[HN Gopher] Xiaomi becomes number two smartphone vendor for firs...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Xiaomi becomes number two smartphone vendor for first time ever in
       Q2 2021
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2021-07-18 07:48 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.canalys.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.canalys.com)
        
       | dmos62 wrote:
       | My mom got a budget Xiaomi (Redmi 9A), but she's having problems
       | with connectivity during calls in places where other phones work
       | fine, like her apartment. Also, currently she's abroad and call
       | connectivity is horrible for first 15-30 seconds, then the call
       | drops and after redialing it works fine. Really weird. Probably
       | should exchange it for a new one.
        
       | klelatti wrote:
       | The big surprise for me is how Samsung maintains its market share
       | with selling prices 40% higher than the Android competition. Is
       | it just brand or promotional spend or is there something else?
        
         | Bombthecat wrote:
         | Brand
        
       | nabla9 wrote:
       | This is a list of brand market shares, incorrectly labeled as
       | vendor market shares.
       | 
       | The largest smartphone vendor is BBK Electronics. They
       | manufacture multiple brands like Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus, Realme,
       | iQOO. Their brands have over 40% market share in China, India,
       | over 50% in Southeast Asia, and are generally the largest vendor
       | all over the developing world.
       | 
       | The real list is                 1.  24% BBK Electronics
       | (10% Oppo, 10% Vivo, 4% Realme)       2.  19% Samsung       3.
       | 17% Xiaomi        4.  14% Apple       5.   4% Huawei
       | 
       | Chinese have ~45% of the market.
        
         | richardwhiuk wrote:
         | Shouldn't Apple be under Foxconn by that logic?
        
         | fomine3 wrote:
         | I read mobile industry mania's blogpost written in Japanese, it
         | argues that OPPO was delivered from BBK but there are no
         | capital relationship between BBK Communication Technology and
         | OPPO(Guangdong Oujia Holdings). It also refers Nikkei's article
         | confirmed that. http://blogofmobile.com/article/121143
         | 
         | I searched and it seems true.
         | https://www.qichamao.com/orgcompany/searchitemdtl/e6f25044f9...
         | https://www.aitouyan.com/news/7877.html
         | 
         | (read via translate!)
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | Both are (in part) owned by Duan, and are manufactured in
           | same facilities.
        
             | fomine3 wrote:
             | Manufacturer facility is no longer a matter since every
             | brand uses ODM at least for some lineups.
        
             | Wronnay wrote:
             | After the linked Article, Oppo is owned by Yan Dong Ou Jia
             | Kong Gu You Xian Gong Si Gong Hui Wei Yuan Hui  which CEO
             | is Ceng Yuan Qing  (Zeng Yuanqing)
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | That seems unlikely considering the hardware similarities
           | between OPPO, Vivo and OnePlus phones.
        
             | fomine3 wrote:
             | There are no doubt about similarity of OPPO, OnePlus, and
             | realme since they are under OPPO. Just curious how vivo
             | similar?
        
           | Wronnay wrote:
           | It's really confusing because so many Wikipedia and Media
           | Articles write that Oppo is a Subsidiary of BBK...
        
             | fomine3 wrote:
             | I wish English writer investigate about this topic
        
               | ksec wrote:
               | They are not, in the straight sense of Subsidiary.
               | 
               | >A subsidiary, subsidiary company or daughter company is
               | a company owned or controlled by another company,
               | 
               | Hence that is why using BBK as one would have been wrong.
               | BBK does not own majority of shares, nor de jure voting
               | power. But in a complex power relationship BBK do have
               | much higher leverage or with other investor de facto
               | voting power. Think if Foxconn decided to invest into 5
               | different Phone making companies, ( Like the current
               | Nokia Smartphone ) and Foxconn is a shareholder and
               | provide technical and manufacturing consultancy, you
               | would not list them all under Foxconn right?
               | 
               | I wont blame the English main stream media most of them
               | are so late to anything from Japan and China it is
               | borderline comical.
               | 
               | I mean when I first mentioned BBK in 2015 no one had a
               | clue what I was talking about. My earliest comment on BBK
               | on HN was from Jan 2018 [1]. Barely anyone knew BBK then.
               | As a matter of fact even right now not that many have
               | heard of BBK.
               | 
               | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16265008
        
         | Wronnay wrote:
         | But BBK Electronics is a private company while Xiaomi is a
         | public traded company - so this news article is in favor of
         | speculators / shareholders of Xiaomi.
         | 
         | You can always try to display the statistics in your favor...
         | 
         | It should also be noted that Canalys lists Xiaomi as one of
         | their clients - so, one could argue that Canalys has a conflict
         | of interest.
        
           | nabla9 wrote:
           | It does not matter. Shareholders must take into account
           | private competitors.
           | 
           | This article was labeled wrong and missed the biggest
           | company.
        
             | Wronnay wrote:
             | I just wanted to describe that Canalys might know that BBK
             | Electronics is bigger but wanted to display another picture
             | to the world because of their own interest.
             | 
             | Xiaomi pays the bills of their employees, BBK doesn't.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | Surprise, Xiaomi even contracted engineering, and
           | manufacturing to BBK at some point.
           | 
           | In addition to their brand (of which few more are not counted
           | above,) BBK still manufactures unbranded white box OEM goods
        
       | throwaway4good wrote:
       | Will probably take over Samsung for the no. 1 spot in next
       | quarter or the quarter thereafter.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | I have a POCO X3, I had my dad buying for me cause I could not
       | leave the house and my old phone died. It was a surprise. Good
       | phone all around, great camera. After some hours I've noted
       | there's ADs everywhere. Uninstallable apps. Now, after a year is
       | passed, the camera freezes in the middle of the recording of a
       | long video. I honestly did not have time to root the phone and
       | fix the ads and apps issue and I'm just now learning about this
       | GitHub repo with the debloat tools. I was a Samsung Galaxy user
       | and now I'm a Xiaomi user, but after this phone I'll look
       | somewhere else. I've been trying to put my hands on a Linux
       | phone, which I'll probably do in the next few months.
        
         | tedk-42 wrote:
         | "did not have time to root the phone and fix the ads.."
         | 
         | ...proceeds to buy linux phone.
         | 
         | Introspection might help here - I recommend Apple if you want
         | something that lasts and just works.
        
           | atum47 wrote:
           | Do you remember Samsung Galaxy 2? It was the perfect phone.
           | It all went down hill for Samsung after that. I had a Xiaomi
           | mia1 that was great also. Those companies are capable of
           | launching great products, and after they get the user they
           | try to shove any kind of crap down their throats. When that
           | happens I just leave. It does not mean that I could not give
           | other companies a try.
        
       | Aulig wrote:
       | Cant really beat Xiaomi on a price/value standpoint. Personally,
       | Id never use MIUI though. So much bloatware. I replaced it with
       | LineageOS and it's a delight.
       | 
       | Unfortunate that we must assume that the devices are manufactured
       | under awful working conditions though.
        
