[HN Gopher] Mixed Reality with Passthrough
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mixed Reality with Passthrough
        
       Author : bemmu
       Score  : 134 points
       Date   : 2021-07-24 08:30 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (developer.oculus.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (developer.oculus.com)
        
       | throwuxiytayq wrote:
       | Zuck. We don't care.
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | I couldn't think of a good use for a low resolution, laggy
       | grayscale mix-in video of my real environment.
       | 
       | The page does show one use case that I'm very interested in--
       | showing the rough position of my hands, keyboard and mouse. If
       | there's to be advancements in VR development environments, it has
       | to at least have an input mechanism that's as good as what we
       | have in the real world. Having the same in VR is as good and can
       | be improved upon.
        
       | ExitPlatosCave wrote:
       | This changes everything!
       | 
       | I would find it interesting to see how a layer on top of reality
       | would allow non-technical people to perform technical tasks.
       | 
       | For example I don't know a lot about car engines. I can imagine
       | being guided through minor repairs by utilizing these types of
       | overlays.
       | 
       | I can imagine this kind of overlay system also to provide a big
       | boost in diagnosis for problems and systems such as car engines
       | or even medical diagnosis.
        
         | go_elmo wrote:
         | I find it hard to imagine to use the current bw only and grainy
         | cameras of e.g. the quest 2 for such tasks, it really doesnt
         | feel natural. But might be easy to improve this in future
         | generation hardware
        
           | blensor wrote:
           | It works if the "AR" is just using the real world as a kind
           | of backdrop and not the main visual elememt.
           | 
           | If you are using it the other way around as a kind of real
           | world view with only a few AR elements on top it gets old
           | pretty quicklY
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | Feels like a test. I think it's a solid bet Quest 3 will have
           | better cameras!
        
             | go_elmo wrote:
             | I'm sure they chose the ones used for better CV tracking &
             | properties, especially in low light etc, but could be easy
             | to add a pair of true-color ones, especially for
             | passthrough. Just checked again and the main issue IMO
             | currently is the low framerate / blur when using it. The
             | movement of the hands e.g. is quite uncomfortable this way.
        
         | in3d wrote:
         | It's hard to see why VR headsets with pass-through would win
         | out over AR headsets (like the Hololens) in the long term for
         | such uses. But I suppose if you need something right now, VR
         | would be more available and cheaper.
        
           | msk-lywenn wrote:
           | AFAIK, AR headsets are still additive displays, ie. no way of
           | displaying black. That's the only advantage I see in using VR
           | headsets for AR
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | Also waveguides have other limitations, like image
             | fidelity, FoV, needing darker environments and significant
             | display artifacts.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | One reason is that with hololens / magic leap you can't
           | create black. The display is like a 'screen' layer in
           | photoshop and can only add additional light, so you can't get
           | great contrast and anything you add to the scene has a ghost-
           | like quality.
           | 
           | All those demos you've seen of AR glasses making screens on a
           | wall are faked. Magic leap paid a special effects house to
           | make a lot of their 'real' demos.
           | 
           | Also - field of view. Magic leap has an AWFUL field of view.
        
             | ExitPlatosCave wrote:
             | I think it's interesting to think about adding elements to
             | what we experience in reality via AR.
             | 
             | Versus importing elements from reality into a VR
             | experience.
             | 
             | Based on your comments I would say one of the big
             | advantages of importing from reality into VR would be to be
             | able to move around without colliding into physical objects
             | in the real world.
        
               | jonplackett wrote:
               | That would be really cool. Like a game that had virtual
               | objects but in the same places as the physical world, but
               | hey don't need to be the same thing.
               | 
               | Long term I think the idea of a computer almost
               | permanently between us and our number one most trusted
               | sensory organ is a fast recipe for Utopia / Dystopia.
        
         | cheschire wrote:
         | You basically described the Hololens concept from years ago.
         | What changed? This feels like old territory and the excitement
         | doesn't feel justified.
         | 
         | Edited.
        
           | plutonorm wrote:
           | It a practice platform for when the tech catches up with the
           | dream. Anyone who isn't excited by augmented reality tech is
           | just.... I dunno... bored of life?
        
