[HN Gopher] My Fanless OpenBSD Desktop
___________________________________________________________________
My Fanless OpenBSD Desktop
Author : rodrigo975
Score : 225 points
Date : 2021-07-25 08:38 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jcs.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (jcs.org)
| layer8 wrote:
| For a passively cooled Ryzen APU system, I can recommend the
| Cirrus7 Incus: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/
| ghostly_s wrote:
| Don't really understand the convoluted USB-C setup. If you're
| using onboard graphics anyway, can't you get a mobo with onboard
| USB-C that will route that DP signal without the workaround?
| lxe wrote:
| Nice soldering iron!
| noisem4ker wrote:
| That monitor position, simulating the placement on a laptop, goes
| against any basic ergonomy guidelines.
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| Is there any desktop machine I could buy off the shelf, in 2021,
| and OpenBSD would just work on it?
| ussrlongbow wrote:
| As desktop or server?
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Silent and low power are my important parameters. I've had good
| experience will Dell Optiplex for these two requirements.
| CorralPeltzer wrote:
| If you're into fully fanless PCs and don't mind paying a premium,
| Monster Labo are the only ones to my knowledge selling cases
| capable of dissipating the 300W+ that a full gaming desktop will
| generate: https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop
| christophilus wrote:
| Those look really attractive, too. I was expecting the typical,
| garish gaming rig.
| mastax wrote:
| There are motherboards like the _AsRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX
| /TB3_ that support DP-out through the onboard usb-c. Either using
| a DP-in port with a discrete GPU, or through an integrated GPU.
| Always check the manual to ensure it works like you expect.
|
| The new Ryzen 5700G is getting retail availability soon, though
| its hard to say to wait for it - especially with availability as
| it is.
|
| I would certainly recommend a second stick of ram to run in dual
| channel mode which doubles the memory bandwidth. This is
| especially important for the onboard GPU but other CPU workloads
| as well.
| toast0 wrote:
| The 5700G is undoubtably better than the 4750G (unless you care
| about the pro features, I guess), but I don't think it's that
| big of a difference. CPU is one generation better, and GPU is
| about the same.
|
| I don't know what the grey market premium is on the 4750G these
| days though. I got my two 4650G processors last November, and
| it was only about $20 over suspected MSRP to get them on
| Aliexpress, but 4750G at that point had fewer vendors and a lot
| bigger premium. At that time, US based marketplaces bumped the
| price by another $50+, so I took my chances with Aliexpress (I
| had to order my chosen SFF heatsinks there anyway, so I had a
| test run with a lower cost item) and everything worked out
| fine.
| indigodaddy wrote:
| Very nice article. I was also impressed by his stunningly
| beautiful site/blog design. A joy to read and look at on mobile.
| bxparks wrote:
| This article made a passing reference to the lack of S3 Sleep on
| some laptops, so I did some googling to learn that there is
| something called "Modern Standby". I'm not sure I like the idea
| of my laptop randomly connecting to the internet and doing
| background work, after I explicitly told it to sleep.
| minedwiz wrote:
| My work issued laptop is a Lenovo with modern sleep. Basically
| just means the thing never really sleeps, fans keep going.
|
| It used to be you could trick windows (sadly a work necessity)
| into using real S3 sleep via UEFI setting, but they broke it in
| 20-04.
| [deleted]
| josephd79 wrote:
| What keyboard is that? Ps love the susuwatari keys
| forbiddenlake wrote:
| Excerpt from the article:
|
| I'm not big into mechanical keyboards (aside from the one on my
| Dolch PAC 64) but after seeing LGR's video about the Glorious
| GMMK Pro 75% keyboard, I decided to go with that one for my
| desktop.
| dexterhaslem wrote:
| 48 Hz ouch, i weep for the eyes.
| ginko wrote:
| I recently went fanless by getting a Ryzen 7 mini pc (ASUS PN-50)
| and installing the mainboard in a fanless aftermarket case[0].
| Works great. The CPU idles around 45C which is actually quite a
| bit cooler than with the original air cooled ASUS case.
|
| [0]
| https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.deta...
| pdenton wrote:
| The main reason I tend to stick with GNU+Linux is because of its
| excellent support for hardware accelerated opengl. The article
| doesn't tell how the performance is under openbsd. I can play 3d
| games and have multiple live streams of the olympics running
| simultaneously, without a hitch.
|
| On a router, openbsd is perfect. It has a great firewall and
| everything is thoroughly documented. Configuration is simple
| enough and it just works really well.
|
| Good read though.
| alekq wrote:
| Author is OpenBSD developer.
| anthk wrote:
| OpenBSD uses MESA. I finished Silent Hill:Shattered Memories
| just fine under a Celeron+Intel Mobile 4 Series laptop.
|
| -currrent uses MESA 21.1.5.