         | machiaweliczny wrote:
         | I think that shitty camera and audio justify price difference
         | (I have Xiaomi)
        
       | adflux wrote:
       | I stopped buying Chinese products as much as I can, when I
       | learned about the CCP meddling around the world and what they are
       | doing to the Uighurs. I really don't understand people who would
       | support this regime by buying its products.
        
         | pacifer007 wrote:
         | By that logic, you should stop buying American products first.
         | They been meddling in world affairs, since, forever.
         | 
         | And you can see what they did to Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan
         | (create taliban, use them against Soviets, demolish
         | Afghanistan, blame Taliban on someone else.)
         | 
         | What's your point.
        
           | totalZero wrote:
           | You created an account to say this?
        
             | adflux wrote:
             | Feels like Chinese astroturfing to me
        
         | as1mov wrote:
         | Most of the people buying Chinese phones live in the developing
         | countries barely earning $300-$400 a month.
         | 
         | They could stick it to the man by buying the latest
         | iPhone/Pixel that protects their privacy and at the same time
         | takes a strong political stance against a shitty regime, but
         | they have other more pressing and immediate issues to deal
         | with.
        
       | mm983 wrote:
       | might be tempting to get one but hear me out: you can't imagine
       | the amount of bloat and adware on miui. it depends on your region
       | because they don't legally get away with the same intrusion
       | everywhere. I configured it in a GDPR country (which disables
       | some features) and when I checked the DNS requests, it made a
       | tracking/ad request several times per minute.
       | 
       | Also the pre installed apps like file manager and browser have
       | ads. The browser, which additionally has a bunch of bloaty games
       | integrated for whatever reason, can't be uninstalled. Not going
       | to get one again, my mate's pixel seems like a delight in
       | comparison
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | I'd rather have a 5 year old iPhone with suspect parts in it
         | than deal with that sort of shit.
        
         | martimarkov wrote:
         | If you are to downvote a comment which addresses privacy issues
         | and puts the devices in a negative light, please also downvote
         | all the ones that are saying they are great.
        
         | dsego wrote:
         | Compared to my previous Samsung device the bloat on my new
         | Redmi is bearable.
        
       | timonoko wrote:
       | I just bought 69EUR Xiaomi Redmi 9A and accidentally discovered
       | it has full-fledged USB-OTG. This was not mentioned in specs and
       | cheapest OTG-phone seems to be around 300EUR.
       | 
       | What is going on, maybe NFC and other expensive goodies are just
       | disabled by software? And maybe this OTG just stops working at
       | next update?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | OTG isn't rare in low end hardware these days it's just really
         | low on the list of things most low end phones think the users
         | will care about. I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply
         | forgotten about and not listed more often than the
         | hardware+software weren't set up to do it.
         | 
         | E.g. the Pi Zero is $5 and comes with an OTG port, it's really
         | not a matter of cost rather focus.
        
       | orloffm wrote:
       | I have Mi 10T Lite, it's wonderful and liberating after an
       | iPhone, and costs half of iPhone 11 price, and (!) comes with a
       | case and a glass film.
       | 
       | But the camera is just awful. It takes 5 seconds to start, video
       | recording is jittery, sometimes as if it was recording at 10 FPS.
       | I just don't have good pictures of my kids anymore.
        
       | sumanthvepa wrote:
       | I loved my Mi A1 A2 and A3. All fantastic phones with stock
       | Android and fabulous value for money. Sadly however they have
       | stopped shipping stock Android. The MiUI is a terrible terrible
       | experience in developing countries like India. See this review by
       | GeekyRanjit. https://youtu.be/jbnxMuBUw0E
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | Still rocking a Mi A1.
         | 
         | Not the best performance or camera, but for what I paid it's an
         | amazing product. Battery still lasts a couple of days.
         | 
         | It's a real shame Xiaomi got out of Android One. I'm probably
         | going to get a Nokia when the A1 dies.
        
         | berdario wrote:
         | I opened the video, hoping to see examples of this
         | AdWare/NagWare problem, but GeekyRanjit does not show any phone
         | UI during the video :/
        
       | yawaworht1978 wrote:
       | I have always thought many android based phones are fantastic. I
       | have a dirt cheap Nokia(don't even know the model)and apart from
       | initial startup time and availability of integrated, so to say
       | native apps, it blows the iphone 11 out of the water in camera,
       | speed, responsiveness.
       | 
       | Also had a xiaomi phone as business phone, and it was performing
       | better than the currently available iphone.
       | 
       | I think iphones have stopped looking nice a while ago anyway.
       | 
       | I like the design and finish of Mac laptops, but even there, you
       | can get better from brands with windows os, but that will cost a
       | ridiculous amount of money.
       | 
       | May I ask, apart from look, why do so many people in the US chose
       | to use an iphone? Genuine curiosity.
        
         | jhloa2 wrote:
         | My experience with android has been the opposite. I've never
         | had an android phone that lasted more than 2 years without
         | becoming frustratingly slow whereas my iPhone 8 still runs as
         | well as the day I got it. All anecdotal but I stick with what
         | works for me
        
           | rjzzleep wrote:
           | All my androids have lasted quite a while actually, but I had
           | to replace various parts of them. headphone jack, display
           | assembly, sdcard slot. I have an Xperia XZ2 that has/had a
           | really annoying touchscreen issue where the cursor will jump
           | around(soon after I bought it). Apparently it's just an issue
           | with the phone. I bought a second hand iPhone 8 a year later
           | and have been using it since.
           | 
           | I guess I don't care as much about how the phone looks and
           | more about the fact that the iPhone 8 is still on latest iOS
           | whereas XZ2 and basically all sony phones will hardly get any
           | updates and you get to choose between keeping your camera or
           | updating your phone and keeping it fast with a custom
           | rom(yes, you keep your phones camera active nowadays even
           | after unlocking, but there is no updated camera HAL on the
           | latest custom rom, you'll always have a subpar camera
           | experience). Sony even announced that the Xperia 1 III will
           | only receive one major update recently. Although everyone is
           | still hoping that that was a mistake but the europeans.
           | 
           | I would say Xiaomi deserves it though. They're cheap devices
           | with good performance(and inofficial GCAM), and usually some
           | (not great) open source drivers that allow for fast custom
           | rom development(although that too has taken a turn for worse
           | recently).
        
         | f6v wrote:
         | Apple makes small phones that have flagship power. I can't
         | imagine buying a 6.7 inch smartphone.
        