             | shock-value wrote:
             | I'm not excited for AR at all. Conversely, I'm extremely
             | excited for VR and have only become more so after getting
             | my first headset (Quest 2 primarily used with SteamVR).
        
             | PicassoCTs wrote:
             | Its also a great chance, to virtualize large swathes of the
             | "non-touch" economy - and thus be another step stone to a
             | carbon reduced world. No need for a plastic gnome on the
             | front lawn, just place it. No need for birthday deco, just
             | place it in virt, no need for other deco, just place it in
             | virt. No need for a fancy car display, just use virt-hud,
             | with a basic-backup.
        
             | malka wrote:
             | I am waiting for AR lenses.
        
             | f6v wrote:
             | > Anyone who isn't excited by augmented reality tech is
             | just.... I dunno... bored of life?
             | 
             | I want invisible technology, the one that does everything
             | and I don't have to interact with it.
        
             | anon_tor_12345 wrote:
             | >Anyone who isn't excited by augmented reality tech is
             | just.... I dunno... bored of life?
             | 
             | lol isn't this just the most ironic claim? i'm not excited
             | by augmented reality exactly because i'm not bored with
             | life (i.e. unaugmented reality).
        
           | ExitPlatosCave wrote:
           | Possibly this is not a great analogy but if there was just
           | one car company in the world for example Ford, I don't think
           | cars would be as versatile or as commonly adopted.
           | 
           | Therefore I'm seeing any progress on the part of multiple
           | companies signaling that this is more than just a one-off.
           | 
           | Another example would be the very early handheld iPad
           | predecessors (Palm Pilot). Look like nothing was going to
           | happen there. But after several failures it started to take
           | hold.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | Fundamentally different devices.
           | 
           | The Hololens is a waveguide display with a very small FOV.
           | It's also 10x the price.
        
           | ahiknsr wrote:
           | > What changed?
           | 
           | Hololens price is $3,500 where as Quest 2 price is 300$.
           | Quest 2 has the potential to become a mainstream device with
           | that price.
        
             | cheschire wrote:
             | Okay that's a perspective I can understand a little better.
             | Making AR more accessible by using cheaper VR technology to
             | implement it seems like a good reason to be interested.
             | 
             | I'm still not seeing the excitement as a consumer because
             | the apps aren't there yet. From a development perspective
             | it also just feels... iterative.
        
               | xoa wrote:
               | > _I 'm still not seeing the excitement as a consumer
               | because the apps aren't there yet._
               | 
               | Why would the apps ever be there if the hardware isn't?
               | Wouldn't that statement be like complaining "the apps
               | aren't there yet" for the iPhone 1 or Android launch? We
               | know how that movie plays out.
               | 
               | > _From a development perspective it also just feels...
               | iterative._
               | 
               | But "iterative" is generally by far the most important
               | part of technical success where mainstream adoption is
               | required to get the most out of it. Nobody builds Rome in
               | a day, it takes years reaching a critical mass of
               | iterative improvements.
        
               | dalbasal wrote:
               | Incrementalism is the name of the game.
               | 
               | Cheaper, better devices... about an order of magnitude
               | here. A larger user base, by more than that. A better
               | understanding of UX paradigms. ETC.
               | 
               | The majority of successful products of the last
               | generation were conceptualized and attempted during the
               | dotcom, circa 95-00. Smartphones, social media, online
               | dating, ecommerce, travel, cloud computing.... The user
               | base, infrastructure, technology, culture and such just
               | weren't there yet.
               | 
               | If you wrote off everything that was attempted but failed
               | to catch fire in the 90s, you would have written off
               | almost every tech product created since.
        
