[HN Gopher] Leak uncovers global abuse of cyber-surveillance weapon
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Leak uncovers global abuse of cyber-surveillance weapon
        
       Author : johnny_reilly
       Score  : 444 points
       Date   : 2021-07-18 16:05 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | tigerBL00D wrote:
       | How is this legal and why companies like NSO and their principals
       | are not being prosecuted?
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | Is it forbidden? Then it is likely legal.
         | 
         | I am not defending NSO here, but I just want to provide a
         | sample of a simple defense of this. In practical sense, there
         | is very little regulation in this space. And if you add to it
         | some of the territories involved in that race, you will quickly
         | notice that it may be hard to force them to do anything. They
         | are sovereign after all.
        
       | owlbynight wrote:
       | Why is this seemingly okay but if my Mom leaves a card in my
       | mailbox, it's illegal? I really hate that our countries are
       | largely run by incompetent corrupt geezers.
       | 
       | Compromising the personal devices of private citizens for
       | nefarious means should be globally illegal and, if perpetrated by
       | a government, should be considered an act of war.
       | 
       | Why does it seem like we're all just kind of okay with citizens
       | being attacked like this?
        
       | 14 wrote:
       | Who is target US journalists?
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | _NSO said that even if Pineda's phone had been targeted, it did
       | not mean data collected from his phone contributed in any way to
       | his death..._
       | 
       | NSO are clearly concerned about any such claims sticking.
       | 
       | Shared and joint liability for such consequences of software and
       | tools strikes me as one of the more viable ways of limiting their
       | over development.
       | 
       | Finding a firm, its officers, its engineers, its salespeople, its
       | investors, and its creditors culpable for assassinations and
       | murders would tend to dampen enthusiasm significantly. That's not
       | enough to utterly quash development, but it makes it far more
       | expensive and unattractive.
       | 
       | I don't have high hopes for this. But one may dream.
        
       | toptal wrote:
       | So, PBS seems to have done a documentary on this, which was just
       | released an hour ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BIYWHdfTE
       | 
       | Did all of the media outlets organize together for months in
       | advance to be able to release everything today? The content and
       | production quality makes it seem like this release was planned
       | months in advance.
       | 
       | Also, assuming they did, what's the process all of these news
       | organizations go through in order to plan such a release on the
       | same exact day? The planning of the release in such a coordinated
       | way is almost questionable itself, though it would be good to get
       | insight into this.
        
         | eXpl0it3r wrote:
         | The case around Jamal Khashoggi is also documented quite well
         | in the documentary: "The Dissident"
         | 
         | It was that movie/documentary where I first heard of Pegasus
         | and how it had been used by the Saudi government.
        
         | alex_duf wrote:
         | Hey, former software engineer at the Guardian here. Yes the
         | news outlets are collaborating on stories too big for a single
         | one.
         | 
         | The last I can remember was the Panama papers, which followed a
         | very similar process. I seem to remember they all synchronized
         | through the ICIJ [1], and more or less each journalist would
         | cover their own territory / domain. Then they agreed on a
         | reasonable date to release the news.
         | 
         | They shared more than just information, but also technical
         | infrastructure to do the investigation.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.icij.org/
        
           | toptal wrote:
           | So, if the ICIJ coordinated the last one, then who
           | coordinated this one? It seems like Forbidden Stories is the
           | main organizer though they also make it seem like "The
           | Pegasus Project" is the organizer as well, which seems rather
           | confusing.
        