         | the_dune_13 wrote:
         | > it blows the iphone 11 out of the water in camera, speed,
         | responsiveness
         | 
         | I have not seen iphone being outclassed by another phone.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Then you haven't been looking very far. Doesn't anyone on HN
           | understand the concept of observer bias? -_-
        
             | adventured wrote:
             | > Then you haven't been looking very far.
             | 
             | And you didn't name any phones that outclass the iPhone.
             | 
             | That's because there are none. I say that as not a
             | particular fan of Apple products or their ecosystem. I only
             | buy Android phones as I prefer that ecosystem and
             | interface. Every generation - for the past ~13 years - I
             | research all the phones on the market, those worth
             | bothering with, and it's still exceptionally clear Apple is
             | making the best smartphones. Ecosystem, performance, audio,
             | video, photos, gaming, all aspects remain at elite levels
             | among smartphones. They're the only smartphone maker that
             | has consistently stayed at or close to the top for so long,
             | generation after generation.
        
         | 14 wrote:
         | I got an iPhone 8 after rocking an iPhone 4s for about 8 years.
         | And this point, all the phones are pretty damn fast and smart
         | be it an android or iPhone ecosystem. I would be happy with
         | either. What finalized my purchase was the fact that Costco was
         | offering 300$ store credit plus a couple other things on a
         | Black Friday sale. Seemed like a good deal at the time.
        
         | katmannthree wrote:
         | As someone who has both a mid-range nokia released this year
         | and an A13 iPhone I would love to see a side by side comparison
         | video between your two devices showing camera and speed tests.
         | From my experience it's the opposite, the nokia stutters and
         | lags during normal usage while the iPhone loads apps almost
         | instantly and doesn't drop frames.
        
         | whateveracct wrote:
         | > May I ask, apart from look, why do so many people in the US
         | chose to use an iphone? Genuine curiosity.
         | 
         | iOS
        
       | Ayesh wrote:
       | Good for them! I've been using Redmi (a sub-brand of Xiaomi,
       | using same MIUI Android variant) Note 2,4,6,8, now 10, and I will
       | buy 12 when it arrives too. I also use their power banks, fitness
       | trackers, and even toothbrushes from Mijia sub-brand.
       | 
       | Their prices are very difficult to beat. Their software is not as
       | polished as say, Pixel devices or Apple devices, but for a third
       | of the cost, that's an acceptable compromise for me.
       | 
       | They are very aggressive at rolling out new phones, though. There
       | is a Redmi Note device every 6-8 months, and a comparable Mi Lite
       | device released a month or two later too. They are pretty similar
       | with Poco specs as well.
       | 
       | Their strategy is to release more and more phones and make the
       | users think their device hit the sweet-spot. For example, my
       | Redmi Note 10 has an IR blaster and a 3.5mm headphone jack.
       | Another line of devices might reuse the same SoC and physical
       | aspects, but not include an IR blaster and a 3.5mm jack. Redmi
       | Note series also has a bunch of variants, some with NFC, some
       | without, and some with 5G.
        
       | majkinetor wrote:
       | Many people here say that software not being polished is kind of
       | a problem but that is irrelevant - you can always install
       | alternative app and you should. I would be most happy if all
       | those default garbage "apps" are left out on ANY phone (i.e.
       | minimal install) - just give me OS and let me be, I can install
       | stuff I use on my own. You should never use apps tied to vendor
       | as portability of your tools is most important.
       | 
       | Not only Xiaomi phones are cheaper, but technology is IMO way
       | better then that of Samsung and friends:
       | 
       | - Face recognition NEVER FAILS. It fails on MS Surface (and in
       | kinda embarrassing way really), Samsung, Huwei etc. but never on
       | Xiaomi - it can rain, snow, you can change haircuts... its
       | irrelevant, it only scan eyes.
       | 
       | - MAUI is way less bloated IMO then alternatives
       | 
       | - Glass is awesome on my Redmi - I recently dropped it on asphalt
       | (which is very sharp) from 1.5 meter height and then I hit it
       | with my foot while walking so it slide on asphalt on the glass
       | side, traveling around 5 meters. I thought it will go to trash
       | can after that, but I picked it up and there was just a small
       | scratch ! Amazing
       | 
       | I am not judging only using phone xperience - all other gadgets I
       | got from the company are great and 3 times cheaper then
       | alternative - air cleaner, roborock etc.
       | 
       | Good job Xiaomi.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | > - Face recognition NEVER FAILS. It fails on MS Surface (and
         | in kinda embarrassing way really), Samsung, Huwei etc. but
         | never on Xiaomi - it can rain, snow, you can change haircuts...
         | its irrelevant, it only scan eyes.
         | 
         | What about false positive rate? It's there for security after
         | all, not for convenience. Actually that's what makes me worry
         | about biometrics. I was able to find out Apple claims about
         | security characteristics of their fingerprint recognition and
         | face recognition features. But I was not able to find this
         | information for Android vendors, it's like nobody cares.
        
           | majkinetor wrote:
           | I did not witness it. I tried on 10+ people, and it didn't
           | unlock the phone. I would certainly love to know more, sounds
           | to me too good to be true, but then I remembered that iris is
           | like fingerprint so it makes sense.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > Face recognition NEVER FAILS
         | 
         | Are we talking about the false negative or the false positive
         | rate here?
        
       | publicola1990 wrote:
       | After using RealMe phones, I am finding them superior to Xiaomi
       | at similar price points. I don't know why they aren't more
       | popular.
        
       | senko wrote:
       | I've got a Xiaomi phone (Mi 10 Lite) and am pretty happy with it.
       | 
       | Hardware is great. Software (MIUI) is adware crap, which I knew
       | when I was buying. I tweaked privacy settings as much was
       | possible, and I use almost none of the builtin apps. Instead I
       | use Firefox Focus+Mobile for browsing, Amaze for file management,
       | Dropbox for file storage and PDF view, etc.
       | 
       | Overall the entire experience is comparable (for me) to a Samsung
       | or Apple phone at 3x the price. The most annoying things are
       | still Google and YouTube ToS accept dialogs I get all the time
       | because I'm effectively using an incognito browser, and I'd get
       | those on any phone.
        
         | jatins wrote:
         | Their software wasn't always this bad.
         | 
         | I had an Mi3 and I thought the UI was better that what stock
         | Android was offering at that time. But overtime they kept
         | adding more and more crapware.
        
         | nsonha wrote:
         | try unlocking the bootloader (annoying that you have to wait
         | like other have noted) and use the MIUI EU distro. It's pretty
         | much standard Android (might not even include gapps, I don't
         | remember), plus the core MIUI and their international version
         | of the apps (ones that don't link to Chinese online services).
         | Best of both words.
         | 
         | For example I use their Music app for playing Youtube in the
         | background without ads, I didn't even install the Youtube app.
        
         | Nux wrote:
         | Just got my hands in the 10T Lite 5G, it's a pretty good phone,
         | must admit. Toying with the xiaomi.eu rom until it's properly
         | supported by Lineageos. The UI is growing on me, no adware that
         | I can see and I have frozen most of the google apps.
         | 
         | The camera is mediocre, I am hoping for a gcam port.
        