             | Cybotron5000 wrote:
             | I'm a fan of the potential of these technologies, but I'm
             | guessing that sadly FB's subsidised/closed VR/AR systems
             | will have a 'hidden' (& frankly creepy) cost that is
             | unfortunately characteristic of their business model:
             | https://itif.org/publications/2021/03/04/balancing-user-
             | priv... https://carrcenter.hks.harvard.edu/publications/rei
             | magining-... https://www.reedsmith.com/-/media/files/perspe
             | ctives/2017/06... [pdf]
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Hololens (and most other AR headsets) is an additive display
           | on a transparent waveguide. The Quest2 is passthrough video
           | on a full face LCD.
           | 
           | The display technologies are fundamentally different. HL is
           | additive so you can't show blacks. You have to make due with
           | tricking the eye with grays. Its a lot harder to get
           | realistic lighting on objects. The FOV on the Quest2 is much
           | better.
           | 
           | The Quest2 is a couple SOC generations ahead of the HL2.
           | 
           | The Quest2 has a much bigger install base.
           | 
           | The Quest2 is 1/10th the price.
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | It's a HN guideline not to accuse others of shilling without
           | evidence. (It's such a common pattern that it makes for
           | boring reading, among other reasons.)
        
       | Iv wrote:
       | Oh, a tech from a decade ago adapted on the closed SDK of a
       | closed device!
       | 
       | The fact that they have to write a paragraph promising that
       | everything is local and that videos don't get sent online,
       | curiously, makes me even more suspicious.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | What tech from a decade ago are you talking about? This is one
         | of the first devices,at least the first in the consumer price
         | point, to have this functionality at this high fidelity.
        
           | potatolicious wrote:
           | Yeah... I don't remember any kind of low-latency high-res VR
           | video-passthrough from 2011 (or anything even close to that
           | year)... not to mention anything at a consumer price point.
           | 
           | I suppose FB now falls under the usual umbrella of Apple
           | criticism: they implemented something well, for which the
           | _possibility_ has been known in the industry for some time,
           | and so we gotta slag on them for not inventing it?
           | 
           | I continue to have strong reservations about an ad company
           | (especially that has such a dodgy history with user privacy)
           | running this platform, but the technical achievements from
           | FBRL are quite (pun intended) real.
        
         | LambdaComplex wrote:
         | And if they didn't write that paragraph? It's Facebook, so
         | you'd be suspicious anyways (and rightfully so).
        
         | neither_color wrote:
         | As a Quest 2 owner I'd love some competition but nothing comes
         | close to its feature set at its price point. Valve index or HP
         | Reverb may have marginally higher resolutions, but Quest 2 is
         | both standalone AND does PCVR/Steam completely wirelessly. For
         | what its worth it's easier to sideload apps on a quest than an
         | iphone, and I've gotten random android utilities to run on
         | mine, most importantly Mullvad VPN. You can install a custom
         | app launcher and a utility that lets you instantly access it by
         | double clicking the side button, letting you skip all of
         | facebook's stuff. You can browse the open app catalog here:
         | 
         | https://sidequestvr.com/
         | 
         | Between the oculus store, sidequest, Steam, and dropping in
         | android APKs the device is a lot less closed than you think.
         | Would I prefer if it was facebook account free? Yes but I dont
         | know who else has the cash to compete with facebook on this
         | one.
        
           | MikusR wrote:
           | Quest 2 has higher resolution than Index. And if you look at
           | pixels per degree then Quest 2 has almost twice the
           | resolution of Index.
        
         | MikusR wrote:
         | It's using https://www.khronos.org/openxr/
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I own a Quest 1, and I've got every bone to pick with Facebook
         | imaginable.
         | 
         | However, the Oculus Passthrough implementation (and their
         | 'guardian' feature, for that matter) is unparalleled. It's many
         | times more dependable than the SteamVR safety features, and
         | surprisingly low-latency. I'm not at all surprised that it's
         | local.
        
       | spdebbarma wrote:
       | I am so glad I invested in an Oculus Quest 2 recently. So far,
       | I've been having so much fun just exploring the various things to
       | do in VR.
       | 
       | I initially bought this to explore UI/UX for VR, but with AR, it
       | opens up the technology and my personal research to a whole slew
       | of challenges.
        
         | billconan wrote:
         | How long can you use it before feeling dizzy?
        
           | psyc wrote:
           | I've only used 2 headsets. The first PSVR made me queasy
           | quickly. I've used the Quest 2 a ton without feeling dizzy or
           | sick for even one moment.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | I can use it for 2 hours or more. The only games where I get
           | dizzy within 15 minutes are the roller coaster and driving
           | games that spin you upside down where it feels like you have
           | no control over movement.
        