             | tedunangst wrote:
             | You can't read the article?
             | 
             | > Forbidden Stories, a Paris-based nonprofit media
             | organisation, and Amnesty International initially had
             | access to the leaked list and shared access with media
             | partners as part of the Pegasus project, a reporting
             | consortium.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Goety wrote:
               | It looks like the Wikipedia page cites a broken link in
               | concerning Forbidden Stories supporters!
               | 
               | [broken link #33] https://forbiddenstories.org/they-
               | support-us/
               | 
               | "Prominent supporters are:[33]
               | 
               | Can Dundar, former Editor-in-chief of Turkish newspaper
               | Cumhuriyet
               | 
               | Khadija Ismayilova, Azerbaijani investigative journalist
               | 
               | Marina Walker Guevara, deputy director of the U.S.-based
               | International Consortium of Investigative Journalists[34]
               | 
               | Bastian Obermayer, Pulitzer Prize-winning German
               | investigative journalist with the newspaper Suddeutsche
               | Zeitung
               | 
               | Fabrice Arfi, Co-head of investigations at French online
               | newspaper Mediapart[35]
               | 
               | Will Potter, U.S.-American investigative journalist
        
         | lutoma wrote:
         | Looks like the same group of newspapers that also worked
         | together on a number of previous high-profile leaks in
         | coordination with ICIJ:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Consortium_of_In...
        
         | commoner wrote:
         | > The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media
         | organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO's
         | hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only
         | intended for use against criminals and terrorists.
         | 
         | Usually, joint investigations between multiple media outlets
         | are released in a planned fashion. It's rare to see 17 news
         | outlets collaborate on one story, but when "more than 180
         | journalists" have been targeted with Pegasus, it may be that
         | the targeted journalists worked together on this investigation,
         | using their exploited devices as evidence.
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | In the US, journalists were long reluctant to discuss Gov
           | surveillance abuses in any meaningful way - even when they
           | were targeted.
           | 
           | Snowden basically dragged news orgs into reporting it. After
           | that initial rush tho, reporting was largely muted. Most DoJ
           | and other abuses were minimally covered if at all.
           | 
           | That improved somewhat during the next administration but
           | authoritarian deference still seemed in play to me.
        
             | Goety wrote:
             | >That improved somewhat during the next administration
             | 
             | I heavily disagree?
        
       | phtrivier wrote:
       | Sadly, an haveibeenpawned-like service to know if a number is in
       | the list would be unfeasible ; so, the only way to know if you've
       | been monitored is to be some kind of celebrity that the giardian
       | and co will decide to out.(I suppose it will be better in terms
       | of PR to be outed in this case than in the Panama papers...)
        
       | tuukkah wrote:
       | Somewhat surprising (disappointing?) for me to find India, Mexico
       | and Hungary on the list: " _at least 10 governments believed to
       | be NSO customers who were entering numbers into a system:
       | Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Kazakhstan, Mexico, Morocco, Rwanda, Saudi
       | Arabia, Hungary, India, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE)._ "
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | Why do you find this surprising?
        
           | tuukkah wrote:
           | I thought these countries still tried to operate legally
           | instead of targeting their opposition leaders etc.
        
             | pm90 wrote:
             | > India, Mexico and Hungary
             | 
             | Both India and Hungary are currently governed by anti-
             | democratic right wing administrations (Modi and Orban). Not
             | that surprising to see the State try to abuse power.
        
               | arv_ind1 wrote:
               | Why do you think India has an undemocratic govt? Just
               | because Modi is RW?
        
               | webdevlion wrote:
               | Ironic that you mention this, since the fact that the
               | Modi government's name is on the list attests to their
               | anti-privacy way of ruling.
        
               | actuator wrote:
               | I am sure the big names missing from the list are also
               | doing it. Five eyes, Russia, China probably have much
               | better capabilities than the ones on the list.
               | 
               | The list for India is weird though. It has a lot of names
               | which are in the pro current establishment camp and some
               | of their own leaders as well.
               | 
               | Could it be some other state snooping on them or has it
               | found usage by non state actors as well?
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | Probably related to the disenfranchisement of minorities
        
               | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
               | Um.. just because they happen to be right-wing ( from US
               | perspective - I don't want to derail this conversation ),
               | does not mean they are not democratic and hostile towards
               | democracy.
               | 
               | In fact, I would argue, that they have a mandate from its
               | people ( hence they are democratic ) and their program is
               | very open about the changes they propose ( which may
               | unpopular in EU salons, but not for an ordinary citizen
               | ).
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | dogma1138 wrote:
             | Are we're supposed to act like it's a new thing? It's
             | rather similar to the client list of Hacking Team
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Team
             | 
             | This market has been developing for the past 2 decades
             | there are a lot more players than NSO and most of them
             | aren't in Israel.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | A reminder, a 20th century US president was found to be
             | openly spying on the opposition, and only faced
             | repercussions for the cover-up. Though I can't prove it, I
             | assume every major political group is doing some amount of
             | surveillance on the opposition.
        
         | aqibgatoo wrote:
         | The current indian govt figured in the list back in 2019 as
         | well, so no surprises there.
        
           | tuukkah wrote:
           | The 2019 list was probably of Pegasos's customers? This list
           | is of governments using Pegasos against their opposition,
           | journalists, lawyers...
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | I am actually surprised the list is so short. I was expecting
         | to see more names.
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | Possibly other countries (US, UK, Russia, Australia, China,
           | etc) have enough resources to build their own equivalent
           | tools without needing to buy Pegasus.
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | Hungary? Basically the western bastion of Russia
        
           | riffraff wrote:
           | I wish it was only Russia, Orban is in bed with the PRC too.
           | 
           | Hungary is being run as a cleptocracy, it will align with
           | whoever gives the chance for higher embezzlement.
        
           | tuukkah wrote:
           | Member of EU too - hope this leak will increase the pressure
           | against them.
        
       | nickfromseattle wrote:
       | Pegasus and it's capabilities have been publicly known for
       | several years. Pegasus recently appeared in connection with hack
       | that stole Jeff Bezos' nude selfies.
       | 
       | It sounds like the new info putting them back in the new cycle is
       | related to this sentence:
       | 
       | "The Guardian and its media partners will be revealing the
       | identities of people whose number appeared on the list in the
       | coming days. They include hundreds of business executives,
       | religious figures, academics, NGO employees, union officials and
       | government officials, including cabinet ministers, presidents and
       | prime ministers."
       | 
       | Should be a very interesting release.
        
         | iforgetti wrote:
         | This does prove or disprove any other Pegasus related claims
         | but regarding the Bezos "hack", Brad Stone who is a Bezos
         | biographer says in this interview (https://twitter.com/profgall
         | oway/status/1400539983333793792?...) that all the evidence
         | about the nude photos leak point to Bezos' girlfriend's brother
         | actually just taking the photos from her phone through physical
         | access and leaking them.
        
           | jjeaff wrote:
           | I don't think all the evidence points to the brother in law.
           | 
           | https://www.vice.com/en/article/v74v34/saudi-arabia-
           | hacked-j...
        
             | tedunangst wrote:
             | Let's just ignore what all the people who would know have
             | to say.
             | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-05-05/how-
             | jeff-...
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | The technology is there. It is obvious that if it is being
         | sold, it will be used. And like most things that do give people
         | power, it is likely to be abused. At least in some sectors
         | there is a strict regulation of what can be used and why ( and
         | there is a cost associated with it so companies tend to
         | scrutinize for unnecessary searches ), but an individual with
         | too much money and time on their hands? The only limit is that
         | person.
         | 
         | I will admit I am tantalized.
        
           | JohnDeHope wrote:
           | And like [all] things that [] give people power, it is
           | [guaranteed] to be abused.
        
         | erostrate wrote:
         | The most positive thing about this leak is that it includes
         | government officials. The more they realize that the mass
         | surveillance they are pushing on us will also apply to them,
         | the more chances we'll have that they push back against it.
        
           | Leparamour wrote:
           | The problem is that politicians often seem to view themselves
           | as an exalted caste. Targeting individuals is only
           | problematic insofar politicians from the ruling parties are
           | targeted. If the Spyware companies promise to exclude them
           | from being targets, all is fine.
        