         | jackbrookes wrote:
         | >The most annoying things are still Google and YouTube ToS
         | accept dialogs I get all the time because I'm effectively using
         | an incognito browser, and I'd get those on any phone.
         | 
         | You may be able to add a list to uBlock which blocks cookie
         | popups.
         | 
         | https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
        
           | senko wrote:
           | Thanks! I didn't know about that one.
           | 
           | Sadly Firefox Focus on Android doesn't seem to support
           | extensions or manually loading block lists, but as I do
           | mainly browse from private mode on desktop as well, the
           | extension will help there.
        
         | ekianjo wrote:
         | Is it possible to easily install LineageOS and still have
         | everything working ?
        
           | alpaca128 wrote:
           | Xiaomi sells a few phones with the "Android One" label,
           | meaning it's mostly standard Android and mine let me
           | uninstall basically all the typical useless apps. Only the
           | Play Store and one or two others can't be removed.
           | 
           | Not perfect and LineageOS would still be a bit better, but
           | close enough for me. I don't enjoy using smartphones either
           | way.
        
             | vbezhenar wrote:
             | AFAIK Android One is barely supported at this point and
             | phones are old. I used to be a supporter of Android One and
             | bought two phones myself, but I wouldn't recommend it now.
             | Google failed this program like it failed numerous programs
             | before. The only reliable way to get standard android
             | without unlocking and tinkering seems to be buying Google
             | Pixel nowadays.
        
               | limeblack wrote:
               | Nokia is close to stock to the Pixel
               | https://dontkillmyapp.com/
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | I bought a Nokia 3.4 released late last year. Cheap and
               | Android One. Really great phone for the price point. I
               | absolutely _hate_ any manufacturer version of Android.
               | Pixel is great, but only occasionally is a cheaper model
               | available. I break and lose phones so I buy functional
               | but cheaper (buying second hand is risky).
               | https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_3_4-10404.php
               | 
               | I previously had a different Android One Nokia Phone
               | which was great and well supported.
        
           | climb_stealth wrote:
           | AFAIK you won't get proper camera support. For example my
           | Poco F1 has two cameras on the back, but with LineageOS only
           | one is used.
           | 
           | Whether everything works ends up depending a bit on how you
           | use your phone.
        
           | zekica wrote:
           | I'm running LineageOS on Mi 10T Pro and everything works
           | fine, but it wasn't the case until a couple of weeks ago.
        
         | as1mov wrote:
         | Most of the Xiaomi phones are supported by LineageOS. If you
         | have an hour to spare, you can easily unlock the bootloader and
         | install it to get a stock Android experience (even skip out
         | Google Services if you want).
         | 
         | I have the Poco F1, cost me about $230 for SD845 + 8GB RAM +
         | 4000mAh + 256GB storage. It's a pretty good deal after
         | installing LineageOS on it.
        
           | kenmacd wrote:
           | I don't suppose any of them allow setting a custom root of
           | trust though, right?
           | 
           | I haven't managed to find anything other than the Pixels that
           | have it.
        
             | commoner wrote:
             | The Xiaomi Mi A2 supports relocking the bootloader with a
             | custom key, but only on older versions of the bootloader
             | (MIUI 9 / Android 8.1, or earlier):
             | 
             | https://gitlab.com/CalyxOS/calyxos/-/issues/88
             | 
             | https://review.calyxos.org/c/CalyxOS/calyxos.org/+/2904/4/p
             | a...
             | 
             | Not sure about other Xiaomi phones.
        
               | kenmacd wrote:
               | Interesting. Thank you, I'll check it out.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | Another manufacturer that supports relocking the
               | bootloader with a custom key is OnePlus:
               | 
               | https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-re-locking-the-
               | boot...
               | 
               | None of the operating systems that are designed to be
               | used with a relocked bootloader (e.g. CalyxOS,
               | GrapheneOS, RattlesnakeOS) support OnePlus phones at the
               | moment, so you'll need to build LineageOS, AOSP, or some
               | other Android variant manually to use it on a OnePlus
               | phone with a relocked bootloader.
               | 
               | There might be more device models with this kind of
               | support. Search for "avb_custom_key" with the model name
               | to see whether anyone has commented on this.
        
           | aneutron wrote:
           | The downside is that you lose DRM-enabled content. For
           | example, it's a hassle to use Netflix at 720p/1080p, and
           | what's more important to my use case for example, is Spotify.
           | It's _possible_ in theory, but it's extremely hacky.
           | 
           | I personally went the Google route w/ a Pixel 4a, so I get a
           | simple, zero non-sense UI, with no forced ads or anything,
           | just a smooth experience, at a slight premium (not that much
           | to be completely fair ...)
        
             | savant2 wrote:
             | I have LineageOS on my Xiaomi phone and the only hassle is
             | contactless payment. Spotify works fine and I did not try
             | Netflix.
        
               | sildur wrote:
               | Try it, it works. Parent probably tried a very old
               | version of LineageOS.
        
               | aneutron wrote:
               | That is true. Can you please point me to a guide to get
               | it working ? Thanks in advance !
        
               | sildur wrote:
               | Well, I installed it in a Samsung S10, but here is a
               | guide for your phone:
               | 
               | https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sunfish/
        
             | Bombthecat wrote:
             | And camera isn't that great anymore.. You can't use the drm
             | drivers anymore.
        
             | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
             | I was happy with my Pixel 4A until I left it in my jacket
             | pocket during heavy rain. The resulting humidity was enough
             | to definitely kill it. I get that it has no IP rating at
             | all so it's entirely my fault but still it's the first time
             | this has ever happened to me in fifteen years of owning a
             | mobile phone. The 4A is just extremely not waterproof.
             | 
             | After that, I'm never buying another cheap Pixel again.
        
               | unicornporn wrote:
               | > it has no IP rating at all
               | 
               | Just wtf. I had a $130 phone with Lineage die on me the
               | same way recently. No IP on that machine, but if you pay
               | for a Pixel you should definitely have it.
        
           | Anarch157a wrote:
           | An hour to spare _after_ waiting a week for Xiaomi to
           | authorize unlocking of the bootloader. I bought a Poco X3 Pro
           | yesterday, the phone is awesome for it 's asking price (R$
           | 1800), but I'll keep using my current one (Redmi Note 4)
           | until next week. Im not sure if I'm going to wipe it and
           | install another ROM or just install root and use Titanium
           | Backup to freeze most of Google and Xiaomi's stuff.
        
           | chronogram wrote:
           | Back when I last looked you had to register an account, use a
           | Windows application and wait a few weeks before being allowed
           | to unlock the phone. Has that been changed then?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | the_third_wave wrote:
             | I'm using a Xiaomi Redmi Note 5 ('whyred') from 2019. The
             | first thing I did was get that unlock code (it took ~3
             | days) and unlock it. For the latter I used MiUnlockTool
             | [1], a Java program which ran OK on Linux - no Windows
             | needed. The tools seems to work on more recent models from
             | what I gather at the related XDA thread [2].
             | 
             | [1] https://xiaomitool.com/MiUnlockTool
             | 
             | [2] https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tool-win-lin-mac-
             | miunlock...
        