           | cmiles74 wrote:
           | I don't really get dizzy or disoriented unless it's a game
           | where you move with the joystick control or something. Games
           | where you move around a table or teleport from place to place
           | haven't bothered me at all.
        
         | fruityrudy wrote:
         | Same. Best purchase in a long time. Can't believe I was
         | wondering if it would be worth it.
         | 
         | The VR UI paradigms are really nice.
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | AR has been in the consumer space a lot longer than VR. In fact
         | I'm more surprised that AR had never taken off in a big way
         | than I was about VR. Sure we've seen some games like Pokemon Go
         | take advantage of it. But AR should have been a game changer.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Well, it doesn't help that nobody actively releasing apps
           | seems to understand that AR is a lot more than just drawing
           | things on top of a camera feed.
           | 
           | Almost every social video platform has some firm of AR
           | filters. Snap probably has the most pervasive use of AR, with
           | tools available to develop new filters (Lens Studio).
           | 
           | As of right now, these are the only examples of apps that do
           | something with the tech that can't be done without the tech,
           | and probably done better.
           | 
           | You can see why in the games market and Pokemon Go is a good
           | example of why. The AR camera feature distracts, not adds, to
           | the gameplay. Everyone I knew playing the game turned the
           | camera feature off because it drained battery fast and
           | limited play time.
           | 
           | Now, I would still call Pokemon Go an AR game, even without
           | the camera feed, because I count the map overlay tracking
           | your real work location a form of AR. It is a feature that
           | _augments_ your _reality_. And that feature adds to the
           | gameplay. People enjoy traveling to play the game.
           | 
           | I think AR games will never be a big thing because AR design
           | is fundamentally at odds with game design. With AR, you have
           | to design an app the works in a context that the user brings
           | in. In contrast, with VR, you're designing an app that
           | provides a context to the user. Game design--especially as
           | done by most game studios--is usually focused on providing a
           | wholly contained experience for the user.
           | 
           | And that AR design challenge is just fundamentally more
           | challenging. First of all, we can't get a lot of the
           | interesting information about a user's personal context. The
           | most we can get right now is geographic location, rough
           | estimations of surfaces in their area, and maybe some very
           | rough object classification. We don't know things like
           | whether or not the user has a TV, or where that TV is
           | located. Even if we did, we'll probably never be able to know
           | what brand of TV they have, so now you have a problem of none
           | of the stakeholders caring to ever fund a "TV classifying"
           | project, because they'd never be able to sell the branding
           | tie-in.
           | 
           | And I think that's the real problem with both the AR and VR
           | industries. There's little incentive to create a product that
           | users will care about, outside of games, which work better in
           | VR. Any funding your going to find for any use case outside
           | of games will want it 100% married to their brand, but brands
           | have all gotten so indistinguishable from one another that
           | there's nothing to really _do_.
        
           | Closi wrote:
           | > But AR should have been a game changer.
           | 
           | VR turned out to be the easier of the two to turn into a
           | viable consumer product - mainly because you can get away
           | with a big bulky headset for gaming around the house, but you
           | can't wear it outside for a walk.
           | 
           | The hardware that you could wear outside for a walk (e.g.
           | google glass) hasn't actually been AR, and has just been like
           | a tiny heads-up display in the corner of your eye.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Mandelmus wrote:
           | AR will become a game changer once the hardware is there,
           | i.e. glasses than can be worn comfortably and anywhere.
           | Everything before that is just practice for the software and
           | UI.
        
           | cwe wrote:
           | AR has been a game changer, via face filters. More stuff is
           | possible with it everyday, but it's already getting a lot of
           | usage
        
         | tluyben2 wrote:
         | I haven't been following Oculus since I bought the first one on
         | Kickstarter (which I had a lot of fun with); the Quest 2 has
         | cameras to support AR or is that an add on? It looks like it on
         | pictures, but there is little mention of it on most pages about
         | it (at least at a quick look).
        
