[HN Gopher] Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list...
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Ask HN: for senior positions is it advisable to list side projects
on your CV?
I worked really hard on two side projects during the pandemic that
I am quite proud of (here you can take a peek if you like):
www.hopupon.com, www.audiobookmate.com When I was younger I used
to list side projects on my cv and employers used to take notice. I
find now they don't seem to care, usually are only interested in
employment history and tech tests. I also wonder whether side
projects speak to the fact that you're not concerned enough with
your employer's bottom line. I remember when Ken Cosgrove, in Mad
Men, had a side gig as an author and got published in a magazine.
Roger Sterling told him, quite sternly, he had to choose between
the job and the gig. The thing is I would actually appreciate if a
potential employer asked me about the above two projects. I think
they demonstrate some of my skills and would be interesting to
discuss. What do you guys think: Do you guys still list your side
projects? What about for jobs more senior than senior developer?
Author : jcroll
Score : 46 points
Date : 2021-07-21 12:18 UTC (10 hours ago)
| throwaway_2047 wrote:
| To me it is a huge plus. There are a lot to tell by looking at
| the side projects. At earlier stage start-ups, where interview
| process is not that rigid, it helps interviewer (at least for me)
| to gauge many aspect at once. Candidates love talking about their
| own project than anything. For me side project is a shortcut to
| peek into applicant's mind
| amalfra wrote:
| Have the right pedigree and brand in resume is what all it
| matters in my experience for getting interviews easily. And all
| these with interview skills and having good profile itself would
| make interview round go really well and for people to even
| consider you worthy. From my experience here in India all these
| right credentials matter really more than Github and all these
| hacker type things.
| intellectronica wrote:
| Yes, sometimes, but you need to have a good sense for what is
| actually impressive to the people reviewing you, not just impress
| yourself (and you are the easiest person to impress).
|
| Merely the fact that you put in the time to build something isn't
| going to be that impressive for someone considering you for a
| senior role. They'll want to know that your work was valuable to
| others, that it had impact. So if you just built something for
| fun or as an exercise, I don't think it's worth showing it. But
| if you wrote or contributed to a popular open-source project, or
| built something that is used by a large number of people, or you
| got published somewhere respectable, or you were successful in
| achieving some impressive goal like helping a community you care
| about, do share.
|
| Make sure to explain how your work was impactful with numbers,
| quotes, use-cases, etc...
| presidentender wrote:
| Historically when interviewing candidates I put more weight on
| side projects the shorter the resume was. A brand new college
| grad who made an impressive-looking portfolio web site got extra
| consideration.
|
| But interviewers are still human beings, and so a link to a
| visually impressive, interactive and accessible side project will
| probably get you some credit. My favorites were multi-player
| games.
|
| If the side project makes money, that's a whole 'nother
| consideration. Everyone is likely to be impressed.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| The best way to get a job is not to need it.
|
| Not needing it is conveyed in a thousand ways. Personally, I
| think being your authentic self is the most important aspect. If
| you're proud of your work, list it! Side project or not, it's
| still your work and is a reflection of the kind of work you can
| do for them.
|
| I don't think senior vs junior is particularly relevant. People
| care about your work history, but as long as your projects are
| listed under "other" then there shouldn't be any confusion.
| slumpt_ wrote:
| I make brief mention of them. Like a couple sentence blurb about
| stuff I build when I choose to spend my free time that way.
|
| That said, I work a full week as it is so I don't invest a ton in
| them. Just when an idea grabs me.
| jkingsbery wrote:
| I do a fair amount of helping interview senior positions at my
| current company. At the risk of saying something obvious: when
| interviewing senior people, the goal is to figure out whether
| they will do well operating at a senior level. Senior engineers
| usually bring two things to a team: a broader and deeper
| technical knowledge, and the ability to help influence and
| structure larger projects (doing larger scale designs, reviewing
| designs and code from other engineers, helping mentor more junior
| engineers, things like that). Side projects can sometimes help
| inform someone's technical abilities, but it's rare for people to
| have a side project where they are doing a lot of the
| "influencing others" part of the job.