| notaplumber wrote:
| Likely because the author doesn't care about that and are
| productivity focused. Besides, OpenBSD uses the same drivers as
| Linux, ported to the OpenBSD kernel.
|
| https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4e...
| speedgoose wrote:
| The case looks great!
|
| I personally enjoy the current trend of putting RGB leds on
| everything, including internal components. It will probably not
| age well, but I think it's fun and some funky lighting can
| improve a lot the appearance of a dull looking computer. But with
| such a beautiful case, there is no need for RGB lights.
|
| 48Hz seems a bit too low. I think high refresh rates improve the
| user experience even outside gaming. Scrolling code at 144Hz or
| more feels much nicer than 60Hz, it's easy to notice when you
| switch between computers. But that may generate a bit too much
| heat for someone who doesn't want any noise.
| [deleted]
| diarrhea wrote:
| Agree on the high refresh rate point. I used to have a 1080p
| 144 Hz monitor and it transformed online gaming, but was also
| noticeable on the desktop.
|
| However, I then went 32" 4k and can never go back. 4k is simply
| amazing, and today you still _have_ to choose: either high Hz
| or high resolution. You can 't (reasonably) have both, and I
| choose 4k! Looking forward to the day 4k 144Hz becomes
| reasonable.
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| Ehh maybe true like four years ago. I've had a 4K 120Hz 10bit
| 4:4:4 panel since 2014 for under $1K, and TVs that do 4K
| 120Hz are cheap today (like 55" for $350).
|
| My display also does 1080_240 and 720_540, which is just
| silly.
| noisem4ker wrote:
| Such high values found on TVs are typically a product of
| motion interpolation and backlight strobing. They may not
| be considered "true" refresh rates and be just taken at
| face value.
| LeSaucy wrote:
| If the larger size of 48" isn't a deal breaker, the LG CX/C1
| make amazing desktop displays- 4K120 + OLED response times.
| jbjbjbjb wrote:
| The 48hz would ruin the whole build for me. Is that likely to
| be an Openbsd issue?
| seaghost wrote:
| This looks to me very masochistic, so much pain to setup simple
| stuff like screen resolution, refresh rate, issues installing
| operating system.
| opan wrote:
| It didn't seem like any of that was the fault of OpenBSD to me.
| The monitor may have just been a bad choice. Especially when he
| had to get that additional expansion card to use it, and still
| had issues. I hope he finds a way to get back to 60hz someday.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| I would be concerned about ditching the X570 chipset fan (with no
| cooling replacement?). They didn't add the fan for fun. B550
| boards are available fanless and have most of the same features.
| toast0 wrote:
| From reading lots of reviews and what not, the chipset fan on
| the X570 is really only needed when doing a lot of PCI-e 4.0
| stuff; the CPU in question doesn't support 4.0, so it really
| shouldn't be an issue to disable the fan. Although buying a
| less capable board is probably a better answer; personally, I
| built my SFF system on an A520 board, the only down side is
| very little overclocking/underclocking/voltage tuning support.
| There is _some_ support for tuning, but you can 't use the best
| utilities, and so I'm just running at stock which works well
| for me, but a small undervolt might give similar performance
| with a little less heat.
| fallenspec wrote:
| > The stupid RGB LEDs can be disabled in the BIOS/firmware menu
| by setting "AURA" to "Stealth Mode", and I unplugged the two 1"
| fans on the I/O board to keep everything silent. I also had to
| set the "CPU Fan Speed" in the "Monitor" section to "Ignore", or
| else it would indicate a fan error at every boot since I had none
| plugged in.
|
| I can't tell looking at the motherboard he linked whether it has
| a fan there and which 1 inch fan he is talking about.
|
| However I have a ATX board that is very similar and the little
| fan is there to cool the northbridge and it *should* be running.
| Northbridge's on these chipsets get very hot from what I
| understand.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| An X570 board is indeed not a good choice for a build like
| this, because the I/O options offered by the chipset are not
| actually used. This particular one seems to have one fan for
| the VRMs, which is likely not needed in his use, while the NB
| will actually need that fan (with the stock cooler, if you
| replace the usually not very good OEM designs you can cool X570
| passively).
|
| A B450 or B550 board would have been a better idea and much
| cheaper to boot. It would also significantly reduce power
| usage, as just the X570 chipset alone needs something like 8-9
| W (at idle) more than the B450 chipset.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| Thanks for pointing that out - I've been nosing around as I
| consider what I want to build next, and I hadn't realized the
| X570s tend to need chipset fans. That's a deal-killer for me.
| Either it's going to be noisy as all get-out, or it's going
| to be some cheap part that fails prematurely, assuming it
| isn't both. I definitely prefer big and slow for fans.
| floatboth wrote:
| The new crop of X570 boards, labeled X570S or something, do
| not have a chipset fan. (Also on the original ones, the
| fans might've had full silent modes where they only spin up
| when pushing big PCIe bandwidth over the chipset?)
