[HN Gopher] A reporter's fight to expose Epstein's crimes, and e...
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       A reporter's fight to expose Epstein's crimes, and earn a living
        
       Author : dsr12
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2021-07-18 16:53 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.is/4BSlw
        
       | gameswithgo wrote:
       | maybe this reporter at the nyt can talk to the one who doxxed a
       | blogger/journalist ruining his employment
        
       | CheezeIt wrote:
       | > Berman revealed little about what went on inside his office,
       | but said that his team was helped by "some excellent
       | investigative journalism." He was clearly referring to Julie K.
       | Brown's 2018 Miami Herald series "Perversion of Justice."
       | 
       | Well, this is a facile lie, unsurprising from the New York Times,
       | because before Brown, there was Alan Dershowitz and Mike
       | Cernovich (another journalist) suing to unseal documents, and
       | then Brown joined the party.
       | 
       | But that would undermine their morality play about newspapers and
       | their funding.
        
         | fttx_ wrote:
         | This seems dubious to me. Dershowitz appears to be deeply
         | personally implicated in Epstein's crimes.
         | 
         | Brown has been investigating Epstein since early 2017. I can't
         | see any evidence of Cernovich being involved that early. Do you
         | have any?
         | 
         | In fact, Cernovich and Dershowitz working together and "suing
         | to unseal documents" looks like it's that started in 2019, and
         | while Dershowitz clearly has personal reasons for his
         | involvement it looks like Cernovich's involvement is in fact
         | directly in response to Brown's reporting.
        
       | tunesmith wrote:
       | It seems like there's a centralization mismatch - the revenue
       | model of journalism has centralized, while regional corruption
       | hasn't. So unless centralized journalism starts to demonstrate a
       | real ability to quickly allocate resources to local school
       | boards, city councils, etc, there's a real arbitrage opportunity
       | for your garden-variety local corrupt official to get away with
       | shenanigans without much of a check on their power.
        
       | lifeisstillgood wrote:
       | The problem here is we are being asked to "defend democracy and
       | truth" by funding one or two decent journalists who will dig up
       | the truth, and with one front page story solve all our problems.
       | 
       | We are just outsourcing the hard work.
       | 
       | Defending truth and justice (whatever that means) is something we
       | pay a fortune for in our taxes, police, judges, prisons, mental
       | health and drug addiction clinics - all of this is supposed to
       | spot the criminals in our society and stop them.
       | 
       | I think we need to consider why some people get away with certain
       | crimes, and build the institutions to stop that - it please
       | journalist will stumble on the story
        
         | southerntofu wrote:
         | I agree with your reasoning, but i strongly disagree with the
         | core assumption that more power structures can solve the
         | issues, as i believe they are the source of most problems you
         | are pointing to.
         | 
         | People being in positions of privilege and power is precisely
         | why they can get away with certain crimes. The institutions to
         | build to stop that cannot be centralized like social-democracy
         | advocates, but have to be fully democratic, as in run directly
         | by the people and for the people. Electing our next masters
         | every 4 years (5 where i'm from) is not democracy. Democracy is
         | about seizing power, not about giving it away to soulless
         | sociopaths.
         | 
         | If you believe democracy is a term that's been emptied out of
         | meaning, i'd recommend reading some anarchist literature as
         | another take on what democracy can (should?) look like.
        
       | ummonk wrote:
       | I wish there were a way for me to pay directly for original
       | reporting like this without having to pay for editorials.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure it's fair to say that the opinion pages are one
         | of the cheaper aspects associated with a newspaper.
        
           | ummonk wrote:
           | That might be the case, but newspapers seem to devote an
           | enormous amount of space to opinion. It's especially stark
           | compared to my favored medium for local news: local news
           | channels - which incidentally tend to be profitable.
        
       | imgabe wrote:
       | It's bonkers to me that "Epstein didn't kill himself" is a joke.
       | Like here's a known pedophile and sex trafficker connected to
       | almost every powerful person in the world who was very very very
       | obviously murdered to prevent him from testifying about something
       | and the reaction of the mainstream media is "haha, that's weird,
       | anyway..."
        
