[HN Gopher] Mark Zuckerberg says Facebook will turn into a 'meta...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mark Zuckerberg says Facebook will turn into a 'metaverse'
        
       Author : Choc13
       Score  : 145 points
       Date   : 2021-07-23 14:07 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | peanut_worm wrote:
       | Who is this announcement supposed to appeal to other than
       | shareholders
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > Who is this announcement supposed to appeal to other than
         | shareholders
         | 
         | Who matters besides the shareholders? /s
        
         | nly wrote:
         | To be fair, given that FB are the 4th biggest company in the
         | S&P 500, almost everyone on this site is probably a shareholder
         | through their retirement plan.
        
           | mint2 wrote:
           | This is true. It's also unpleasant. At Every paycheck nearly
           | everyone with a 401k is helping zuck.
        
       | bttrfl wrote:
       | It's an excellent opportunity to remind everyone about a truly
       | great book by Lem: "The Futurological Congress" [0] and its
       | interesting movie adaptation "The Congress" [1].
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Congress_(2013_film)
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | metaverse? does this mean in the real world we can get some
       | nuclear powered robotic guard dogs, and portable beta-test linear
       | accelerator miniguns?
        
       | flenserboy wrote:
       | Glad for my trusty HOSTS file.
        
       | bsenftner wrote:
       | Our species needs to be more mature for a Metaverse not to be a
       | wholesale rape of all one's data and everything one does.
       | Facebook, Google, E.A., Apple or NASA... it don't matter, the
       | problem is us humans and how we treat one another at scale.
        
       | IceHegel wrote:
       | The "metaverse" is scam. Talking about it is just a way signal
       | that you're a lord not a serf, i.e. "I can get a girlfriend, but
       | most can't and they'll use the metaverse to drown their sorrows."
       | 
       | Facebook should make something they themselves want. I want an
       | iPod not a VR concert.
        
       | DethNinja wrote:
       | Metaverse seems like the new buzzword for the VC companies.
       | Nowadays everyone is building metaverse type games just because
       | of Roblox but reality is it is a limited market with high
       | competition and only few players are interested about such games.
        
         | CodeGlitch wrote:
         | Seems there could be a business for corporate style services
         | within a meta verse now that more people are working remotely.
         | Think meetings, conferences, etc. I know second Life did this
         | before all the degenerates moved in...
        
           | astlouis44 wrote:
           | check out
           | 
           | https://vrland.io
        
             | CodeGlitch wrote:
             | Hey that even worked on my mobile phone. Cool tech demo.
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | Makes me wonder if Microsoft is missing the boat with not doing
         | more with Minecraft. Metacraft?
        
         | thom wrote:
         | Yet again it's the old jwz point of people focusing on the
         | irrelevant tech details of why something's successful. Roblox
         | isn't successful because it's a 'metaverse', it's successful
         | because it's got a crapload of games that shut my kids up.
        
           | thom wrote:
           | Okay maybe I'm getting my software think pieces backwards and
           | it's this that is more relevant:
           | 
           | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/04/21/dont-let-
           | architect...
           | 
           | And not:
           | 
           | https://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html
        
       | machinehermiter wrote:
       | The killer app of VR has always been virtual sex. We have made no
       | progress towards this.
       | 
       | You can't do reality with just sight and sound. I suspect a 100
       | years from now people will look at us talking about the metaverse
       | and virtual reality with any kind of headset as ridiculous as the
       | old videos of people flapping wings attempting to fly. It just
       | doesn't work.
        
       | SavantIdiot wrote:
       | Does he really believe his own bullshit? I mean, I realize FB is
       | literally the internet in some countries, but that's because they
       | are essentially the only water in the desert so to speak. FB
       | needs competition, badly.
        
         | arodyginc wrote:
         | In which countries FB is the only Internet?
        
           | axaxs wrote:
           | There are a ton. It's weird, because they use FB differently
           | than a lot of people. It really is the 'internet'. Pirated
           | movies and all.
        
           | SavantIdiot wrote:
           | https://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-
           | id...
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/01/facebook-
           | free-...
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/27/facebook-.
           | ..
        
           | djoo wrote:
           | In some African countries, Facebook is free via Mobile Data
           | (also Wikipedia).
           | 
           | Therefore, it becomes the "only" Internet.
           | 
           | They even have cases of piracy movies being shared/available
           | within theses sites.
        
             | zekrioca wrote:
             | This is so prevalent that there are many study groups on
             | facebook just because of that: it is the only place they
             | can "freely" exchange ideas, and voluntaries from other
             | countries (without these limitations) help by copying and
             | pasting info and documents so others can 'freely' download
             | it.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Facebook does have competition. Unfortunately, these mainland
         | China based competitors use the same or even worse tactics and
         | policies as Facebook.
        
       | poidos wrote:
       | Well, not one I'll be in.
        
       | novok wrote:
       | More like "The surveillanceverse" IMO
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | Sounds like Zuckerberg is getting high off of his own fumes. This
       | is the 2021 version of "Facebook is changing the world!"
       | 
       | Also, Second Life did it first in 2006.
        
         | tharne wrote:
         | > "Facebook is changing the world!"
         | 
         | Zuck wasn't wrong when he said this, I just don't think the
         | change he had in mind was giving a platform to anti-vax
         | conspiracy theorists and helping Russian troll farms influence
         | U.S. elections. That is one way to change the world though.
        
           | zh3 wrote:
           | Let's not forget Myanmar.
        
             | heavyset_go wrote:
             | A reference for those who don't know about it:
             | https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-
             | facebo...
        
         | seanalexander wrote:
         | Second Life was awesome, but it owes a ton of intellectual debt
         | to The Palace from the 1990s, which had a robust and functional
         | version of FORTH built into it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | metalliqaz wrote:
       | So "Ready Player One" with Zuck in charge? No thank you.
        
         | anoncow wrote:
         | With Oculus, IG and FB, they seem pretty close to being the
         | ones to pull it off.
        
           | ralertomo wrote:
           | I think having IG and FB is a liability for them. Imo Epic
           | Games is making better choices right now with their
           | acquisitions and marketing strats. Seems more appealing to
           | me.
        
             | astlouis44 wrote:
             | Facebook will likely try to acquire Epic in the near
             | future.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | Why Epic as opposed to any other forward-thinking gaming
               | company like Valve? Sort of random.
        
             | chaostheory wrote:
             | Epic doesn't even have a software platform for VR yet.
             | It'll be awhile before they even catch up to Valve.
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | Those liabilities will bring in millions of people. Epic
             | wished they had those platforms to onramp users.
        
           | dingosity wrote:
           | it always seemed weird to me that fb, that sort of defined
           | "casual interaction", was doubling down on such an immersive
           | technology. the "metaverse" described by Rosedale & Ondrejka
           | was nothing if not immersive.
        
         | account-5 wrote:
         | Facebook is IOI. There are no Gregarious Games in reality.
        
           | metalliqaz wrote:
           | yes that was my point. "zuck in charge" would be like if IOI
           | won the contest
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | By the time the film came out it was already a _dated_ future.
        
         | earthplus wrote:
         | I think that's their goal, they issued a copy of the book to
         | each Oculus employee.
         | 
         | Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/oculus-gives-all-its-
         | employe...
        
           | salt-thrower wrote:
           | Wasn't that book supposed to be a bit of a
           | dystopian/cautionary tale against VR? I thought the
           | resolution of the character arc was that the guy decides to
           | take the headset off and engage in the real world more.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | It's amazing how many different cautionary tales were
             | eventually adopted as how-to manuals.
        
       | dancronin wrote:
       | Fuck off Mark.
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | ITS NOT META IF IT'S CLOSED. It's only a constellation of
       | services.
       | 
       | Facebook is welcome to become whatever Zuckerverse it can be.
       | 
       | But they do not seem to have the play-well-with-others ability to
       | encompass multiple different universes of possibility. They will
       | remain distinctly within their own singular sphere, best I can
       | tell.
        
       | cwkoss wrote:
       | Looking forward to logging in once and drawing as many dicks as
       | possible in zucks metaverse before I'm banned.
        
         | canttestthis wrote:
         | There's something about FB threads that really attracts Reddit-
         | style comments.
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | Reminds me of this CNET interview[1] on Second Life in 2006,
         | where pretty much exactly this happened.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.engadget.com/2006-12-20-second-life-
         | millionaire-...
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | This sort of disruption will probably be considered virtual
         | terrorism one day... Imagine the CIA torturing some poor soul
         | over dicks in the zuckerverse.
        
           | CyanBird wrote:
           | Given that Israel already called a "new type of terrorism"
           | when an ice cream company didn't feel comfortable working on
           | the country anymore, then I'd say that we are not far from
           | that at all
        
             | nebula8804 wrote:
             | They are just mad that that their claim to fame in the
             | consumer packaged product industry is a company that puts
             | bubbles in water and not something better like delicious
             | ice cream. /s
        
             | zh3 wrote:
             | One has to tread very carefully when mentioning Israel in
             | any context.
             | 
             | That said, I couldn't follow the logic of that; how exactly
             | is it that Ben and Jerry's deciding not to sell ice cream
             | in the occupied palestinian territories a "new type of
             | terrorism" against Israel? (esp. as the B&J factory is
             | apparently in Israel).
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Basically Israel is the real life embodiment of
               | Seinfeld's uncle Leo who says anything and everything is
               | antisemitism except it's also terrorism.
               | 
               | These labels have existing very negative meanings that
               | they would both like to court with their own behavior and
               | accuse others of thoughtlessly.
               | 
               | I feel like that singular statement is like watching an
               | entire country jump the shark and that we ought to stop
               | taking their phone calls. They have absolutely nothing we
               | need and they don't require our help to survive anymore.
        
               | cwkoss wrote:
               | Anti BDS laws in US states are so baffling to me. The
               | idea that American citizens could be criminalized for
               | choosing not to do business or invest in a foreign power
               | would be laughable if so many current politicians weren't
               | supporting it.
        
           | rglover wrote:
           | "Alright folks, the Dickburglar is at it again. Battle
           | stations."
        