           | Duralias wrote:
           | The first oculus headsets used camera base stations to track
           | the headset and controllers, all of the recent ones have used
           | cameras on the headsets itself to track everything, these can
           | be used to see the real world, however since they are
           | infrared cameras meant for tracking there is no colour and
           | the resolution isn't as high as it should be for AR to be
           | useful.
        
             | cortesoft wrote:
             | I had the first oculus, and it didn't have any base
             | stations. It didn't track anything at all, in fact... it
             | only detected rotational motion of your head, it didn't
             | detect any other motion at all. There also were not any
             | controllers.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | It sounds like you're talking about Oculus Go, which
               | isn't the first oculus.
        
               | taneq wrote:
               | Once upon a time the original Rift only had 3DOF
               | tracking. This was back in the "Palmer Luckey just met
               | John Carmack" days.
        
               | Zetaphor wrote:
               | The original DK1 was 3DoF, and the CV1 launched with a
               | single sensor and an Xbox controller. The CV1 didn't get
               | proper 6DoF until after launch.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | The first oculus is the rift though
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | They released a dev kit that was called the oculus rift
               | that came out before the one you are thinking of.
        
               | mintplant wrote:
               | DK2 had a separate camera for outside-in tracking. I have
               | one in a box in my closet.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | No, I had the Dev Kit 1. It was called Oculus Rift.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | The Oculus Rift definitely had more than what you're
               | talking about, and it was the first oculus
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | I have one sitting next to me. It doesn't have positional
               | tracking... you can read about it here: https://en.wikipe
               | dia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift#Development_Kit_1
        
               | rubicon33 wrote:
               | I believe he is referring to the first commercially
               | available headset, which is indeed, the CV1 "Oculus Rift"
        
               | andybak wrote:
               | Yes but those were developer kits not retail devices.
        
               | tluyben2 wrote:
               | Even that I forgot: mine was the dev kit indeed.
        
               | cortesoft wrote:
               | Sure, but they were still called an Oculus Rift.
        
           | timdorr wrote:
           | Yes, the Quest 1/2 and Rift S do "inside out" tracking. They
           | have 4 cameras (5 on the Rift S) on each corner of the front
           | face plate that tracks the headset and controller positions
           | in 3D space (in addition to internal accelerometers and
           | gyroscopes).
           | 
           | This is, for the most part, what enables the Quest to be
           | fully wireless. Because there is no base station or fixed
           | position camera, you're not limited to where you can use it,
           | nor how big your play area can be. If you're in a new space,
           | you just draw a guardian border around your play area and
           | you're good to go.
           | 
           | The "passthru" feature mentioned above lets you see the
           | camera feeds composited together in the headset display. It's
           | very helpful for things like moving a chair out of the way or
           | finding your controllers if you put on the headset without
           | grabbing them. This new API allows developers access to this
           | camera feed and to interact with its display for AR
           | applications.
        
       | efnx wrote:
       | If you dig the idea of using VR for productivity then you should
       | check out the SimulaVR project, which brings wayland/X support to
       | Linux VR.
       | 
       | https://simulavr.com/
        
       | devwastaken wrote:
       | I lie awake at night and wonder, what if valve made competitive
       | VR hardware, instead of the steamdeck?
       | 
       | It's clear the r&d is heavily in oculus's favor, and nobody is
       | showing up to play. Even valves new headset is marketing fluff-
       | "reading brain waves" doesn't work how they advertise it.
        
         | fartcannon wrote:
         | Valve has the advantage of not being a feeding tube for a
         | bloated, predatory social network.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | The other major advantage is that they're not publicly traded
           | which forces you to do unsavory things to chase analyst
           | quarterly forecasts
        
           | MikusR wrote:
           | Because it already is one.
        
         | andyfilms1 wrote:
         | Oculus sells their hardware at a loss, and make up for it by
         | selling your data.
         | 
         | Valve doesn't care about being competitive. They're not market
         | driven. They hire the best engineers possible, and let them
         | work on what they want.
         | 
         | Sometimes that comes together in something beautiful (Alyx,
         | Index) sometimes it results in something out of touch (steam
         | machines) and sometimes it results in unending development
         | hell.
        
