going to do unethical things,
| make sure you can _prove_ that your bosses ordered it.
| Otherwise, in addition to being a rat, you will likely twist
| in the wind.
| Lammy wrote:
| "Let's take this offline"
| andruby wrote:
| I once worked on a startup founded by lawyers and they
| would do this all the time. Never put things in writing
| that they might be flexible on later. I hated that part.
| triceratops wrote:
| "Just to recap our conversation earlier..."
| trhway wrote:
| take the notes, conspicuously, and accompanied by several
| "come again please, i'm taking notes" if over the phone,
| ostensibly to make sure that you're doing it to carry the
| Leader's order in all the glorious details. Kind of James
| Comey or North Korea style. Years ago, an acquaintance, a
| former captain of Soviet Army who served at the place
| pretty intense even during the peace time, had some funny
| stories how such habit saved his bacon on various
| occasions and it made me remember that advice.
| OminousWeapons wrote:
| Yup, always note your concerns and objections via email and
| make sure to CC the appropriate people.
| HoverSausage wrote:
| It's their job to know
| ilamont wrote:
| Yes. Even though they were "implicated in some of the text
| messages captured by the FBI":
|
| _Defendant Devin Wenig, then Chief Executive Officer of eBay,
| and Defendant Steven Wymer, then Senior Vice President and
| Chief Communications Officer of eBay, consistently tracked
| EcommerceBytes ' reporting, and became increasingly enraged by
| what they perceived as the Steiners' negative coverage of eBay
| and the upper echelons of the corporation._
|
| "Natick couple terrorized in eBay pig-mask campaign sue auction
| giant"
|
| https://www.universalhub.com/2021/natick-couple-terrorized-e...
| na85 wrote:
| Yes there's a separate set of laws for the wealthy corporate
| class.
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(page generated 2021-07-27 23:01 UTC)