           | o_m wrote:
           | No need to torture people, since they will know everything
           | about you and what you have done at all times.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | Not if it's a new account.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | New account? That's so 2020. Your account will be the one
               | issued to you at birth that happens to have your SSN as
               | your username.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | Does the CIA torture people that draw dicks in the real
           | world?
        
             | slim wrote:
             | Of course. Undercover agents within ISIS pretending to be
             | morality police.
        
             | chrsig wrote:
             | Probably?
        
       | kumarvvr wrote:
       | Man whatever that means, I am sure nothing good will come of it.
       | Society is not ready for all access, all communication, mass,
       | thought influencing media controlled by an ethically ambiguous
       | mega corporation.
        
       | TeeMassive wrote:
       | That's one hell of a way to brand "extending the tentacles of our
       | monopoly into your daily life".
       | 
       | > Mr Zuckerberg has made such comments before, hypothesizing that
       | humans should "be teleporting, not transporting ourselves" into
       | various environments through virtual and mixed reality
       | environments.
       | 
       | "You will live in a pod and you will be happy with VR"
        
         | hypertele-Xii wrote:
         | Oh I'd love to live in a VR pod, just not a Facebook brand one.
        
       | badkitty99 wrote:
       | Whatever they need to do to keep things cha chinging, it will
       | never end
        
       | frazbin wrote:
       | Alternate title: "Mark Zuckerberk says Facebook will own the
       | 'metaverse'."
        
       | salt-thrower wrote:
       | I for one can't wait for people to start having AR-enabled QAnon
       | propaganda beamed directly into their homes!
       | 
       | Every time Facebook has a press conference to the tune of "what
       | if we were even more immersive" it strikes me as incredibly tone
       | deaf given how many problems they engender already just with a
       | regular web app.
        
       | ssklash wrote:
       | Another way of saying this is "Ad Company wants to be present
       | during every part of your life (and all those pesky non-Ad
       | Company users they can't currently reach), so they can surveil
       | and monetize your entire existence, finally completing the
       | panopticon."
        
       | jakesnakelou wrote:
       | it's equal parts vision, equal parts philanthropy.
        
         | 52-6F-62 wrote:
         | There's no question that there's some kind of vision involved,
         | but what part of this is conceivably philanthropic? FB and
         | Zuckerberg have an immediate vested interest in capturing the
         | maximum of attention spans of these people.
        
       | digitcatphd wrote:
       | A rudimentary version of this already exists within Oculus.
        
       | beezischillin wrote:
       | After having tried out PSVR, which I found kind of awful, so much
       | so that the smartphone VR seemed like a step forward compared to
       | it, I was highly skeptical of the whole ordeal. Then my friend
       | showed me Microsoft's Mixed reality headsets and I was on board
       | with some slight misgivings about the feasibility of using it for
       | longer than 20 minutes at a time, plus it still came with a bit
       | of a hassle.
       | 
       | This year I purchased a Quest2 after reading through the feature
       | list and I was honestly really impressed. Oculus managed to
       | create a truly viable mass market capable rendition of a VR
       | headset. Unfortunately Facebook itself is kind of the biggest
       | enemy when it comes to their own product. From what I've seen as
       | a general response and my personal experience also is that people
       | would like a VR headset to experience VR stuff; games, videos,
       | the likes. Facebook would like you to strap a Facebook machine to
       | your face and watch ads, hyper-targeted to you with as much
       | highly personal information used to target as possible. And
       | that's where the disconnect seems to be. Because Oculus is
       | clearly capable of making VR happen as a viable platform - the
       | question really is: will Facebook let them?
        
       | tengbretson wrote:
       | I don't think this college drop-out guy knows what he's talking
       | about.
        
         | munk-a wrote:
         | I loathe Facebook - but trying to say Mark Zuckerberg is an
         | idiot at this point is pretty hilarious. A bachelor's level of
         | academic training is essentially irrelevant by the time you're
         | thirty - a master's by the time you're thirty five. Academic
         | credentials are a very silly thing to get out the rulers over.
        
           | tengbretson wrote:
           | If he's so clever then why hasn't he figured out how to have
           | neighbors that don't hate him?
        
             | recursive wrote:
             | Because he was clever enough to realize that it didn't
             | matter.
        
       | dschu wrote:
       | Deleted my Facebook account along with Instagram early this year
       | because of obvious reasons.
       | 
       | Won't be a part of this metaverse and I'm very happy about that.
        
       | mnd999 wrote:
       | This is just AOL or Compuserve again. Zuck wants you to use
       | Facebook for everything without the need for any other site.
        
       | madeofpalk wrote:
       | Maybe the original interview is a better link
       | https://www.theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-c... ?
        
       | uniqueid wrote:
       | Too bad Dante's not around to add a tenth ring of hell to the
       | Inferno.
        
       | ezconnect wrote:
       | My fake FB account just shows TikTok videos and left wing
       | propaganda and its even paid post promotion. I don't know how the
       | advertisers make money off of that.
        
         | ipaddr wrote:
         | Propaganda ads don't need to make a sale. Slowly changing your
         | opinion on something is the payoff.
        
       | p_l wrote:
       | You know, so many comments, and nobody had mentioned Snow Crash
       | yet?
       | 
       | I am disappoint, HN ;)
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | Personally, I didn't want to soil Snow Crash by associating it
         | in any way with Facebook.
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | Why? Isn't Snow Crash is a dystopian cyberpunk novel where
           | corporations have superseded governments?
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | That's a good point. I suppose that Snow Crash is only a
             | fun story as long as it's fictional. If reality comes too
             | close to it, it would stop being fun and start being
             | depressing.
        
         | asah wrote:
         | Sounds more like the corporate dystopia of Ready Player One...
        
           | CodeGlitch wrote:
           | We done mention that movie around here...
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | Mark "Da5id" Zuckerberg. Mind the cheesy bitmapped scrolls,
       | please!
        
       | IgorPartola wrote:
       | Imagine being able to say random stuff like this and getting rich
       | off it as the stock market reacts. Must be nice.
        
         | titzer wrote:
         | In the "post-scarcity" world of 2021, tweets by influencers are
         | Porsches and offhand comments by Zucks are a few lifetimes of
         | earnings of the average underling.
        
         | mint2 wrote:
         | Index funds are so convenient but Facebook is in the top 10
         | holdings of Fidelity's 500. It makes me very uneasy. Is there
         | an index fund that one can opt out of certain companies.
         | 
         | And reading through the companies on several of the main
         | fidelity index funds, there's too many fissile fuel and tobacco
         | companies for my taste.
        
           | IgorPartola wrote:
           | Sure, there are lots of industry and region specific funds.
           | You can go for a small cap fund, a foreign fund, a developing
           | markets fund, a real estate fund, a heavy industries fund,
           | retail, food, whatever.
        
           | dwighttk wrote:
           | I mean. It'd be a little work but you could just DIY an index
           | fund. Call it yourname499
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | I can't think of anything I'd want to use less.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Facebook has so far tried, and failed, to do this. Twice.
       | 
       | First was Facebook Spaces. Opened 2017, closed 2019. This was a
       | VR world. Not a very good one. It was mostly a 3D approach to a
       | desktop.[1] You could hand other people flat pictures. Sharing!
       | Total flop.
       | 
       | Second was Facebook Horizon. Opened 2020, still running, but not
       | getting much attention. It's a 3D cartoon level VR world. Works
       | OK, not very interesting or pretty. Big emphasis on "safety",
       | which means no sex. Avatars have no legs; nothing below the
       | waistline. Plus there's a panic button which puts you in a
       | "personal safe zone", where you're in a bubble until Security
       | gets there to rescue you from whomever is annoying you. While
       | it's still running, Facebook doesn't mention Horizon any more.
       | 
       | Zuckerberg's vision is probably more like that video I've linked
       | before, "Hypereality". The real world, with overlays from
       | augmented reality. Overlays of more ads.
       | 
       | [1] https://youtu.be/_kGRpSd4vnc
       | 
       | [2] https://youtu.be/Uf_9J_EdzZw
       | 
       | [3] https://youtu.be/YJg02ivYzSs
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | VR/AR is such a new paradigm for interacting with computers I
         | think that its inevitable companies will make many failures
         | before finding the apps and hardware that clicks with
         | customers.
         | 
         | In 2017, we had only had mainstream non-beta VR headset
         | hardware in the marketplace since 2016 (original consumer Rift,
         | HTC Vive), lets not forget the 20 years of PDA
         | hardware/software attempts we lived through before the
         | mainstream smartphone designs we all use appeared in 2007. I
         | expect a very similar arc will be followed for VR/AR,
         | especially as the interaction model is so different from screen
         | based.
         | 
         | I'm happy to see some development out "in the open", and
         | wouldn't be so quick to criticize small project flops; VR/AR
         | needs to begin somewhere. Zuck isn't trying to pretend VR/AR is
         | ready for primetime either yet, he's made it clear he wants to
         | be in a very strong position when/if the market does heavily
         | move to VR/AR hardware, which he obviously believes strongly it
         | will over time.
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | Notably, I think eye contact is a killer app for VR and none
           | of the headsets can do it yet.
           | 
           | Facebook is smart to be in there doing experiments and
           | failing though. That's table stakes for having a shot at
           | winning the competition.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | _VR /AR is such a new paradigm for interacting with
           | computers._
           | 
           | Not really. I tried Jaron Lainer's original VR rig back in
           | the 1980s. The Autodesk system from the 1980s. The W
           | Industries system ... the HTC Vibe. The Microsoft HoloLens.
           | There's been progress, but usability really hasn't improved
           | all that much.
           | 
           | You can shoot at people. That works fine. You can sort of use
           | swords. Everything else, not so much. That's why Beat Saber
           | is still the most successful VR game.
           | 
           | Some Autodesk people once thought that VR would make it
           | easier to use CAD, because selection in 3D with a mouse is
           | such a pain. Didn't work out, and 3D selection with a mouse
           | got much better.
           | 
           | If anybody gets this right, it might be NVidia Omniverse.
           | That's an attempt to do for 3D what shared text editors do
           | for text documents.
        
