[HN Gopher] Privacy is an afterthought. Here's how devs can easi...
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       Privacy is an afterthought. Here's how devs can easily make it
       better.
        
       Author : c1ll1an
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2021-07-23 10:45 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stackoverflow.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stackoverflow.blog)
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | Every developer who as been in the industry longer than a year is
       | almost certainly part of two or more major data breeches. I can
       | only speak for myself but I take privacy and security very
       | seriously not only for myself but in architecting system to
       | protect client data as much as possible (and to collect as little
       | as is absolutely necessary).
        
       | TheChaplain wrote:
       | In my experience the devs usually aren't the obstacle when it
       | comes to implementing privacy, it's a bit higher up the chain...
        
         | nsamuell wrote:
         | Maybe for the "big" decisions (like whether or not to store
         | user data in the first place), but I'd argue that in the myriad
         | of small decisions (like whether to copy the entire user object
         | into an analytics table or just a pseudonymized id) I do think
         | the average dev isn't as "respectful" as you think...
         | 
         | YMMV of course
        
         | pmoriarty wrote:
         | And yet devs can't entirely wash their hands of responsibility,
         | since no one forces them to work at companies that don't
         | respect privacy.
        
           | throwaway210222 wrote:
           | > no one forces them to work at companies that don't respect
           | privacy.
           | 
           | I'll move if my customers move too.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | Interviewer: Do you have any questions for us.
         | 
         | Candidate: Will this job require me to violate anyone's
         | privacy.
         | 
         | Hold on, how about this instead.
         | 
         | Candidate: Will this job require me to do anything illegal.
         | 
         | Candidate already knows the answers to these questions. She has
         | no need to ask.
         | 
         | This "the boss made me do it" defense seems to be a recurring
         | comment on HN, perhaps from those with a guilty conscience. But
         | is it really persuasive. It is like asking the reader have
         | empathy for a drug dealer selling fentanyl because "he really
         | needs the money and no one else will hire him".
         | 
         | "I really just want to sell marijuana but the people higher up
         | the chain decided we should sell opiates instead."
        
         | csande17 wrote:
         | I dunno, machine learning engineers were a key force against
         | privacy at one company I once worked at. As an ML engineer,
         | your whole career sort of depends on convincing the company you
         | work at to collect as much information as possible from their
         | users, so that you can then run it through magical algorithms
         | to make it look like you're providing value to the company.
         | (There are exceptions, but entire subfields like
         | "recommendation systems" depend on this--startups aren't hiring
         | ML engineers to get better at playing chess.)
        
           | isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
           | I've also seen plenty of projects which did not use proper
           | authentication and authorization because devs were too lazy
           | to implement it or to learn the platform they were developing
           | on (e.g. AWS). It's an indirect effect on privacy, but when
           | it hits it hits hard.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | Where I work devs usually have the most force. We know privacy
         | laws, we care about not collecting bullshit data that might
         | ruin our day when our org looses it later. We are not a
         | software company however, software is mostly for us and our
         | customers
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | The only way to make it part of the original requirements and not
       | an afterthought is to start making it like in other industries.
       | 
       | Exemplary punishment for any security exploit gone wild.
       | 
       | Management will start getting the required resources to make it
       | happen accordingly.
        
         | stadium wrote:
         | There is a risk that good intentioned regulations become a
         | barrier to entry that only large, well-resourced organizations
         | can meet.
         | 
         | For example, what if "management" is a one or two person
         | startup?
         | 
         | Maybe punishment is not the answer, but rather liability
         | insurance coverage requirements. Or treat it like workers
         | compensation where a small tax funds an insurance pool. And
         | make it so repeat offenders get charged an increasingly higher
         | tax rate.
        
           | b3morales wrote:
           | Penalties can be both severe and proportionate to revenue at
           | the same time, as one option.
        
       | fitblipper wrote:
       | I think a huge chunk of bad privacy outcomes arise through data
       | retention policies and aggregation across many sources.
       | 
       | To operate, a phone company might need to know where you are
       | calling from and who, a doctors office might need to know your
       | medical and contact info, an isp might need to know your ip
       | address, a dating website might need to know your ip address,
       | your chat app might need to know your contact list, your gps
       | might need to know your precise location at this specific time.
       | 
       | Do they need to know them for years though? And once all this
       | info is aggregated, how personal is the information that can be
       | learned?
        
       | pintxo wrote:
       | Quite a complex approach, where most will be able to gain a lot
       | with some very simple actions:
       | 
       | - dont collect data you do not absolutely need to service the
       | user
       | 
       | - do not use third party libs or services, where you do not
       | understand how they handle the data you submit to it
        
         | seanpreston wrote:
         | That second point is very interesting. Beyond reading code /
         | SLA for the lib, I'm not sure there's an easy (read: time
         | efficient) way to understand what data points are used for what
         | purposes currently. At least it seems that would hold for a lot
         | of services.
         | 
         | Am I missing something here?
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | The easy way is a Data Processing Agreement, which has to
           | precisely list what data is processed which way.
           | 
           | This is of course a legal document and the implementation may
           | do something else.
        
       | swiley wrote:
       | Privacy and most other things are always an afterthought for
       | closed software.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-23 23:02 UTC)