             | mkup wrote:
             | Windows application is still required, but loader unlock
             | was granted instantly after creation of a new Xiaomi
             | account last time I tried it (last Friday for Xiaomi
             | Pocophone F1).
        
             | as1mov wrote:
             | The waiting is kinda random really. I didn't have to wait
             | at all, as the unlock code was available instantly.
             | Regarding the account, I just used a spare throwaway SIM
             | and a Windows VM for that. -\\_(tsu)_/-
             | 
             | Though most of the brands (except Nokia and Samsung) seem
             | to have pretty reasonable terms for unlocking the
             | bootloader and aren't as ass-backwards as Xiaomi's.
        
             | zozbot234 wrote:
             | That's not required on A series phones, which ship with a
             | mostly stock Android as opposed to the custom MIUI.
        
               | berdario wrote:
               | The last one they released is the Mi A3 in July 2019.
               | They discontinued the line and never released the A4
        
               | Pyramus wrote:
               | A tragedy.
               | 
               | Xiaomi once conducted a poll on Twitter which OS users
               | prefer - MIUI or Stock. 80 % or so voted for Stock
               | Android hence Xiaomi deleted the poll.
        
             | f00zz wrote:
             | Wow, unlocking a Xperia is super easy.
        
             | dmos62 wrote:
             | Wow, we've had very different experiences with LineageOS.
        
               | snemvalts wrote:
               | I don't think that's lineageOS, it's for unlocking the
               | bootloader on Xiaomi phones
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | publicola1990 wrote:
       | Xiaomi makes a whole gamut of electronic products from robot
       | vacuums to smart rice cookers, and perhaps offers some sort of
       | integration between all their product lines. May be it is one of
       | the reason for their popularity.
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | They also make pretty good phones for the price. Software is
         | supported by ads, an indicator of how successful ad-supported
         | businesses really are.
        
       | roenxi wrote:
       | The first thought that leaps to my mind, on reviewing this, is
       | that Apple is currently facing a court case in Australia accusing
       | it of being a monopolist. And is facing various hostile inquires,
       | in conjunction with Google [0] as people worry about the power of
       | US tech giants.
       | 
       | It is interesting to me to try and square the software with the
       | obviously (1) competitive and (2) East Asian reality of the
       | hardware. The hardware makers must be in a great position to pull
       | another Apple if they think the market is actually uncompetitive.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26920869
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | I have a hard time squaring that optimism with the ban of
         | Huawei and the ban requests made by the US administration for
         | Xiaomi as well.
        
       | grishka wrote:
       | Xiaomi is able to make their phones so cheap by making their
       | software as crappy as possible. They collect a lot of data (yes,
       | their calculator app has a privacy policy) and sometimes show
       | ads. You need a Xiaomi account to enable debugging (adb).
       | 
       | Though they're still immensely popular here in Russia.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | so no account > no adb > no root, right ?
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | You also need an account to unlock the bootloader.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | Even with Android One phones?
        
         | the_third_wave wrote:
         | > You need a Xiaomi account to enable debugging (adb).
         | 
         | Just unlock and root the thing as soon as you get it and Xiaomi
         | will not get any data - either put LineageOS on it or de-fang
         | MIUI by removing the nasty bits. Don't use the phone with a
         | logged-in Mi account, the only valid reason for using the Mi
         | account is to get the unlock code. Once unlocked and rooted you
         | can remove nearly all the Mi-account-related parts from the
         | phone as well as the ad-related APKs. If you happen to disable
         | debugging over USB (adb) you can re-enable it without using a
         | Mi account (in a terminal, use root):                  setprop
         | persist.security.adbinput 1        setprop
         | persist.security.adbinstall 1
         | 
         | Open _/ data/data/com.miui.securitycenter/shared_prefs/remote_p
         | rovider_preferences.xml_ in an editor and add _< boolean
         | name="security_adb_install_enable" value="true" />_ before the
         | closing _< /map>_ tag. Reboot the device and voila, adb works
         | again.
         | 
         | ...or just install LineageOS and be done with it, you'll
         | probably end up doing this anyway so why wait?
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | If you have root, you could as well remount /system read-
           | write and delete that "security center" crap altogether.
        
           | oriolid wrote:
           | It doesn't help if you're an app developer. All you can do is
           | to keep hacking around Xiaomi's bugs because the users sure
           | won't install LineageOS. The part about preventing adb is
           | just icing on the cake. The nice part is that unlike with
           | Samsung, the users know that they're buying crap and often
           | don't really expect apps to work.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | In my experience they do expect them to work and complain
             | the loudest. And then there's Meizu. No idea what it's like
             | now, but ~5 years ago they meddled with the system
             | framework enough to make my app crash. We had to buy one of
             | those phones and I then decompiled their POS ROM to work
             | around this madness. I had to ask myself "how on earth did
             | this pass Google's CTS" multiple times, and the answer
             | apparently was "it never did".
        
               | oriolid wrote:
               | I hadn't even heard about Meizu before. Just the ad copy
               | "Better Android Experience" sounds like it's going to be
               | non-standard in everything it does.
        
         | Proven wrote:
         | Their sourcing and labor practices possibly save a dollar or
         | two
         | 
         | https://knowthechain.org/wp-content/uploads/2020_KTC_ICT_Sco...
        
           | viztor wrote:
           | I'm honestly confused why you linked a data sheet that
           | practically has no data.
        
           | berdario wrote:
           | That seems to be an empty report.
           | 
           | "engaged with knowthechain: No"
           | 
           | So, basically they got no data, and had to assume the worst.
           | 
           | I'm sympathetic with Knowthechain: they don't have an easy
           | job, they have to be able to reach out to any company in the
           | world and get an answer...
           | 
           | But I also think that this doesn't mean much.
        
       | buybackoff wrote:
       | For me the greatest value is 2+ days battery and the fact that
       | I'm not afraid to loose/break EUR200 phone vs EUR600, while
       | Xiaomi is better in many aspects. Went to it 5 years ago after
       | using flagship Samsung models also for c.5 years, could not stand
       | for abysmal battery and their UI.
       | 
       | Ad bloat could be disabled in settings, I did not see too many
       | suspicious logs in Netguard (calls to Facebook APIs were much
       | more frequent, even from apps that have nothing to do with FB).
       | But that's is an EU country, I've read that Xiomi at least tries
       | not to annoy regulators too much there with privacy issues, going
       | for market share.
       | 
       | Also most bloatware (even their browser) could be uninstalled in
       | 10 minutes, just google "Xiaomi debloat", or go directly to
       | https://github.com/Szaki/XiaomiADBFastbootTools
        
         | reader_mode wrote:
         | I would like this to be true (who doesn't want to pay less for
         | the same experience) but it's very much not the case. Eg. two
         | years ago I broke my one plus 6, I went to a local mall - they
         | have a Xiaomi store there and a Samsung shop, I spent like 20
         | mins playing with the phones in each store and you could
         | immediately see which was the premium brand between the two. I
         | still pass by regularly to check things out and get the same
         | impression.
         | 
         | When it comes to high end hardware the only phones that I've
         | seen come close also cost in the same ballpark. Frankly you get
         | what you pay for, diminishing returns are a thing but you can
         | still see a clear difference between 200EUR and 600EUR phone.
         | Even the iPhone 12max my wife has can justify the price with
         | the insane photo/video quality for a phone.
        