             | andybak wrote:
             | 3d selection in VR is better. Just give it a hundredth of
             | the investment we've given desktop UI
        
             | baby wrote:
             | Oh my, reading your comment I couldn't stop myself from
             | laughing. I too tried the old VR headsets, played doom on
             | one and got a massive headache. I thought VR was bad and
             | stupid after that. Then I tried the HTC Vive and holy molly
             | I almost cried after trying it. Now I own an Oculus Quest
             | II and... it is the future. I'm sorry but this is it.
        
             | h2odragon wrote:
             | The Autodesk system ran on what, a pair of RS/6000? I got
             | to chat with some of their guys showing that off at a trade
             | show in off moments over a few days; they were great at
             | running the demo but were umm... unenthused about the
             | prospects of anyone keeping the system running for any time
             | without high grade help.
        
         | astlouis44 wrote:
         | Check out vrland! It's a social 3D/VR metaverse platform on the
         | web. Decentralized and works everywhere including VR headsets
         | via WebXR.
         | 
         | Link to the platform: https://vrland.io/lobby
         | 
         | Link to our Discord: https://discord.gg/cNfG834
        
         | Bombthecat wrote:
         | I thought horizon is still in beta?
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | It's been stuck in beta for a year now. More likely to shut
           | down than advance from beta.
        
           | Ajedi32 wrote:
           | Invite-only closed beta. That's probably why GP hasn't heard
           | about it in a while.
        
             | rubicon33 wrote:
             | I'm in the beta and I have played Horizon. I'm not
             | impressed at all. The worlds are tiny and uninteresting.
             | The color pallet is cartoony. Audio has enough delay still
             | to be unnatural (a problem with cell phones too, btw, but
             | made much worse when the person is standing in front of
             | you).
             | 
             | Their world building tools are kind of interesting, and
             | surely were difficult to implement, but lack any real
             | purpose or traction.
             | 
             | All in all, I'm surprised more by how basic and bad Horizon
             | is than I am by how good it is. Its been in development for
             | a long time, and by now, I expected a lot more.
        
               | astlouis44 wrote:
               | Horizon is a terrible experience and won't be the MVP of
               | the metaverse even when it's launched publicly out of
               | beta.
               | 
               | Try vrland.io instead, it's a web-based social 3D/VR
               | platform that runs everywhere with a browser which
               | includes WebXR.
               | 
               | Link: https://vrland.io/lobby
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | I love Hyperreality, and I can't wait for it to come true. I
         | think my world would be much better. Look at how cool it is!
         | 
         | I get that it's not for everyone, but sign me up.
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | You can't wait for there to be even more ads in this world?
           | You want them to physically follow you around? You can't wait
           | for corporations to see your every move? No thanks.
           | 
           | We need to fix our current internet before allowing it to
           | permeate our lives any deeper.
        
             | Adrig wrote:
             | Meh, I'll use the Mozilla VR OS with uBlock 2040 on it
        
               | astlouis44 wrote:
               | Try vrland instead!
               | 
               | https://vrland.io/lobby
        
               | shrimp_emoji wrote:
               | Although the present shows us that most people will be
               | happy corpo serfs. : p
        
               | tablespoon wrote:
               | > Meh, I'll use the Mozilla VR OS with uBlock 2040 on it
               | 
               | Adblockers may not work so well in the future, when
               | everything's a binary blob of Web Assembly.
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | Honestly I just want the cute little doggo to follow me
             | around while I'm shopping. I don't care if it's trying to
             | get me to buy things.
        
           | mrighele wrote:
           | I you talk about hyperreality I think you were referring to
           | this (1) video, but given the downvotes you received I guess
           | not many people got the reference
           | 
           | (1) https://youtu.be/YJg02ivYzSs
        
         | pteraspidomorph wrote:
         | > Avatars have no legs; nothing below the waistline
         | 
         | This is the biggest mistake a lot of VR developers made and are
         | still making. People want to look cool in VR. They don't want
         | to look like flying blobs (unless that's their actual chosen
         | aesthetic). This affects their platform and purchase choices to
         | a degree that many don't seem to fully comprehend.
        
           | andybak wrote:
           | My feeling is that no IK is better than bad IK. I'd rather be
           | a groovy head and hands than a creepy full body.
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > Plus there's a panic button which puts you in a "personal
         | safe zone", where you're in a bubble until Security gets there
         | to rescue you from whomever is annoying you. While it's still
         | running, Facebook doesn't mention Horizon any more.
         | 
         | > [2] https://youtu.be/Uf_9J_EdzZw
         | 
         | That video is kind of amazing. It's all people of color, until
         | one white guy shows up and immediately gets blocked.
         | 
         | Also, all their safety team can do is make a recording and
         | submit a report for further review? That seems stupid and
         | pointless.
        
           | tkiolp4 wrote:
           | Umm, I'm not American so bear with me:
           | 
           | - the lady in blue, she looks like a white person after
           | having sun in the beach
           | 
           | - the guy with purple tshirt, he looks readhead, so white
           | 
           | - the guy with white hat and black hoodie looks south
           | American
           | 
           | - the guy with glasses and red jacket, looks black
           | 
           | - the ladies with white tshirt, look white
           | 
           | - the lady with glasses and brown tshirt, looks white
           | 
           | - the guy with grey hat and orange hoodie looks white
        
           | tomashertus wrote:
           | That's amazing, first think which came to my mind was:
           | 
           | > I can go to any time--in the past. I don't want to go to
           | the future and find out what happens to white people because
           | we're gonna pay hard for this shit, you got to know that.
           | We're not going to just fall from number one to two. They're
           | gonna hold us down and fuck us in the ass forever. And we
           | totally deserve it. But for now, wheeeeeeee!
           | 
           | Source: https://genius.com/Louis-ck-on-being-white-annotated
        
       | seanalexander wrote:
       | Just came here to say Snow Crash deserves way better than this.
        
       | Choc13 wrote:
       | >> "A good vision for the metaverse is not one that a specific
       | company builds, but it has to have the sense of interoperability
       | and portability", Mr Zuckerberg said, adding that there should be
       | protocols like the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) internet
       | standards for defining how experiences will be built.
       | 
       | Except defined by Facebook, so not really anything like W3C.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | Are there any facebook products that have "the sense of
         | interoperability and portability"? Seems like most of their
         | properties strive for the opposite...
        
           | chaostheory wrote:
           | Their Quest headsets still work fine with Steam... for now
        
             | cwkoss wrote:
             | I got a quest 1 for as a gift a couple years back. They
             | frequently automatically installed updates that break mods.
             | Now, my headset is currently bricked and I need to figure
             | out how to factory reset or something to fix it.
             | 
             | Maybe its just indifference, but given facebook's history
             | it feels intentional.
        
               | chaostheory wrote:
               | The quest is a console. If you want to use mods without
               | too many issues, you need to use a PC for VR.
        
               | cwkoss wrote:
               | Yep, my friend has the Index which I really like. Leaning
               | that direction for my next VR system.
        
           | meiraleal wrote:
           | Yep, but they have enough researchers to figure out that this
           | will not work forever and web3.0 will eat them.
        
         | ethbr0 wrote:
         | Top reason Facebook won't succeed here: they're too greedy.
         | 
         | Say what you want about MS and Google, but they left a _lot_ of
         | money and opportunity on the table for others.
         | 
         | Facebook... notsomuch.
         | 
         | Which works fine when you _start_ with a first mover platform.
         | But doesn 't work nearly as well when trying to grow a platform
         | from nothing.
         | 
         | Here's hoping the effort crashes into the ground.
        
           | ComodoHacker wrote:
           | When the other option is being forcibly broken up as a
           | monopoly, your greed would advise you to lose less rather
           | than more.
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | Hyperscale tech was smart in the way they designed their
             | business to wrap around existing anti-trust law (via
             | creating captive markets inside of larger markets and
             | spanning multiple market categories).
             | 
             | We'll see if they're smart enough to outflank Antitrust
             | 2.0, or if they make the same mistakes as Big Railroad /
             | Oil -- assuming they're more powerful than government
             | and/or believing their own PR about how they're not a
             | monopoly.
        
         | dingosity wrote:
         | oh man. there have been at least three efforts i'm aware of to
         | standardize the metaverse in the last 30 years. none of them
         | really went anywhere. fb was invited to participate in the last
         | one i paid attention to (VWRAP), but they politely declined.
        
           | cratermoon wrote:
           | And now they'll take all the ideas from the previous efforts,
           | pick the ones that will make them the most profit (revenue -
           | development costs) and tada a new propriety, privately
           | controlled ecosystem that slowly replaces whatever is out
           | there. See, for example, Open Graph replacing Dublin Core.
        
             | selfhoster11 wrote:
             | How is Open Graph replacing Dublin Core? I'm not familiar
             | with the space.
        
       | Vrondi wrote:
       | I was thinking of buying an Occulus Rift, and Facebook buying
       | Occulus is the thing that guaranteed I'd never buy one. People
       | said it wouldn't be a problem, and now you must log in with a
       | Facebook account in order to use your Occulus hardware. No way.
        
         | baby wrote:
         | I advise creating a dummy account and buying the oculus quest 2
         | instead. Worth it :)
        
         | CodeGlitch wrote:
         | It made me sad too especially when John Carmack was also
         | dragged* into it.
         | 
         | * Not sure how he feels about it, but I get the impression he's
         | there for the pay cheque to work on more interesting side
         | projects like AI.
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | I feel "metaverse" is turning into a buzzword like "AI" or "Big
       | Data".
       | 
       | To me the "metaverse" is always there at least since the
       | introduction of affordable personal computer in the late 70s. In
       | the 80s you already got a "metaverse" with the computer at center
       | surrounded by BBS/FTP/etc.
        
       | tomjen3 wrote:
       | Let us see about the rumors that Apple will launch Apple glasses
       | this fall. If I wanted AR I much rather have it from Tim Cook
       | than Zuckerberg, and Apple knows how to build hardware.
       | Zuckerberg does not.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | I can't edit the above comment, so I am adding this as a reply.
         | 
         | I had completely forgot that Facebook had a VR headset. When I
         | said they didn't know how the built hardware I was thinking of
         | their attempt to build an Android phone.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Like you, I will probably buy Apple's new AR headset. Both of
         | us are privileged enough to be able to easily afford it, but
         | can most people do the same?
         | 
         | Before you dismiss Facebook's hardware effort, you should
         | actually try the Oculus Quest 2. At $299 for a full, standalone
         | VR system; imo it even beats some PCVR VR headsets on more than
         | just price.
        
