[HN Gopher] Flying Only with the Heat of the Sun
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       Flying Only with the Heat of the Sun
        
       Author : john-doe
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2021-07-24 12:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.notechmagazine.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.notechmagazine.com)
        
       | tdeck wrote:
       | When I was a kid at science camp we demonstrated this effect.
       | They had a very long sausage-shaped black plastic bag that we all
       | rand around filling up and laid out in the sun until it rose. I
       | always assumed this strange bag was designed for such demos. In
       | our case something happened (a person let go, a tether broke; I
       | don't recall), and the "solar sausage" flew away completely until
       | we could no longer see it.
        
       | elif wrote:
       | I'm no balloon expert, but it seems like they could have absorbed
       | more heat with a translucent top.
       | 
       | Then the solar rays would enter the chamber before hitting the
       | black fabric and reflecting back into the chamber.. more
       | frequencies of light, more chances to catch the heat.
       | 
       | Like the SHGC effect observed by closing/opening curtains
        
       | ramraj07 wrote:
       | Isn't almost anything that's not powered by nuclear energy flying
       | only with the heat of the sun with extra steps? If you include
       | the definition of "some sun" then even nuclear energy is the
       | same, just with a multi billion year cycle.
        
         | phreeza wrote:
         | Just to counter your nitpick with another nitpick, geothermal
         | is also not solar with extra steps :-)
         | 
         | Edit: tidal power would also seem to fall into that bucket
         | because it comes from the gravitational forces of the solar
         | system.
        
           | unishark wrote:
           | Imagine the climate change problems if we used up too much
           | gravitational energy from the solar system.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | devenson wrote:
             | Slowing the rotation of the earth.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | dimman wrote:
               | Oh noes, not longer working hours...
        
       | Robotbeat wrote:
       | Sailplanes also do this. "Gliders" get a brief mention as an
       | aside, but it's somewhat glossed over, but fundamentally the
       | sport of flying depends on the same solar thermal phenomenon
       | except instead of producing black material to absorb sunlight,
       | sailplanes rely on existing low albedo features of the landscape
       | to generate the solar heated air.
       | 
       | Sailplanes air often towed to the air by powered aircraft in the
       | US, but higher performance sailplanes usually carry their own
       | motor for self launch (often electric) and in Europe are often
       | winch-launched. Gravity launch (rolling down hill) and auto tow
       | (a car pulls the sailplane into the air, usually with a pulley)
       | are also fairly common, and the former would meet this "low tech"
       | qualification.
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | I really recommend anyone flying a glider as a passenger (in
         | Europe this is often possible on regional air shows run by the
         | local aeroclub) it's totally different experience to engine
         | powered aircraft!
         | 
         | It's much quieter than small general aviation aircraft so you
         | can talk to the pilot without a headset, the only noise being
         | the air flowing around the plane.
         | 
         | The whole plane is also usually much lighter and has better
         | visibility, not to mention being very graceful. At least for me
         | the experience felt much more direct and elegant.
         | 
         | And the experience of being powered pretty much directly by
         | nature _and_ the pilots skill in finding the invisible rising
         | thermals is priceless! Its the perfect metagame, the pilot uses
         | their extensive meteorogical experience to guess where the
         | thermals are and flies there. If the guess was right you are
         | rewarded by the sweet sweet positive altitude value on the
         | variometer. If the guess was wrong the altitude budget is spent
         | and you have to land and try again.
         | 
         | And lastly, it all feels so safe! Like, really - the aircraft
         | has no engine that can fail and is pretty much built to land on
         | any reasonably flat field. And the pilot is trained to always
         | look for a landing area in case they don't find thermals and
         | have to land early.
         | 
         | And what happens if a glider lands in a field ? Gliders have
         | detachable wings so that they can be loaded on trailer
         | dispatched from the airfield. In favorable conditions sometimes
         | a tow aircraft can be dispatched to land near the glider on the
         | same field and tow it aloft again.
         | 
         | Really, gliders are so much different than "normal" aircraft
         | yet so fascinating! :)
        
           | vitro wrote:
           | Yep, we have an airport nearby and anytime you can pay and go
           | for a flight.
           | 
           | As for thermals, also search for gliding birds as they may
           | have found them first!
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | I find these and the low tech magazine articles fascinating,
       | though I sometimes feel that either I'm a) falling victim to an
       | elaborate prank, b) unknowingly supporting the output of
       | someone's mental health issues (though I feel that about some of
       | my best loved musical acts too).
       | 
       | Now that's there's two sources, I'm further confused as to
       | whether one is mocking the other, but if they are it's possibly
       | too subtle for me to catch.
        