           | buybackoff wrote:
           | Well, I said "better in many aspects", not overall better.
           | For me, the camera is not that much important. It's good
           | enough on Xiaomi, but obviously it's better on iPhone.
           | 
           | It's personal preferences, for me the aspects of long battery
           | life and turning the device into disposable cattle, not a
           | pet, are much more important. The display on Xiaomi is
           | decent, and that plus fast responsive apps the display shows
           | is all I need from a phone.
        
       | meibo wrote:
       | They're flooding the market with good, very very cheap
       | smartphones - it's no surprise.
       | 
       | Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships, a
       | $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient. I see them a lot nowadays.
       | 
       | Makes me wonder if it's sustainable.
        
         | Iolaum wrote:
         | Considering their data collection capabilities, I d say they
         | are sustainable...
        
           | _huayra_ wrote:
           | Exactly. Considering how Samsung is coming out with cheaper
           | phones these days due to competition, I don't think it's
           | worth completely yeeting one's privacy out the window, even
           | if the Xiaomi models have better specs. I know Android phones
           | are still big Google spying devices, but given the state of
           | the tech world, I'd prefer to have Google spy on me than a
           | shadowy Chinese company.
           | 
           | Does it really matter if it has 4x the cameras of a cheap
           | Samsung if it sends all the photos to some server in China on
           | the sneak?
        
             | yorwba wrote:
             | Just install LineageOS on it and have nobody spy on you:
             | https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#xiaomi
        
               | jcynix wrote:
               | How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which
               | handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you? Or your
               | telecom provider from tracking you?
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I like these free OS versions, but
               | while I could teach my wife, my mother in law etc to
               | manage Netguard, I couldn't teach them to handle Lineage,
               | f-Droid all by themselves.
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | > How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which
               | handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you?
               | 
               | Is that part even made by Xiaomi?
        
               | swiley wrote:
               | Usually its made by Qualcomm.
        
               | gadf wrote:
               | Just install ANOM
               | 
               | or Telegram
               | 
               | Or Signal
               | 
               | And _have nobody spy on you_
               | 
               | "Trust me, I'm Italian."
        
             | stelonix wrote:
             | It's interesting, because coming from a country that's been
             | targeted by US interventionism in the past, I'm pretty ok
             | with Xiaomi spying on me, not so much when it comes to
             | Google.
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | I'm not too happy about anyone spying on me, and I'm also
               | unhappy about corporations vetoing software I want to
               | install.
               | 
               | Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is
               | another person's "liberated by democratic forces".
        
               | sdoering wrote:
               | > Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is
               | another person's "liberated by democratic forces".
               | 
               | Does newspeaking it make it better?
               | 
               | And if one would look at the examples of "liberation by
               | democratic forces" over the last decades I feel that it
               | is somewhat difficult to find an instance that wasn't a
               | prime example of securing natural ressources or ensuring
               | of keeping the global power structure intact.
               | 
               | I might be naive (or even contrarian to the US policy)
               | bbut wwere aare tthe purely humanistic examples of Uncle
               | Sam mingling in foreign affairs?
               | 
               | Imho the US should keep their fingers out of others'
               | proverbial cookie jars.
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | _> Does newspeaking it make it better?_
               | 
               | The difference in language is often just political
               | rhetoric. The difference in substance became very clear
               | to me talking to my grandfather who was liberated by
               | democratic forces and would have been insulted by having
               | that called "targeted by US interventionism".
               | 
               | There are good reasons for both sentiments based on
               | actual, sometimes painful, experience. We should respect
               | that.
               | 
               | It's a very complex and off-topic subject. That's why I'm
               | not going into the details of the various conflicts in
               | recent decades.
        
               | sdoering wrote:
               | I am not denying that there are examples of democratic
               | liberation. Especially from history. Take the Yugoslavia
               | conflict. Intervention by an international force there
               | was at the time probably the lesser evil. It stopped
               | genocide (a great plus in my book) while at the same time
               | generating hatred that created terrorism (a big minus).
               | 
               | There are no easy answers.
               | 
               | But most current interventions as well as many historic
               | ones were not motivated by ulterior motives but by
               | economic ones and questions of power.
               | 
               | Coming from Germany and having studied history I must ask
               | myself when did liberation turn to intervention because
               | of political or economical gains? While keeping the
               | rhetoric more or less the same.
               | 
               | There is imho a difference between WW II or Yugoslavia
               | and Kuwait. Or Irak. Or even Afghanistan. Or Serbia. Or
               | different South American states were intervention is
               | often less militaristic.
               | 
               | I feel we need to have a way to differentiate and look
               | closer to be able to discuss without falling back to
               | ideology or "party lines".
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | I agree completely. My intention wasn't to toe any party
               | line. On the contrary, I think the history of many
               | conflicts is so ugly and complex that people can
               | legitimately feel very differently about the same event.
               | 
               | I can't even begin to imagine how various groups of
               | people (ethnic groups, women, young men, ...) or
               | individuals in Afghanistan may feel about the various
               | interventions during the past half century.
        
               | stelonix wrote:
               | Sure we were liberated by having a military junta take
               | power for 21 years. Civil liberties vanished and people
               | were secretly disappeared. Great democratic liberation!
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | I certainly don't claim that every intervention is
               | liberation. My point is precisely that it's not that
               | simple. It can be either or both at the same time for
               | different people in different conflicts.
        
               | stelonix wrote:
               | My point is that there's no such a thing as "liberation",
               | since interventions are known to be used as a pretext to
               | project power. Calling it "liberation" is an euphemism
               | for what it really is. No nation should meddle in other's
               | internal affairs.
        
               | fauigerzigerk wrote:
               | I strongly disagree with that. In my opinion, the
               | sovereignty of nation states does not have priority over
               | all other concerns under all circumstances. But this is
               | certainly a very complex issue.
        
               | AniseAbyss wrote:
               | And that's why countries have armies. Sovereignty is not
               | a right that is granted by the UN Security council it's
               | taken and held by military force.
        
             | AniseAbyss wrote:
             | Just slap Blokada on it. Personally I don't give a shit
             | about privacy since I never see any advertising.
             | 
             | What use is it if a company knows everything about me when
             | they can't use that information to sell me things?
        
