[HN Gopher] Americans' life ratings reach record high
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Americans' life ratings reach record high
Author : gorwell
Score : 95 points
Date : 2021-07-25 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.gallup.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.gallup.com)
| ChrisLTD wrote:
| Compared to 2020, this year has been amazing for Americans. But I
| wonder if the happiness will be short lived. Aside from Trump and
| Covid, the same issues we had in 2019 are lurking below the
| surface. And it's entirely possible a Trumpy figure, or even
| Trump himself, will return to power in 2024.
| tbihl wrote:
| I would say not 'possible', but more probable than in 2016.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| Its been demonstrated as both a viable political strategy and
| that there is a clear bloc of voters to use to support that
| strategy.
|
| We'll be seeing its hints in 2022 and it will be full bore in
| 2024. If the holders of the old-guard strategies (McCain
| 2008/ Biden 2020 style campaigns) want to not get trounced in
| 2024, they need to make a substantial difference in peoples
| lives to win that election. Otherwise, 'Trumpian' style
| campaigns will become the norm, as they'll be show to be more
| effective at winning elections.
|
| Might actually be more riding on 2022/ 2024 than 2016. 2016
| proved it possible; these next elections will decide if its
| reproducible.
| dominotw wrote:
| > And it's entirely possible a Trumpy figure, or even Trump
| himself, will return to power in 2024.
|
| Wouldnt that be good for this particular measure given the
| scores reached 'new recorded high's in his presidency.
| ChrisLTD wrote:
| The job market really started to heat up for the first time
| since the 1990s under Trump, which I think explains that
| phenomenon. On the flip side, even my friends and family that
| support Trump were growing tired of the baseline level of
| anxiety he was causing with his erratic proclamations.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| adventured wrote:
| That's correct. Biden with that job market would have had
| very strong political approval ratings.
|
| The US economy now has a modest, persistent labor deficit
| due to declining demographics (population growth is largely
| flat or negative for whites, blacks, hispanics). If you cut
| immigration much at this point, we'd be seeing a national
| population decline. Short of an economic catastrophe near-
| term (whether caused by Covid or other), I would expect
| Biden will get to enjoy a low unemployment rate in the next
| 2-3 years as well.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Why can't we measure our progress by ratings like these instead
| of gdp and unemployment rate?
| gardnr wrote:
| You would need to ask S&P Global Ratings that question.
| goodpoint wrote:
| Because such rating is really misleading.
| snambi wrote:
| Sounds like propaganda material.
| burlesona wrote:
| I mean, it's not hard to understand. Give everyone a bunch of
| money and most of them will fix a bunch of problems in their
| life, feel less stressed, and be more optimistic.
|
| On top of the federal stimulus, this housing bubble has a lot of
| people thinking "okay I can retire off the sale of my home now,"
| though I doubt they're thinking through where they'll live after
| that sale, nor how inflation may devalue what seems today like a
| vast accumulation of wealth on paper.
|
| The current situation makes me (a) more convinced that policies
| like a negative income tax are a superior safety net to the
| bureaucratic means tested programs we use today, and (b) more
| concerned that zero interest rate policy and the incredible
| distortions in the financial markets are going to end very badly.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Why does it have to end badly?
|
| Why can't money just always get funnier?
|
| If Central Banks guarantee to always pay more for bonds than
| what the Federal Government sold them for - what difference
| does it make if the interest rate is 0% or -5%? It's still some
| fixed, semi-guaranteed return.
|
| Inequality doesn't seem to be a major talking point in any
| major economy despite the fact that we surpassed The Belle
| Epoch peak a couple years ago.
|
| The masses don't seem concerned that inequality is sky
| rocketing. Almost everywhere >50% of people own homes -> A lot
| of them on a lot of leverage. Why should they care if Jeff
| Bezos is making >$70Bn a year on paper - when they're also
| making more on paper than they do working their jobs?
|
| Until the homeownership rate starts to plummet - I don't see
| why >50% will ever care. And if the homeowership rate does
| plummet - why can't the government just Federally back
| negative-percent-down, interest-only loans to increase
| homeownership and inflate housing prices more (both of these
| exist already in other countries)?
|
| Things can always get funnier.
|
| You know what's not going to happen... The government just sit
| back and watch 80% of the world's wealth disappear.
| briefcomment wrote:
| > "You know what's not going to happen... The government just
| sit back and watch 80% of the world's wealth disappear."
|
| Probably depends on who it's disappearing from.
| paulpauper wrote:
| People have been predicting since 2010 or so that things
| would end badly. Those that heeded such advice would have
| missed out on the biggest bull markets in stocks and real
| estate in a longtime, possibly ever. The media is obsessed
| with wealth inequality, but as you say, most people do not
| care. I think you are right.
| Clewza313 wrote:
| The article doesn't talk about money though, but factors like
| "significant enjoyment the day before", which obviously took a
| huge hit during the various phases of COVID lockdown. And this
| in turn is tied largely to social interaction and the general
| reopening the US has been experiencing.
| moltenguardian wrote:
| Wow, the graph of happiness almost matches the S&P500 returns.