         | derbOac wrote:
         | My strong impression over the last couple of decades is for
         | journalists to take many things at face value and defer to
         | "experts" without digging into things like potential conflicts
         | of interests or motives etc. So if you have a set of experts
         | saying "Epstein killed himself," even if those experts have
         | conflicts of interest and/or were appointed by those with CoI,
         | a lot of journalists will defer. I think a similar phenomenon
         | was in play with the lab leak hypothesis, various things
         | related to Erdogan in Turkey, Russian assassinations in the UK,
         | reporting over the Mueller Report, and a host of other things.
         | 
         | I don't think all journalists are like this, and I understand
         | where they're coming from, but increasingly reading between the
         | lines and/or interpreting stated conclusions in the context of
         | human motives seems lost on a lot of journalists and/or
         | journalism outlets. It leads to these weird situations where
         | _something_ is very _obviously_ off about a situation but you
         | can 't get someone to say something on the record, so things
         | are just shrugged off, taken at face value, and you're led to
         | doubt your own logic.
         | 
         | Often but not always eventually journalists can get someone to
         | say something on the record, and then it's treated like some
         | big revelation. Journalists getting intelligence experts to
         | acknowledge "no it's not really likely someone could kill
         | themselves and then afterwards stuff themselves into a black
         | body bag and zip it up." Then everyone is like "oh ok I wasn't
         | losing my sanity" and there's some correction. But sometimes
         | it's just left to historians to pick up the threads.
         | 
         | I'm not saying anything about Epstein or anything in
         | particular, and there's a need to avoid going down conspiracy
         | rabbit holes. But I wish there was more nuance in coverage
         | sometimes, to acknowledge that something weird or shady is
         | going on while acknowledging there's no evidence for anything
         | in particular.
        
       | daenz wrote:
       | Isn't it disturbing how we all just sort of stopped hearing about
       | the Epstein case? Doesn't that reveal the stranglehold of
       | censorship that powerful people have on the media, when there is
       | a clear risk to their financial interests and reputations?
       | 
       | The story should have been headlining for a year as every sordid
       | fact was uncovered, but people seem to have largely forgotten
       | about it. Everyone seemed to be aligned against this person and
       | what they did, but somehow the media didn't care much to dig into
       | the details. I doubt your average person could mention more than
       | a couple of high profile people that Epstein rubbed shoulders
       | with (Likely "Trump" and "Bill Clinton").
        
         | bcraven wrote:
         | You presumably stopped hearing about it as he was arrested and
         | then died. You can't prosecute a dead man, and there's no
         | closure for the victims.
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | I'm guessing he had tons of tape on people who didn't like
           | that one bit, hence the "suicide." I was hoping to see
           | something come of that, at the very least a conviction for
           | his sidekick Ghislaine.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | It's a very difficult story to report on because
         | 
         | 1) the people who own your institution may be involved on some
         | level,
         | 
         | 2) all legitimate sources of novel material information will
         | have been destroyed,
         | 
         | 3) interviews are worthless because everybody _who we know
         | about_ who would have anything interesting to say are also both
         | implicated and endangered, and there are so many kooks claiming
         | to know things that it would be impossible to sort them out of
         | the people _who we don 't know about._
         | 
         | It's bizarre that we even think that this story would have an
         | outcome. A number of the completely arbitrary people we shower
         | laurels on under crony capitalism like to have sex with
         | runaway/endangered teenagers under completely safe and shielded
         | circumstances. They disguised payment by parking money in a
         | fake (investment fund/tax advisory structure/real estate
         | partnership) with a guy who spent his entire life procuring for
         | and protecting them. He probably kept blackmail material that
         | got him out of the first prosecution, and lost control of that
         | blackmail material before the next prosecution.
         | 
         | Clinton's sanctions on Iraq killed a half million children.
         | That's more important than the fact that he may have abused
         | teenagers on a sex plane/island, and he still speaks at the
         | Democratic convention. We know that he manipulated a young
         | intern into sex while on the job, and suspect he may be a
         | serial sex abuser/rapist, and we try to make his wife
         | president. We all know about "pussy-grabbing" Trump.
         | 
         | We need to get over the delusion that sunlight solves problems.
         | Sunlight often makes problems seem commonplace and therefore
         | unimportant. There would be nothing to expect out of a full
         | exposure of Epstein and his network of associates other than a
         | few old men going to jail, and being replaced by people just as
         | bad. It's just something we desire out of prurient interest.
         | 
         | If we're really interested, we create social and political
         | structures that either limit the ability of the wealthy to
         | operate with impunity (a pointless effort IMO, because money
         | _is_ power), or limit the ability to become that wealthy. This
         | is assuming we think that one of the purposes of government is
         | to defend the weak from the strong. Maybe we don 't care about
         | that, and abused teens are just another cost to maintain a
         | desirable status quo, like half a million Iraqi children.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | The whispers are that Epstein was in "intelligence"
         | (CIA/Mossad/etc).
         | 
         | I assume those organizations can silence investigative
         | journalism that would expose their inner workings.
        