|
| But, yeah, if you put in the work, it shouldn't hurt to list your
| side projects. But also, keep them in perspective: don't bring
| them up simply because they would be "interesting to discuss." By
| their nature, side projects don't deal with a lot of challenges
| of professional projects: there's usually no deadline, there's no
| disagreements with other engineers, they deal with a smaller
| scale audience so don't deal with bugs and maintenance.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| I think the takeaway was actually Roger Sterling was mistaken
| there, and it later came back to bite him.
|
| At any rate one question I have had in the last few years (maybe
| due to age) is how do you keep up on latest technologies - I then
| have side projects and articles I can point to as a way to learn
| new things.
| sputknick wrote:
| I've hired junior developers, and senior PMs, but never senior
| developers, so take my recommendations with a grain of salt. I
| would definitely continue to include side projects on your CV,
| especially if:
|
| 1. they are technologies you are unfamiliar with. It's an easy
| and effective way to demonstrate that you are eager to learn new
| things.
|
| 2. they are emerging technologies (crypto, VR, AI, etc). In most
| organizations being a senior engineer who doesn't get "stuck" or
| complacent is a plus.
|
| I'm not sure why employers would not be looking at those things,
| they definitely should be, it's a treasure trove of information
| as to who you are and how you think.
| gdubs wrote:
| I suggest you zoom out a little and consider that landing a great
| job isn't about checking boxes -- it's about demonstrating how
| you'll be awesome at helping whatever organization you're
| applying to do what they do, and hopefully do it even better than
| they're doing it today.
|
| So the answer to your question really depends on the specific
| job, and what you think the side projects demonstrate. Do they
| show off great problem solving ability? Organizational capacity?
| Team building? Tenacity? Etc.
| dmuth wrote:
| Oh god yes!
|
| When I'm interviewing someone, especially for a senior position,
| I want to make sure that they know what they say they know on
| their resume. Having code up on GitHub, or an actual working side
| project is a great way to show those things off.
|
| Even code that doesn't look great, but shows that some level of
| effort was made to learn a new technology is okay. If anything,
| it then gives me a jumping off point in the interview to ask the
| candidate about that project, why it's in that state, why certain
| decisions were made, etc.
|
| I am seriously having a difficult time thinking of downsides in
| listing a personal project, so I say go for it.
| qudat wrote:
| I think personal projects help you get your foot in the door but
| they do nothing to accelerate or skip parts of the interview
| process.
| milliondollar wrote:
| Depends on definition of "senior". If you are still an individual
| contributor and need to demonstrate technical expertise, fine.
| But if you are a manager, you need to demonstrate the ability to
| lead, create impact, and deliver results. Side projects are for
| entertainment / continuing education.
| Rapzid wrote:
| From the recent bit of looking around I have done for Senior and
| Staff roles the typical process after screening is;
|
| * Behavioral interview(s)
|
| * Some form of pair coding excercise
|
| * System design interview
|
| Side projects have never really come up explicitly, but my GitHub
| profile is included in my deets and I'm sure people have viewed
| it.
| yakshaving_jgt wrote:
| As an employer, I'm keen to see people show side projects _that
| they follow through with_.
|
| It's one thing having the technical skills to be able to write
| code and build a product. It's another thing entirely to have the
| focus and discipline to actually get all the work done. The side
| projects you listed look as though substantial effort went in to
| them. You said you're proud, and you ought to be. They certainly
| should impress any potential employer!
| wpietri wrote:
| Different people review resumes differently. Here's my take:
|
| Important questions for me include: Can they build things? Do
| they have enough experience dealing with real-world deployments
| to avoid common pitfalls? Do they care about the domain? How long
| will they stick around?
|
| You're correct that they're going to be of the most help early
| on, because they demonstrate real-world experience with
| production software. It's a great sign you'll be able to take a
| vaguely-specified user need and get something valuable done in
| production. But even more senior resumes sometimes still leave me
| wondering if they've worked at sufficiently big/bureaucratic
| places.
|
| Assuming your resume demonstrates competence without the
| projects, then yes, they could just as easily count against you
| as for you.
|
| If the project is one that's related to the domain and/or the
| tech stack, that's a positive sign that you're interested in what
| we're actually doing, and so joining us would give you something
| you could be very engaged in.
|
| Otherwise, I'm going to be concerned that we're going to have to
| compete for your time and attention with your side project. That
| this is a day job you're just doing until the side project takes
| off. I might hire somebody like that, but one of the things I
| think about when hiring is ROI on my time, so if I can get
| somebody as good who is likely to focus better and stay longer,
| I'll hire them instead.