| irthomasthomas wrote:
| Really? While places like Chicago and Baltimore have murder rates
| now up there with warzones. And where they filmed Rocky in Phili
| looks like the zombie apocalypse:
| https://youtu.be/-FD7xxo5ApY?t=518 Same place but parental
| warning, this one is rough.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i45JMm9hM4
| adventured wrote:
| The areas you're talking about are isolation zones. That's how
| the US functions, it's huge, sprawled out and heavily
| bifurcated as a society. The war zone areas of St Louis (60 per
| 100k murder rate, astronomical, from ~2015-2019) don't directly
| touch the majority of people that live in or near St Louis and
| go out of their way to avoid those areas. The same is true of
| Chicago. They don't buy houses near those areas, they don't
| drive through those areas, they don't shop in those areas.
|
| That's how you get Baltimore in a country with a GDP per capita
| of $68,000 - fourth highest in the world, after Switzerland,
| Ireland and Norway. Consider the context of matching up on per
| capita economic output to hyper rich tiny nations with 5m-8m
| people. The US low outcome is very low compared to those
| nations, it's median is high compared to the EU median, and
| it's top 1/4 is exceptionally high. The top 10%-15% in the US
| are far richer than the top 10%-15% in Europe.
|
| Economically the top 10%-15% outcome in Europe is Germany,
| Britain and France. The top 10%-15% outcome in the US is
| Switzerland.
|
| People that think of the US as one nation economically, are
| thinking about it entirely wrong. The US is more like Europe as
| a whole in both its diversity of outcomes and crime, with a far
| higher median income and wealth level. The worst parts of
| Baltimore are as dilapidated as the various ghettos of the
| eastern EU like Stolipinovo Bulgaria.
|
| When you picture the US top 10% you should picture Switzerland;
| when you picture the US ~10%-35% bracket you should picture
| Germany or France. When you picture the bottom 10% in the US,
| you should picture poverty in poor EU nations, you should not
| picture the bottom 10% in Switzerland. That will help you get
| your head around how the US is arranged.
| goatlover wrote:
| Talked to an Uber driver in Chicago who said he wouldn't want
| to live anywhere else because Chicago has everything he could
| want, while acknowledging that certain neighborhoods are
| dangerous, like in most cities.
| neither_color wrote:
| I wish people were more mindful of this when they critique
| our "averages" so incessantly. Certain parts of the country
| bring down the average hard, and while we SHOULD be doing
| everything possible to improve these areas, I roll my eyes
| when a European tries to use an average weighed down by
| places like Baltimore to tell me my likelihood of getting
| shot, having access to healthcare, or overall risk of
| catching a certain pandemic disease. My state had lower case
| rates than most of Europe, buddy.
| jdhn wrote:
| One thing that may be influencing optimism about the future is
| the fact that the job market is tilted in favor of job seekers
| right now. I know this is an anecdote, but I have coworkers who
| are quitting and seeing vast increases in their salary because
| the job market in tech is tight and is seemingly not getting any
| looser anytime soon. Now, they weren't earning table scraps
| before, but when you have people earning 20k to 60k more, that
| has a really big impact upon how you view the future.
| dmosley wrote:
| In other news, chocolate rations have been raised to 20 grams.
| armchairhacker wrote:
| "% thriving" pre-covid was about 56%, the worst of covid was
| about 46%, current is about 59%. "% suffering" is about 3.4%.
|
| Anecdotally, I started getting depressed during the start of the
| pandemic and again during September-December of 2020. The
| pandemic loneliness and cynicism was getting to me. Albeit, it
| never got _really_ bad. In May of 2021, I started feeling a lot
| better. Because everything is open again, and everyone else is
| optimistic.
| randcraw wrote:
| In monkey studies, when a subordinate monkey is removed from the
| presence of the alpha male, its stress level goes down and it
| shows clear emotional signs of 'thriving'.
|
| I wonder if that might help explain this improved outlook on life
| among humans since covid arose, now that so many subordinates are
| working from home and no longer under the mindful eye of a less-
| than-beloved boss.
| watwut wrote:
| Basically, when you remove aggressive assholes, other sentient
| beings become happier?
|
| This can be reproduced in human prisons or boarding schools. If
| you are not locked with bully you are happier.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| The article includes a graph that shows well-being was
| depressed during COVID. Well-being didn't reach pre-COVID
| levels until into 2021 as lockdowns were ending.
|
| There isn't much mystery here: Average people do better when
| they're more social.
|
| > I wonder if that might help explain this improved outlook on
| life among humans since covid arose, now that so many
| subordinates are working from home and no longer under the
| mindful eye of a less-than-beloved boss.
|
| The raw numbers would suggest the opposite: That people
| reported worse life satisfaction during the times most
| associated with WFH.
| axpy906 wrote:
| > The most recent results, captured June 14-20, 2021, are based
| on 4,820 U.S. adults surveyed by web as a part of the Gallup
| Panel, a probability-based, non-opt-in panel of about 120,000
| adults across all 50 states and the District of Columbia.
|
| People surveyed online have higher life ratings.
|
| Edit: to show that it's always important to understand _how_ data
| is collected.
| _rpd wrote:
| You shouldn't be downvoted. Web only vs. conventional phone
| surveys is a significant change. Cheaper, but definitely
| excludes poorer demographic sections. You can't ignore this for
| a survey about 'life ratings'.