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| There's a few like the X570 Dark Hero which also don't
| have a chipset fan but don't use the X570S label.
| sliken wrote:
| Indeed, I bought a b550 board specifically because it doesn't
| require a chipset fan that's tiny, inefficient, and much
| better at making noise/vibration than it is at moving air.
| Then tend to be rather unreliable as well.
|
| There is a newer x570s motherboards out now, if you need the
| highest end boards and don't want the extra fan.
| elric wrote:
| I suspect he either put a big passive heatsink on it, or
| attached it to the case's heatsink.
| fallenspec wrote:
| Did some research on the case. Fairly in-depth review.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoRp3SI2UKM
|
| I suspect he won't run into the thermal issues experienced
| here unless he is doing something graphically intensive.
| barney54 wrote:
| I don't understand this part of the write up, " I've always
| chosen smaller (<= 14") laptop screens since I find too much
| horizontal space disorienting."
|
| I very much understand getting distracted with too much screen
| space, but I wonder what he means about getting disoriented?
|
| I like the minimalist setup, but for me this setup would be an
| ergonomic disaster with the monitor that low.
| adrian_b wrote:
| That part of the write up means that he is still young.
|
| The older you get, the more you appreciate larger monitors,
| which allow you to continue working without needing glasses and
| without visual fatigue.
| ttul wrote:
| This old fart agrees heartily. I bought an M1 iMac because I
| am an older fanboi (but a fanboi no less) and I really miss
| the old 27" 5K iMac display... I will probably ditch it for a
| larger iMac when that comes out.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I don't know why someone downvoted that. It has absolutely
| been my experience as I've aged. That, I also greatly
| appreciate having two monitors on my system.
| LeSaucy wrote:
| One of my favourite things in macOS is how well it handles
| scaling on 4k displays. I find windows / Linux unusable for
| any duration >15 minutes when I don't have glasses on.
| Things are either not scaled/tiny, or Fischer price large
| and layouts break everywhere.
| hhhcxxdd wrote:
| You can solve this problem really simply by just getting
| monitors that are actually large enough to use all the
| pixels and don't use scaling
|
| What's the point of 4K if you don't use all the pixels?
|
| Full disclosure my eyesight is terrible so maybe the rest
| of you can tell a difference between a high res screen
| that's scaled and a low res unscaled screen at the same
| apparent resolution.. but I can't
| aikinai wrote:
| Scaling doesn't waste the pixels; they just get used for
| smoother edges rather than smaller (more) content.
| leucineleprec0n wrote:
| Yeah seriously, I for one am gonna have to throw in my
| hat for scaling. Big pixel isn't paying me off, I can
| just tell an absurd discrepancy in the realism of (lol,
| cartoonish in reality) graphical menus and fonts. Granted
| you can go too far
| efdee wrote:
| This hasn't really been a problem on Windows for 99% of
| the applications for years now.
| Inhibit wrote:
| Linux either, afaik. Using a 7" 1080p tablet with a
| necessary 125% scale that seems to work fine.
| [deleted]
| satysin wrote:
| I am 37 so not _old_ but also not young :) For me I find the
| opposite. I prefer a high quality and high resolution but
| smaller monitor.
|
| By smaller I mean sub-30" which isn't small by any means but
| it is smaller than what I see many people use these days.
| Most people I know have 32" or larger monitors and that is
| just way too big for me. I currently use a 27" 4K monitor and
| even that I find a little too big but until I can find a 3:2
| or 16:10 ~25" monitor I am not bothered enough to replace it.
|
| Over the years I have realised I am most productive with a
| tiled window layout. Often side by side or in a 2x2 grid
| layout. I then make use of virtual desktops.
|
| I find too much "desktop real estate" frustrating and
| overwhelming. I get "lost" looking for what I want in a mess
| of windows so much prefer to have what I am working on side
| by side. Floating windows are only for short lived windows
| such as print or settings dialogs and not long term items on
| my desktop.
|
| I prefer to use integer scaling so 4K @ 2x gives me a lovely
| 1080p "look" which is fine (not perfect on a 27" but very
| close). Providing I can integer scale I will always buy the
| best monitor I can and run it scaled to give me this ~1080p
| UI control size. I just love how crisp text is on a HiDPI
| screen. Using my wifes 24" 1080p monitor from work is
| horrible to my eyes now. I guess I have officially been
| spoilt by high quality screens :)
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Wait until you're 50.
| slim wrote:
| With a small screen you just move your eyes, with a big screen
| you need to move your head. I guess it could be disorienting
| f6v wrote:
| I find 13 inch laptop screen to be the best. I can't understand
| all the people plugging 2 huge monitors to their laptop.
| egeozcan wrote:
| I have a wide screen. On one side, the app I'm working on
| reloads itself as I'm working on it, middle is the code,
| right is docs.