         | dannyw wrote:
         | This sounds absolutely huge. It feels like a Snowden lite.
        
           | camjohnson26 wrote:
           | Snowden says: "Stop what you're doing and read this. This
           | leak is going to be the story of the year"
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1416797153524174854?s=20
        
             | slg wrote:
             | I'm not judging the importance of the story, but based off
             | past reception of these stories it is wildly naive to
             | believe this will be the story of the year. That is
             | especially true in a year in which the globe is still not
             | through a global pandemic that has killed millions.
             | 
             | Most people simply don't care that much about digital
             | privacy. Lots of people believe Facebook is spying on them
             | constantly including recording everything said in the
             | presence of their phone and many of those people go right
             | on continuing to use those apps.
        
               | clairity wrote:
               | > "...wildly naive to believe this will be the story of
               | the year. That is especially true in a year in which the
               | globe is still not through a global pandemic that has
               | killed millions."
               | 
               | if this were true, cardiovascular disease and cancer
               | would be the top stories everyday, as they combine for
               | tens of millions of deaths per year. the media focuses on
               | novel fear because it's attention-getting, not rationally
               | dire.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | You phrased that like a disagreement, but I think it
               | actually goes to support by point. A pandemic that has
               | shutdown much of the planet for going on a year and a
               | half seems like a much more novel fear than someone's
               | phone spying on them.
               | 
               | And you can't just blame this on the generic "media".
               | They sell what the people want to buy. They report on
               | novel fears because that is what attracts more attention
               | from readers/viewers. The story about a murder is always
               | going to get more attention than a dozen people dying of
               | heart disease.
               | 
               | It isn't that the media doesn't care about these privacy
               | issues. It is that people generally don't care about
               | these privacy issues.
        
               | djmips wrote:
               | You've underestimated how quickly people normalize
               | things. The pandemic and the shutdown isn't big news
               | anymore.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | And digital surveillance is still big news 8 years after
               | Snowden's leaks? It has also been normalized. There is
               | little chance that the average person would rate this a
               | bigger story than the pandemic.
        
         | grugq wrote:
         | Bezos nudes weren't stolen by a hack, but by physical access to
         | his mistress's device. Her brother. At least, that's what I
         | recall.
         | 
         | The forensic investigation showed that bezos' device was clean.
         | From what I saw.
        
           | Natsu wrote:
           | The analysis claimed that some video sent by MBS might be
           | malware, but then claimed to be unable to decrypt it and
           | prove that or analyze it in any way.
           | 
           | HN called them out on failing to decrypt and properly analyze
           | the file when that came up:
           | 
           | https://github.com/ddz/whatsapp-media-decrypt
        
           | commoner wrote:
           | Here's the forensic report from FTI Consulting:
           | 
           | https://www.vice.com/en/article/v74v34/saudi-arabia-
           | hacked-j...
           | 
           | Reviews of the report suggest that it contains circumstantial
           | evidence, but lacks conclusive evidence:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos_phone_hacking#Analy.
           | ..
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | What adult, a tech executive no less, is dumb enough to send
           | nude selfies in 2021?
        
             | webnrrd2k wrote:
             | All of them? I mean, they're still human and get just as
             | horny (and irrational because of it) an any other sex-
             | osessed monkey.
        
               | jjeaff wrote:
               | No, not all of them. Most people have the sense to never
               | even take nude photos with a connected device.
        
               | heavenlyblue wrote:
               | Some people are just normal people and realise that
               | living in a prison because of the chance of someone
               | leaking your nudes is just isn't worth it so they just
               | take the chance. It doesn't mean they would not retaliate
               | if someone actually leak their nudes.
        
               | leppr wrote:
               | I hope you always wear pants while using your phone.
               | Otherwise how can you be sure to never having pointed
               | your smartphone camera in your nude genitalia's
               | direction? A hacker could've been filming and potentially
               | ended your life through a devastating leak.
        