| narrator wrote:
| Working from home and spending more time with family is probably
| a big part of it. Commuting was such an enormous daily waste of
| time for millions of people.
| mertd wrote:
| Note that it was around all time low just six months ago. The
| chart seems very volatile. I don't know if it is a bad survey
| or if people are fickle.
| gardnr wrote:
| "The percentage of Americans who evaluate their lives well enough
| to be considered "thriving" on Gallup's Live Evaluation Index
| reached 59.2% in June..."
|
| And "homeownership rate of 65.6 percent"[1]. Everybody else is
| fucked.
|
| 1. https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/currenthvspress.pdf
| dominotw wrote:
| > based on 4,820 U.S. adults surveyed by web
|
| This is a bit much to call it " American's life ratings" based on
| 0.0013% of American population who we aren't even sure are
| americans.
| ZoomerCretin wrote:
| 4,820 is a large enough sample size to be representative of the
| population within a few percentage points.
| anonAndOn wrote:
| It's not mentioned in the article because it just started, but I
| suspect we will achieve new highs with the Child Tax Credit.[0]
| It will likely have a _massive_ impact.
|
| [0]https://www.whitehouse.gov/child-tax-credit/
| codingdave wrote:
| The Child Tax Credit has been around since 1997. The timing
| changed this year, but the credit itself is not at all new.
| ZoomerCretin wrote:
| In its current form of being deposited monthly into people's
| accounts? No, it's very new.
| anonAndOn wrote:
| Except it's been massively increased and now comes with
| monthly cash disbursements sent via direct deposit whether
| you filed your taxes or not (eg, those who are too poor to
| need to file taxes and never got any tax "credit").
| lkrubner wrote:
| Actions speak louder than words, and so drug overdoses must speak
| louder than a poll. Even before the pandemic, life expectancy in
| the USA was stagnant or falling because of the upsurge in "deaths
| of despair". This is pre covid:
|
| https://www.newsweek.com/what-so-called-deaths-despair-exper...
|
| A poll has limited value and people are famously bad at self-
| reported happiness. There have simply been too many cases of
| people saying they are happy with their lives and two years later
| they commit suicide, or kill their spouse. Some researchers have
| argued that self reported happiness is worthless.
|
| Instead, look at actions. After the collapse of Communism and the
| breakup of the Soviet Union men over the age of 40 engaged in one
| of history's greatest alcoholic binges, such that life expectancy
| in Russia dropped for men during the 1990s. Actions speak loudly.
| Killing oneself with alcohol communicates how one really feels
| about the future.
|
| We've seen something similar in the USA since the crash of 2008.
|
| Until such time as we see real evidence of people acting in the
| way that we might expect happy people to behave, including
| planning for the future and taking care of one's health, don't
| believe a poll that says Americans are happy.
|
| But still, in 1945, on VE day or VJ day, if you asked Americans
| "Are you happy?" obviously everyone would have said "Yes". This
| is well known. But what they were feeling was relief.
|
| The same is true now. People feel relief, thinking the pandemic
| might be coming under control. Such relief is fickle. It could be
| different next month. It does not signal long term happiness.
| lkrubner wrote:
| Why was this downvoted? Does anyone disagree with the basic
| idea here? People's actions are more meaningful than what they
| say to a pollster. This should be obvious.
| staticman2 wrote:
| There are entire fields of medicine, including psychiatry and
| psychology, that believe surveying people on how depressed,
| anxious, etc. they feel is the scientific basis of research,
| diagnosis, and treatment.
|
| Your idea to just ignore what people say is just totally out
| there...
| lkrubner wrote:
| I think you might be uneducated on this issue. For
| starters, read the Wikipedia page on this subject:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study
| lkrubner wrote:
| Likewise, the literature that argues that these self-
| reports are worthless is also quite extensive:
|
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-015-9710-0
|
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cant-buy-
| happiness/2...
|
| Just spend 15 minutes researching the literature that
| argues against the value of self-reported happiness.
|
| This has been discussed on Hacker News many times.
| goodpoint wrote:
| On the contrary, psychiatry and psychology measured very
| well how much people lie to themselves (in good faith) when
| answering questions.
|
| That's why good psychological assessments have long lists
| of questions, poking at the same aspects from many
| different angles.
| goodpoint wrote:
| > people are famously bad at self-reported happiness
|
| ...especially in cultures where describing yourself as unhappy
| is seen as a personal failure.
|
| Or expressing worries about climate change / soil depletion /
| ocean depletion / plastic pollution / deforestation is shunned
| as "being negative".
|
| The amount of downvotes only proves the point.
| lkrubner wrote:
| Exactly. And even though this issue is sometimes discussed on
| Hacker News, I suspect that the people who are down voting me
| don't know anything about this issue. For them, as a basic
| primer, I'd point them to the Wikipedia page:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Not only is life satisfaction high, optimism about the future is
| also very high:
|
| > Notably, even as current life satisfaction has increased in
| recent months, anticipated life satisfaction remains elevated
| compared with pre-COVID levels.
|
| These results are striking in contrast to the increasingly
| cynical outlooks we see on sites like Reddit and even HN. It
| seems like every comment section is full of negative comments
| about how terrible everything is or how terrible it's going to be
| soon. Results like this are a good reminder to log off and go
| interact with the real world for a more grounded perpsective.