           | baby wrote:
           | > Oculus sells their hardware at a loss, and make up for it
           | by selling your data.
           | 
           | Source?
        
           | gfodor wrote:
           | What facebook does is worse than selling your data, but they
           | rely upon people saying they sell your data, which they can
           | deny, to hide what they actually do, which is analyze your
           | data to sell behavior modification products.
        
       | Irishsteve wrote:
       | Do you still need a fb login to use oculus ?
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | Was about to buy one to play with, especially as they have new
         | hardware (to me, I wasn't paying attention).
         | 
         | Then I noticed this on the terms of service when clicking
         | 'buy':
         | 
         |  _Requires wireless internet access and a Facebook account._
         | 
         | And, uh, heh... no. Just no. I don't even need a Sony/PS
         | account to use a playstation, and at least a PS account has to
         | do with, you know, the playstation.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, Facebook has to do with a bazillion other things,
         | has all this baggage, I've never had and ever ever want an
         | account, and... what? I'm going to get an account for a barely
         | usable piece of expensive hardware?
         | 
         | No.
        
         | theptip wrote:
         | Yup. Seems like they walked back the forced migration for
         | existing users, but new Oculus users must sign up with FB it
         | seems.
         | 
         | https://www.oculus.com/blog/facebook-accounts-on-oculus/?loc...
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | How do you lend the device to your friends? Do you log out
           | and let your friends log in?
           | 
           | Can you sell the device without your personal ID on it?
        
             | potatolicious wrote:
             | I have an Oculus Quest 2 - it's _really_ not intended to be
             | multi-user (even within a single household), which seems
             | like a big miss.
             | 
             | The answer to both of those questions is: "hit the factory
             | reset button in the Settings menu" which blows away any and
             | all state. That's realistic for selling the device but not
             | really for lending it.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | Facebook has allowed multiple account logins on a single
               | headset for a few months now.
        
         | kungito wrote:
         | Yes, you can make a fake account just for oculus. So?
        
           | blensor wrote:
           | Oculus does sell a version without the login restriction for
           | around $700
        
             | Bigpet wrote:
             | those are locked out of any apps on the Occulus store
             | though, right?
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | They are enterprise licensed headsets. You're not just
               | going to walk up to Facebook and say "here's $800, give
               | me a headset with no pre-installed apps".
               | 
               | You have to get approval to get access to Oculus for
               | Business, then you purchase the headsets through a
               | partner company (CDW, in my case).
               | 
               | But when you eventually get everyone to wake up long
               | enough, concurrently, to do their jobs, yes, you
               | essentially get A Quest 2 with no apps other than the
               | browser installed.
               | 
               | Is pretty cool. The browser is built on Chromium, so it
               | has the full WebXR API. I have a WebXR/WebRTC app that
               | I've built for my company. We have a fleet of 15 headsets
               | right now. We send them to our students taking our
               | foreign language classes and they use them to practice
               | with their instructor in 360 photo environments of
               | popular tourist places in their target country.
        
               | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
               | Do sidequest and wireless virtual desktop function?
               | 
               | Any blog posts you recommend from the hacking/developer
               | perspective?
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | I don't use Sidequest myself, but you can install any APK
               | you acquire yourself, so it should work. All of the
               | system features are the same, so hand tracking, Link, etc
               | should all work.
               | 
               | No, I don't have any links. Everything that is out there
               | is almost universally written for Unity and I don't do
               | Unity anymore.
        
               | blensor wrote:
               | You could dip into GodotEngine they have pretty decent VR
               | support. Our hand Tracking ng based fitness game
               | VRWorkout is made with godot
        