|
| On a second virtual desktop I have chat, email and todos.
|
| Works perfect for me.
| jeromenerf wrote:
| I believe the limited view and interactivity offered by our
| small 2D screens at have a profound impact on our industry
| deliverables.
|
| I like a small notebook but I also use a large translucent
| sheet for plans and sketches or a giant blackboard for
| collaboration.
| LeSaucy wrote:
| 2 monitors attached to my laptop let's me keep main teams
| window, active call window, obsidian/notes, and a full
| display for whatever I am working on/discussing/sharing all
| open simultaneously. Constantly alt-tabbing between a call
| window and notes is a chore.
| RedShift1 wrote:
| Personally I prefer 15.6" 1920x1080 for laptops. A lot of
| real estate and can keep it at 100% scaling.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Maybe 'set in his ways', because used to laptops of that size
| and pixel density, not wanting to change that. And clueless
| about ergonomics, because favouring the same way to look
| downward at the display which leads to hunchback, if you don't
| take care.
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| I don't get motion, sea, or VR sick, but if you put a 16:9 27"
| 144Hz TN panel in front of me, I'll start yawning and drooling
| in a matter of minutes. If I ignore that, I'll get too nauseous
| to work until I lay down for bit or take a long walk outside.
|
| The cause seems to be twofold. At a reasonable viewing
| distance, the strain caused by having to constantly focus my
| eyes differently between the corners and the center begins to
| give me a raging headache. This isn't true for <22" or >34"
| panels, though, so it's a function of my lens plasticity.
|
| The second factor is related to the panel technology. Scrolling
| on TN panels makes me feel the same as I do when I watch
| certain Hulu shows and poorly shot 3D films. Those incorporate
| subtle DOF that causes eye strain and discomfort on subjects in
| a scene your brain thinks you should be able to focus on (like
| trying to read the artistically blurred signage on a door in
| Avatar 3D). Resisting it makes me almost immediately sick to my
| stomach. With TN panels, knowing that I should be able to focus
| on the content as it scrolls yet just barely not being able to
| read it due to blur and poor panel characteristics (eg-
| backlight) is highly nauseating.
|
| I've used HFR displays with IPS/(M)VA panels for almost a
| decade with no issue. At work I use a 13" MBP, and at home I
| use a 39" 4K 120Hz VA panel. I'm actually stuck right now
| deciding between 13" models of MB Air and Chromebooks because I
| know deep down I really just want something with a 4:3 or 5:4
| display, which would either mean an iPad Pro or modded
| ThinkPad.
| fy20 wrote:
| > This isn't true for <22" or >34" panels, though, so it's a
| function of my lens plasticity.
|
| I understand smaller displays, but why isn't the issue
| present on bigger displays?
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| My guess would be that I place larger displays far enough
| away that my eyes aren't constantly refocusing.
|
| A better answer may be that I also benefit from displays
| below a certain proportion of my field of view. I try to
| work in open areas where I can relax my eyes periodically
| by looking out of windows, and being able to see around the
| screen is important for that.
| Havoc wrote:
| I love the casualness of this:
|
| >Since the LG UltraFine exposes a USB HID device to control its
| brightness, I wrote a driver to attach to it and expose the
| brightness adjustment through wsconsctl display.brightness.
|
| Worth noting that many of the NUC style minipcs have aftermarket
| fanless solutions available - google Akasa case for example.
|
| Apparently the ryzens take a sizable hit from single stick of mem
| but haven't tested it myself.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| At least I guess writing a control code for my dell 24 inches
| under mac is much difficult cf to *nix.
| floatboth wrote:
| Single _channel_ of RAM (you can put two sticks into one
| channel and leave the second one unused, which is really stupid
| but has been found on prebuilt desktops LOL) is always bad for
| performance, especially for onboard GPU.
| 0xcoffee wrote:
| This review didn't really convince me about the keyboard.
|
| 1. Boot into windows to configure it
|
| 2. Space bar sometimes sticks
|
| 3. Wrist pain because the key height
|
| 4. Led lights don't support dimming very well
|
| The keyboard costs $169.99!
|
| Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium), the
| desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and only
| a couple cm wider.
| vehemenz wrote:
| > Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium),
| the desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and
| only a couple cm wider.
|
| A large keyboard (TKL or larger) negatively impacts ergonomics.
| A standard keyboard has to be offset to the left to make room
| for the mouse on the right.
|
| If you center the letter keys so your shoulders and wrists are
| square, then your mouse is too far to reach comfortably.
|
| 65% keyboards are the ideal middle ground between ergonomics
| and productivity. You only lose the numpad and 1 or 2 keys from
| the nav cluster, and you get perfectly centered letter keys.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Yep, I favor 60% and 65% boards with a discrete numpad to the
| left for this reason. All the utility of a full size
| keyboard, but much more ergonomic, and as a bonus if I need
| some desk space I can set the numpad aside temporarily.