| mercy_dude wrote:
| I find these polls are biased and not represent equally well
| the entire spectrum of population. I am from Greenboro, WI and
| I can tell you it's the opposite among the population in the
| areas I grew up. Most young people like me who had more than a
| high school degree have moved away and ones that are left there
| are either in some kind of struggling business or are plain
| into dark places dealing with addictions (alcohol and opioid).
| Even people like me who did move to the cities, I don't see how
| the optimism can be so high. I mean I work in tech and have
| pretty much accepted that I am forever priced out of the
| housing market I am in. The school district system of where I
| live also doesn't look very promising so my kids will have a
| better education (and future). Starting a family with a single
| income in Bay Area, meeting ends meet is hard even with a tech
| job.
|
| Like every other news these days, I take these polls with a
| grain of salt.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > I find these polls are biased and not represent equally
| well the entire spectrum of population.
|
| It's easy to confuse our own personal bubbles with the
| general population. There's nothing inconsistent about you
| living in an area with low life satisfaction and a poll that
| says 60% of people across the entire country have high life
| satisfaction.
|
| The way you describe your home town sounds depressing and
| it's easy to believe that they wouldn't be part of the 60% of
| Americans rating themselves as thriving in this poll.
| However, what you're describing is very far from the norm for
| towns in America. Occurs too often, yes, but it's not what
| life in the average American city looks like.
|
| > Starting a family with a single income in Bay Area, meeting
| ends meet is hard even with a tech job.
|
| The entire Bay Area represents around 2% of the US
| population. It's not expected that a national poll would
| reflect the realities of a single geographic region.
|
| That said, I have several friends and extended families
| starting families in the Bay Area who are very happy with
| their circumstances.
|
| > Like every other news these days, I take these polls with a
| grain of salt.
|
| The poll said 60% of Americans see themselves as "thriving".
| That doesn't meant that no one is struggling. It's important
| to look at these polls as ways to get a glimpse of life
| outside of our own bubbles. It's also important to view them
| as a distribution rather than a binary outcome.
| xeromal wrote:
| Love this take!
| rayiner wrote:
| Meanwhile I'm an older millennial with kids and live in a
| suburban community with lots of kids. Most people seem pretty
| happy. People in Iowa, where my wife went to high school, and
| Oregon, where she grew up, seem pretty happy too.
|
| Rust Belt decay is obviously less conducive to happiness, but
| I think "boom towns" (where a marquee industry makes a small
| percentage of the population very rich) also aren't
| conductive to happiness. Might explain why the politics out
| of place as like San Francisco is so apocalyptic. People want
| to have a normal life but the economy of the city has
| bifurcated the population into "rich but stressed out" and
| "struggling to get by."
|
| To be fair I get the sentiment. DC was the same way. In DC it
| was childless wealthy professionals on one side (mostly white
| and Asian) and service workers on the other (mostly Black and
| Latino). It was depressing as hell and we had to get out.
| Retric wrote:
| Population isn't evenly distributed. Iowa has a little over
| 1/3 or NYC's population even excluding everything over the
| Hudson. Your "boom towns" represent a large chunk of
| everyone in the US.
| rayiner wrote:
| There's only a handful of cities that I'd call "boom
| towns" (in that a singular industry creates intense
| income inequality). Dallas is booming, but it's got a
| well-diversified economy with prosperous but affordable
| suburbs. Same thing for Atlanta, Kansas City, etc.
|
| Lots of rural areas and small cities have broadly shared
| prosperity too. I was very surprised when I went to East
| Texas and saw the brand new strip malls and shiny pickup
| trucks everywhere. (Along with a very racially diverse
| and integrated population driving those trucks and eating
| at the new big box restaurants. I was completely
| unsurprised to see Trump doing better than expected among
| Latinos in Texas.)
|
| NYC, DC, and SF are probably the only cities I'd put in
| that category. Maybe Seattle. That's only 12% of the
| population.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Those shiny pickup trucks are short term before the repo
| man shows up.
| cjaybo wrote:
| You seem to be conflating "boom town" and "large city".
| NYC is not a boom town.
| Retric wrote:
| Why not? It seems like finance fills the "marquee
| industry makes a small percentage of the population very
| rich" for NYC.
| sidibe wrote:
| And many other industries make other small percentages of
| the population rich. It's not a one industry town like
| many places in the rust belt were and Silicon Valley
| currently is
| [deleted]
| pfortuny wrote:
| It may seem counterintuitive but 60% is not so much for this
| to be noticed "everywhere". Even less when your own area is
| not much populated.
| spicybright wrote:
| Nothing stopping the elites from pumping out fake polls to
| keep us distracted from how bad things are getting.
| goatlover wrote:
| Do you have evidence the poll is faked, or does it just go
| against your confirmation bias?
| tag2103 wrote:
| A new flavor of bread and circuses with added "appeal to
| authority" goodness.
| lumost wrote:
| Wages on the low-end are starting to rise for the first time
| in decades. Employers are having to compete for every kind of
| worker which is making them nicer and more agreeable.