|
| The particular side projects you list are of the kind that would
| be most concerning to me. They look like attempts to build actual
| businesses. And you have two of them going at once, which is a
| bad sign: if you can't focus on one of your commercial projects
| long enough to make is successful, maybe you won't focus on your
| actual job either. And there's something cold and unappealing
| about both of them to me. They are trying to compete with full
| commercial sites and prominently say they're the best, but when I
| try them out it doesn't seem that way.
|
| In contrast, the kind of side project that I'd react positively
| to in more senior engineers is one that demonstrates competence
| without looking like it will be competitive, and bonus points if
| it's related to the domain somehow. Modest open-source projects,
| for example. Twitter bots. Niche Twilio apps. Small, fun services
| like mcbroken.com or typelit.io.
|
| To me things like that indicate enjoyment of the work, a desire
| to create things, and an interest in serving users, all positive
| traits. But they do so without giving me questions about whether
| they employee will be able to focus on what they're getting paid
| for.
| dboreham wrote:
| Yes. Resume is an instrument for getting through a fairly
| unintelligent filter so probably nobody will even notice that
| these were side projects at the resume filtering stage. Be
| prepared to answer interview questions about how you have
| sufficient spare time to work on two projects at once though.
| choff wrote:
| Off-topic feedback on your side project - audiobookmate.
|
| I really enjoy the layout of the site, and it feels very natural
| to navigate. A feature I'd appreciate is a small modal popup on-
| hover whenever my mouse sat on top of an audio book's cover for a
| couple seconds, providing a synopsis and maybe the reviews for
| the current book I'm hovering. (See Goodreads for an example of
| this)
|
| Otherwise, great job on both sites.
| rsyring wrote:
| To hiring folks: find better ways to evaluate candidates than a
| resume. Preferably an evidenced based assessment that measures
| actual skills for the job and not the esoteric witchcraft
| required to discern what _you_ think is important in a resume.
|
| The only thing I look for in a resume is number of years doing
| development and a very rough assessment that the experience there
| fits with what we asked for in the job description. Beyond that,
| we have questionnaires that ask the specific questions we care
| about and real world work simulations that attempt to measure fit
| for the position.
|
| To the OP: the better teams shouldn't care too much about
| something like this. But, I'd say add it. It shows you like
| programming enough to tinker. That's a positive signal to me.
| But, I'd never dock a candidate if they said they don't do side
| projects because they have other ways they'd like to use their
| time outside work.
| wpietri wrote:
| Yeah, I agree with you on evidenced-based assessment. Our
| hiring process has two practical portions meant to mirror
| important parts of the daily work. It lets me care very little
| about resumes as far as technical skill goes. Sometimes
| colleagues will ask about a candidate, "Where did they go to
| school?" I will have no idea, because I don't care.
|
| That said, resumes are still useful to me for things I can't
| test in a couple hours. E.g.: How long is this person likely to
| stay? What motivates them? What kinds of environment are they
| used to/comfortable in?
| Tade0 wrote:
| Recruiters are mostly interested in the things other people paid
| you to do - because it shows that it's safe to pay you as well.
|
| I list such things as "web presence" along with my GitHub
| account, "technical blog"(heavy quotes here) and LinkedIn
| profile. I think only that last one ever gets clicked on.
|
| Large companies especially don't care about such things, because
| they need you to fill a highly specific role, not one that would
| make use of the broad skillset required to release your own
| product.
| jstx1 wrote:
| Is the last part really true? I think large companies often
| hire much more broadly and some don't even have a specific
| position/team for you until you go through the matching process
| after you start the job.
| CodeGlitch wrote:
| The best bang for buck would be to spend your spare time gaining
| a certification, for example Java, CompTIA, AWS, Azure, etc. This
| IMHO is far better on your CV then a side-project, as it shows a
| willingness to perform continued learning. Your side project
| could be using tools and techniques that you learnt decades ago,
| which could be fine but my org is only interested in cutting-edge
| stuff (for example).
| mxuribe wrote:
| > ...Your side project could be using tools and techniques that
| you learnt decades ago, which could be fine but my org is only
| interested in cutting-edge stuff...