         | mepian wrote:
         | The Oculus Quest 2 is really solid hardware, especially
         | considering its low price.
        
           | goatlover wrote:
           | It really is for the price and mobility.
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | If Facebook is to build this sort thing, sure why not, we can
       | choose not to use it.
       | 
       | Where Zuckerberg goes of the rails for me is: " I think it's
       | about being engaged more naturally."
       | 
       | If he truly believe that, he should start by fixing Facebooks
       | algorithms. There is nothing natural about the way people
       | interact with Facebook anymore. Initially it was keeping up with
       | friends, family old work buddies and so on. As Facebook tweaked
       | the snot out out of their algorithms to keep people "engaged",
       | everything natural went right out the window.
       | 
       | Facebook should built whatever they believe will keep them
       | relevant, just to lie about the motives or use deceptive language
       | to make it sound like something it's ostensibly not.
        
       | cblconfederate wrote:
       | > probably going to resemble some kind of a hybrid between the
       | social platforms that we see today, but an environment where
       | you're embodied in it
       | 
       | Opensimulator (the open source version of second life server)
       | already exists, it is decentralized, self-hosted, and a few
       | thousands of people re already living in it :
       | https://opensimworld.com/
        
         | Niglodonicus wrote:
         | Second life is a truly sad consequence of late-stage
         | capitalism.
        
         | Niglodonicus wrote:
         | Serious question regarding my flagged comment in this thread
         | since I'm new here:
         | 
         | What's wrong with it? Is it not ok to express that I feel a
         | phenomenon is sad? Did I need to go into more detail about how
         | the phenomenon arose? Is criticism of capitalism or our
         | societal systems unacceptable?
        
           | tantalor wrote:
           | Referring to "late-stage capitalism" sounds like sarcasm or
           | shallow dismissal.
           | 
           | What does "sad" mean in this context?
        
           | nanidin wrote:
           | My thoughts: your username starts the same as a very
           | culturally sensitive word for USA. You come in and leave a
           | short comment that does not really contribute to the
           | discussion, just brings about negativity. That's kind of like
           | running up to someone and punching them, then running away.
           | Not cool - you should engage in rational discourse rather
           | than snipe. Fight, but fight fairly. You have a green
           | username (new)?
           | 
           | People see things like this and think, "Troll", hence the
           | flagging. I did not flag or downvote in this case, as I came
           | across it hours after it already occurred.
        
           | vineyardmike wrote:
           | Its just dismissive and rude sounding.
           | 
           | Why is it sad? Surely the people who built it and use it
           | think its cool. As others said "late stage capitalism" is a
           | very opinionated and loaded phrase.
           | 
           | Your comment is very negative, without inviting room for
           | critique or feedback. It does not open a discussion, just
           | judgement and derision.
        
             | Niglodonicus wrote:
             | I can see how it's a bit short and simply makes a claim
             | without going into more detail, but clearly there is enough
             | there for people to be able to reply and disagree and why
             | (as the few of you replying to this have). I just don't see
             | the point of flagging such a comment so that it can no
             | longer be replied to. I think it's unfortunate that
             | downvoting and reporting seem to be merged together on this
             | site, since those are separate functions (downvote- this is
             | a shitty take or I strongly disagree, report- this is a
             | garbage rule-breaking post that needs to be removed).
             | 
             | As for why SL is sad, is because it offers a shallow
             | alternative to RL for people for whom RL is either
             | unaccessible due to economic conditions (hence the late-
             | stage capitalism thing) or for those who just want to
             | escape it altogether (but replace it with a frankly
             | shittier version, as opposed to some completely different
             | fantasy world where you can do stuff you couldn't do in RL
             | such as the aforementioned WoW). Not to mention that vast
             | swathes of the userbase are creepy perverts, but perhaps it
             | is for the best that they've chosen to confine themselves
             | there. Hence, the sum total of this is quite sad imo. In
             | the early stages when it was a fun and novel type of thing
             | and alternatives for similar things were much less
             | widespread, my points don't apply as much, but in 2021,
             | they absolutely do.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | SL was a milestone in what it's trying to do but I'm not
               | all that sure if its intentions are any more crazy or sad
               | than AOL-era chat rooms and online communities- some of
               | which were also graphical. VRML was developed for chat
               | rooms in the late '90s. The only difference with SL is
               | that it was developed later on in history and further
               | along late capitalism, I guess.
        
               | Niglodonicus wrote:
               | I'm not referring to the intentions or what it was/is
               | trying to do, but to the reality of its userbase and how
               | they play the game and live their life. I mean, as a
               | whole gaming tends to be similarly 'sad', but not to as
               | large an extent as SL (in my opinion, of course).
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | The comment's kind of puzzling. Second Life has its own
           | passionate community but was niche even in the mid 2000s when
           | it came out, dwarfed by the MMORPG craze exemplified by World
           | of Warcraft. What's so sad or consequential about Second
           | Life, in comparison? It had its own niche and its own fans
           | and never even became mainstream.
        
         | dwighttk wrote:
         | Mr. Zuckerberg doesn't understand the word "embodied"
        
           | Finnucane wrote:
           | They don't have that on his planet.
        
         | spazx wrote:
         | I love OpenSim so much. I wish it had a bigger community!
        
       | buttholesurfer wrote:
       | So glad I deleted my account years ago. That place is garbage.
        
       | mudlus wrote:
       | Ethereum's vs. FB
       | 
       | The enemy of your enemy is your friend. (Bitcoiner, here)
        
       | lazyeye wrote:
       | A new section needs to be added to ant-trust laws outright
       | banning "metaverses".
        
       | ve55 wrote:
       | I'm surprised how negative the comments here are, even if it is
       | true that 'metaverse' is turning into a pretty silly buzzword. I
       | think there's still coherent concepts defined by it (interfaces
       | becoming much more inline with what humans find natural,
       | integration of VR+AR capabilities, and the 'Internet' becoming
       | more and more 'real life' in general).
       | 
       | Facebook is absolutely one of the best-positioned companies to be
       | able to become a long-term market leader in these areas and has
       | been investing heavily into R&D in all related categories.
       | Although some of us dislike many ways the company operates, this
       | still does seem like a very well thought-out and aggressive long-
       | term mission that is worthy of being pursued, and I'm pretty
       | excited to continue to see innovation in the more difficult areas
       | like AI and VR here.
        
         | grawprog wrote:
         | >the 'Internet' becoming more and more 'real life' in general
         | 
         | >Facebook is absolutely one of the best-positioned companies to
         | be able to become a long-term market leader in these areas
         | 
         | I think the reason for the negativity is possibly because maybe
         | a company that's managed to create a massive platform where
         | reality is massively distorted and manipulated algorithmically
         | to maximize ad revenue and engangement, whatever the quality or
         | lack thereof, should not be a leader in trying to make the
         | internet 'real life' or whatever you want to call having ar/vr
         | avatars that will allow you to participate in the new virtual
         | corporate consumer world.
        
           | after_care wrote:
           | It's simple natural selection that the most engaging social
           | media platforms became the most profitable, influential, and
           | popular. There's no guarantee that VR/AR will have the same
           | selection pressure, and if the tech does have the same
           | selection pressure than whoever wins will be engaging as
           | well.
           | 
           | IMO Facebook creating the metaverse is like Xerox creating
           | the GUI. Most likely the things that made Facebook
           | successfully in social media will not make them as successful
           | in VR/AR and they'll either pivot hard or (more likely) lose
           | their market leader position.
           | 
           | (I'm holding FB stock until their AR offering is announced,
           | and possibly for a few years afterwards but I'm doubtful I'll
           | have their stock in 15 years.)
        
             | baby wrote:
             | That's my worry as well, that they're not capable of
             | capturing the market due to being a software company.
             | But... they have hired like crazy and at this point I'm
             | assuming most people working there have no link whatsoever
             | with fb, so if they own all the experts there's a good
             | chance they'll capture the market. As long as they keep
             | iterating they'll be fine.
        
               | astlouis44 wrote:
               | Check out our social 3D/VR web metaverse platform here:
               | 
               | https://vrland.io/lobby
        
         | bborud wrote:
         | Why are you surprised?
         | 
         | Whenever some form of immersive "universe" under corporate
         | control is described in fiction, it tends to be a fairly
         | dystopian tale. Every so many years VR is going to "finally be
         | here" ... and then it never materializes. Add to that the head
         | of the corporation in question is a hop, skip and a jump away
         | from near Bond-villain status.
         | 
         | It would be remarkable if the gut reaction of most people were
         | not negative. Which makes your surprise at the negative remarks
         | remarkable.
        
         | CyanBird wrote:
         | "Meta verse" to me, includes some type of discussion, a
         | "verse", but these days Facebook as a website does not have
         | much "worthy" discussion going on at all, if anything to me
         | this rebrand reads as "metaspying" (we can spy on you from a
         | meta multitude of gadgets, scripts and bots)
        
         | echlebek wrote:
         | The comments are negative because people hate facebook, and
         | they hate Mark Zuckerberg, and they have good reason for that.
        
         | gentleman11 wrote:
         | The Metaverse is just a mmo, except some of the characters are
         | real, the world is a parallel of ours, the bad guys are whoever
         | is trending as a villain (good for engagement), and the quests
         | are ads.
         | 
         | The end goal would be primarily to have this digital world leak
         | over to the real one as much as possible, having untold
         | profound influences on human life
         | 
         | The negativity is because it will be awful if they succeed.
         | 
         | Imagine logging in to your job via this metaverse or some small
         | country using it for voting in 50-100 years, or not being able
         | to take part in conversations because you are not logged in to
         | your ar.
         | 
         | Imagine the data collection and potential for manipulation and
         | censorship in the distant future
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > long-term mission that is worthy of being pursued
         | 
         | Sure, it's worthy of being pursued, but Facebook doing it means
         | that the end result is likely to be dystopian, not something
         | that leads to a better future.
        
           | viscanti wrote:
           | Zuck pitches it as being like current social media but that
           | you're embodied in it. That sounds pretty dystopian to me.
        