|
| When people see an upward trendline in their lives and can
| imagine it continuing they're more apt to lean in push
| harder. I'd imagine that even in the bay area, wages are
| probably rising fast for your typical worker and rents have
| tapered off due to the pandemic.
|
| While in many cases we built a society where having a family
| is financially impractical to impossible - it's not hard to
| imagine that changing with a 20-30 dollar/hr 10th percentile
| wage ( which we get to in under ~5-10 years if the bottom
| quintile sees a 10% annual bump ).
| [deleted]
| hdivider wrote:
| "These results are striking in contrast to the increasingly
| cynical outlooks we see on sites like Reddit and even HN. It
| seems like every comment section is full of negative comments
| about how terrible everything is or how terrible it's going to
| be soon. Results like this are a good reminder to log off and
| go interact with the real world for a more grounded
| perpsective."
|
| Agreed, 100%. It's amazing how HN, Reddit and other places
| select so strongly for the pessimism of the intellect, but
| quickly shoot down the optimism of the will. Without the latter
| (informed by the former, sure), civilization would never have
| advanced this far.
|
| Sure, we need realism. And knowledge of what will go wrong. But
| find the positive -- otherwise, it's more like a withdrawal of
| people's energy.
|
| Thankfully, like you mentioned, the real world, away from these
| artificial rectangles, is often way more empowering. :)
| refurb wrote:
| Social media reflects a small slice of the population (like
| <1%) and it seems to overwhelmingly attract negativity. I would
| even argue it's a bit of an outlet for people who aren't that
| negative in their everyday life.
| blippage wrote:
| "Is the world getting better or worse? A look at the numbers |
| Steven Pinker" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ
|
| tl;dr: it's getting better. We're living longer, homicides are
| down, fewer wars and autocracies, etc..
| systemvoltage wrote:
| This entire thread is a proof of how many people on HN
| constantly downvote anything that is not rage-worthy.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| It seems to be human nature that people are more happy to talk
| about misfortune than about lucky events. 60% are thriving. But
| the 40% that are not probably have a much stronger opinion
| about things. So you'll hear the loud "minority".
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Nobody is going to go on an Internet forum to proclaim how
| great their life is.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Most of my Facebook and Instagram is full of other people
| sharing good things about their lives. I know the cynical
| internet commenters will insist it's all fake and that
| they're only putting on a show, but the reality is that most
| people in my circles are doing quite well and are generally
| happy.
|
| I'm also part of several online communities and even forums
| where most people are doing well.
|
| There's nothing about the internet that requires people to
| bias toward being negative and cynical. The cynicism does
| tend to collect in certain internet bubbles and especially
| certain cites that cater to outrage-as-entertainment (e.g.
| front page of Reddit)
| [deleted]
| adventured wrote:
| Job openings are at ~9.2 million in the US and there has
| been a persistently healthy wage increase over the past
| five or six years for the bottom half of the laborforce due
| to the labor demand vs labor supply imbalance. It all goes
| a long ways toward bolstering optimism for the mass public.
|
| If the US ever gets around to properly improving its
| healthcare mess, these ratings would soar.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Facebook and Instagram are primarily about showing. They
| are less discussion forums.
|
| I post some positive life news on Facebook. I would never
| go around HN posting similar news.
| detaro wrote:
| People do show (on-topic) things they are proud of on HN,
| people regularly share their own stories, and not just
| bad ones, in reaction to submissions. Not really _life
| news_ , no, but still positive content.
| criddell wrote:
| That's an interesting point. I wonder why you can't talk
| about how happy you are but you can talk about how unhappy
| you are?
|
| Does it sound boastful or insensitive? Is it uninteresting to
| hear?
| thrav wrote:
| Feels boastful and insensitive in the current climate ---
| I'm guilty of worrying that it can make people in my circle
| who aren't doing so well feel worse.
|
| Maybe that's patronizing and not giving other individuals
| enough credit. Thinking on my own past depression, I don't
| recall that I felt worse because of comparison to others
| --- I think the bigger problem was more to do with my own
| lack of direction, displeasure with myself, and feeling
| trapped.
|
| Seeing others take alternative paths and reach happiness
| might've actually been helpful for overcoming some of my
| self-constructed obstacles.
|
| It's become more about not wanting to feed the ad monster
| and give my circle more reasons to be in those apps these
| days. Apple photo stream is where we share instead.
| mbfg wrote:
| Well, let's face facts. The population on Hacker News is
| going to be much higher than that 59% in happiness. The
| population has basically hit the lottery from a socio-
| economic point of view, and things will always be rosy for
| this group as a whole.
| lrdswrk00 wrote:
| Looking at raw numbers if always much more telling than cherry
| picked stats intended to sell an emotional narrative.
|
| 50-60% of 300 million+ people "thriving" means what for their
| other 40-50% of 300 million?
|
| Comments like yours lead me to the same conclusion. I'd suggest
| people interact outside their usual filter bubble specifically,
| online or real.
| missedthecue wrote:
| I guess happy optimistic people have better things to do than
| spend their day commenting on Reddit. Bit of selection bias
| maybe.
| im_down_w_otp wrote:
| That will undoubtedly have the opposite of the intended effect
| for me.