| zeusk wrote:
| I just tried building the keyboard and it actually costs ~$300
| including keycaps and switches.
|
| Base $169 is only for the base and MCU I suppose. Quite
| expensive. Just get a TKL cherry brown from any of the "gaming"
| brands and it'll serve you just as well. They usually run
| around ~$110 and include switches, keycaps and cable for the
| price.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| Custom keyboards are expensive. The benefit of the GMMK Pro
| is you can easily install new switches as it's hotswappable.
| This lets you have a lot more options for switches than most
| companies give you. I personally find MX Browns kinda meh.
| Freaky wrote:
| No, the benefit of the GMMK Pro is supposed to be build
| quality. There are plenty of cheap hot-swap boards about.
|
| I'm using a Hexgears K705A - it cost me PS60, with BOX
| White switches and cheap double-shot ABS keycaps. That's
| less than a bare non-pro GMMK. I replaced the keycaps with
| a pretty expensive set of sculpted PBT's and it still
| worked out less than a bare GMMK Pro.
|
| And my space bar doesn't stick :P
| goodpoint wrote:
| The mechanical keyboard crowd cares about looks and uniqueness
| over affordability and ergonomics.
|
| It's shocking how nobody makes ortholinear tilted keyboards in
| the price range of the typical keyboard (20 $/e).
| eertami wrote:
| In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you
| mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches.
| $170 is around average for something respectable.
|
| I've never understood penny pinching something like a keyboard,
| it's your interface to the computer and you use it every single
| working day. A 170$ mech keyboard from a good manufacturer will
| easily last more than 10 years.
|
| That said, I personally don't trust the reliability of
| Glorious.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| You can get 75% keyboards for much cheaper. Like you can easily
| get a mechanical one off Amazon for $50. With the Glorious GMMK
| Pro you are paying for the metal backplane, the ability to
| hotswap switches and in theory it should support QMK? Maybe?
| Depending on which chip it got. QMK would allow it to be
| configured outside Windows just with more effort.
| maxmalkav wrote:
| I do like custom mechanical keyboards and I am quite "neutral"
| about GMMK boards.
|
| 1. I read on the product's page they are compatible with QMK
| firmware, which makes possible to configure the keyboard from
| Linux (and I guess from OpenBSD). Probably the convenient
| configuration app it's Windows-only, but it seems we are not
| limited to it
|
| 2. That's weird and should not happen. It may be a defect with
| the keyboard / stabilizers or it may be a problem with the
| spacebar key (it's bent, twisted or it has been manufactured
| with the wrong geometry), but definitely it should be addressed
|
| 3. My experience is that a proper chair with arm rests and a
| table at the right height make a wrist rest unnecessary (and it
| can be counterproductive from a ergonomics perspective)
|
| 4. Nothing to comment about the dimming feature
|
| While nowadays you can find all kinds of prices and qualities
| regarding mechanical keyboards, $169.99 is really "cheap" for
| an entry level custom keyboard with these features.
|
| My impression is that the keyboard hobby is one of those things
| you don't fully get until you are into it, it's a dangerous
| rabbit hole :-)
| sigzero wrote:
| The DB4 (I like the black) is a beautiful case.
| OrvalWintermute wrote:
| I found this a real pleasure to read, as the author explained the
| why behind almost every decision, and was quite descriptive. Def
| hope to read more from Joshua.
| maxmalkav wrote:
| I totally understand the appeal of a totally silent desktop, been
| there :-) Making it fanless sounds like the obvious way but it
| gets quite expensive very soon (I just checked and just the DB4
| seems to cost >200EUR here in Europe).
|
| I secretly keep on wishing to build a true fanless system, but I
| have personally opted for something in between. A good quality
| PSU (fanless or with a fan only active after certain threshold),
| SSD drives (mechanical ones are terrible offenders about noise),
| a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more
| than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a
| reasonable price. If you need to add a discrete GPU to the
| equation you can get a not too power hungry one with decent fan
| regulation (they can work fanless under low workloads).
|
| While not fanless and not a truly 0dB system, any potential noise
| is covered by any background noise, even in quiet places, your
| own keyboard typing or the audio from your gaming session if you
| are stressing your GPU.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no
| more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a
| reasonable price
|
| I've followed fanless PC cases for years, but I always arrive
| at the same conclusion: Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so
| good that it's not hard to build an effectively silent PC that
| uses fans for cooling.
|
| My GPU and PSU don't even spin up their fans at all unless I'm
| playing a video game, at which point I'm wearing headphones
| anyway. A large CPU heatsink allows for slow spinning fans that
| are so quiet I can't tell if they're spinning at all without
| looking at them. The case itself is lined with acoustic damping
| material to attenuate noise even further.
|
| The loudest part of my recent builds hasn't been the fans. It's
| the noise made by the electromagnetic coils in the PSU. I had
| to swap power supplies to find an even quieter one, even though
| the fan wasn't spinning.