         | bostonsre wrote:
         | I'm not sure the negative comments are due to some tribal
         | rationalization. The social network-ization of society hasn't
         | had great effects in a lot of cases like increased depression
         | and affecting the course of democracy. I think facebook has
         | proven that the only thing that they care about is the all
         | mighty dollar and their leadership seems to have machiavellian
         | like reasoning of the ends (connecting the world) justifying
         | the means (monopolistic like market dominance by assimilation,
         | duplication and/or crushing of competition). The guy at the
         | helm literally models himself after caesar and has absolute
         | control over the company.
         | 
         | They are proposing to further mold and control society. To me,
         | that sounds a lot like some kind of dystopian future and not
         | something I would enjoy being part of. It may sound nice and
         | all butterflies and flowers, but I don't think it would be
         | prudent to just ignore their track record and say "o, it will
         | probably be fine".
        
         | radmuzom wrote:
         | I'd rather have JC Denton usher in the new dark age than allow
         | this raving lunatic control more of our lives.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I get the feeling that it's all going to look immensely stupid
         | until Apple releases a VR headset, and Facebook is the first
         | company with a native client on it. From there, this
         | "metaverse" concept introduces a virtually limitless amount of
         | content. They could start porting over original VR titles,
         | creating first-class video sharing tools and more.
         | 
         | I despise Facebook, but I wholeheartedly agree here: this is an
         | incredibly well-thought-out move from a company that has money
         | to burn.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | I have a strong feeling that this situation will never occur.
           | Tim and Mark aren't exactly on partnership terms.
        
             | stuart78 wrote:
             | There is no need for a partnership beyond the one that
             | allows Facebook to be hosted in the App Store. I think the
             | point is being ready on day one to take advantage of
             | whatever Apple delivers in this space. Facebook switched
             | from web-first to mobile-first/native relatively slowly
             | when the first mobile App Stores, and I think the point is
             | they don't want to be second movers in the future.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | Now that Facebook has announced their intentions, it
               | seems like Apple would be motivated to construct
               | precautionary measures against intrusive data collection
               | and user tracking into their hypothetical imminent AR
               | platform.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | The Google Graveyard gets all the attention but Facebook has
           | built and retired more clones of existing products and
           | attempts to break into other people's moats than anyone can
           | remember.
           | 
           | Investing in "metaverse" is just ticking a sub-category box
           | after they've already ticked off "VR" with their Oculus
           | acquisition. It's doubtful that all the money they have to
           | burn on this boondoggle will actually go anywhere.
        
         | athrowaway3z wrote:
         | > Facebook is absolutely one of the best-positioned companies
         | to be able to become a long-term market leader
         | 
         | No its not, and Mark knows it: "Critically, no one company will
         | run the metaverse"
         | 
         | Its not in Facebook interest to have competitors and they will
         | act accordingly. My guess is Facebook will first try to buyout
         | the 'metaverse', then it will try to 'emulate but different',
         | and then they will switch to being an over-engineered data
         | hosting provider.
        
         | dasil003 wrote:
         | By this logic, FAANG is best positioned to every tech
         | innovation because they have the resources and know-how to
         | pursue it.
         | 
         | I think it's a dangerous line of thinking as the power these
         | company wields absolutely corrupts their governance. Sure they
         | give us cool toys, and they have the marketing budget to make
         | sure know it, but real talk: we need restrictions on their
         | ability to dominate every area instead of cheerleading the
         | horizontal economies of scale that erode our privacy, kneecap
         | the next generation of startups, and consolidate power in ever
         | smaller group of global corporate oligarchs.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | > FAANG is best positioned to every tech innovation because
           | they have the resources and know-how to pursue it.
           | 
           | This isn't what I've seen. FAANG, and all large corporations,
           | have many layers of bureaucracy that are required for
           | approval of projects. "New" and "innovative" are "different"
           | and "not well understood" by definition. As the bureaucracy
           | get crusty, and more risk adverse, the ability to get these
           | "unknowns" approves becomes harder and harder. Instead, you
           | see buyouts of small companies, who didn't have that layer of
           | bureaucracy to dig through, as the larger source of
           | innovation. Going forward in time, like Intel, these small
           | and innovative acquisitions get integrated and destroyed by
           | that overwhelming bureaucracy, before they can even be
           | fruitful.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | andreilys wrote:
           | They also have the war-chest to acquire any startup that does
           | the hard work of tech R&D.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > I'm surprised how negative the comments here are
         | 
         | Honest discussion about Facebook on tech-centric forums is
         | nearly impossible these days. Facebook and Zuckerberg are
         | favorite villains in the tech discourse in 2021. I don't agree
         | with everything Facebook has done, but the vitriol directed at
         | Facebook has become so disconnected from reality that it's
         | getting hard to take it seriously.
         | 
         | > this still does seem like a very well thought-out and
         | aggressive long-term mission that is worthy of being pursued,
         | 
         | I agree. Once you get past the anti-Facebook hyperbole, it's
         | interesting to read about where they're headed next. They have
         | a lot of excellent engineers and a lot of revenue, so I'll be
         | keeping an eye on where they invest their R&D spend.
        
           | yann2 wrote:
           | Excellent engineers and revenues that massively dwarf FBs can
           | be found at AT&T too but tell us how much attention you pay
           | to whatever bullshit comes out of their CEOs 6 inch chimp
           | brain.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | Though I haven't been a customer of AT&T since the 1990s, I
             | can see they run a large physical infrastructure operation
             | that delivers communications services. I understand where
             | their revenue comes from and what they mostly spend it on
             | (ie I understand that as well as I do FB's business despite
             | having no contact with AT&T).
             | 
             | Also, AT&T isn't constantly spamming me with disinformation
             | and bad memes, nor do I have the impression that they're
             | tracking my every move across the internet.
             | 
             | While knowing nothing about AT&T's CEO, I'm pretty sure
             | that s/he doesn't sit atop a weird corporate governance
             | structure where the CEO holds a majority of the voting
             | shares and is thus a dictator-for-life.
        
           | JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
           | I wouldn't characterize people as being dishonest when they
           | talk about the societal-scale issues posed by platforms like
           | Facebook. It's tough to separate those emotions from a purely
           | analytical discussion of their technology.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | Every community needs a villain, but ask yourself this:
           | whatever happened to Libra? Portal? (Or Building 8 in
           | general.) Did you know that Facebook built its own drone
           | (Aquila) that it abandoned in 2018? M? Facebook Home? Parse?
           | Wirehog?
           | 
           | As seen with Google, just having excellent engineers and
           | revenue are insufficient to building lasting products, much
           | less fulfilling an aggressive long-term mission.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | >whatever happened to Libra? Portal? (Or Building 8 in
             | general.) Did you know that Facebook built its own drone
             | (Aquila) that was abandoned in 2018? M? Parse? Wirehog?
             | 
             | Agree with your point - to a limit. Some of facebook
             | experiements flopped but not all. Also, unlike Google, fb
             | mostly marketed them as experiements.
             | 
             | Replying mostly for sharing purposes since not all of these
             | products' histories are common knowledge. Not to one-up
             | anyone...
             | 
             | > Libra Government Blocking. Seemed interesting, especially
             | in a crypto world. Unclear if world needs more crypto
             | projects. Some economists suggested the "basket of
             | currency" approach at scale would just be an arbitrage
             | opportunity for someone to drain the bank-of-facebook. I'm
             | guessing this project existed partially as a vanity project
             | or honeypot for hiring.
             | 
             | > Portal? Still sold, still developed (uses alexa and amzn
             | develops alexa-for-portal work still), still used. IMO it
             | was good tech no one trusted (understandably).
             | 
             | > Or Building 8 in general IIRC they have build a few
             | internal products for fb and probably a lot of learning
             | that goes into oculus/portal/etc.
             | 
             | > M I think this was never GA and only a test trial?
             | Would've been cool but again, because fb it couldn't be
             | trusted.
             | 
             | > Parse? Open sourced and available, but obviously mostly
             | unused. FB doesn't really have a b2b sales team for this
             | sort of product so it wasn't sustainable since it was not
             | really invest-more-effort quality. I think it was a huge
             | missed opportunity for fb to enter the data center race
             | against aws/gcs/azure. If fb built a benign cash cow, maybe
             | they'd taper down their scummy social network ambitions. Or
             | at least the value extraction. AWS cash seems to fund cool
             | amzn loss leaders (alexa, etc). I think the same thing
             | applies to wit.ai and other AI products they buy - if they
             | could commercialize them into an "AWS for AI" product suite
             | maybe they'd find a new profit center. They have world
             | class ML work already, so seems a good place to do this.
             | 
             | > Wirehog I never heard of this one so i googled it [1].
             | Apparently it was a legal risk to continue at the time
             | (ha!). Very similar to napster. Makes sense that a startup
             | business (< 2 yo) would kill a controversial product.
             | Ironic now that they seem to be above caring about legal
             | risks.
             | 
             | [1] https://techcrunch.com/2010/05/26/wirehog/
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | > Also, unlike Google, fb mostly marketed them as
               | experiements.
               | 
               | Fair enough. Though I'd argue that with these big
               | internet companies, the line between actual product and
               | perpetually in beta experiment is blurred, more often by
               | Google than others.
               | 
               | > IMO it was good tech no one trusted (understandably).
               | 
               | And as a consequence, the adoption of Portal seems pretty
               | negligible.
               | 
               | > I think it was a huge missed opportunity for fb to
               | enter the data center race against aws/gcs/azure. If fb
               | built a benign cash cow, maybe they'd taper down their
               | scummy social network ambitions. Or at least the value
               | extraction. AWS cash seems to fund cool amzn loss leaders
               | (alexa, etc). I think the same thing applies to wit.ai
               | and other AI products they buy - if they could
               | commercialize them into an "AWS for AI" product suite
               | maybe they'd find a new profit center.
               | 
               | Very intriguing point that provides useful thought for
               | both a what-if (Facebook didn't kill Parse) and potential
               | future opportunities- if only Facebook cared for them.
               | 
               | > Makes sense that a startup business (< 2 yo) would kill
               | a controversial product.
               | 
               | Yeah, I just threw it in to get a full category range and
               | historical range of different products killed by
               | Facebook. I also edited in Facebook Home as well to touch
               | upon smartphone software.
               | 
               | My main point is that it's all well and good for a
               | corporate behemoth like FB to make the claim that they're
               | getting into a new speculative field, but it's natural to
               | be skeptical given how many of their experiments or
               | (attempts at) products don't stick around. So as exciting
               | as this sounds like, I give it as much credence as, say,
               | IBM saying that Watson is going to revolutionize and
               | transform healthcare through artificial intelligence.
               | 
               | It also goes in line with my cousin comment in another
               | subthread about how Facebook's history is littered with
               | retired replications of existing products. I didn't even
               | mention Facebook cloud gaming (Facebook Gaming -
               | admittedly still in progress), video streaming (Facebook
               | Live), Clubhouse
               | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27580014), even HQ
               | Trivia (Confetti). So that makes one wonder- does
               | Zuckerberg really care about the metaverse idea, or is he
               | just getting into it because Apple supposedly is?
        