|
| Real world interaction is where I get to learn that wild fires
| are supposedly being caused by migrant workers, where I get
| yelled at for wearing a mask during a pandemic, have my kids
| teased for the same, discover that people I used to think were
| reasonable adults are actually anti-vaxxers, and interact with
| depressingly _insane_ inflated residential & commercial real
| estate markets.
|
| My online interactions are probably principally responsible for
| maintaining the threads of idealism that are hanging on.
|
| That said, I also spend zero time on Facebook, Instagram, etc.,
| and near zero time on Twitter. So, neither my real world nor
| online world interactions are necessarily representative of
| much.
| [deleted]
| anonfornoreason wrote:
| Ahh yes sounds like a pile of good reasons to hide in not
| real life, enjoy!
| l33t2328 wrote:
| In the real world I've never heard anything resublime those
| claims, or been yelled at for wearing a mask.
| im_down_w_otp wrote:
| That's fortunate. Dalliances with the rural expanses of
| Washington, Oregon, and Idaho have not been so encouraging
| for me lately.
| eulers_secret wrote:
| I skimmed the article, but I think this disconnect may be due
| to demographics.
|
| Reddit skews very young, and I think things are harder for
| youth. The older generation has seen their housing values
| explode over the last decade, same with their retirement
| accounts. Many are "paper rich".
|
| Younger people aren't established, they see high housing prices
| and feel the "American dream" was stolen from them. They see
| the current market values, and think they "missed out" on the
| rise. After all, will we see another decade of this kind of
| prosperity? Could be a kind of FOMO.
|
| I do agree that stepping away from social media is important.
| Reddit has a lot of folks with a victim mentality (victims of
| "the system" - represented by capitalism), and that idea is
| easy to cultivate in oneself. It has a kernel of truth, but I
| think people ruminate and it doesn't do any good.
| padastra wrote:
| Reddit and HN skews to the perennially online, who are
| composed of people that believe work should be easy,
| fulfilling, highly paid, and most of all: optional. They also
| think this is the natural state of nature and it's everyone
| else's fault that it is not so.
| minikites wrote:
| >natural state of nature
|
| What about modern life has anything to do with this
| mythical "natural" state? Why should people be left to die
| as if we were the same as gazelles?
| rayiner wrote:
| Reddit and Twitter skew young, urban, and educated. It seems
| like these people are the least happy, because they feel like
| they deserve more.
|
| My in laws out in smaller Oregon cities, who mostly didn't go
| to college or went to the local state school, seem pretty
| happy. One took on a lot of debt for college and is an
| unhappy progressive activist.
| watwut wrote:
| I don't buy this. I know plenty of unhappy rural people and
| unhappy uneducated people.
|
| And statistically, going by social issues they don't do
| well either.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| I disagree. City life is full of stress. Want to go to a
| nursery to pick up some plants in Oakland, CA? It will
| take ya 2.5 hours, not to mention finding parking on the
| street and then dealing with 'asshole' customer service -
| there is no incentive to improve because hey they have a
| lot of people buying plants and if you don't like it, go
| somewhere else.
|
| This is just a small slice of what's wrong with city life
| from today's errands I had to run. Traffic, population
| density, constant fear of crime and someone breaking into
| your car, everything just takes longer and the noise
| itself takes the joy out of life.
|
| My parents live in rural California and it is the most
| beautiful, impossibly gorgeous place with a sense of
| tranquility in the air. Life moves slowly and at a nice
| pace. _Everyone_ is nice to one another. And this isn 't
| some rich neighborhood.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| What is the standard error on these measurements? And what is
| the variance, that is does the mean satisfaction represent the
| majority or are there, say, two populations, one very
| optimistic and the other less so.
|
| Perhaps that could explain the outlook seen on HN, etc.
| mancerayder wrote:
| I don't know if HN folks, on average, are grumpy and negative
| and mean. They might get feisty in a particular debate and
| there are a lot of sky-is-falling type articles.
|
| However, I find Reddit straight-up mean. I rarely participate,
| and if I do, it's more around specific hobbies, real estate and
| stock type forums. From the mods all the way down, there's a
| certain take-ya-down-with-one-liners personality type that
| seems to just predominate. Similar to Twitter. I'm sure there
| are good subs, but I'm really curious what it is about Reddit
| that leads to toxicity on seemingly neutral topics. I always
| thought it was the young age, but honestly a lot of these
| people are adults and not teens (teens don't frequent real
| estate investment subs).
| ekster wrote:
| I have noticed on social media that the cynical, assholes,
| grumpy, and those that want to take others down a peg are quite
| loud but in the minority. Typically when you run into one they
| have a comment history where they are just being a jerk all day
| every day to all comers. Normal people have good or bad days
| and it might come out in different ways on different days, but
| there is a surprising number of people out there just being
| hateful on the internet all day like it's their job.
|
| And the vast majority of them have statues of philosophers as
| their avatars, which I still don't quite get.
| ssss11 wrote:
| Specifically on reddit and twitter, the few times I've used
| them, they seem to be filled with assholes.
|
| It seems that these people have no release for their views in
| the real world and for some reason these social sites are
| suitable places (from their perspective)
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Here's the thing I try to remember: when life isn't going
| well for a person, it's easy to turn to the Internet to vent
| frustration. And the less one has going on in the rest of
| their life, the more time one has to spend arguing online.