               | neither_color wrote:
               | >We send them to our students taking our foreign language
               | classes and they use them to practice with their
               | instructor in 360 photo environments of popular tourist
               | places in their target country.
               | 
               | Man this is actually my number one idea for a VR app: VR
               | language learning for more powerful immersion. Looks like
               | I'm not the first to think of this I'd better hurry.
               | 
               | Imagine you're learning French and when you get to the
               | word "voiture" a car materalizes in front of you, when
               | you get to the word "cheval" you're suddenly riding a
               | horse, etc. Now apply some SRS soup and you're learning
               | vocab in an unforgettable way. I have no idea where to
               | start but I want this.
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | There are apps on the market that kind of do that. They
               | are in various stages of development, but most of them
               | aren't really going anywhere. I believe the approach is
               | fundamentally wrong, as it focuses on the low-hanging
               | fruit of the problem of teaching people language.
               | 
               | We're the only company that makes the VR a part of an
               | existing program of instruction, with instructors. All
               | the other apps are self-driven, which doesn't really work
               | for the vast majority of people. We are also the only app
               | not leaning on speech-recognition, which also doesn't
               | really work for language training (too many false-
               | positives and false-negatives).
        
             | MikusR wrote:
             | Iirc those still need a Facebook for work account.
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | Only to manage the fleet of devices. The users of the
               | devices do not need a Facebook account. In fact, there
               | isn't even anywhere to enter one.
        
           | mnd999 wrote:
           | Do you not risk being banned for being a fake account if the
           | Facebook AI doesn't think you're social mediaing enough?
        
             | SirHound wrote:
             | Yeah you do.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | No you don't (officially), I also use a throwaway account
               | and had no issues. There were a few unrelated isolated
               | incidents in the beginning that were heavily publicized
               | by the media but in the end you're at the mercy of the
               | same AI ban bots just like with YouTube, Google or any
               | other big platform so you have the same chance of finding
               | yourself locked out if your behavior trips up the
               | algorithm.
        
               | flohofwoe wrote:
               | I recently created a throwaway FB account for "work
               | stuff", and the amount of spam mail I'm getting now each
               | day from Facebook to "engage" is shocking. Also: I didn't
               | register the account with my real name and a different
               | email address, yet Facebook magically featured out who I
               | am and is sending out invites to the friends on my (long
               | dead) real Facebook account. It's all creepy AF.
        
             | KaiserPro wrote:
             | I've been using a "fake" account.
             | 
             | I don't do anything dodgy with it, and my name is mostly
             | the same as the credit card.
             | 
             | They are much more reluctant to kill a dormant account if
             | you attach it to hardware.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | Since that's a violation of the TOS, you're taking a bit of a
           | risk with that approach
        
       | dukoid wrote:
       | Can I now get a Spaceship "lounge" overlay for my flat in "AR"?
        
         | blensor wrote:
         | Check out Custom Home Mapper on SideQuest. He was experimenting
         | with an "AR" mode back when it still required the menu glitch
         | to activate passthrough
        
       | ericflo wrote:
       | It would have been better if we could've started experimenting
       | with this stuff more than two years ago, but Facebook kept access
       | locked up for their use only. I'm glad they're slowly doling out
       | more access, but the industry is now set back by over two years,
       | and any experimentation will now happen on Facebook's terms. Of
       | course that's all for your protection. Of course it is.
        
       | michaelnik wrote:
       | I hope competitors will deliver similar hardware but with more
       | open ecosystem, check out https://lynx-r.com/!
        
       | jbverschoor wrote:
       | Jittery, I can already feel RSI making a come back.
       | 
       | Still, I'd love to have a bunch of documents open, just like
       | paper
        
       | istorical wrote:
       | I have experimented with cross-fading different 3D scenes /
       | stereo 180 videos into each other and it's truly something that
       | cannot be explained without experiencing it. Closest thing I've
       | experienced to like, magic, since the first time I saw an
       | automatic door at a grocery store as a child or my first time in
       | an airplane.
        
       | GuB-42 wrote:
       | I am interested by the technical aspect. Pass-through is not as
       | obvious than sending the camera feed to the screen.
       | 
       | If the field of view, eye position, focus and latency are not
       | right, the world will feel wrong. If it is way off, you are as
       | good as blind. Close range focus is already a lost cause on
       | current gen headsets. I don't know how tolerable the other
       | factors are and how Oculus dealt with the problem.
        
       | drcode wrote:
       | I find wearing a VR helmet for a significant period of time to be
       | mood-depressing. I think with AR the problem would go away, but I
       | find it unlikely that passthrough AR will be much better than VR.
       | I will try these new demos when I have a chance.
        