               | baby wrote:
               | I'm wondering about numbers for portal actually. It's
               | hard to believe that it didn't turn a profit during
               | covid. I had one to talk to my parents (who had one too)
               | and it was too small but it was still great to have. If
               | the big version wasn't so expensive I would have bought
               | it in a heartbeat for me and my oldies.
        
             | paconbork wrote:
             | Libra became Novi and is still in active development for
             | what it's worth
        
               | baby wrote:
               | Libra became Diem*
               | 
               | Novi is the team at facebook that works on Diem and the
               | novi wallet.
        
             | ManuelKiessling wrote:
             | You can hide a lot of stupidity and aimlessness in growth.
        
             | baby wrote:
             | Libra and Portal are still things. Not sure I hard about
             | the others.
        
           | mustacheemperor wrote:
           | >the vitriol directed at Facebook has become so disconnected
           | from reality
           | 
           | It has completely poisoned discussion on a number of virtual
           | reality communities, since Facebook owns Oculus and the Quest
           | 2 is very commercially successful. The /r/virtualreality
           | community has become incredible negative, tribal, and toxic
           | over the last couple years, mostly revolving around
           | conspiratorial speculation about the future of the oculus
           | platform as owned by Facebook. Almost any discussion about
           | any topic is guaranteed to have at least a couple comments
           | somehow relating it back to why Facebook is evil and
           | "destroying VR."
        
             | baby wrote:
             | I find that very sad. Talked to a friend today who really
             | want a Quest but didn't buy one because facebook. I told
             | him to just create a fake account, but heh. People are
             | scared of cookies nowadays.
        
           | salt-thrower wrote:
           | Is it hyperbole to say that Facebook helped enable genocide
           | in Myanmar? Or that it has been an incredibly useful tool for
           | political propaganda, more so than traditional media ever
           | was?
           | 
           | They have not done anything to meaningfully address the very
           | real issues their platform has, and are forging ahead
           | regardless to become even more ubiquitous. The negativity is
           | very understandable.
        
         | meowface wrote:
         | >Facebook is absolutely one of the best-positioned companies to
         | be able to become a long-term market leader in these areas and
         | has been investing heavily into R&D in all related categories.
         | Although some of us dislike many ways the company operates,
         | this still does seem like a very well thought-out and
         | aggressive long-term mission that is worthy of being pursued,
         | and I'm pretty excited to continue to see innovation in the
         | more difficult areas like AI and VR here.
         | 
         | I agree, and I'm sure it may even end up as a great/fun
         | experience, but I'm just concerned about what's likely to come
         | along with it. There was a recent article linked on HN titled
         | "even if you're paying, you're still the product", and that's
         | pretty much how I see this going.
         | 
         | Facebook lost all good will years ago. It's not about the
         | product quality, but the monetization strategies and what those
         | entail.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | The problem is what is the premise of this metaverse. I will be
         | data collection for FBs core business. Imagine something like
         | Horizon for Oculus in big, a virtual world observed and
         | controlled by FB. Before Sky Net we will get the Matrix.
         | 
         | https://pic.clubic.com/v1/images/1236090/raw
        
       | nodejs_rulez_1 wrote:
       | I agree because I believe the future is likely to be some shape
       | of a socialist dystopia.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Is it a metaverse he'd like to live in?
        
       | greg7mdp wrote:
       | That would be an amazing transformation from a dumpster.
        
       | eplanit wrote:
       | Facebook is becoming "Buy-n-Large" from "Wall-e". The prescience
       | of that movie is more evident every year since it was made.
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | Facebook is becoming AOL.
        
       | SN76477 wrote:
       | Facebook want to be the curated internet.
       | 
       | I work with their ads and manage facebook pages all day. I have
       | little faith in them to do what is right.
        
       | al2o3cr wrote:
       | Marketing droid: "We're not a social media company, we're a
       | metaverse company"
       | 
       | Normal person: What does that mean?
       | 
       | Marketing droid: "The metaverse does not have a specific
       | definition"
        
         | maxwell wrote:
         | It's "a place where all IP can live together, where all kinds
         | of experiences can happen."
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/juliey4/status/1205393085145874433
        
           | xxxtentachyon wrote:
           | Really wish they launched last year. Imagine all the Second
           | Life proms
        
           | CyanBird wrote:
           | Ahh yes, Facebook has finally ascended and become Zombo.com,
           | their final form
        
             | zeruch wrote:
             | ...to be fair, even Zombocom has more actual focus.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | Wow. Either it's a bold and unifying claim, or complete
           | corporate BS.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | I believe the meta verse refers to Facebook's efforts with VR
         | in Oculus and their upcoming AR release
         | 
         | https://www.oculus.com/facebook-horizon/
         | 
         | I know the article mentions that it goes "beyond AR and VR",
         | but all that means is that Facebook will have flat pancake
         | screen versions of their meta verse apps
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | meiraleal wrote:
         | Feels like he is trying to copy Elon Musk
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | With the power of imagination, the metaverse can be anything!
        
           | dharmab wrote:
           | When is FB buying Zombo.com?
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | We sell ads
        
       | verytrivial wrote:
       | LOL. No.
       | 
       | A week or so ago I unfriended every one of my 'friends' on
       | Facebook, many there since 2007. I'm now just squatting my own
       | identity for the handful of community and sports clubs that use
       | Facebook as a bulletin board. These people are 'acquaintances', I
       | know most of them by sight, but don't see what they're having for
       | breakfast or when their baby does something amazing. So,
       | basically neighbours in a village.
       | 
       | I realised I did not want to be the reason people were using
       | Facebook, posting their curated/fictional 'best self'. Basically,
       | friends don't encourage friends to use Facebook[1].
       | 
       | Write that email if you expect someone to read it, write a blog
       | post if you don't. But I'm over being party to mining other
       | people's attention spans and identity for personal gratification
       | and someone else's profit.
       | 
       | [1] Or any other parasocial medium in my opinion.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > I realised I did not want to be the reason people were using
         | Facebook
         | 
         | I gave up my Facebook account about a decade ago. Not for this
         | reasons (although I very much agree with it), but because I
         | realized that I wasn't using it. Friends and family would try
         | to communicate with me over it, and they wouldn't get a
         | response because I wasn't looking.
         | 
         | A lot of them thought I was ignoring them, so I figured it was
         | better to not have a presence there at all, to eliminate any
         | possible misunderstanding.
        
           | jamal-kumar wrote:
           | I was recently forwarded a big comment thread from a while
           | ago on that site where a bunch of people I haven't talked to
           | for like 5-8 years were figuring I blocked them when really I
           | just deleted my account a long while back, which was pretty
           | funny.
           | 
           | I didn't bother reaching out to correct this at all. I think
           | I value the ability to keep people who think their time is
           | best spent staring into nightmare rectangles and pretty much
           | just gossiping their way into hell experience out of my life,
           | and the people who aren't into that as much in.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | > A lot of them thought I was ignoring them, so I figured it
           | was better to not have a presence there at all, to eliminate
           | any possible misunderstanding.
           | 
           | This is how I feel about email. I'm not sure it's possible to
           | function in modern society without an email address though.
        
         | viscanti wrote:
         | So you don't want to be embodied in a world full of Russian and
         | anti-vax propaganda (along with the fictional 'best self'
         | content from 'friends')?
        
         | tharne wrote:
         | Right on. I quit Facebook about 2 years ago for the exact same
         | reason and never looked back. I think you're on to something
         | here. Network effects work both ways. If each new user on a
         | platform compounds it's utility and desirability, then the
         | reverse is also true. This means even a relatively small, but
         | non-trivial, number of people shunning Facebook can drastically
         | reduce it's desirability and power.
         | 
         | I saw a little tiny glimpse of this when an organization I'm in
         | wanted to use Facebook to schedule events and communicate.
         | There were perhaps 30 of us in the group and myself and one
         | other person spoke up and said we weren't on Facebook, so we
         | would either need to be emailed the events or simply not
         | participate. The head of the org decided it was easier just to
         | send everyone an email. So two stubborn people out of 30
         | changed the way an organization decided to interact with it's
         | members.
        
           | DickingAround wrote:
           | The 'intolerant minority' is a very interesting and
           | surprisingly useful concept.
        
       | CraftingLinks wrote:
       | Within a decade FB will be the next dying messenger and the world
       | will have moved on.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | Facebook the company or Facebook the platform? The thing with
         | Facebook owning Instagram is even as Facebook itself becomes
         | less and less relevant to younger generations, the company
         | still owns the platform those younger generations favor. And as
         | Instagram inevitably becomes itself irrelevant, I'm sure
         | Facebook will just buy the next social media platform.
        
           | cameronh90 wrote:
           | Instagram has already peaked and is on the down-trend.
           | 
           | TikTok is what the kids are using now - and they're valued at
           | about half of what FB is valued at, so unlikely that FB will
           | be able to buy them.
           | 
           | Maybe FB will buy whatever replaces TikTok.
        
             | vlozko wrote:
             | In light of all the details that has come out with regards
             | to buying out Instagram to prevent them from being a
             | competitor, it's a massive uphill regulatory approval climb
             | even if money is not an issue.
        