           | jcynix wrote:
           | I'm running Netguard (app) as a firewall on them, set to
           | block all traffic and then allow traffic only for solid apps
           | where I need/want traffic to happen. Works like a charm, can
           | even log in pcap format to analyze traffic.
        
             | RamRodification wrote:
             | Wouldn't the hardware vendor of the device be able to
             | bypass that?
        
               | gnfargbl wrote:
               | From a quick look, yes they would and the NetGuard FAQ on
               | GitHub explicitly acknowledges that:
               | https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-
               | con...
               | 
               | That doesn't mean this is a worthless thing to run.
               | Unless you are being specifically targeted, security
               | measures that simply put you outside the main herd can
               | still be effective.
        
               | jcynix wrote:
               | Both the hardware vendor and the vendor of the mobile
               | phone's "black box" talking to your telecom could, of
               | course. Potentially some chips inside could do nasty
               | things, even if you'd install LineageOS for example.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | Why are the Nexus phones so expensive then?
           | 
           | Edit: Pixels
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | Uh, the last Nexus phone came out in 2015? If you mean
             | Pixels, they're targeting other market with them, they're
             | competing with Apple. There's a cheaper "A" line (4a, 3a).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Krasnol wrote:
         | Why shouldn't it be sustainable?
         | 
         | The market for cheap phones is much bigger than for the
         | expensive ones and as you see from the Apple numbers: the
         | expensive market is pretty much covered. Also covered in an
         | separate environment form where those users are reluctant to
         | switch because it's hard to learn again.
         | 
         | imho I think that fighting for the low budget Android market
         | makes much more sense than for the high price Apple audience as
         | "Apple" has become the "I can afford it"-message of prestige
         | this group is looking for and therefore won't be replaced by
         | anything else. Even if you buy the most expensive Samsung,
         | you'd have to explain how expensive it was first to your
         | audience. There is no need with Apple. Everybody knows you've
         | spend a lot of money on it.
        
           | NicoJuicy wrote:
           | That's not the case with refurbished ones though.
        
             | Krasnol wrote:
             | Or fake ones but that's not the point.
        
         | arcturus17 wrote:
         | If you want a sub $200 Apple product you can go down the refurb
         | route. I'm having an outstanding experience with a refurb
         | iPhone 8.
        
           | bitcoinmoney wrote:
           | Where to get it somewhere with good reputation?
        
             | arcturus17 wrote:
             | Amazon has a one-year guarantee reseller program, at least
             | here in Europe. It consists of third-party sellers and you
             | can further drill down to check _their_ reputation. I've
             | been lucky thus far and would've probably persevered even
             | if I had gotten a lemon - I would've simply returned it for
             | a new one, maybe from a different seller.
        
             | wenc wrote:
             | I've had good experience with: (they're a French unicorn)
             | 
             | https://www.backmarket.com/
             | 
             | There are others:
             | 
             | https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/12/not-
             | all...
        
           | gajjanag wrote:
           | Seconded. I did this first with a first gen iPhone SE that I
           | got for $100 on ebay from a seller with good reputation as a
           | trial.
           | 
           | Been happy enough, so I bought a like new second gen iPhone
           | SE for $250.
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | >Makes me wonder if it's sustainable.
         | 
         | While there are some suspicious of doggy accounting practice
         | and also political investment, Xiaomi is actually a company
         | listed in HKSE 1810.HK [1] with positive cash flow and
         | operating income. Currently valued at around ~$90B USD.
         | 
         | Their phone are at a very low gross margin but their other
         | products, or they call it the Xiaomi ecosystem is quite
         | profitable. ( Comparatively Speaking ). And of course they earn
         | most of their profits from selling Data and Ads. Which to be
         | fair is similar to Google. ( _Cough_ on the surface because we
         | dont know how those Data are used _Cough_ )
         | 
         | So to answer your question, it is sustainable. And they
         | benefited most from the Huawei incident.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/1810.HK?p=1810.HK&.tsrc=fin-...
        
         | the_third_wave wrote:
         | > Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships,
         | a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient
         | 
         | Let me rephrase that for you: Especially for people _who
         | realise they_ don 't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is
         | more than sufficient.
         | 
         | It has nothing whatsoever to do with age, my 16yo daughter is
         | more than satisfied with her Redmi Note 5 - she wanted one when
         | she saw mine. Good battery life, good screen, more than fast
         | enough and plenty of memory, 3.5mm jack, can take an SD card.
         | Show me the "flagship" phone which offers this combination.
         | 
         | Phones have been fast enough for years now, screens, memory and
         | storage have been big enough. Add LineageOS and you have a
         | device which can easily last for 6 years, longer when you
         | change the battery. I'm using a Samsung SIIIneo from 2014 with
         | LineageOS 17.1 (Android 10) as a second device, it receives
         | weekly OTA updates (which I generally do not install, but still
         | - they're there). With a new battery it lasts for 2-3 days
         | between charges when used for audio streaming through bluetooth
         | or the speaker.
        
           | reactspa wrote:
           | I like that my Xiaomi Max 2 from 2017 has a 3.5mm jack, can
           | take an SD card, AND has an infrared port (and so works as a
           | remote for my TV and DVD player).
           | 
           | Xiaomi, if you're listening, please continue to make at least
           | one line of phone that has these features.
        
         | siruncledrew wrote:
         | Jio is doing the same gameplan in India, and that's already
         | proven successful as far as I can tell.
         | 
         | I think it's sustainable considering the vast majority of the
         | world can't afford an iPhone or even a Samsung, so there's a
         | large market. Also, once someone has a phone that can run a web
         | browser, have a camera, and use messaging apps, then that's
         | basically set for this target market.
        
         | murukesh_s wrote:
         | >Makes me wonder if it's sustainable.
         | 
         | The pricing is now norm in Asia for last several years. In fact
         | Xiaomi is not #1 in terms of quality or value for money. It's
         | Oppo/Realme/OnePlus (all are same hardware). They do not have
         | ads like Xiaomi and pretty much retail for the same price and
         | ship millions of hardware. The quality is definitely higher
         | with Oppo/Realme (budget options) having same quality as
         | Oneplus (premium).
        
           | machiaweliczny wrote:
           | Doesn't Oneplus have better software? Oppo is not popular in
           | EU.
        
         | Hokusai wrote:
         | > Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships
         | 
         | I am not so old, and I also have enough with a cheap
         | smartphone. I just use mail, instant messaging, maps and
         | government and bank apps. None of these need advanced graphics
         | or fast CPUs. Interestingly I need access to Google Play as
         | many official apps from the government are not available in
         | alternative stores.
         | 
         | Said that, I got a Xiaomi cheap tablet and I had a bad
         | experience as it was full of ad-ware and I was not able to
         | install Google Play. The lack of official apps in the Xiaomi
         | app store is not really their fault, but all the ad-ware is, I
         | suspect, why the tablet was so extremely cheap. So, good enough
         | hardware specifications, but somewhat disappointed at the
         | software part.
        