|
| Or, perhaps the inverse could be the case, where i learned
| cutting-edge stuff for my side project, but at enterprise,
| sorry, they're only using legacy Java (for example), so can't
| really use my cutting edge experience, etc. Now, as far as
| certs, i agree that they should help get through the door, but
| wonder if pairing them with discussions about experiences
| gained on a side project - to play with the knowledge learned
| from said certs - would be an even better combo? If i was
| hiring, and saw that a person got some certs (and maybe checks
| some needed box), but also has interests in side project,
| again, for the experience of it...then that is well above
| average for sure (at least in my eyes).
| posharma wrote:
| If you care about only FAANGM companies, leetcode is all that you
| need. No one at these companies care about your side projects.
| jstx1 wrote:
| They fit in different part of the hiring processs. A side
| project is something that potentially makes your resume more
| attractive and makes it more likely you get a
| callback/interview. Leetcode is a technical test which comes
| later.
|
| Being the best leetcoder doesn't make a difference if you don't
| get an interview.
| TameAntelope wrote:
| I've been hiring a couple of senior positions, and so far the
| most appropriate way I've seen side projects highlighted is with
| a link to the applicant's GitHub.
|
| Honestly, finding a well maintained and substantive project in a
| person's GitHub would impress me, and that candidate would
| certainly stand out. So often people link their GitHub accounts,
| but when I visit, I only see toy projects and book exercises.
|
| As part of my hiring process I've been giving out a simple take
| home coding challenge, but I offer to instead review a project
| you've already been working on if that's your preference, because
| I feel bad making people do work for a job they don't even have
| yet (I haven't been able to convince my boss to let me pay people
| for their time on the take home challenge yet).
| pdovy wrote:
| Personally I will always look through side projects or a GitHub
| if it's on a candidates resume. It's another source of signal and
| can be really valuable especially if there is code to look
| through.
|
| That said as the role gets more senior the value of the signal
| goes down IMO. Side projects are typically done solo, and are
| small-ish in scope. Whereas a key function of a good senior IC,
| at least in my opinion, is to be a force multiplier more than a
| heads-down coder.
| relaunched wrote:
| There are two plays you can make by listing a side project. For
| example, if the project is in some way commensurate to the role.
| For example, if you are applying for a VP of engineering job at a
| large technology company and your side project is co-author and
| commit rights to a major open source project, say Python or a
| well known and use library and you're actively involved.
|
| Or, if it's on the resume to demonstrate you're still actively
| hands on and you believe that is valuable to the role.
|
| However, if you wouldn't talk about it in an interview, don't put
| it on your resume. If it wouldn't help you get the job, I
| wouldn't talk about it in the interview.
| austincheney wrote:
| My experience is that side projects are 90% ignored. They are
| treated strictly as line items like education.
|
| I got furious tired of this so on my last resume I treated my
| employment history strictly as employment history. A list of
| employers with dates and dates of promotions plus a sentence or
| two what I worked on. Supremely lowered emphasis.
|
| I also put my personal projects into a separate section above my
| employment history. Between my personal projects and employment
| history I put in a small two paragraph section for personal bio.
| In this bio I mention how long I have been programming, some of
| my accomplishments. I also explicitly mention to carefully
| consider my personal projects to make an informed decision if I
| will be a good fit for their organization and that two of my
| personal projects contain over a thousand commits. I follow up
| that up with a mention that I am not waiting on administrative
| approval or a budget authorization to innovate and that these
| personal projects are years of experience other developers do not
| have.
|
| This a recent change I have made so I cannot say if it's
| successful.
| w4llstr33t wrote:
| Depends on if you are concerned if your new potential employer
| has an issue with employees moonlighting or not.
| pryelluw wrote:
| I do mention my side open source side projects, but not side
| hustles.
| mxuribe wrote:
| I was going to mention that if you somehow turned your side
| project into a side hustle, that could be received well,
| because it shows you were able to evolve your project into the
| business (maybe even monetization) direction...but that would
| require really careful, nuanced explanation...so i defer my
| position to what @PragmaticPulp rightly stated about being very
| careful in how that distinction is presented (to avoid concerns
| around distractions, etc.).