             | nebula8804 wrote:
             | I still wish Oracle took over TikTok. It would have been an
             | amazing plot twist. Would they come up an Oracle style
             | licensing agreement for all the tweens on TikTok?
             | 
             | Just like how Gen Z realized much faster than millennials
             | that the economy and their future is hogwash, they would
             | learn the consequences of agreeing to an Oracle license
             | agreement much faster than their older peers.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | "Tiktok is a national security threat" hahaha. I miss
               | trump.
        
               | tablespoon wrote:
               | > "Tiktok is a national security threat" hahaha. I miss
               | trump.
               | 
               | More accurately, it's a _potential_ national security
               | threat, but not yet an _actualized_ one.
        
             | spideymans wrote:
             | >Maybe FB will buy whatever replaces TikTok.
             | 
             | It's unlikely that the government would permit such a sale.
        
               | BizarroLand wrote:
               | As long as they buy it before it gets big, then the
               | government probably won't protest too much
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | If Facebook buys the next TikTok as a small startup when
               | they have minimal market share then the federal
               | government would have no legal basis to block a sale.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | Governments can and do change the legal basis, and they
               | _all_ seem to have a problem with Big Tech right now,
               | albeit for inconsistent reasons.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | The governments, one should say.
        
             | tablespoon wrote:
             | > Maybe FB will buy whatever replaces TikTok.
             | 
             | If they're allowed to. There's a lot more antitrust
             | scrutiny now than when they bought Instagram.
        
             | jensensbutton wrote:
             | I think Instagram has more staying power than TikTok as
             | TikTok users start aging and the next generation moves onto
             | their own platform. There's a good chance I'm wrong, but my
             | guess is that publishing videos of yourself as a primary
             | communication format gets less appealing with age as social
             | circles shrink.
        
               | cameronh90 wrote:
               | Personally as a 31 year old male, I could never get into
               | Instagram. Always just felt like a shopping catalogue
               | posing as social media, and the discovery is terrible, no
               | matter how much data I try to feed it.
               | 
               | I love TikTok though, and not only do I feel like it "got
               | me" after only a few hours of use without hearting
               | anything or having any friends that use it. I've learnt
               | about a lot of local events, restaurants and days out -
               | in a way that seems way more organic than Instagram paid
               | influencers.
               | 
               | Honestly, their algorithm has been great for me, in a way
               | that only really Spotify has rivalled.
        
               | baby wrote:
               | > having any friends that use it
               | 
               | That's the point, tiktok is 9gag, instagram is
               | snapchat/facebook/twitter
        
               | baby wrote:
               | ^ this. I would think of snapchat as a competitor to
               | instagram, but not tiktok. You don't go on tiktok to talk
               | to your friends or see what's up. Tiktok is the new 9gag
               | rather.
        
           | RegW wrote:
           | Even FB will make a wrong turn one day. Every time it buys a
           | new name it gets bigger. Eventually it will be a fat man
           | standing behind a lamp post
        
             | nebula8804 wrote:
             | It takes a long time for the fat man to die. In the
             | meantime it will drag us all along kicking and screaming
             | until its eventual demise.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | Young people look at Instagram the same way they look at
           | Twitter: it's a platform filled with millennials and older
           | people that take it way too seriously.
        
         | mgbmtl wrote:
         | Facebook will be like cigarettes. Legislated to death in some
         | countries, preying on the vulnerable like vultures in other
         | countries. Prospering.
        
         | libertine wrote:
         | Things are different this time around, I don't think we can
         | assume that... probably no company has ever had access to so
         | much cheap money combined with the global reach they have.
        
           | meiraleal wrote:
           | Yeah but (1) it is not the only one and (2) what you bankrupt
           | Facebook will be a different leverage, not access to cheap
           | money (or access to even cheaper money?)
        
         | zthrowaway wrote:
         | They buy up competition to stay alive, it will be a much longer
         | time that they stay around.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Probably but even underused chat apps sell enough ad space to
         | convince shareholders to trade at $100bn marketcap
         | 
         | So good thing Snapchat didnt sell to Zuck
        
         | haaserd wrote:
         | One can only hope.
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | "We lived on farms and then we lived in cities and now we're
       | going to live on the internet!"
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiIGwmTocdU
        
       | Ataraxy wrote:
       | We're back to AOL again are we?
        
       | makecheck wrote:
       | The main value Facebook ever had to me was a way to reach people
       | that were otherwise hard to reach. Over the years, literally
       | every other possible benefit eroded away as the platform changed.
       | 
       | Therefore, I make sure people I care about know how to reach me
       | _outside Facebook_ so that it really does not matter if I log in
       | to Facebook. In other words, I no longer need it even to reach
       | people.
        
       | arminiusreturns wrote:
       | I think and have thought for along time we are indeed headed for
       | a few competing "metaverses", but having ruminated on the topic
       | for a long time, I could tell you all kinds of reasons a
       | metaverse created by someone like facebook will inherently not be
       | _the one metaverse_ aka the one that actually makes a paradigm
       | shift.
       | 
       | Ive pitched metaverse style training systems to the department of
       | education for example. There is a lot of really good progress to
       | be had in the space.
       | 
       | If done right, a good metaverse will be the next WoW. Thats
       | billions of dollars. Im not surprised facebook is doing this, Im
       | surprised they all didnt start their own metaverse programs much
       | sooner...
       | 
       | The race is on, may the best win.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Metastasis.
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | Zuckerberg and the Metaverse of Madness
        
       | 3gg wrote:
       | This guy truly lives in his own universe.
       | 
       | To enter the Facebook metaverse, you need to abandon whatever
       | preconceptions you had about humanity, ignore all social and
       | political problems around you, and trascend all previously
       | established limits of ignorance, arrogance and technological
       | naivete past the gates of cyberhell. Oh, and you need love ads
       | because, oh boy, are you getting some.
        
       | marto1 wrote:
       | and we all cheer him on, right !?
        
       | 3GuardLineups wrote:
       | yall need to read Snow Crash
        
       | astlouis44 wrote:
       | Check out https://vrland.io
       | 
       | It's my startup's take on what the metaverse should look like -
       | entirely web-based, so it works everywhere. It's a 3D/VR social
       | platform where you can upload photos, videos, and even 3D models
       | into rooms. Complete customizability plus easily configurable
       | avatars.
       | 
       | Link to our Discord: https://discord.gg/cNfG834
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | Facebook is IOI in Ready Player One and Zuckerberg is Nolan
       | Sorrento.
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Can't say enough how much I despise the term 'metaverse', mainly
       | because it can mean pretty much whatever the speaker wants it to
       | mean, and it's usually used to hype with obscurity (i.e. it
       | sounds cool but nobody really knows what it means), as opposed to
       | clarifying with specifics of what something actually does.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Url changed from https://www.independent.co.uk/life-
       | style/gadgets-and-tech/fa..., which points to this.
       | 
       | There was also:
       | 
       |  _Zuckerberg on why the social network is becoming 'a metaverse
       | company'_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27921327 - July
       | 2021 (15 comments)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | robertwt7 wrote:
       | Almost got me buying oculus quest 2. But then after looking at
       | the available applications I didn't pull the trigger
        
       | marban wrote:
       | Can I ride my hoverboard while waving a flag in the Metaverse?
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Yes, in Second Life. [1][2]
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=%E2%...
         | 
         | [2] https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GD-Flag-
         | Pole-280-in-1-W...
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | I don't feel like clicking on this... are they getting into the
       | quantum hype game?
        
         | Choc13 wrote:
         | >>> ""I think [it] is probably going to resemble some kind of a
         | hybrid between the social platforms that we see today, but an
         | environment where you're embodied in it", Mr Zuckerberg also
         | said. One of the benefits of this ecosystem would be that, "if
         | you go back 20 or 30 years, a lot of people's individual
         | opportunities and experience was dictated by their physical
         | proximity", and that easy movement through a virtual space
         | could avoid such barriers."
         | 
         | He seems to be saying they're getting (more) into the Black
         | Mirror game.
        
           | Choc13 wrote:
           | Oh and "The metaverse does not have a specific definition"
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | Oh, good, the real problem with social media has always been
           | relegated to electronic devices. What we really need is
           | enragement metrics for meatspace
        
           | ssklash wrote:
           | And by Black Mirror game I assume you mean creating a
           | dystopian hellscape and not some interactive TV thing.
        
             | Choc13 wrote:
             | Correct. This episode in particular
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits
        
         | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
         | No, the VR / Augmented reality goggles hype. They bought
         | Oculus, remember.
         | 
         | Dystopian metaverse.
         | https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/22/11087890/mark-zuckerberg-...
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | This is like calling a blockchain "decentralized"
       | 
       | How is it a metaverse if there's only one canonical environment
       | hosted at Facebook.com?
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Because it's really on oculus.com
        
       | yawaworht1978 wrote:
       | You have to give one thing to the guy, he keeps pushing, he could
       | retire 1000times over.
       | 
       | What is driving him? Anyone knows him from younger years?
       | 
       | Most similar people(on a smaller scale) i know are money driven
       | even though they have enough.
       | 
       | But at this level? Makes you wonder what his final goal is?
        
         | gilmore606 wrote:
         | Most people have to constantly remind themselves they can't
         | change the world, and adjust their expectations and priorities
         | accordingly. Some tiny fraction of people find themselves in
         | the position where they actually can change the world. I'm not
         | surprised they try to; I'm more surprised that more of them
         | don't.
        
           | baby wrote:
           | The kind of pressure (and hate) you get at that level is not
           | for everyone...
        
         | baby wrote:
         | It's his calling. He believes he is changing the world for the
         | better and connecting people.
        
         | moogly wrote:
         | > What is driving him?
         | 
         | Megalomania. His 2017 "manifesto" made that rather clear to me.
         | In it, he came off as trying to sound like the president of the
         | world.
         | 
         | I think that was also the year he spent time traveling the US
         | states "to meet real folk".
        
           | baby wrote:
           | You want him to stay in his ivory tower instead?
        
