[HN Gopher] Pre-crime: Sheriff's letter targets residents for 'i...
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       Pre-crime: Sheriff's letter targets residents for 'increased
       accountability'
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2021-07-25 20:28 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tampabay.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tampabay.com)
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | "You have been selected to take part in an upcoming class action
       | lawsuit against the Pasco County Sheriff's Office."
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | This article is a prime example of law enforcement passing the
       | buck of responsibility for their own actions to a black box
       | system by claiming that the system's output is "unbiased".
       | 
       | > _"You may wonder why you were enrolled in this program," the
       | letter continues. "You were selected as a result of an evaluation
       | of your recent criminal behavior using an unbiased, evidence-
       | based risk assessment designed to identify prolific offenders in
       | our community. As a result of this designation, we will go to
       | great efforts to encourage change in your life through enhanced
       | support and increased accountability."_
       | 
       | > _Last year, a Tampa Bay Times investigation revealed that the
       | Sheriff's Office creates lists of people it considers likely to
       | break the law based on criminal histories, social networks and
       | other unspecified intelligence. The agency sends deputies to
       | their homes repeatedly, often without a search warrant or
       | probable cause for an arrest._
       | 
       | Now law enforcement gets absolve themselves of accusations of
       | bias or targetting because they assume that their computers can't
       | be "biased", even though they only buy systems that confirm their
       | own hunches about which people are criminals or not.
       | 
       | If anyone complains, they can say they were only doing what the
       | supposedly unbiased system told them to do, after all.
        
         | mcguire wrote:
         | Not to mention,
         | 
         | " _The Times found being named a Sheriff's Office target could
         | have serious consequences. Deputies showed up at homes at all
         | hours of the day and night, writing tickets for violations like
         | overgrown grass and making arrests for any reason they could
         | find. By 2020, some 1,000 people had been ensnared. About 100
         | were 18 years old or younger._ "
         | 
         | "Since we have determined that you are a criminal, we will
         | ensure that you are a criminal."
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | It's hilarious because the shit they're basing their model on
         | (arrests/contacts with police) is biased as hell
        
           | anonydsfsfs wrote:
           | Even if you haven't had any contact with the police, they can
           | still put you on the list if they suspect you committed a
           | crime. The manual they follow[0] uses a point-based system,
           | and "suspicions of an offense" counts for half the points of
           | actually committing the offense:
           | 
           | > * Half of the applicable point values are awarded for
           | suspicions of an offense listed in 1-4.
           | 
           | [0] https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/20412738/ilp_manua
           | l01...
        
       | steve76 wrote:
       | This letter is in a foreign language called "big city liberal
       | democrat caught between burn the world marxists and panicked
       | townsfolk running from the movie monster of failed activist
       | government policies". Here. Let me translate:
       | 
       | KID!
       | 
       | YOU ABOUT TO BE MERKED BY HARD CORE CRIMINALS. WE KNOW. WE'RE THE
       | COPS. SEE YOU ON THE CORONER SLAB.
        
       | jrs235 wrote:
       | Wow. And sadly many "small government", "pro police" folks are
       | for this until they find themselves on the list. Those that
       | support 'law and order' (authoritarian values, as opposed to
       | 'orderly justice' values) never think they'll be wrongly accused
       | or harassed until it's too late. "First they came for the ..."
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | da_big_ghey wrote:
         | small government persons are seldom pro police persons. the
         | former recognize latter as necesary evil but are not supporting
         | much.
        
           | jrs235 wrote:
           | "quotes"
        
       | onetimeuse83 wrote:
       | Haha, "your social score is too low citizen!
       | 
       | And you should get a haircut."
       | 
       | Sometimes it looks like China and US are converging.
       | 
       | Maybe those in "the program" should be temporarily reeducated
       | like the Uyghurs.
       | 
       | Amazing.
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | Previously,
       | https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/p...
       | 
       |  _> The Pasco Sheriff's Office keeps a secret list of kids it
       | thinks could "fall into a life of crime" based on factors like
       | whether they've been abused or gotten a D or an F in school,
       | according to the agency 's internal intelligence manual. The
       | Sheriff's Office assembles the list by combining the rosters for
       | most middle and high schools in the county with records so
       | sensitive, they're protected by state and federal law. Four
       | hundred and twenty kids are on the list ... The Sheriff's Office
       | said it does not inform students or their parents if they've been
       | added to its list of potential future criminals._
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Isn't this illegal? How is the student data making its way into
         | the sheriff department's hands?
         | 
         | This reminds me of the 1990 film Pump Up The Volume [0] where
         | the school's dean was creating dossiers on singled out
         | students, which was eventually portrayed as a criminal act in
         | the end.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_Up_the_Volume_(film)
         | 
         | [0.0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100436/
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Most of the ways that police enforce their views on the
           | population in the USA are technically illegal.
           | 
           | Only a small percentage of it has to do with actually
           | enforcing the law. The majority of it is curbing behaviors
           | that threaten the status quo.
        
