[HN Gopher] UK Weather: Flooding in London after heavy rain
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       UK Weather: Flooding in London after heavy rain
        
       Author : montalbano
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2021-07-25 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | The first time this hit a week or two ago our patio "flooded" to
       | about 4 or 5 cm deep in water alarmingly quickly. I grabbed a
       | broom and jiggled around the drain to remove some
       | leaves/twigs/mud and it cleared within 30 seconds. Today, no
       | flood on our patio
       | 
       | I wonder what the state of the drains are in most of London's
       | streets considering the recent lack of basic services due to
       | covid... This is not exactly new - its not like we don't get rain
       | in London so I am surprised this is happening quite so frequently
       | 
       | It would not surprise me to hear that basic street cleaning has
       | been totally neglected for the past 18 months
        
         | gerdesj wrote:
         | Pop down to Screwfix or whatever and grab a set of drain rods
         | (about PS30-50) and some manhole cover lifters (a few quid).
         | Some long flat screwdrivers and a jemmy are also useful for
         | lifting covers. Wear marigolds or marigolds under rigger gloves
         | or those red coloured anti chemical gloves (watch out for
         | holes.) Find out what is your responsibility to keep clear.
         | 
         | The drains are fine for what they are designed to deal with
         | which is weather as it was known many decades ago. All that
         | stuff is designed to deal with a 1 in n year event eg a 1 in
         | 100 year event or 1 in 500 or 1 in 1000 etc. The problem is
         | that 1 in 100 year events are happening nearly annually these
         | days. It's not quite as bad as that but not far off.
         | 
         | Have a think about where you are in relation to flooding events
         | because they will happen more often and with increasing
         | severity where you are. If you have a mate who is a Civil
         | Engineer or a Hydrologist, works in Flooding in the
         | Environmental Agency or other useful type, instead of a banker
         | or IT (I'm an ex Civ Eng and now work in IT - bloody useless)
         | then buy them a beer or two and ask for advice.
         | 
         | Keep your drains clear and your guttering too.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | My back garden gets flooded due to that all the time. The
         | neighbour puts their food down the sink so it blocks up under
         | the ground. You end up with peas in the grass the day after.
         | The birds seem to make short work of it and the grass grows
         | nicely so I'm not overly bothered.
         | 
         | Streets however round us require wellies if it has been
         | raining.
        
         | bearbin wrote:
         | Anecodtally, street cleaning hasn't changed that much over the
         | pandemic, with the streets being just about as dirty as normal.
         | 
         | That said, over a longer period the main roads near me have
         | been getting quite badly deteriorated due to a lack of
         | responsive maintenance (filling potholes, repair after utility
         | works) and a lacking capital budget for resurfacing. TfL (who
         | has responsibility for maintenance of main roads as well as the
         | city's public transport) has had its overall budget reduced and
         | as road maintenance is not an important issue politically or
         | from a revenue-generation perspective that budget has been
         | reduced to a low level.
         | 
         | During the heavy rains today, I took a walk down the Camberwell
         | New Road (a major road of 2-4 lanes) and the road was
         | completely covered with water in several places, in others the
         | water covered the bus lane, although in some stretches the
         | water was clear.
         | 
         | The sewers were not overwhelmed by the rain, evidenced by the
         | drains that were flowing well and draining, however around 70%
         | of the drains were blocked, 20% by leaves and dirt which I
         | could clear off but 50% blocked internally by silt. A normal
         | maintance schedule involves cleaning the silt out with a lorry-
         | mounted vacuum cleaner several times a year, but this seems not
         | to be done! One drain was blocked by silt after a burst water
         | main about 3 years ago and has not been unblocked since,
         | despite backing up every time it rained and being reported to
         | TfL through their road defect site many times.
         | 
         | However, not all flooding can be blamed on blocked drains, as
         | some sections of the road are incorrectly pitched or have no
         | drains at all and will always pond during rain. This would
         | properly be remedied during heavy resurfacing, but that is also
         | long overdue.
        
       | scns wrote:
       | How bad is it? In germany cars swam, several people died.
        
