[HN Gopher] Firefox May Have Lost Up to 12% of Its Users So Far ...
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       Firefox May Have Lost Up to 12% of Its Users So Far in 2021
        
       Author : libab
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2021-07-21 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fosspost.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fosspost.org)
        
       | 908B64B197 wrote:
       | Now that Edge is Chromium based, is there still a good reason not
       | to stick with the default browser?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | seppoonbi2 wrote:
         | Yes. If you don't want to be using google or google using you,
         | which ever way you look at it. It's better than chrome, but
         | suffers same thins as firefox like default settings.
        
       | ipspam wrote:
       | Not sure what's wrong with it. I use Firefox nightly and I love
       | it. Admittedly, for mobile I use Brave browser.
        
         | meowster wrote:
         | If you're on an iPhone, I don't blame you, because Apple won't
         | allow Firefox with add-ons. If you're using Android, you really
         | should use Firefox with uBlock Origin.
        
           | ledauphin wrote:
           | this is the only reason I use Firefox on mobile. but I also
           | use nightly, and it does support uBlock Origin.
        
       | sundarurfriend wrote:
       | Mozilla's recent history should be (and probably will be at some
       | point) a case study in PR. They had enormous reserves of
       | goodwill, trust, and positive perception, and managed to squander
       | all of that in a relatively short period of time.
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | My gut tells me Rust is going places and I predict in
         | retrospect Mozilla will be seen as having abandoned their stake
         | in Rust just as it was taking off. Just another example.
        
         | ricardo81 wrote:
         | To be fair there's some apparent history of Google sabotaging
         | the browser so people favour Chrome.
         | 
         | e.g. https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-
         | has...
         | 
         | That said, it's not healthy that Mozilla have relied on search
         | revenue from Google.
         | 
         | Personally I've used FF for 10 years+, on Linux nowadays
        
         | sprafa wrote:
         | How did they manage that ?
        
           | chmod775 wrote:
           | By replacing focus with office politics, politics at the
           | office, and a bunch of projects so stupid and far from their
           | mission/audience that they literally can and did shock a
           | theater full of people into silence.
           | 
           | Blizzard specifically lost people passionate about their
           | work, getting taken over by business types, realizing too
           | late that it wasn't Blizzard the company that made great
           | products, but great people making great products. As a
           | consequence of passionate people leaving, their audience
           | doesn't feel like they are being understood at all, or even
           | listened to. The devs that were regularly talking to the
           | players and spoke spoke their language have departed, some of
           | them now working on their own game (Palia), where they
           | continue to work as they used to.
           | 
           | Mozilla just appears to be spreading itself very thin,
           | straying far from their mission of creating a good browser.
        
           | nonbirithm wrote:
           | I really hate to sound negative talking about Mozilla,
           | because I think their mission is appealing to me, but it came
           | down to a matter of execution of that vision.
           | 
           | From personal experience, my perception of Mozilla has been
           | negatively affected by how they've handled the rewrite of
           | Firefox for Android. It was released too early, and it's
           | still missing the ability to search through browsing history.
           | And there are still so many bugs and performance issues
           | almost a year after its release. I opened issues for many of
           | them and they have been left ignored to this day.
           | 
           | - Scrolling up on Google search's results page and some other
           | pages is not registered half the time, and sometimes triggers
           | pull-to-refresh instead
           | 
           | - Scrolling up inside an input box while the page is at the
           | top of the screen causes unintentional pull-to-refresh
           | 
           | - Bitwarden autofill is not registered unless you kill and
           | restart the app after logging in
           | 
           | - You can't save images that require cookies to be passed to
           | the request, such as under DDoS protected pages
           | 
           | - Links will sometimes redirect to about:blank unless you go
           | back and click them again
           | 
           | - Most recently visited page is not restored when closing and
           | reopening the app, even though it's saved to the history
           | (closed as wontfix)
           | 
           | - Uses large amounts of memory, causing Android share actions
           | to be silently killed due to OOM unless you quickly kill the
           | app right after sending them
           | 
           | - Closing a tab and clicking "Undo" in the popup sends the
           | tab all the way to the top of the list, instead of its
           | original position (inconvenient if you have a large number of
           | tabs open)
           | 
           | - Frequently loses open tabs in memory, even within ten
           | seconds of navigating to another tab
           | 
           | I'm pretty much only using mobile Firefox out of principle
           | and for uBlock Origin at this point. And sometimes I still
           | have to use something like Brave to get around performance
           | issues.
           | 
           | And then Mozilla announces that they've spent their
           | development resources on projects like Rally and DoH that I
           | personally have no interest in using.
           | 
           | It's certainly frustrating. It makes you wonder what their
           | management is thinking.
           | 
           | I hope I'm not alone in thinking these are objectively bad
           | experiences to have on mobile, which will only increase the
           | marketshare of Blink-based Android browsers. It's been my
           | experience that, when one of their mobile team's engineers
           | says that they have to wait for the corresponding GeckoView
           | issue to be fixed before it can be upstreamed into FfA, you
           | might as well give up hope of seeing it fixed for at least
           | another few months, if ever. And I can't understand why they
           | close and ignore some issues that still have a very real
           | impact on the browsing experience to this day.
           | 
           | It's sad, because Firefox is the only opportunity on mobile
           | to take advantage of uBlock Origin and other WebExtensions
           | (though full support is still not implemented yet), and
           | Brave's adblocking is at times inferior, like for Twitter's
           | web version.
           | 
           | Apologies for the rant, but I feel that it had to be said.
        