             | moogly wrote:
             | You have a point, but nevertheless it was reminiscent of
             | some kind of campaigning.
             | 
             | Not sure where I want him for him to make the least damage
             | to society. Maybe on the first manned rocket to Mars?
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | On the way to Virtuaverse's1 idea of permanent reality?
       | 
       | __________
       | 
       | 1. https://www.gog.com/game/virtuaverse
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | yeah, sure, Mark, I'll believe in this "unprecedented
       | interoperability" when I can follow someone on Facebook using an
       | open standard like RSS without having an account, and when I can
       | have my personal Wordpress site auto-post to my personal Facebook
       | account.
       | 
       | I'll believe in this "unprecedented interoperability" when you're
       | not constantly trying to get me to pay a ransom to have my posts
       | shown to people who have said they wanna follow me, either.
        
         | baby wrote:
         | > when I can follow someone on Facebook using an open standard
         | like RSS without having an account
         | 
         | Ahhh, being out of touch
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | It was particularly galling when they silently disabled the
         | Twitter integration a few years ago and removed years' worth of
         | my cross-platform posts.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | I'm thinking that chances of Facebook turning into a 'metaverse'
       | are less than the chances that Facebook will turn into the next
       | MySpace. But perhaps I'm overly cynical.
       | 
       | It was pretty clear to me that had Blizzard a bit more vision
       | they might have been able to pull this trick off with World of
       | Warcraft but at this point I think that too is off the table.
       | 
       | One of the more interesting things I've learned over the course
       | of my career is that the ability of an organization to "change"
       | is tightly governed by the ability of its leadership to "see".
       | Truly the most fascinating part of my time at IBM after it had
       | acquired Blekko was seeing a company from the inside that
       | actively at war with itself between the folks who wanted to
       | modernize it and the "old guard" who wanted to keep the status
       | quo.
       | 
       | As an executive it is important to understand that in order for
       | change to happen, all of your leadership has to see their _own_
       | role in the new vision and how they will be successful, otherwise
       | they will treat it as a threat and work against it, both actively
       | and passively.
       | 
       | Given how Zuckerberg has handled the disinformation problems at
       | Facebook (essentially by throwing other executives under the bus
       | rather than take ownership) it seems unlikely they would be able
       | to pull of such a transformation. Mostly because the other
       | executives would be sabotaging efforts for fear they would be
       | thrown out.
        
         | jacobr1 wrote:
         | Both scenarios can be true. FB could be at the forefront of
         | AR/VR with Oculus and maybe related things like Identity. And
         | on the social network side, they could be a in a slow decline.
         | My bet is something more akin to AOL/Yahoo rather myspace,
         | where the remain relevant in certain niches (older people more
         | focused on the legacy experience, mom & pop stores that
         | currently use facebook pages as their webfront, etc ...). That
         | said, it seems entirely likely that they would make an
         | acquisition like instagram once one gains traction and stay
         | relevant that way.
        
           | baby wrote:
           | I doubt it will end like this for two reason: it's a money
           | printing machine AND there's a strong engineering culture. I
           | think fb has more chance to turn like wechat, especially with
           | their move towards payment.
        
       | iammisc wrote:
       | In two days, my facebook account will be gone for good.
       | 
       | I plan on throwing a party!
        
         | kgin wrote:
         | Great, send me the link after you make an event page on...
        
       | artfulhippo wrote:
       | The Verge podcast[0] where Zuck made this comment was quite
       | revealing.
       | 
       | Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to communicate an
       | intense fear that Facebook would be locked out of Apple's
       | upcoming AR platform.
       | 
       | Is the 'metaverse' inevitable? Or is it merely sci-fi wishful
       | thinking?
       | 
       | If 'interoperability' and 'decentralization' means that you can't
       | avoid targeted advertising, I'll pass.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.theverge.com/22588022/mark-zuckerberg-
       | facebook-c...
        
         | Niglodonicus wrote:
         | I seriously hope enough people are still grounded enough in
         | this reality to reject AR/VR bullshit besides as a fun
         | playground like VRchat or what have you. Integrating either or
         | both into daily life would be fucking godawful.
        
           | baby wrote:
           | VR is awesome.
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | To me, VR is really cool. I wouldn't want to give it up. It
           | functions as a game console with a different input/display
           | device. I'm not too keen on the metaverse concept, and I
           | don't use it for social stuff.
        
             | goatlover wrote:
             | Agreed on that, but I don't want it to become like a
             | smartphone where it almost becomes a necessary component of
             | a majority of your waking life. I already take in enough
             | digital content and am tracked by enough things as it is.
        
         | at_a_remove wrote:
         | I hate to be the one to bang on about standards, but the
         | cyberpunk vision of the Metaverse -- and I am aiming at kind of
         | a bog-standard middle ground of it -- will depend on some very
         | open standards that are decentralized at the core, starting at
         | _Snow Crash_ and ending in the John C. Wright  "The Golden
         | Oecumene" sense of things.
         | 
         | Anything _but_ an open and radically-decentralized
         | interoperable set of standards and you 're Running On Someone's
         | Specific Hardware. That means that they and the country (or
         | other municipal structures) might have opinions on what you can
         | run on their hardware, and thus the Four Horsemen of the
         | Infocalypse will be invoked at the start.
         | 
         | As you slide toward less interoperability and more
         | corporate/government control, you're going toward the _Johnny
         | Mnemonic_ territory (maybe without the cyberdolphin). You 'll
         | have to hack your way around the place, and that means that the
         | ordinary folks are left out. They might not have the smarts,
         | the hardware, the wetware, and so on.
         | 
         | Further levels of control and you're into Second Life -- one
         | platform, one company, but perhaps some local rules/anarchy.
         | And if you're still _thinking of the children_ , the Metaverse
         | eventually looks like Club Penguin. You can finally rest
         | assured that the concept is functionally dead when we are all
         | sending each other only various emojis of unrealistic skin
         | tones.
         | 
         | So, the question then becomes, does anything in the
         | Facebook/Zuckerberg history suggest where on that spectrum we
         | will land?
         | 
         | As a side note, I believe that pretty much any version of this
         | Metaverse means targeted ads. On the controlled side, the
         | people running the hardware will want money, and that means
         | ads. On the uncontrolled ads, randos will want money, and that
         | means that they'll do whatever they can to sniff your activity
         | and monitor you, and then send you ads.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | _will depend on some very open standards that are
           | decentralized at the core_
           | 
           | There's a performance problem. The open Web only works
           | because we have enough compute power to tie up multiprocessor
           | computers with a few gigaflops per CPU and gigabytes of RAM
           | to display 2D text with a few pictures on the screen. A good
           | 3D game world pushes the limits of what current hardware can
           | do. The level of inefficiency associated with
           | Javascript/HTML/CSS won't work for an interesting 3D world.
           | It was tried. See X3D.
        
             | fnord77 wrote:
             | sooner or later hardware will be sufficient
        
             | at_a_remove wrote:
             | Oh, I have no illusions about how well the radically
             | decentralized business works out. It is wildly inefficient,
             | the content could be _anything_ , and so on. Think Freenet.
             | And I have watched the VR promise die enough deaths to make
             | a cat envious.
        
           | akeck wrote:
           | Could I trouble you (or anyone) for a "metaverse"-related
           | fiction reading list? It's been awhile since I dug into some
           | classic cyberpunk.
        
             | TRcontrarian wrote:
             | The founding text is Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson (1992).
             | It's short, funny, entertaining, and full of new ideas in a
             | freewheeling early 90's spirit. The list in the comment you
             | are replying to is not bad, since most interactions you
             | will ever have with someone about a metaverse will hinge on
             | shared descriptions you have with them of a metaverse, so
             | whichever books you hear about the most are by definition
             | the most useful ones to read.
             | 
             | Almost everyone has read or heard of Ready Player One
             | (2011), which contains extensive descriptions of its own
             | corporate dystopic metaverse, albeit one that I find
             | insufferably cliche and unoriginal.
             | 
             | Metaverse descriptions are descended from the first
             | cyberspace descriptions in Neuromancer (1984) which is a
             | beautiful book worth a read.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | Really just watch the Spielberg film for Ready Player One
               | and to get the gist of it.
        
             | at_a_remove wrote:
             | Aside from what I mentioned, you're looking at Bruce
             | Sterling, maybe a little Stross. I hesitate to recommend
             | Doctorow -- he is faddishly distracted and senselessly
             | optimistic. Vinge's "True Names" stands out. Maybe _When
             | H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One_ for the AI side of things. The
             | amusing _Headcrash_ , writings by Pat Cadigan, Jeter's
             | deliciously dystopian _Noir_ is a favorite if you want to
             | see how bad it might get. _Hardwired_ , by Walter Jon
             | Williams, but that one has been a while.
        
               | TRcontrarian wrote:
               | Vernor Vinge is usually fantastic.
        
             | pbadg3r wrote:
             | You may enjoy http://www.technovelgy.com/
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | It's already here. All you need to see it is either Steam VR or
         | Oculus. Then try Virtual Chat, Alt space, Rec Room, or
         | Facebook's Horizon.
         | 
         | Even Roblox and Minecraft support VR now
        
         | SrslyJosh wrote:
         | > Without naming Apple specifically, Zuck managed to
         | communicate an intense fear that Facebook would be locked out
         | of Apple's upcoming AR platform.
         | 
         | We can sure hope.
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | This makes a lot of sense. And given the Oculus, they already
         | have a pretty decent foothold in the AR/VR world.
         | 
         | So as a reaction for Apple becoming "the" gatekeeper for a
         | metaverse platform, Facebook is now doubling down on becoming
         | "the" metaverse platform. Whatever that means.
         | 
         | I wonder whether Facebook is going to try to accomplish this
         | using their existing social networks, or do some acquisitions
         | in the space.
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | AR is the obvious next platform and UX leap if the hardware is
         | workable.
         | 
         | Zuck and Apple both recognize this and are both working on it.
         | 
         | The winner will be similar to an iPhone level win in terms of
         | shift, it's hard to know how close viable hardware is though.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I doubt Facebook really needs to worry about Apple's upcoming
         | AR/VR push. They're the people who sell $300 VR headsets, if
         | anything they should be encouraging Apple to drive the price of
         | their headset up.
        
       | cityzen wrote:
       | Never knew Revenge of the Nerds would get so dark...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-23 23:01 UTC)