       | m-i-l wrote:
       | Second time in under 2 weeks[0]. I wonder how much of this is
       | related to people having paved over their lawns and gardens.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57811613 from 12 July
        
         | montalbano wrote:
         | Do you have any data suggesting there has been rapid paving of
         | lawns and gardens since last year?
        
           | makomk wrote:
           | There's no reason why it would be caused merely by paving
           | over of lawns and gardens in the last year - there's a lot of
           | year-to-year variation in weather like this, and without
           | sufficient advance planning and restrictions to enforce this,
           | it's really easy to build in ways that get away without
           | flooding for a few years or even decades until they don't.
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | That won't help, of course, but that doesn't change the fact
         | these really are extreme weather events. They'd be causing
         | damage and disruption anyway. I live in south east London. Last
         | week my wife was driving home in a rain burst, she got stuck in
         | traffic and took video of water gushing up out of a drain like
         | a fountain. The road was near the bottom of a valley, and the
         | pressure in the drain pipes running down the hill must have
         | been enormous.
        
         | objclxt wrote:
         | > I wonder how much of this is related to people having paved
         | over their lawns and gardens.
         | 
         | Whilst that may well contribute, the main cause here was just
         | the sheer volume of water in such a short space of time. I was
         | right under the thunderstorm, we had about 80mm of rainfall in
         | a couple of hours. That's the equivalent of two months of
         | normal rainfall this time of year.
         | 
         | When you get it coming in that quickly the water is going to
         | run off everything.
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | In Southern California we've paved almost everything from the
         | Ocean until 50 or 60 miles inland.
        
       | montalbano wrote:
       | This is the second time in a few weeks that there has been
       | unprecedented surface water (rain, not river) induced flooding in
       | many parts of London. An NYT article from 13th July:
       | 
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/world/europe/uk-london-fl...
        
         | jfk13 wrote:
         | At this rate, we'll have to stop calling it "unprecedented".
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | It's been an incredible year. Blizzards in Texas, burning heat
         | in the northwest US, intense rain bursts in Europe and China.
         | Then of course in the last few years extreme forest fires in
         | Australia, the US and Brazil. Steadily worsening hurricanes.
         | 
         | Climate scientists have been predicting more extreme weather
         | for decades. This is just the early phase.
        
           | firebaze wrote:
           | If this is caused by climate change, we're probably doomed.
           | 
           | Suppose there is at least a 50 year latency between human
           | emissions and effect on weather, we're just starting to feel
           | the effects of the past. I really hope this is just a
           | statistical effect, but it feels like it isn't. Crossing
           | Fingers.
        
             | loopz wrote:
             | The graph in the middle of this page shows for last 2k
             | years.
             | 
             | https://www.visualcapitalist.com/global-temperature-
             | graph-18...
             | 
             | It's not like we didn't get any warnings or didn't see it
             | coming.
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | If drones can encourage rain, could they be used to delay rain or
       | spread it out over a longer time?
       | https://interestingengineering.com/the-uae-is-using-drones-t...
       | 
       |  _> rain-controlling drones engineered by the University of
       | Reading. The drones don 't create rain themselves but help to
       | jump-start rain production via cloud seeding. They "zap" the
       | clouds with an electric charge, subsequently charging the
       | droplets inside. Since the beginning of 2021, the National Center
       | of Meteorology (NCM) has conducted 126 instances of cloud
       | seeding._
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | I think the idea is to seed rain to get moisture out of the air
         | mass before it builds up too much, or before it hits population
         | centres.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | binbag wrote:
       | I look forward to Westminster taking climate change more
       | seriously now...
        
         | atc wrote:
         | How do we know these weather patterns are the product of
         | climate change?
        
         | illwrks wrote:
         | Haven't they all fecked off down to Cornwall until September...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bArray wrote:
         | > I look forward to Westminster taking climate change more
         | seriously now...
         | 
         | Despite talk of the environment in the recent G7 meeting, I
         | suspect it's going to take a backseat to economic recovery. You
         | have the ongoing issues from Brexit and the fact that the
         | government (and their opposition) have an impossible standard
         | for COVID vaccine success.
         | 
         | Also I'd be interested to hear what you want to see Westminster
         | do. I've heard a lot of ideas being thrown around, but I remain
         | sceptical.
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | Remarkable how fast the climate can change:
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17373803
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-25 23:00 UTC)