             | climb_stealth wrote:
             | Have you tried Firefox Browser (Nightly for Developers)?
             | I'm using that on Android since the whole debacle that you
             | described. It mostly works fine and from the start it
             | already had a lot of the features that are missing in the
             | main Firefox. I don't understand how it can all be working
             | fine in the dev build whilst the main visible product is so
             | lacking. Sometimes the UI gets some odd changes with
             | updates, but I haven't had to switch browsers again so far.
             | Though I'm not sure if your specific issues are addressed.
             | I mostly ignore or work around them. I have pull to refresh
             | disabled for example as it was driving me nuts.
             | 
             | And yes, I can't understand how Firefox was updated with so
             | many features missing and it is still not there. It's quite
             | sad, really.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | another interesting case would be Blizzard Entertainment
         | 
         | that company went from being beloved by nearly all to
         | universally hated in under 18 months
         | 
         | it has been astounding to watch so much destroyed so quickly
        
           | sundarurfriend wrote:
           | In this case it was an acquisition wasn't it? I remember
           | reading from disappointed fans that we should call this
           | company Activision-Blizzard and that Blizzard itself died a
           | long time ago.
        
           | merb wrote:
           | well it took way way longer in blizzards case and it was
           | their fate. not enough games for their core audience, d3 not
           | as good as d2, wow addons being more stale after 3.0, etc..
           | the last 3 years was just the tip of all the downs of the
           | years before.
        
           | TAForObvReasons wrote:
           | Mozilla has been a death by a thousand cuts over many years.
           | 
           | The first "user-enhancing" [1] in-browser ads ("sponsored
           | tiles") were introduced in 2014. Pocket imposition was 2015
           | [2]. Mr Robot was 2017 [3]. Cliqz was 2017 [4]. booking.com
           | was 2018 [5].
           | 
           | [1] https://twitter.com/dherman76/status/433320156496789504
           | 
           | [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1172126
           | 
           | [3] https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/mozilla-
           | back...
           | 
           | [4] https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-
           | whi...
           | 
           | [5] https://venturebeat.com/2018/12/31/mozilla-ad-on-
           | firefoxs-ne...
        
       | dmitrygr wrote:
       | Hm, so showing ads on the home screen [1], doing pointless UI
       | redesigns that waste screen space [2], adding features people
       | actively DO not want [3], and breaking the mobile app [4] are
       | _NOT_ good ways to increase userbase? Who knew?
       | 
       | [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
       | tech/ne...
       | 
       | [2] https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/please-dont-remove-the-
       | compa...
       | 
       | [3] https://www.guidingtech.com/disable-pocket-firefox-
       | desktop-m...
       | 
       | [4]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/ic8uwm/new_update_...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jqpabc123 wrote:
       | By design, Firefox supports and reports to sugar daddy Google.
       | Nothing really "private" about that.
       | 
       | https://www.googlewatchdog.com/how-tos/how-to-eradicate-goog...
        
         | jsiepkes wrote:
         | >Step 2. Turn off "safe browsing". >Firefox has a feature
         | called "safe browsing" which reports information about your
         | browsing to Google.
         | 
         | I'm no fan of Google's practices but that list is just fear
         | mongering. For example Google safe browsing just downloads a
         | blocklist. It doesn't send any browsing data to Google.
        
           | jqpabc123 wrote:
           | Their block list excludes Google which has trackers embedded
           | in the majority of web sites.
           | 
           | There is nothing really "private" about that.
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Do you understand that safe browsing is an anti-malware and
             | anti-phishing system that has nothing to do with tracking?
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | Do you understand that Firefox boasts "privacy by design"
               | but does very little to promote it?
               | 
               | If you have no problem with this, you might as well use
               | Chrome.
        
               | wmf wrote:
               | I agree that Firefox could do a lot more for privacy by
               | default but let's be accurate in our criticisms.
        
               | SahAssar wrote:
               | The question was specifically about a feature that is not
               | about privacy, but about malware and phishing.
        
               | jatone wrote:
               | so go use chrome if its clearly no different as you say.
               | personally i'll stick with firefox.
        
               | jqpabc123 wrote:
               | In case you didn't notice, the article is about lots of
               | people doing this.
        
       | silvi9 wrote:
       | Not a huge fan of the new Firefox Proton UI, the tabs look more
       | like buttons and I found the previous design a lot more
       | streamlined. The new design doesn't feel as usable as it should
       | be IMO, and it'll be a reason for me to move to another browser
       | if the design isn't updated in the future.
       | 
       | At the moment, I've switched off Proton in the about:config
       | section, but it's only a matter of time before this will no
       | longer be an option. Hopefully Firefox will go back to the old UI
       | or at least make some changes!
        
         | bcrl wrote:
         | I loathe the days that window managers and apps decide to steal
         | multiple pixels vertically for useless appearance
         | "improvements". Thank you for making less content visible on my
         | screen.
        
           | _Microft wrote:
           | Firefox (currently) has a setting called
           | _browser.compactmode.show_ which makes the UI more compact
           | when set to true. You might want to check it out?
           | 
           | Using this setting, tab bar plus navigation bar take up 72
           | pixels vertically.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | readflaggedcomm wrote:
       | >Just since the beginning of 2021, and according to StatCounter,
       | Firefox may have lost
       | 
       | Who _doesn 't_ block statcounter.com!?
       | 
       | Edit: Apparently the guy following my comments works for them.
        
       | jsiepkes wrote:
       | I'm hanging in there with Firefox as a matter of principle. Since
       | Gecko is the only alternative engine left. However under Linux I
       | feel the performance is worse then under Windows. On Windows
       | Firefox performance feels closer to Chrome's performance.
        
       | elmerfud wrote:
       | I've switched to Firefox on mobile because Google keeps forcing
       | the garbage tab layout on me.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-21 23:02 UTC)