           | fomine3 wrote:
           | I believe they won't sell device without Google outside
           | China. Don't buy devices for Chinese market unless you're
           | going to modify it!
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | Never mind "older people", some Xiaomi devices have the same
         | performance as flagships costing twice as much.
         | 
         | I have a Xiaomi Mi 9 SE (had it almost 2 years now), and it's
         | the best phone I've ever owned. Previously I'd owned flagship
         | Samsungs and an iPhone 6.
         | 
         | It's powerful, the display is excellent, the battery lasts 2
         | days even with plenty use (unusual these days!), the cameras
         | are excellent, and the device itself looks great. Oh, and it
         | cost PS340 at a time when flagship equivalents were around
         | twice that - amazing value for money.
         | 
         | Service is great too - the phone stopped charging at some
         | point, but it was fixed within a few days of initial contact,
         | with no quibbling.
         | 
         | My only gripe is the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack, but that's
         | hardly a unique issue.
        
           | bamboozled wrote:
           | How can it really be that much better than a flagship iPhone?
           | 
           | This kind of reads like your a person who hates the price of
           | iPhones? Either that or I read like an Apple fan boy;
           | However, I'm a pretty keen Linux / PC user and I don't think
           | I'm that bias?
        
             | GordonS wrote:
             | I think perhaps you're reading something into my comment
             | that I just don't believe is there.
             | 
             | It's simply an anecdote from a random HN user who has a
             | Xiaomi device, in a thread about Xiaomi; I figured they'd
             | be relatively rare among HN users, and someone might
             | appreciate a comment from an owner.
             | 
             | I don't hate iPhones, or the Samsung I've owned. They all
             | have different attributes and values: the iPhone 6 was
             | _beautiful_ to look at, and the physical size was great;
             | the last Galaxy I had was a great all-rounder; the Xiaomi I
             | have now is a little larger than I 'd like (though that's
             | the way everyone has gone now), but otherwise it's very
             | good in almost any regard. Is it _better_ than an iPhone or
             | the latest Galaxy? I 'm not saying that - what I'm saying
             | is that it does everything I need and more, and was half
             | the price of flagships at the time. Way I see it, that's
             | incredible value for an extremely capable device.
        
             | ksec wrote:
             | It is sort of like, Yes and No it depends.
             | 
             | There are reasons why things are little bit more expensive
             | to make. And those add up quickly. The flexible OLED panel
             | is more than double the BOM cost of rigid OLED even at the
             | scale of Apple. For Apple that is ~$150+ of RSP increase
             | form a single component. It is not only just being rigid,
             | but they are also a higher quality panel. People often only
             | look at " _spec_ " on the surface without actually going it
             | into details. Add up the cost of iOS ( $10 on accounting
             | basis or $30 for RSP ), Face ID etc you are looking at $200
             | RSP extra already without going into any many other
             | differences. Of course the main thing being Apple has a
             | gross product margin of 60% compared to Xiaomi at ~10%. ( I
             | think they raised this to 15%+ due to operating cost being
             | higher outside China )
             | 
             | It is also worth remembering. Hardware is insanely cheap.
             | Comparatively speaking. We talk about moore's law ending
             | because of higher cost of making chips, at the same time we
             | keep making dozen of billions from stupid social network
             | and ads. The number by comparison are often comical. The
             | cost of a product are now mostly driven by software when
             | Apple are still giving iOS update to a phone first released
             | 6 years ago.
             | 
             | It might also be worth noting, the entry level iPhone,
             | iPhone SE, has faster single thread performance ( Very
             | important due to Amdahl's law ) than the best flagship
             | Android Phone on the market. You have to price this in
             | somewhere.
        
               | shuckles wrote:
               | Apple's overall margins are around 35%. Where do you see
               | that iPhone has 60% margins?
        
               | ksec wrote:
               | Apple over the years has an extremely consistent 60%
               | margin on iPhone from BOM cost to RSP, that is excluding
               | NRE, patents, Services, iOS, distribution and many other
               | things. This distorted a bit once they introduce iPhone X
               | in 2017 / 2018 along with their Services Revenue
               | accounting changes.
        
             | zibzab wrote:
             | Xiaomi has in past shown extremely innovative solutions.
             | Just look at the battery life they achieved with mi band (3
             | months vs competitors 18 hours, are you kidding me??).
             | 
             | So while their software is basically adware and like all
             | Chinese companies they are probably controlled by CCP, we
             | must acknowledge that they also have some really bright
             | engineers.
        
             | jules wrote:
             | A big reason why people buy iPhones is the Apple ecosystem
             | and status signalling. A $300 Xiaomi phone also isn't as
             | good as a flagship iPhone, but it's ~90% as good for 1/3
             | the price. For people who spend several hours per day on
             | their phone, it isn't irrational to buy an iPhone.
             | Americans spend on average 5.4 hours per day on their
             | phone. Over two years, the savings from a Xiaomi phone come
             | out to less than 20 cents per hour use. For these people it
             | may well be worth the 20 cents for an hour of better phone
             | experience. I think Samsung should be way more worried than
             | Apple.
        
             | Synaesthesia wrote:
             | Note he compared it to an iPhone 6.
        
       | baybal2 wrote:
       | Not really, if you count _a vendor_ , and not _a brand_ , the
       | whole of BBK group has long been the 1
        
       | trm42 wrote:
       | Out of curiosity: Is it possible that the US Government will do
       | the same for Xiaomi that they did to Huawei? If so, how long will
       | it take?
        
         | Wronnay wrote:
         | Xiaomi already was on a blacklist in the past:
         | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/xiaomi-u-...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | Huawei is perceived as a problem because they are big in
         | infrastructure.
         | 
         | Xiaomi does smartphones that run on Qualcomm chips and Android.
         | Of course there are always games and tit-for-tat but on the
         | face of it Xiaomi is rather innocuous and benefits US companies
         | (and that's probably why it was removed from the US blacklist).
        
           | throwaway4good wrote:
           | Huawei designing their own chipsets seems to be the big
           | thing.
           | 
           | We will see what happens if Xiaomi starts using main chipsets
           | from Unisoc or another Chinese designer.
        
         | nobody0 wrote:
         | Not likely, though Xiaomi is a bit bigger now, it is not really
         | posing noticeable technical superiority that Huawei was
         | regarded.
        
         | timwaagh wrote:
         | Xiaomi doesn't provide the kind of network infrastructure that
         | Huawei does. So they don't have access to the kind of data that
         | concerned us policymakers.
        
           | patrickaljord wrote:
           | If everyone start using their phones, they kind of will. I
           | would guess it's easier to spy on people when you own the
           | hardware and OS. Maybe the infrastructure would allow broader
           | spying but owning a big part of the smartphone market allows
           | for more in-depth spying for those with Xiaomi phones.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-18 23:02 UTC)