| The volume of posting doesn't indicate how right someone is
| or how reflective their experiences are of reality, just how
| much time they have to dedicate to the task of commenting.
|
| As a useful mental trick, I substitute "commenters" with
| "bored people on the internet" sometimes to remind myself of
| the source.
| mancerayder wrote:
| > Here's the thing I try to remember: when life isn't going
| well for a person, it's easy to turn to the Internet to
| vent frustration
|
| Yes. It's right there (it takes three seconds to pull a
| phone out of a pocket), and it's instantly a way to talk to
| people. Sometimes there's no one else there.
|
| Also, in American culture you're not supposed to be
| negative in social situations. Always positive, always
| chirpy. Maybe _that_ is why it 's so toxic online. Because
| similar to the Victorian age and sexual repression, the
| always-positive leads to a toxic sublimation into Internet
| anonymity? I'm just tossing this out there as a thought. A
| counter would be, the entire world is toxic online.
| noobermin wrote:
| They should show the results broken down by age. I think you'll
| see the vast majority of happy respondents being baby boomers.
| baybal2 wrote:
| > These results are striking in contrast to the increasingly
| cynical outlooks we see on sites like Reddit and even HN. It
| seems like every comment section is full of negative comments
| about how terrible everything is or how terrible it's going to
| be soon. Results like this are a good reminder to log off and
| go interact with the real world for a more grounded
| perpsective.
|
| A very simple explanation is rising salaries for manual labour,
| and unprecedented stimulus cheques.
| eps wrote:
| It's very much debatable which perspective is "more grounded."
|
| Especially when one of them is based on ignoring an
| unprecendented economic bubble and hoping for the best. No
| reasonable person in rudimentary touch with reality can have
| elevated "anticipated life satisfaction" in this context.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > No reasonable person in rudimentary touch with reality can
| have elevated "anticipated life satisfaction" in this
| context.
|
| This is a perfect example of the internet cynicism I was
| referring to. There's a general vibe on sites like Reddit and
| HN that the average people are _wrong_ and they shouldn 't be
| _happy_ because everything is actually _terrible_ and they
| just haven 't figured it out yet.
|
| Can we stop acting like these people are wrong or stupid and
| just accept that maybe people really are doing well?
| humbleMouse wrote:
| Are we going to have any arctic ice left? That's the type
| of question that keeps me from being too jovial.
| meowkit wrote:
| > Can we stop acting like these people are wrong or stupid
|
| This is really hard to do given my conversations with most
| people in real life.
|
| There is a shocking obliviousness to climate change,
| plastic pollution, economic problems, healthcare (personal
| and the system), philosophical/existential inquiries, etc.
| Not to say people don't know climate change is happening -
| they just aren't aware of any details beyond surface level
| memes.
|
| Ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes.
|
| But also a reminder that frustration and outrage drive
| content algorithms, so its no surprise that kind of content
| dominates the text based social media.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| To be honest, I think there might be a point where if
| you're _too_ plugged in to environmental social media,
| you end up opposing fairly practical approaches to
| solving it because increasingly-niche concerns. The "good
| is the enemy of the better" effect.
|
| Normie: "Oh cool, electric cars are improving that means
| less pollution and i spend less on gas!"
|
| Too-online environmental person: "But ACKSHUALLY,
| electric cars are terrible because theoretically lithium
| might have some environmental impact and we need to ban
| all cars if we REALLY care about the environment, so
| electric cars are bad because they're stopping us from
| banning all cars."
|
| Normie: "Solar power is good; I heard a little bit about
| climate change, so I'm glad some people are working to
| reduce our dependence on fossil fuels."
|
| Left Caucus of Nevada: " Arevia Power withdrew their
| application for the Battle Born Solar project. Congrats
| to @saveourmesa and the other activists who put in the
| work to keep the community healthy, safe, and whole"
|
| https://twitter.com/LeftCaucus/status/1418403704047243264
| ?s=...
| goodpoint wrote:
| Your example proves the opposite. The person you accused
| of being "too plugged" correctly points out the
| ineffectiveness of electric cars.
| Zababa wrote:
| > climate change, plastic pollution, economic problems,
| healthcare (personal and the system),
| philosophical/existential inquiries, etc
|
| If you're not doing actively something about it, what's
| the point of keeping this in mind if it only makes you
| sad? It seems like some people like having a moral high
| ground by being sad at important issues, but I don't
| really see the point. Either do something, or don't do
| anything.
| iamstupidsimple wrote:
| Long ago, my dad checked out of news media entirely, and
| the effect on his mental health was incredible.
| Personally, I don't think I can turn a blind eye to the
| rest of the world, but IME those that do are generally
| much happier.
| heckingoodtimes wrote:
| What do they say again?
|
| > Ignorance is bliss.
|
| I didn't grasp this when my HS English teacher imparted
| this on us, but having consumed much of the trending
| Reddit content, it makes a lot more sense these days.
| nitrogen wrote:
| When we all first hear this expression we assume that
| ignorance is a bad thing, thus we should not be like all
| the blissfully ignorant. But maybe it was really advice
| -- don't expand your circle of awareness too far beyond
| your circle of influence.