               | polar wrote:
               | > I hope you always wear pants while using your phone.
               | 
               | Don't you?
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | We'll be putting the leakers in the cell beside Assange any day
       | now, right?
        
       | coldcode wrote:
       | NSO is clearly in the business of selling surveillance to foreign
       | entities, and saying they vet people is nothing but smoke as
       | there is zero actual evidence other than their blanket
       | statements. If some government or other customer tells them they
       | only attack terrorists, it's clearly easy to target anyone; how
       | would NSO even know.
       | 
       | Also rather stupid was Apple's statement about their phones being
       | secure, when its obvious there are zero days being sold to NSO
       | instead of telling Apple. Everything is insecure these days, at
       | some level.
       | 
       | If NSO paid people $1M for a zero day (I bet they don't say), and
       | Apple/Google/etc paid $10K, who do you think gets the info.
        
         | netsec_burn wrote:
         | It's not that cut and dry, ethics and legality are a concern
         | for a lot of researchers such as myself that sell zerodays. In
         | my experience the actual price difference between unethical and
         | ethical outlets is up to 4x, not two orders of magnitude (10K
         | vs 1M?). I can't speak for everyone of course, but even the
         | other researchers I know refuse to sell to unethical buyers,
         | money isn't a factor.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | zrth wrote:
           | Can you give me a feeling for wat ethical buyers would be.
           | I'd assume bug bounties and ZDI and similar. What else?
        
             | netsec_burn wrote:
             | First and foremost, the original vendor is always the most
             | ethical place to sell it. That's where you stand the best
             | chance of having it fixed for affected users. Second to the
             | vendor are third parties that report vulnerabilities to the
             | vendor by selling early warnings as a service. I don't know
             | if I would recommend ZDI, they provide zero guidance for
             | what their payout ranges are. There are security companies
             | that purchase zerodays to write about them for PR, which
             | also fixes the issue. And finally there's selling it to
             | branches of the US government with license restrictions and
             | a blanket exclusion for the NSA.
             | 
             | Beyond those buyers, the lines start to blur (defense
             | contractors, companies in countries allied with the US e.g.
             | FVEY). I would not recommend it either. Unethical buyers
             | have completely different interests. I know Zerodium for
             | one is a terrible place to sell to ( _you_ may be a
             | target), and anything that is sold to Crowdfense is likely
             | to be used against American interests.
             | 
             | My take away advice is, you can choose between painting a
             | target on your front or one on your back.
        
               | Aulig wrote:
               | Who do companies like ZDI sell early warnings to? I don't
               | quite understand how a vulnerability could be worth more
               | to them than the vendor who could fix it (assuming they
               | don't somehow abuse the vulnerability).
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | You can almost assuredly sell exploits illegally/unethically
           | for a serious amount if you have the right connections. We
           | know that iOS zerodays have sold north of 2 million $.
        
             | edoceo wrote:
             | I don't know that. I can't find anything on G or DDG - can
             | you point me towards some data/links?
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | https://www.wired.com/2015/11/hackers-claim-million-
               | dollar-b...
               | 
               | https://arstechnica.com/information-
               | technology/2019/01/zerod...
               | 
               | https://zerodium.com/program.html [see iOS 0-click FCP]
        
               | edoceo wrote:
               | Thank you!
               | 
               | Summary: Wired report is a $1M and Ars reports three, one
               | at $2.5M - all paid by Zerodium. Wow.
        
           | fossuser wrote:
           | Thanks for being one of the good guys.
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | Part of their vetted list: Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Kazakhstan,
         | Morocco, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates
         | 
         | It's as if they are vetting for the most authoritarian, human-
         | rights-abusing, anti-free-press countries in the list. A
         | peculiar vetting process indeed
        
           | Leparamour wrote:
           | Their vetting process probably goes like this:
           | 
           | Question: How would you solve the Trolley problem?
           | 
           | Answer: By using more trolleys.
        