|
| I could see how a truly fanless PC could have used (recording
| studio or maybe a dusty environment where airflow isn't an
| option) but for most of us it's not hard to build an
| effectively silent case with good fan and component selection.
| egypturnash wrote:
| I am not a recording engineer (though my father was) but I
| suspect the more pragmatic approach to a quiet PC for your
| recording studio is to just put it in the next room and drill
| some holes through the wall for the cables.
| stereolambda wrote:
| True. Less radical thing I've done is placing the main unit
| next to heavy furniture in some distance from the actual
| desk, so it is mostly obscured for vision and sound waves
| it seems. With cabling and USB hubs (including those in the
| monitors) it remains pretty convenient. I'm sure you can go
| even further with standard sound dampening tricks if you
| care.
| Willox wrote:
| This is my experience too. Unless there's some sort of heavy
| workload going on you can have an "inaudible" computer fairly
| easily.
|
| Something I've seen people fall for is the idea that water-
| cooled computers will be more quiet but that's definitely not
| the case. You'll struggle to find a water pump that is
| quieter than a decently air cooled PC (when not under heavy
| load.)
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > Unless there's some sort of heavy workload going on you
| can have an "inaudible" computer fairly easily.
|
| The catch with these fanless setups is that they're mostly
| limited to low-TDP CPUs anyway. You can't use the most
| powerful CPUs with a passive heatsink unless you add fans
| to help when the workload peaks, which starts to defeat the
| purpose.
|
| > Something I've seen people fall for is the idea that
| water-cooled computers will be more quiet but that's
| definitely not the case.
|
| Water-cooled can be quieter for certain edge cases like
| cooling the CPU and GPU. You have to work hard to keep the
| pump quiet, though. I've tried several of the popular pumps
| (D5, DDC) with various PWM strategies, but they're never
| entirely silent.
|
| For CPU-only workloads, air cooling with a big heatsink is
| the way to go. A lot of people are surprised when they look
| at benchmark charts and see the best heatsinks
| outperforming most water coolers on the market.
| runjake wrote:
| _> Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so good that it's not
| hard to build an effectively silent PC that uses fans for
| cooling._
|
| This is a lie. Or we have entirely different definitions for
| what silent means.
|
| It's pretty hard. I just did this with a pretty good budget.
| It's taken a number of parts swaps to get to a truly silent
| PC.
|
| Amongst the issues are:
|
| - Lack of hardware/OS optimization. Coming from the Mac
| world, the coupling between hardware and software is much
| more loose. The driver quality is quite a bit more poor.
|
| - Product variances. Eg. I had two fans of the same model
| that had different sound profiles.
| lolinder wrote:
| > This is a lie. Or we have entirely different definitions
| for what silent means.
|
| Maybe lead with the second sentence and drop the first?
| "This is a lie" is a pretty strong reaction to what you
| immediately acknowledge is likely just a difference in
| preference.
| dtgriscom wrote:
| This. I have a Ryzen 7 3700X-based machine [1] with the factory
| CPU cooler, an SSD, and a quiet system fan. When idle, it's
| inaudible even with the exhaust fan facing you. When I'm
| compiling, the fan speeds up but you can only hear a quiet
| ticking. Any quieter would have had no value for me.
|
| [1] https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23
| s0rce wrote:
| I'm really happy with my integrated water cooling for my
| desktop, the large fan barely has to run and the water pump is
| almost inaudible except for the occasional gurgling noise. Its
| not the same sound as a whining small CPU cooling fan so much
| less annoying. The PSU fan also doesn't have to run much unless
| you really load the system. Been working well for almost 10
| years.
| gautamcgoel wrote:
| 100% this. I have a system with a fanless PSU from Seasonic, 3
| Noctua case fans and a Noctua CPU heatsink/CPU fan. I couldn't
| be happier with it. It is completely drowned out by any
| background noise (for example, the sound of typing, the hum of
| the AC, etc) and gives off a very, very faint whooshing sound
| when the house is truly silent. Personally I like the sound,
| it's the sound of high-end Austrian engineering working
| perfectly. I highly recommend Noctua fans.
| SavantIdiot wrote:
| Depends what you want to do with it.
|
| I have a 0dB system:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Kingdel-Powerful-Desktop-Computer-Ind...
|
| Works fine as my primary linux server.
| hutrdvnj wrote:
| > I just checked and just the DB4 seems to cost >200EUR here in
| Europe
|
| True, but you would likely spend about 100EUR-150EUR for a
| decent case + CPU cooler (e.g. noctua) anyway. If you consider
| that, then the DB4 is actually not that expensive.
| maxmalkav wrote:
| Fair point
| walrus01 wrote:
| What I would recommend if going for a quiet case with fans,
| look at 140mm low rpm fans. Disregard all midtower atx cases
| designed for use of 120mm fans.