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| This is a good distinction.
|
| Side projects = Fun project that demonstrates skills
|
| Side business = Ongoing obligation that could distract from
| your job.
|
| Be careful in how you present them.
| xcambar wrote:
| You want your side projects to help you get the job. They must
| demonstrate as achievements instead of hobbies.
|
| For this reason, I'd default to no, don't list side projects,
| unless you make it a strong argument for the position you're
| applying to.
|
| Are you a major contributor to a tech used in company? Have you
| written a book about it? Did you grow a community? Have you
| reached significant traction or revenue?
|
| Any yes to one of the above, if they relate to the position, can
| hint you into mentioning your side project.
|
| Other than that, your side project will be seen as a hobby and
| not an achievement, and will be disregarded.
|
| Note: some nuances may apply, so take this as the generic advice
| it's meant to be.
| jcroll wrote:
| I like your answer I just wonder: I used this project to teach
| myself kubernetes. If someone asks me how I know kubernetes
| what do I say? I suppose I say it was on a side project I did
| xcambar wrote:
| Then by all means mention the project. To me, what matters in
| this specific answer is not the side project, but the
| learning opportunity and associated curiosity.
|
| All bonus points, especially if the company uses k8s or if
| you can answer aptly "why did you choose k8s?"
|
| FWIW, I'd expect 3 kinds of answers: 1. "This was a right fit
| because..." 2. "I knew this was NOT a right fit but I wanted
| to learn" 3. "I thought it was the right fit but I was wrong
| because..."
| simonw wrote:
| When I'm hiring I consider "I learned that on a side-project"
| to be an extremely strong positive signal.
| mason55 wrote:
| Sure, people give me that answer all the time.
|
| If you actually went beyond basic setup and dealt with real
| enterprise/production level issues then make sure to point it
| out. I assume that "I learned it for a side project" means
| mostly happy path stuff.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > Other than that, your side project will be seen as a hobby
| and not an achievement, and will be disregarded.
|
| I think you've misunderstood the purpose of a side project for
| engineers. They're supposed to be hobby projects that
| demonstrate the developer's abilities as well as their
| commitment to following through on projects.
|
| The OP's projects are perfect for listing as completed side
| projects on a Senior Engineer resume. I wouldn't hesitate to
| include them on a resume and describe the technologies used to
| build them.
|
| You definitely don't need to demonstrate significant traction
| or revenue for an engineering side project, nor do you need to
| write a book about it or build a significant community around
| it. These are ridiculously high standards for including a
| development side project on a senior engineer resume.
|
| Frankly, if someone were to list "side projects" with
| significant revenue and a large community, I'm going to assume
| it's a business and not a side project. We'd have to have a
| conversation about how much time and energy it's going to take
| away from their employment, and how we can cleanly separate it
| from interfering with their job. Showing employers that you're
| running a side business with significant revenue and therefore
| significant needs isn't exactly a bonus when it comes to hiring
| someone. A fun side project that demonstrates their skills is a
| bonus, however.
| slumpt_ wrote:
| Generally only reading your last few jobs and educational
| background. Side project is fine to see but it's not going to
| be the differentiator. If you're getting an interview you're
| getting an interview.
|
| Side projects help junior candidates without relevant job
| experience most.
| incrudible wrote:
| > I think you've misunderstood the purpose of a side project
| for engineers.
|
| Perhaps, but you have to assume that many of those who are
| hiring will do exactly that. That's the meta-game.
|
| There's a basket of opinions in this thread and they are all
| valid and informative, even if they are mistaken.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "I think you've misunderstood the purpose of a side project
| for engineers. They're supposed to be hobby projects that
| demonstrate the developer's abilities as well as their
| commitment to following through on projects."
|
| Most managers at my company view side projects positively.
| One of the main reasons is that it shows the person has a
| creative mind and is at least a little passionate about
| technology/coding and learning on their own.
| victorvscn wrote:
| I'm not even an engineer but I have some HR training as a
| Psychologist and this resonates with me.
| ku-man wrote:
| Nowadays everybody can be an engineer, e.g.: growth
| engineer, GIS engineer, user interface engineer, game
| engineer, legal engineer... you could be an 'human
| interaction' engineer
| lumost wrote:
| aye - I don't list inactive projects, but some hobbies/side
| projects provide a small sense of what kind of person you
| are like and what it will be to work with you.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I wonder how I would fair in your evaluation of what I'm
| like if I have Android apps for ballistic energy
| calculations and a calculator for determining the alcohol
| needed for a party.