         | zepto wrote:
         | > Also rather stupid was Apple's statement about their phones
         | being secure
         | 
         | Apple has never made such a statement.
        
           | commoner wrote:
           | > Apple has never made such a statement.
           | 
           | From the article:
           | 
           | > Apple said: "Security researchers agree iPhone is the
           | safest, most secure consumer mobile device on the market."
        
             | zepto wrote:
             | Exactly. It says nothing about their phones being secure.
             | Only that they are more secure than their competitors.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | That's a stretch.
        
               | zepto wrote:
               | No, it's what they said.
               | 
               | Saying they claimed their phones to be secure is just a
               | lie.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | It's a stretch to argue that "safest, most secure
               | consumer mobile device on the market" is not a claim of
               | security. The average reader would not interpret that
               | statement as you did, which makes the statement
               | misleading.
        
               | zepto wrote:
               | > is not a claim of security.
               | 
               | It _is_ a claim of _relative_ security but it is a lie to
               | say that Apple claimed their device is secure.
               | 
               | >The average reader would not interpret that statement as
               | you did
               | 
               | I think most people can read the statement for what it is
               | - a comparison to other devices on the market.
        
               | cblconfederate wrote:
               | So it is fair to say that iPhones are insecure
        
       | johnny_reilly wrote:
       | More specific details on Pegasus here:
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/18/what-is-pegasus...
        
       | rootkea wrote:
       | Here is the full forensic methodology report of this leak by
       | Amnesty International's Security Lab:
       | https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-...
       | 
       | With this report, the Amnesty International has also released
       | Mobile Verification Toolkit (MVT) - a forensic tool to look for
       | signs of infection in smartphone devices: https://github.com/mvt-
       | project/mvt
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Zigurd wrote:
       | How much consideration does NSO and other "forensic tools" makers
       | get from platform makers and malware detection providers? Does
       | intelligence and law enforcement get to keep their vulns longer
       | after they are detected?
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | Ethics says we shouldn't be okay with surveillance predators.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mjreacher wrote:
       | At what point are western governments going to crack down on
       | companies such as NSO Group?
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | I am just guessing, but they would probably crack down on
         | specific companies that sell to governments other than their
         | own.
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | They'd also crack down on companies that sell to other
           | governments _and_ their own. The stakes are getting too high
           | at this point.
           | 
           | On a completely unrelated note, if I were a security
           | researcher, I'd start being extremely mindful about to whom
           | I'm selling zero-days.
        
             | Leparamour wrote:
             | >On a completely unrelated note, if I were a security
             | researcher, I'd start being extremely mindful about to whom
             | I'm selling zero-days.
             | 
             | Unless you're dependent on the money, responsible
             | disclosure is probably the most ethical way.
        
         | thr0wwy wrote:
         | I don't think the US government will sanction Israel over
         | selling surveillance software to governments that are allied
         | with both the US and Israel.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Governments objecting to the success of drive-by 0-day malware
         | should be investing in safer operating systems and programming
         | languages, not trying to outlaw malware.
        
           | mjreacher wrote:
           | Why not both? Western governments should (theoretically) be
           | promoting democratic causes not allowing companies to sell to
           | governments that target those that protect democratic values
           | such as activists and journalists.
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | I guess but that doesn't sound very realistic. The US, if
             | we accept it as an example western government, will
             | tolerate literally anything from Israel, whether government
             | or private, and doesn't really care how badly the Saudis
             | are acting, either.
             | 
             | If this bothers you the best thing individuals can do is
             | invent better computers.
        
               | mjreacher wrote:
               | Landing on the moon once didn't sound very realistic
               | either, doesn't mean we should stop trying. At the
               | current moment there is plenty of public pressure on
               | Israel so if it could be directed at something like this
               | that would be a good thing in my mind. This is a
               | political problem and hence should be solved as such.
        