| somehnacct3757 wrote:
| You can both acknowledge economic bubbles and have life
| satisfaction. It's as simple as not tying your own happiness
| onto gargantuan systems well outside your individual control.
|
| I bristle when others captured by internet outrage loops
| suggest that I too must share their outrage or I'm
| unreasonable, out of touch, etc. Did you recognize that you
| have become a recruiter for social media algorithms?
| nemo44x wrote:
| I estimate around 20%-30% of the country has a mental
| health issue ranging from depression to narcissism to
| outright sociopathy and misanthropy. And they occupy a
| disproportionate amount of social media, etc congregating
| and spreading their sad world views everywhere.
|
| I think it's difficult for people with these types of
| issues to cope with problems that are out of range for any
| one person to fix, for coming to terms with change, and to
| fixate on these things. Just bring in a constant panic
| state while everything seems so out of control.
|
| It's sad because it's just a very bad way to spend a life
| when there's so much good and beautiful everywhere.
|
| The internet was great before everyone got in the pool and
| 30% of them started pissing in it.
| tayo42 wrote:
| I think your mixing up two different questions. This article
| is asking is your personal life good. Im generally happy with
| my own life and think it'll get better, that doesn't mean I
| think the world is on a good path. I think I can live a
| decent life independent of whatever is going on in the world
| at large.
|
| Like even if there is an economic bubble what does that
| really mean for you? Is your long term personal life
| satisfaction really tied to the economy? Maybe you'll have a
| bad year like 2008 did to some but you'll probably bounce
| back
| beerandt wrote:
| >I think your mixing up two different questions.
|
| That's what the pollster and reporter want you to do.
|
| This has become an extremely common method of polling
| manipulation, and I can't believe more people don't see
| right through it.
| l33t2328 wrote:
| Why is it a bubble?
| username90 wrote:
| This study is from June, USA still paid a lot of stimulus
| money in June. Being happy from stimulus money is a bubble,
| it wont last.
| paulddraper wrote:
| This is relief. I believe humanity's condition is getting
| better and better.
|
| But I am surprised most others think so too.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Is it possible reddit is mostly bots at this point?
| utdoctor wrote:
| Is that even up to disagreement? The main subs certainly are
| hereforphone wrote:
| To be fair many of the bots (those with a conservative world
| outlook) were banned years ago.
| watwut wrote:
| Reddit has plenty of conservatives.
|
| And crackdowns did closed lefty abusive subs too.
| spicybright wrote:
| Bots that they know of.
| rejectedandsad wrote:
| Interest rates are lower and the unemployment rate is lower than
| when the "morning in America" ad aired.
| aflag wrote:
| I think people are hopeful that after the vaccine rollouts,
| things will be back to normal - and people are starting to do
| what they used to do before the pandemic. When you down it's easy
| to overshoot a little when you go back up.
| machinehermiter wrote:
| My personal life is wonderful.
|
| The country?
|
| This chart from the Fed is just astounding.
| https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD
| ZoomerCretin wrote:
| Contrary to what right-wing media claims (curiously, only
| during Democratic presidencies), deficit spending isn't
| actually bad.
| throwntoday wrote:
| I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but if covid was made in a
| lab this seems like the biggest grift of all time. I can't
| imagine how much of that money just disappeared.
| lkrubner wrote:
| That looks like unadjusted dollars? It's a crazy graph, as the
| biggest pre-pandemic event in USA fiscal history (World War II)
| is simply invisible on this graph. As a point of comparison USA
| debt hit 101% of GDP in 1946, a level we only rose above
| recently, because of the pandemic:
|
| https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S
| lkrubner wrote:
| Why was this downvoted? World War II was the largest fiscal
| event in USA history (before the pandemic) and it is
| invisible on this graph, therefore the graph has little
| explanatory power. Why would I be downvoted for pointing that
| out?
| serf wrote:
| >it is invisible on this graph
|
| I don't know why you got downvoted -- but there is a
| definitely a visible artifact on that chart between 1939
| and 1946, it's just not all that huge compared to modern
| deficit spending.
| lkrubner wrote:
| Right, but it should be huge, it was only significantly
| surpassed by the pandemic in 2020, which is a clue that
| these are unadjusted dollars, and so the graph lacks any
| explanatory power.
| fny wrote:
| You shouldn't look at the debt alone. It's not inflation
| adjusted, and it doesn't account for the economy being far
| larger today than it was in the 1920s.
|
| Debt to GDP is a better measure. We basically matched WWII on
| that metric, but the congressional budget office projects we'll
| exceed that going forward.
|
| [0]: https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/images/full-
| reports/... [1]: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57038
| CalChris wrote:
| A lot of this optimism is just not having Trump drive the news
| cycle everyday.
| FooBarBizBazz wrote:
| Make News Boring Again
| matmatmatmat wrote:
| Don't know why you're getting downvoted, I think you're right.
| Whether deserved or not, the news cycle 2016-2020 was one
| conflagration after another, sometimes with not even a day
| between them to absorb things.
| steve76 wrote:
| If liberals win, then you are allowed to be happy. If
| liberals loose, prepare for your city to burn and disease
| from their marxist friends.
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(page generated 2021-07-25 23:01 UTC)