             | kortilla wrote:
             | > Most of the ways that police enforce their views on the
             | population in the USA are technically illegal.
             | 
             | Whose views and what does it mean to "enforce views"? Are
             | you talking about enforcing laws passed by the government
             | or something else?
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Most of the things that police in the US spend their time
               | on has almost nothing to do with violations of the law.
               | 
               | That's the cover story, and it no longer holds up.
               | 
               | Police show up to close out trouble tickets, not to
               | enforce laws.
               | 
               | I have written about this specifically:
               | 
               | https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-
               | ame...
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | Your article doesn't seem to have any stats. Can you back
               | up the assertion that they are not spending their
               | enforcing laws? You have a lot of handwaving about the
               | history of police departments and pushback against like
               | bodycams but nothing concrete.
               | 
               | The police in my area spend most of their time enforcing
               | traffic laws, responding to domestic disturbances, etc.
               | Murders are taken very seriously, regardless of who was
               | murdered.
               | 
               | Based on my actual experience living with police in a
               | boring suburbia, your article comes across as completely
               | out of touch with reality due to no actual experience.
               | 
               | Have you considered that the reason there isn't an
               | explicit law that police have to respond to a given call
               | is because there is immense political and therefore
               | organizational pressure for them to do so? The county
               | sheriff or the mayor would get voted out if that was a
               | pattern in our local government and then police leaders
               | would get fired.
        
               | op00to wrote:
               | "Black people are criminals" "Undocumented immigrants are
               | dangerous" "Rich white men can't commit crimes"
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | And you think those are actual views of black police
               | officers? Or do you think maybe something more systemic
               | is going on?
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | > Most of the ways that police enforce their views on the
             | population in the USA are technically illegal.
             | 
             | I'm not even referring to the police though, the _school
             | 's_ administration is violating the student's rights AIUI.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | Part of this police department's intelligence program was
         | posted on HN[1] before. The body cam footage[2] from it is
         | horrifying.
         | 
         | Here's a summary of the program and how the department feels
         | about it and those they target[3]:
         | 
         | > _The motivation of the program is more sinister than merely
         | "fighting crime": The Sheriff's Office acknowledged that they
         | want these "problem people" gone. Pasco County Sheriff Chris
         | Nocco, the architect of the program, boasted that the goal was
         | to predict which residents are likely to commit crimes and then
         | "take them out." In the words of a former Pasco County deputy,
         | they were under orders to "[m]ake their lives miserable until
         | they move or sue."_
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24363871
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/p...
         | 
         | [3] https://ij.org/case/pasco-predictive-policing/
        
           | BoiledCabbage wrote:
           | > "they were under orders to "[m]ake their lives miserable
           | until they move or sue."
           | 
           | Disgusting.
        
       | cartoonworld wrote:
       | Reading the articles, I've found the Pasco Sheriff ILP manual[0]
       | in question which was obtained by Tampa Bay Times. The section
       | specifically relating to kids is on Page 70. Interesting read,
       | though I haven't had much time to ingest all the details.
       | 
       | It appears as if the sheriffs have been creating dossiers since
       | 2011. Is sheriffs really this well funded in Florida? Where i am
       | from, the sheriff is essentially the court agent, transporting
       | prisoners, seizing defaulted property, serving some process, etc
       | 
       | If you are well informed, I am interested in learning about the
       | analytics and tools they are using. The report mentions CompStat,
       | Problem Oriented Policing and a methodology called SARA (scan
       | assess respond analyze) as well as post-9/11 derived information
       | sharing developments. They have ALPR and video feeds from some in
       | their community as well they are using, and also mention in
       | passing facial recognition to identify the unidentified.. uh
       | whoever.
       | 
       | [0] -
       | https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20412738-ilp_manual0...
        
         | rossdavidh wrote:
         | Well, if it's been in place since 2011, we should be able to
         | see a sizeable drop in crime in then?
         | 
         | #murders in Pasco County, FL in 2011: 13 #murders in Pasco
         | County, FL in 2019: 14 annual links available here:
         | http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FSAC/County-Profiles/Pasco.aspx
         | 
         | Now murder's only one crime, and I haven't done any
         | sophisticated comparison (e.g. how does this compare to
         | population growth, national or state trends, etc.). But it's
         | not obvious that this is a program that is paying off.
         | 
         | If you're doing something this obnoxious, you'd better have a
         | really big, positive payoff to point to.
        
         | content_sesh wrote:
         | Appendix B (pg 76) contains the extremely dystopianly named
         | Prolific Offender Calculation, which I think is the criteria
         | applied to the letter recipients in this article
        
           | anonydsfsfs wrote:
           | The most egregious part is:
           | 
           | > * Half of the applicable point values are awarded for
           | suspicions of an offense listed in 1-4.
           | 
           | So you don't actually have to do anything to get a high
           | score, you just need to be "suspected" of having done
           | something.
        
       | pope_meat wrote:
       | Oh, yes, I do love hearing about "increased accountability" from
       | the police, the most accountable group of people in our society.
        
         | content_sesh wrote:
         | I'd argue that by their own criteria, every member of the Pasco
         | Sheriffs Office should be on this list, given that rates of
         | domestic violence are 2-4x higher in police household than US
         | households in general.
         | 
         | citation: https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-
         | police-...
         | 
         | edit: Someone posted an unredacted version of the 2018 version
         | of the Pasco Sheriffs Office ILP manual in another comment.
         | Appendix B lays out the specific criteria they use. It appears
         | they tally up the number arrests or bookings (but "suspicious"
         | are not counted). I'm not a criminal law expert, but it sounds
         | like that just means the more time the cops haul you in the
         | higher your score is, even if you're never convicted of any of
         | it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Note that this link is a new study, not the previous bogus
           | 40% study that had a very small sample size and counted
           | yelling as violence.
        
       | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
       | How is it that the police have the time of day to do this? Aren't
       | there homicides and cold cases to go over? Rape and domestic
       | violence cases to persecute?
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | This is the result of overfunding. If there is no work to do
         | then work will be created. In this case that work is actively
         | harmful to the people who fund the department.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-25 23:01 UTC)