           | adambatkin wrote:
           | Those whispers must be pretty quiet. Do you have any sources
           | for this?
        
             | shrubble wrote:
             | Alex Acosta told the Trump transition team that interviewed
             | him that Epstein was 'intelligence' see:
             | https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-
             | intelligenc... and many other sources besides.
             | 
             | Former Attorney General Bill Barr's father was involved in
             | the Dalton School. (Edit: he was headmaster of Dalton
             | School from 1964 to 1974).
             | 
             | Barr's father previously got Epstein a job teaching at the
             | Dalton School.
             | 
             | Barr's father also wrote a creepy novel called Space
             | Relations that involves a subplot of an enslaved teenager
             | used to breed more slaves; there are other odd sexually
             | charged subplots involving underaged girls as well.
             | 
             | Epstein discussed with others the idea of breeding many
             | women... the coincidences sure seem odd, at the least.
        
             | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
             | It's on wikipedia. It's circumstantial not a smoking gun,
             | but it seems very clear Gislane Maxwell's dad was connected
             | to Mossad.
             | 
             | My personal view is that Epstein was essentially a
             | blackmailer, that was occasionally useful in passing
             | information to intelligence agencies as a result of his
             | activities.
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | How could this not be an Intel opp? He ran in plain site
             | for decades with token prosecution.
        
             | the_optimist wrote:
             | These whispers have been around for decades in certain
             | circles, even before the weird Florida non-prosecution. The
             | singularly most public, appropriately caveated, responsible
             | discussion of this comes through Eric Weinstein, here:
             | 
             | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/25-the-construct-
             | jeffr...
        
             | 6nf wrote:
             | When Epstein was convicted the first time, in 2008, the
             | prosecutor got told to let him go because he was a CIA
             | asset. He got a deal that included only a few months in
             | jail.
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | This Observer article from 2019 covers most of it:
             | https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-
             | intelligenc...
        
         | hasbot wrote:
         | Him becoming dead might have something to do with it.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | I wouldn't mind paying for quality journalism, and thus support
       | journalists like Ms Brown.
       | 
       | However, a digital subscription to (say) the NYT costs $4.75/week
       | (regular rate), whereas print version costs $10. I can't share it
       | with my family member. It costs so much more to actually deliver
       | a physical newspaper, and printing it costs so much more. With
       | the digital version, I can get targeted advertising, unlike the
       | shotgun approach of print. So why does digital cost so much?
       | 
       | Unlike print, I am able to access digital versions of almost any
       | newspaper out there effortlessly. This makes it much easier to
       | browse around and cherry-pick stories from different sources.
       | Having to pay individually for every source is untenable.
       | 
       | Why doesn't the newspaper industry work with companies like
       | Google and Facebook to come up with a workable system that
       | rewards journalists appropriately, without gouging readers?
       | 
       | For example, I'd be willing to pay, say, $100/year for full
       | access to every (major) newspaper out there. Let Google track my
       | reading and then at the end of the year, divide up this $100
       | proportionally to the consumption at each of the sources.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > It costs so much more to actually deliver a physical
         | newspaper, and printing it costs so much more. [Compared to a
         | digital newspaper distributed over the internet.]
         | 
         | It is not obvious that either of these claims is true. What do
         | you think the marginal cost of one printing is? One delivery?
         | 
         | Mail delivery is quite literally the paradigm example of
         | something that is expensive if you do it once but essentially
         | free at scale.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | southerntofu wrote:
         | > I wouldn't mind paying for quality journalism, and thus
         | support journalists like Ms Brown.
         | 
         | I don't know in the english-speaking world, apart from the
         | Intercept who i understand has its own internal controversies,
         | but in the french-speaking world we have a few independent
         | publications, like CQFD, L'envolee, Le Monde Libertaire,
         | Mediapart, Le Canard Enchaine... I assume it's the same on your
         | side of the ocean and they're just not well known?
         | 
         | > Let Google track my reading
         | 
         | Why would you need tracking? There's some donation-based
         | subscriptions for publications, and a centralized donation
         | dashboard sounds amazing. Liberapay and similar donation-based
         | platforms are good for that kind of stuff.
         | 
         | Also, how would you actually measure? Size in bytes of content?
         | Number of characters? Time spent? Is there any metric that can
         | be fair to all and cannot be gamed to maximize profits while
         | not providing quality content?
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Tracking makes sense in this case--divvying up the amount
           | received according to which articles you read. Basically
           | Kindle Unlimited for newspapers.
        