| lumost wrote:
| This isn't part of the evaluation, but it's a useful item
| to include for conversation starters. Whether these are
| useful conversation starters in a particular company is
| up to your judgement.
|
| If you are interviewing for an Alcohol friendly company
| then the calculator might be a fun side project that
| shows you know Android development. Raytheon would
| probably love the ballistic energy calculator. If your
| interviewing with the quaker church then both items will
| probably have you rejected for culture fit.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Most people chuckle when I demo the alcohol calculator.
| They especially like the drunkenness slider to select how
| drunk your guest are expected to get. I make sure to give
| them the background that it was an idea that I started in
| college. The ballistic one is extremely simple, but that
| was my first ever Android app and I chose it for that
| reason (didn't do a regular calculator because there are
| sooo many of them out there already).
|
| I might as well add the link. https://play.google.com/sto
| re/apps/details?id=com.blogspot.t...
| jacob_rezi wrote:
| As echoed from others, if the project is relevant and
| communicated in a way that brings value. Page space is an
| important consideration too.
|
| We've been working hard to build a library of the best
| engineering resumes we've seen - you can get an idea for best
| practices here - https://www.rezi.ai/resume-
| templates?search=developer&resume...
| Jenk wrote:
| I always ask candidates if they have anything to show off. I am
| _always_ more interested in what people do as a side project than
| I am of what they have done professionally.
|
| Hyperbole time but I think it conveys the message: People do side
| projects for better reaons than they do professionally. At worst
| it's because they want to quickly learn/achieve something for
| their next job. Compared to professional experience, where at
| best it's because they were paid to do it and any fun or whatever
| altruism is a byproduct.
|
| There are lashings upon lashings of caveats and nuance of course.
| For a senior role I will still be looking for interpersonal
| skills not just technical achievement. Part of being a senior is
| managing yourself, selling your ideas/concerns, mentoring and
| managing peers, and to some extent managing your managers.
|
| FWIW your side projects are great examples and I'd would be
| impressed.
| majewsky wrote:
| I appreciate your sentiment. At the same time, looking at side
| projects runs the risk of discriminating against qualified
| candidates who don't have time for side projects because of
| other commitments (e.g. childcare or care for elderly
| relatives) or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a
| work-life balance. How do you avoid treating such candidates
| unfairly?
| simonw wrote:
| I remind myself that I've worked with fantastic colleagues
| who don't run any side projects, and I definitely don't want
| to miss out on someone like that.
| Jenk wrote:
| Yes that's one of the many caveats. I myself have zero time
| for side projects due to family etc. so I am fully
| sympathetic.
|
| And side projects are side projects. I was fascinated by a
| candidate's beer brewing project (there are some very
| relatable skills in management and organisation, supply chain
| dependencies, etc) as one example of a non-tech side project.
| dannyw wrote:
| If I am trying to hire someone into my team, I want to make
| use of all relevant and appropriate signals that can help me
| make a better decision. I consider side projects to be an
| appropriate and often valuable signal.
|
| While it is unfortunate that side projects have some
| selection bias against those who are time-poor, it also feels
| wrong to me to discriminate against people who can
| demonstrate their skills and impress through their side
| projects.
|
| Like, if there are two candidates and all else are equal, and
| one has a really impressive side project that demonstrates
| positive traits (whether it's technical expertise, novelty,
| relevant skills, or communication/community), it's going to
| be hard to... actively ignore that?
| Osiris wrote:
| I am not an ideas guy. Give me a project and I'll build it.
| Ask me what I'd like to build and I'll have no idea.
|
| In 15 years I've had 1 side project. I'm a staff engineer.
| withinboredom wrote:
| I like to ask similar questions. If I was interviewing
| and that was your answer, I'd be just as impressed. Not
| everyone needs to be running around building things for
| fun.
|
| I've also had people show me pics of their wood working,
| mountains climbed, hunting trophies, and even 3d models.
| I think only one time did someone say they did nothing
| but take care of their spouse. We talked about that, as I
| have some experience there. My job is to see how you
| solve problems and ensure they're compatible with our
| problems, along with skill set, etc.