|
| You can safely use a fairly large passive cpu heatsink if with
| a 65W tdp cpu. Human annoyance noise from small DC fans
| increases as they get smaller (40/60mm size fans are perfect
| examples). A slow 140mm size fan can move quite a lot of air
| and very quietly.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| There is no need to spend extra for 140. A quality 120 is
| negligibly higher CFM then a quality 140 at the same RPM.
|
| It used to be that bigger is better, but there are
| diminishing returns, and manufacturers have started making
| quiet fans in all sizes
|
| [Edit]
|
| To be clear, if the case you like happens to have 140mm fan
| bays, that's fine, but no need to specifically look for that.
| Dunedan wrote:
| > There is no need to spend extra for 140. A quality 120 is
| negligibly higher CFM then a quality 140 at the same RPM.
|
| Where do you get these numbers from?
|
| Take Noctua fans for example, which are arguably some of
| the best on the market. A 140mm NF-A14 PWM [1] does have a
| throughput of 140.2 m3/h at 1,500 RPM, while a 120mm
| NF-A12x25 PWM [2]does only have a throughput of 84.5 m3/h
| at 1,700 RPM. And that even with the NF-A12x25 PWM being a
| newer generation fan than the NF-A14 PWM!
|
| [1]:
| https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm/specification
|
| [2]: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12x25-pwm/specif
| icatio...
| walrus01 wrote:
| A quality 120 is louder and has a higher pitched noise than
| a quality 140.
| Jhsto wrote:
| Each to their own. I have a 6 disk HDD RAID server in my
| sleeping room, because I find the random read and write sounds
| relaxing at night. It's not disturbing either, as the sounds
| are muzzled by a noise dampening case.
| Forbo wrote:
| Using rubber grommets for all my mounts has made my HDD
| sounds so much quieter. An absolute world of difference.
| eins1234 wrote:
| I used to build my own desktops when I was younger, but my most
| recent desktops have all been Intel NUCs, mostly due to valuing
| time/space/noise over raw price/performance (and due my rapidly
| declining gaming needs).
|
| One feature that I've really grown to love that I don't
| remember ever seeing with custom machines is the ability to
| fully customize the fan-curve, including the ability to
| completely turn off the fan below certain temperatures.
|
| This makes it as good as a truly silent build for most day to
| day use, but with effective cooling available for intensive
| tasks for when I need the extra power.
|
| Maybe these days there are motherboards that allow you to
| configure the fan curve this way as well? I personally think
| this kind of configuration gives the best of both worlds.
| montecarl wrote:
| Since you asked. Most of the motherboards I've worked with
| recently let you set a custom fan curve with the option to
| turn the fan off completely. You can also adjust which
| temperature sensor the fan curve is based on. This can be
| controlled for each fan connected to the motherboard.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| > but I was disappointed at how every non-server motherboard
| seems to be targeted towards gamers with all kinds of stupid
| flashing LEDs and aggressive branding.
|
| Yup, it's all gamer chic now. We NEED all those flashy LEDs
| inside that 4U rackmount case! :)
|
| Really, I don't care one way or the other, though for a server
| I'd want something with a BMC. More important to me is that the
| motherboard itself doesn't have any fans. If there's a little
| bitty fan on the chipset, don't just walk away, run.
| drdebug wrote:
| Motherboards have fan now?
| moonbug wrote:
| you'll be wanting a SpectraLogic Black Pearl.
| brnt wrote:
| Gamer chic or gamer kitch...
| joeman1000 wrote:
| Anyone else get secondhand neck strain just looking at the
| monitor position? Cool setup regardless! Nice website too.
| Thanks.
| joseflavio wrote:
| I have 3 fanless desktops and you can build them quite cheaply if
| 65w cpus are enough for you. You can get a fanless seasonic power
| supply for 90 usd and use cpu cooler Artic Alpine 12 for 25 USD -
| the remaining components including the case can be quite standard
| maxmalkav wrote:
| The "problem" of using a regular case for totally fanless setup
| is these cases are designed with a fan-generated air flow in
| mind. The cases designed for passive operation, like the DB4
| try to generate some airflow by convection to compensate.
|
| A setup like the one you describe can be quite OK (specially
| with modern hardware), but it may run kind of warm-ish due the
| lack of proper airflow (and heat kind of shortens life of
| electronic components in the long run). Worst case scenario,
| you can always install very low RPM fans to this setup.
| eunice wrote:
| surprised to see so many people with 'inaudible' ryzen setups, my
| 3600 runs loud and hot with a noctua nhu9s
| gswdh wrote:
| I can't imagine this guys posture with the monitor that low and
| small.
|
| I'm totally with this guys on the LEDs.
| layoutIfNeeded wrote:
| Ah, the Streacom DB4... what a piece of art!