             | southerntofu wrote:
             | According to what criteria, as i was asking in my parent
             | comment? I don't think we can find a fair one.
             | 
             | Also Kindle Unlimited, what's that? Is that like
             | spotify/netflix for ebooks? I'm personally hostile to
             | private companies operating such schemes, but as a public
             | service it sounds like it may make sense.
             | 
             | Of course, the tracking is unacceptable either way, and we
             | should pursue better models in order to finance cultural
             | productions. Hint: the answers are the same as for every
             | other area of activities (including free software), just
             | redistribute the **ing wealth already, which the people who
             | "own" it didn't produce.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | What happens to that model when someone starts reporting at
         | Google, FB, NYT, Wash Post, etc. is tracking your every scroll
         | and click? And does this biz model actually promote higher
         | quality journalism? Anecdotally, it doesn't look that way.
         | 
         | I'm not sure what the solution is but giving more powerful to
         | the powerful is not a sustainable route to fixing The Fourth
         | Estate.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | The short answer is that "targeted" (and we know how well that
         | works) or not, digital advertising isn't nearly as lucrative as
         | print advertising was. The old rule of thumb was that
         | subscriptions/newsstand sales paid for the distribution of the
         | physical paper. Advertising paid for everything else.
         | 
         | Digital subscriptions obviously don't incur the same physical
         | distribution costs Although a fair bit still exists so long as
         | you're going to have a physical paper and the digital
         | production has its own costs. (Digital plus physical costs more
         | than physical alone.)
         | 
         | In any case, how many people who won't pay $100/year for the
         | NYT--plus maybe another $100/year for something like The
         | Economist will pay $100-200/year for a broad-based subscription
         | to a bunch of different pubs?
        
           | cromulent wrote:
           | Yes, For example, nearly all job advertisements used to be in
           | newspapers. Rivers of gold, they were called in the
           | Australian print media. All that revenue is long gone from
           | newspapers.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | The collapse of the classifieds--and I'm guessing job
             | adverts around the same time--were the first dagger into US
             | newspaper profitability.
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | I love Apple News and think it had real potential.
         | 
         | But then lots of the 'premium' became like extra premium.
         | 
         | Even though I still pay for it premium articles included now
         | are mostly magazines, which the New Yorker and Businessweek are
         | good but most are like lifestyle I don't really care about.
         | 
         | I would like WaPo back in the bundle and same with adding
         | NyTimes.
         | 
         | I'd pay another $5 a month but seems like the big papers make
         | more themselves even with smaller % of readers.
         | 
         | Seems like streaming is going the same way.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Digital gets you access to the archives
        
           | southerntofu wrote:
           | Good point, but do you think it's beneficial to humanity,
           | research and education, and political critique that newspaper
           | archives are locked down behind subscription?
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | You can probably find libraries with subscriptions. Someone
             | has to pay for it.
        
               | southerntofu wrote:
               | A library with subscriptions has quite a lot of
               | infrastructure to maintain. A digital archive of
               | published newspapers can be maintained by a single worker
               | using off-the-shelf hardware for an annual budget lesser
               | than the salary of a single newspaper exec, or even
               | better a community project like archive.org or Wikimedia
               | Commons who's dedicated to that kind of stuff.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | So who is paying the organization that created the
               | information in the first place? That's the cost. The cost
               | of a local library subscribing to a service is fairly
               | trivial. My tiny local library subscribes to a number of
               | them. The cost is the subscription which goes to paying
               | licensing fees.
        
               | southerntofu wrote:
               | Subsidizing the cost of current production of stuff
               | (whether hardware or immaterial) is an actual concern.
               | The easiest solution of course is to abolish money and
               | private property and to abundantly redistribute power and
               | wealth, but that's not happening anytime soon as
               | privileges cannot be abolished through wishful thinking
               | or self-criticism from the elites.
               | 
               | On the other hand, subsidizing the cost of production of
               | information that's already been produced and account for?
               | That makes no sense from an economic perspective. If
               | you're talking about reaping benefits for past work (not
               | accounting for a "cost" because past production costs
               | nothing in the present by definition), it raises ethical
               | questions: why would the newspaper/editor get paid and
               | not the actual author, now that the logistical work of
               | publishing the article has been accounted for (and even
               | profited upon) by the editor?
               | 
               | There is nothing inherently natural or fair about
               | copyright laws. We need broader perspectives if we want
               | to develop a knowledge economy based on sharing
               | information and resources for social progress, if you'd
               | like to call it like that.
        
         | throwaway98797 wrote:
         | Like this?
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/apple-news/
        
           | 1024core wrote:
           | Except that I'm not in the Apple walled garden. No Apple
           | devices here.
        
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