               | desine wrote:
               | Scientific unrealistic is different than socially
               | unrealistic. It's not easy to express, but the knowledge
               | I have of human nature, I feel like I understand better,
               | than the knowledge I have of quantum mechanics.
        
       | milofeynman wrote:
       | Was a joint investigation. Here's Washington Post writeup:
       | 
       | Private spy software sold by NSO group found on cellphones
       | worldwide - Washington Post
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20...
        
         | cf100clunk wrote:
         | From the Guardian article: "The research, conducted by
         | Amnesty's Security Lab, a technical partner on the Pegasus
         | project, found traces of Pegasus activity on 37 out of the 67
         | phones examined." The results were released by an international
         | consortium of media entities that includes The Guardian and the
         | WaPo.
        
       | maratumba wrote:
       | Response from NSO:
       | https://amp.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/18/response-from-n...
        
         | zrth wrote:
         | Gaslighting at its finest.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | De-amped link:
         | https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/18/response-from-n...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | c7DJTLrn wrote:
       | Disgusting. When the topic of commercial "cyberweapons" comes up,
       | I immediately wonder about the people who created them. How they
       | can sleep at night knowing how tools of their design are used.
       | I'd argue that it's a completely different class of cybercrime
       | and worse than anything else out there.
       | 
       | Unprecedented action needs to be taken against NSO Group.
        
         | helge9210 wrote:
         | Sale of these technologies is heavily regulated. If this kind
         | of technology is deployed in your home country, State of Israel
         | gave permission to sell it and your own state have permission
         | to buy and deploy it.
        
           | c7DJTLrn wrote:
           | This is beyond regulation - these tools are infringing on
           | human rights. But frankly, I don't mind what sales the State
           | of Israel permits, they're free to do what they want.
           | However, I would be upset if the government of my own home
           | country permits these sales (which they probably do) or does
           | not reprimand those associated with NSO Group.
        
         | 34679 wrote:
         | I imagine it helps to think of your victims as cattle put here
         | by god for you to exploit.
        
           | Leparamour wrote:
           | I wouldn't go so far and drag Judaism into this.
           | 
           | At least it's an interesting question why so many shady
           | companies seem to operate out of Israel.
        
         | Leparamour wrote:
         | Without programmers disregarding ethics these companies would
         | have nothing to sell.
         | 
         | My proposition is to put known employees of these companies on
         | a blacklist for conferences like CanSecWest or similar.
        
           | SheinhardtWigCo wrote:
           | Too mild. Slap them with OFAC sanctions.
        
       | threatofrain wrote:
       | > That thesis is supported by forensic analysis on the phones of
       | a small sample of journalists, human rights activists and lawyers
       | whose numbers appeared on the leaked list.
       | 
       | > The research, conducted by Amnesty's Security Lab, a technical
       | partner on the Pegasus project, found traces of Pegasus activity
       | on 37 out of the 67 phones examined.
       | 
       | > The analysis also uncovered some sequential correlations
       | between the time and date a number was entered into the list and
       | the onset of Pegasus activity on the device, which in some cases
       | occurred just a few seconds later.
       | 
       | > Amnesty shared its forensic work on four iPhones with Citizen
       | Lab, a research group at the University of Toronto that
       | specialises in studying Pegasus, which confirmed they showed
       | signs of Pegasus infection. Citizen Lab also conducted a peer-
       | review of Amnesty's forensic methods, and found them to be sound.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | > NSO has always maintained it does "does not operate the systems
       | that it sells to vetted government customers, and does not have
       | access to the data of its customers' targets".
        
       | rendall wrote:
       | Edward Snowden predicts this to be "the story of the year"
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1416797153524174854
        
         | rasz wrote:
         | This, or a tiktok clip of a farting puppy, its hard to tell.
        
         | pomian wrote:
         | Perhaps it should be. Sadly it will probably pass quickly for
         | other headlines. Will any changes in privacy control happen?
         | Will someone make and market a new secure phone? That would
         | need interesting.
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-18 23:00 UTC)