| dannyw wrote:
| That's fine and great. I never consider side projects to
| be a requirement, and I believe they never should be.
|
| It's just an additional piece of signal that may help a
| candidate when relevant; the same way doing great during
| the interview can help a candidate.
| catillac wrote:
| I'd say that asking if they have anything to show off and not
| discounting them if they don't is in bounds. Like extra
| credit that no one has to do and people can get the job
| without.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| As someone with kids and side projects, I have doubts about
| "not having time".
|
| I could do 2 hours of productivity after the kids go to sleep
| and I'd still have 2 hours for entertainment. I exercise too.
|
| So let's make it even more reasonable. How about 30 minutes,
| 4 times a week?
|
| >Meaningful progress
|
| So then do an hour or 2? I make progress in 30 minutes and
| sometimes keep going. If the point is for a resume, you could
| even do a 1 or 2 week sprint.
|
| I suppose you could even work on it while the kids are awake.
| My kids love Alphablocks.
|
| If you don't have a personal side project, the issue isn't
| children. It's desire.
| sha256kira wrote:
| I do find that I have time for side projects even with my
| wife and I working full time with a one year old but some /
| most weeks I feel like Im going to drop dead and that is in
| part because I find myself with little time for exercise
| and other self care. I just think its worth regurgitating
| the adage that every child really is different and so is
| every tech job. My friends that end up working till 9pm and
| on weekends regularly or have more demanding children are
| living in completely different realities and my heart goes
| out to them every day. With all this said my side projects
| end up being very consuming and not necessarily geared
| towards looking good on a resume.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| I should put an astrik that this is only feasible when
| working 40 hours a week.
|
| Beyond that and the burnout is real.
| fernandotakai wrote:
| it's not that i don't have time -- i do have time. but i
| don't want to write code as side projects anymore.
|
| i much rather do something else. play a videogame, read a
| book, watch series. i already work 8~10h a day, after that,
| i want chill and think about something else that is not
| code.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| Sure. The parent claimed there wasn't time.
|
| Btw have you considered something drastically different
| than your current code? Embedded comes to mind, it's half
| electrical engineering and lots of instant gratification.
|
| But in general, nonfiction books could help you ace an
| interview. I wowd some people by merely talking taoist
| philosophy and how despite having diverse skills, there's
| something to be said about sticking to your role.
| majewsky wrote:
| > The parent claimed there wasn't time.
|
| You forgot the second part of my sentence:
|
| > or who choose to pursue non-IT hobbies to keep a work-
| life balance
| journey_16162 wrote:
| I work on something which will either be a side project for
| CV or a small business if I'm lucky - in either case most
| of the work at the time relates to development. On a
| typical week I put 30 - 40h into it (I don't work full time
| so I can afford it) and it still goes so damn slow. And the
| project is not anything crazy, just a standard Electron
| desktop app.
|
| I can hardly imagine how someone could build anything at
| 2h/week. 30 min is barely enough time for the brain to
| switch gears.
|
| I fully get how someone does not have time for side
| projects - they have life besides work, while I barely do.
| simonw wrote:
| The trick is to cheat: Pick side projects which you know
| you can make substantial progress on in a small amount of
| time given your unique set of skills and experiences.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| I can either build a consumer friendly embedded project,
| or I can build one that I need to recompile when it's
| time to change settings.
|
| Both count for the interview purposes.
| Osiris wrote:
| You're right that it's not always about time. Some people,
| like me, are just idea poor. Or, our brains are so
| overworked from the day we can't concentrate at 10pm at
| night enough to do anything coherent.
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| I treat side projects as a "nice to have"
|
| Some of the best engineers I've worked with had exactly none,
| and very full lives outside of work. But you could tell they
| punched above their weight just by looking at the resume.
| shard wrote:
| I think it depends on just how senior this position is. Senior
| developer, sure. VP of engineering, no. Team lead, maybe. If
| you list side projects, it needs to scale with your position. A
| VP's side project would scale up to a viable business of its
| own, which then is no longer a side project but a work
| experience entry in the CV.
| runawaybottle wrote:
| I'd honestly list a side project that highlights the skills
| relevant to the job over a job where you used irrelevant skills.
|
| But you have to come strong with the side project. The site/app
| better be up, you better have a repo, and it better be something
| beyond a todo-app or a bootcamp project.
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