|
| For a while I was pondering whether to invest in a completely
| silent home server using the DB4, but it would have meant that I
| would need to go all-in with solid-state storage, which would get
| a bit pricey for a 4 Tb RAID10 array :(
| tbrock wrote:
| Why not just get an M1 macbook air? Its likely more performant,
| also has no fan, runs bsd, whats not to like?
|
| You could probably one day replace MacOS with openbsd if you
| wanted.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their
| first AMD processor in 2021.
|
| Small 60 Hz monitor, crappy wireless mouse, and a Samsung 980 Pro
| SSD. But hey, the person was trying to build a non gaming
| machine. Disappointing article
|
| That said, I totally get what the author was going for. It's that
| I completely disagree with most choices
|
| Edit: downvote all you want, there's nothing about this build
| that merits fluff
| vehemenz wrote:
| How is the refresh rate relevant? If it were a CRT, I could
| somewhat understand because 60 Hz visibly flickers and might
| give you a headache. But this has never been a concern with
| LCDs.
| floatboth wrote:
| For work, I'd definitely prefer resolution over refresh rate,
| and 4K120 is still too expensive sadly. Agree on the mouse,
| non-gaming mice are bad. What's wrong with the 980 Pro?
| beebeepka wrote:
| 4k120 is not only expensive, it's plagued by all sorts of
| issues, not to mention fans.
|
| As for 980pro. It's just an Eco with the Pro branding. Check
| out 5he reviews. It's a joke
| floatboth wrote:
| Which reviewers? Anandtech says it's, like, the first
| really good PCIe gen4 SSD
| https://www.anandtech.com/show/16087/the-samsung-980-pro-
| pci...
| beebeepka wrote:
| Well, have fun paying premium for TLC
| flatiron wrote:
| The part about them scratching their head about csm had me
| scratching my head too. OpenBSD is wonderful. But at the same
| time not really tailored to this setup.
| oblak wrote:
| Doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the whole point of
| BSD is to run old hardware [for various reasons]
| flatiron wrote:
| As far as BSD "reasons" net bsd might be the "run on
| anything" reason. OpenBSD is more "code quality and
| security". For example hyperthrrading is disabled by
| default. They priority security over speed.
| peanut_worm wrote:
| Looks beautiful, I love the keyboards. I find something about the
| sound of a fan to be comforting. Reminds me of home.
|
| Although the fan on my work Macbook Air sounds like an air
| compressor and I am not a 'fan' of it at all :)
| pedrocr wrote:
| Great writeup. For someone so meticulous it's surprising that
| Gb/Tb is used where GB/TB is meant. Reading the X1 Nano review
| seems like that is consistent.
| srean wrote:
| This reminded me of experiments with a _case-less-fan-full_
| setup. Not a cpu fan but a full-fledged table fan.
|
| As a cash-strapped recently exed-student of that time I had
| assembled a desktop based on AMD K6 CPU one summer. They were
| significantly cheaper than the Intel peers of that time.
|
| I had two favorite tests to check a running system (i) compile
| the kernel and (ii) run GNU Chess against each other.
|
| To my sinking disappointed both crashed repeatedly on this
| assembly, I had sunk quite a bit of my savings into this. Those
| days you had to take a lot of care choosing your hardware if you
| wanted to run Linux.
|
| Linux was largely an unknown entity in India at that time. We
| used to get Linux distributions (usually Redhat, Debian or
| Mandrake) on CDs that came with a magazine called PCQuest. Many
| thanks to Atul Chitnis (RIP) for popularizing an alternative path
| to a computer experience. Anything other than Windows was
| unimaginable in India at that time.
|
| Guessing it could be an overheating problem, I removed the case
| and directed a table fan at it - Problem solved! I had it run
| kernel compilation on a loop all through the day, no failures.
|
| Later I reapplied the thermal paste on the cpu/heatsink fixture
| (it had come as an assembly when I had purchased it). After that
| I could compile the kernel -- case closed.
|
| Came away with the realization that AMD chips though cheaper,
| they tend to run hotter. This turned out to be good learning too.
| Running 2 Athlon based desktops with their fans directed at me
| gave me enough heating in the winter as a grad student.
|
| Fun days.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Everything about this setup is amazing to me. The desk, the
| office, the high-dpi screen, the fanless nature: awesome. I
| wonder though is there any risk of coil whine?
| floatboth wrote:
| There always is, though with desktops you can hand-pick the PSU
| and mainboard (and graphics card if using a dedicated one) to
| not have the whiny kind of inductors. Or you can add ambient
| noise, or listen to music :)
| gigatexal wrote:
| is there any research that says something like a platinum or
| gold rated PSU will always or most of the time not have any
| coil whine? same for high-end or quality capped motherboards?
| or is it a fundamental thing in all electronics and we just
| don't hear it over the fans and other ambient noise?
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(page generated 2021-07-25 23:01 UTC)