       | dalbasal wrote:
       | The social aspects are pretty interesting. I game occasionally
       | with my brother, who lives on a different continent... Chatting
       | about life while shooting zombies or whatnot.
       | 
       | One of the best parts is hanging out, post game. Basic avatars
       | and directional sound make the whole thing feel very different to
       | video chat. A real world setting would give this a different
       | dimension.
       | 
       | VR is in an interesting place. This initial hype has died down a
       | little. Users no longer haul their headsets around for show and
       | tell. Meanwhile, a bonafide juvenile market for hardware and
       | content exists and incrementalism gets to do its thing.
       | 
       | Honestly, I'm kind of surprised there aren't more entrants into
       | the hardware space.
        
       | forgingahead wrote:
       | Very cool innovations coming out from the Oculus team. I just
       | wish the headset was more comfortable! I get immense pain on my
       | face after using it for a few minutes, it seems to be a trade-off
       | between fitting it snugly or having it slosh around my head.
       | 
       | The tech is great but the comfort is poor. Surprising because the
       | Rift is decently wearable. Maybe Oculus 3 will have some strong
       | improvements with the comfort level.
        
         | shock-value wrote:
         | I got a third party halo strap for my Quest 2 and it vastly
         | increased comfort and ability to wear it for extended periods
         | without fatigue. Might want to look into that.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | The strap upgrade is totally worth it. Much easier to find a
         | comfortable, good fit.
        
         | mustacheemperor wrote:
         | I can second all these criticisms, as well as the advice below
         | to upgrade the strap. I use the elite strap with the VRCover
         | face pad and strap pad and it's a massive improvement. I also
         | find the VRWave strap pad makes it easy for me to run my link
         | cable through the strap and behind my head which is also a
         | comfort improvement in some games.
        
         | barcoder wrote:
         | All my friends with the quest upgraded the strap. Oculus doing
         | a crappy upsale, just a cost you need to swallow
        
       | skinkestek wrote:
       | this page was definitely not GDPR compliant.
       | 
       | I just gave up.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | What did they do that wasn't compliant?
        
           | skinkestek wrote:
           | Opt out instead of opt in.
           | 
           | Opt out next to impossible.
        
       | yellowfish wrote:
       | Neat, but I still wouldn't touch oculus with a 10 foot pole
       | especially when cameras in my home are invovled
        
         | baby wrote:
         | Ah, that comment again
        
           | yellowfish wrote:
           | I don't see how it's a weird opinion, I'm also speaking for
           | myself others are free to enjoy the platform if they want I
           | don't care
        
             | DashAnimal wrote:
             | No your opinion isn't weird. I agree with you in fact. But
             | we also dont need to share every opinion always (see:
             | "Inside" by Bo Burnham).
             | 
             | Obviously some people like this technology and are happy to
             | trade the choice of using their FB account, nor does your
             | comment contribute any discussion to this cool feature or
             | tie it back to the privacy discussion in any meaningful
             | way. It might be worth letting people just enjoy that news.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Remember the wars between VHS and BetaMax, and VHS won because
         | (supposedly) it allowed porn?
         | 
         | Well, now we could see the same thing happening. Oculus doesn't
         | allow porn (because who in their right minds would watch it
         | with their own personal Facebook ID tied to it, with cameras
         | running and connected to the internet?). But a competitor that
         | can dethrone Oculus isn't yet on the horizon. Where is our
         | "VHS"?
         | 
         | This isn't a complaint. Just an observation :)
        
           | felipemnoa wrote:
           | >>because who in their right minds would watch it with their
           | own personal Facebook ID tied to it, with cameras running and
           | connected to the internet?
           | 
           | I'm willing to bet that a sizable portion of the population
           | would watch porn on this device even after you explain this
           | to them.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | I sizable portion already do
        
           | psyc wrote:
           | You must mean interactive porn on the official store? Because
           | there are several players on the official store, plus the
           | browser, that play porn fine.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | I think you didn't read the entire comment.
        
               | psyc wrote:
               | I did. Still don't know what you mean.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-24 23:00 UTC)