         | spodek wrote:
         | I consider No and Low Tech Magazine among the best sites on the
         | web. He's living by different values than mainstream. He loves
         | technology and he loves sustainability. For many those loves
         | conflict. They keep seeing attempts to make things more
         | efficient lead to more pollution. They don't think in systems.
         | 
         | His values are more in line with history, particularly before
         | the industrial revolution. He finds out and shares how people
         | did things without burning fossil fuels that we can learn from.
         | 
         | The site has changed my life. One example: his articles on how
         | power grids become insecure and expensive with higher uptimes,
         | making using just renewables harder
         | https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/12/keeping-some-of-
         | the-..., combined with an article on fermentation in Vietnam
         | https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2017/02/vietnams-low-tech-fe...
         | led me to try unplugging my fridge. Using my windowsill for
         | cold and fermenting, my first try two winters ago, I made it
         | three months. My next try, last winter, I started earlier and
         | made it 6.5 months. My food was as delicious as ever and my
         | electric charges dropped to under $2.00 per month. More
         | importantly, I live more resiliently. If more people lived this
         | way, large parts of the country could go with just renewables,
         | barely any batteries, no peaker plants, no nuclear, more
         | health, longevity, prosperity, stability, energy security.
         | 
         | With that little energy use, I'm going to try taking my
         | apartment off the electric grid for a few months this winter.
         | That's living in Manhattan. I'll also start earlier as I
         | developed more skills to store and ferment without a fridge, so
         | starting in October or maybe September, I figure I can go 8 or
         | 9 months without a fridge -- that is, living resiliently.
         | 
         | To clarify, my power reduction is a side point. Divided by 7.9
         | billion it's a rounding error. It's the value shift from
         | dependence to independence, from relying on burning fossil
         | fuels to learning from my neighbors, family, and ancestors. The
         | cause of our environmental problems isn't CO2 and plastics.
         | They result from our behaviors, which result from our culture.
         | He comes from a culture that doesn't cause these problems, or
         | at least orders of magnitude less.
         | 
         | Such solutions are practical, affordable, immediately doable
         | and most available to those with the least resources. His
         | philosophy focuses on improving human life, community, and
         | Earth's ability to sustain life.
        
           | Robotbeat wrote:
           | Man, we still need industrial scale clean energy solutions
           | (to make your apartment, etc). Solar balloons are terribly
           | inefficient & impractical compared to, say, a solar aircraft.
        
         | asymmetric wrote:
         | What's the relationship between No and Low tech magazine?
        
           | spodek wrote:
           | No tech magazine posts short quotes from other sources.
           | 
           | Low tech magazine posts longer, original articles.
           | 
           | Same people behind them, as best I can tell.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | Here's a toy one, good reviews, but fragile (have tape) and prob
       | use once -
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/TEDCO-Tedcotoys-Activity-50-foot-Ball...
       | 
       | Practically perhaps you could use the principal to manage
       | buoyancy on lighter than air... unlikely though, to much added
       | complexity.
        
       | lovemenot wrote:
       | At the end of the article:
       | 
       | >> The problem remains that fully solar balloons need sunlight,
       | and it is rare for the sky to remain unclouded for long journeys.
       | 
       | Above 6,000 metres, it is rather rare that any cloud blocks the
       | sun in daylight hours. This method of transport has potential for
       | freight.
       | 
       | Rather than black, you'd want a transparent skin or layers of
       | skins. Focus sunlight with internal reflectors onto an engine.
       | Usefully, waste heat is not a problem here, but valuable, when
       | captured in the envelope.
       | 
       | The engine should use more than just heat energy. Visible light
       | for PV power generation. Maybe ultraviolet can be used to
       | elecrolyse environmental water vapour to hydrogen. To provide
       | both lift and energy storage for night time.
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | Similar system (partially transparent baloon) can be used in
         | space for the solar thermal engine concept:
         | 
         | http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#...
        
           | lovemenot wrote:
           | Nice. Space lacks a key drawback of the atmospheric solar
           | concentrating balloons. Namely wind. It is difficult to point
           | reflectors at the sun when the whole craft is slightly
           | changing orientation all the time.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-25 23:02 UTC)