[HN Gopher] Fasting lowers blood pressure by reshaping the gut m...
___________________________________________________________________
Fasting lowers blood pressure by reshaping the gut microbiota
Author : porterde
Score : 89 points
Date : 2021-07-17 16:50 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sciencedaily.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencedaily.com)
| qwertox wrote:
| When I do sports (riding bike every day for at least one hour in
| mostly anaerobic mode) after not eating for at least 18 hours or
| so (which I don't do often), I feel like I've got unlimited
| resources of energy available.
| nradov wrote:
| Color me skeptical. In the anaerobic zone you're going to be at
| something like 90% of max heart rate and getting almost all of
| your energy from carbohydrate stores. Most people deplete those
| in less than an hour, especially when fasted.
|
| When I'm following a polarized training program I find I can do
| the long, slow aerobic workouts just fine when fasted. But when
| doing high intensity anaerobic intervals I fall apart quickly
| if I haven't eaten some carbs before.
| porknubbins wrote:
| As a runner I was told that the liver holds about 600
| calories of glucose, which would be roughly an hour of
| exercise. Though the body doesn't run straight to the egde of
| zero glucose, I think it alters the fat/glucose ratio during
| the first hour of exercise and the 50/50 point is about 30
| minutes. Obviously very roughly and assuming normal
| physiology but matches your experience.
| nradov wrote:
| The fat/glucose ratio depends on effort intensity and
| individual physiology. At very low aerobic intensities
| metabolically healthy people get most of their energy from
| fat. As intensity increases the mix shifts until you're
| burning almost 100% glucose and 0% fat near max anaerobic
| effort. This makes sense because fat metabolism requires
| more oxygen and you hit a limit on how much oxygen you can
| pull into your bloodstream. Once stored glucose is depleted
| then either you need to consume some carbs, or drop the
| intensity way down. The point at which that happens varies
| widely based on multiple variables.
| qwertox wrote:
| I must add to this that I'm a bit overweight, since I don't
| do any upper body training. I have a BMI of 28 with strong
| muscles in the legs and probably a good heart, but a lot of
| belly fat. My HRmax is usually a bit below 180, but
| definitely above 175, so I'm in anaerobic mode at above 145,
| where 150 to 160 is what I usually aim for, tending towards
| the lower limit.
|
| My theory is that at this point I'm somehow just taking the
| energy out of the body fat, but I'm probably very wrong with
| this assumption.
| amelius wrote:
| How do you ride bike in anaerobic mode consistently without
| going dangerously fast?
|
| I've been looking for a device that makes pedaling heavier if
| activated but haven't found it yet.
| nradov wrote:
| Find a steep hill and you can pedal as hard as you like
| without going very fast. But in general there's nothing
| particularly dangerous about riding fast if you have decent
| bike handling skills and watch out for traffic.
| amelius wrote:
| Unfortunately, changing the route of my daily commute to
| one with more hills is not really an option.
| snthd wrote:
| A parachute?
| slumdev wrote:
| The tachycardia experienced by skydivers isn't the same
| sort of stimulation that exercisers are looking for. But
| it's an interesting thought.
| amelius wrote:
| Hehe, not practical on my daily commute. It also doesn't
| work with strong tailwinds.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| stationary bike. but keeping a top % hr for an hour straight
| is very impressive if true.
| fahadkhan wrote:
| A dynamo connected to a resistance will do. An old bike had a
| dynamo connected to a rechargeable light, the bike felt
| heavier the more the battery depleted.
|
| Alternatively get a Turbo trainer or rollers with resistance
| for stationary training. Lots of people love it but it's not
| for me, though rollers aren't bad but the it gets very hot
| even outdoors with a fan.
| amelius wrote:
| I investigated the dynamo solution, but it turns out that
| modern dynamos have a large airgap which ensures that you
| can only get a few watts of energy out of them (so you
| don't overload the lights).
| porknubbins wrote:
| Without hills the only way is to ride in a suburban or rural
| area. You can do 25-30mph safely for miles between lights
| there which, should be hard enough for most people. Big
| cities are fundamentally not safe serious athletic cycling,
| anaerobic or otherwise. At best you spike your heartrate
| sprinting between lights then stress your body with high HR
| waiting at a light. Or guys will do near 30mph in a paceline
| around Central Park and act offended when some tourist steps
| out in front of them.
| reedjosh wrote:
| Yes, your body is then running on fat via ketones.
|
| I once did a 6 mile hike in (and up) weekend camping trip with
| just some salt for electrolytes and a pack of hotdogs.
| frereubu wrote:
| This study is in rats, and if I'm reading the article correctly
| it also involves a population of rats that are bred to be
| predisposed to hypertension. So although it sounds like there are
| some interesting anecdata stories in the comments, this is very
| far from being generalisable to human populations. Seems like it
| would be a pretty easy study to do in humans though, to the point
| where I wonder if it hasn't been done already, even if not
| specifically focused on gut bacteria.
| tdaltonc wrote:
| Intermittent fasting has previously been shown (in humans!) to
| lower blood pressure.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29754952/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28202779/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19793855/
|
| Also improve insulin sensitivity, reduce glucose and/or insulin
| levels, improve lipid profiles, and reduce markers of
| inflammation and oxidative stress.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23408502/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27833048/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27569118/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23497604/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16051710/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23591120/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20921964/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27233359/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15833943/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15640462/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28035343/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25251676/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17291990/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22889512/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29258678/
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25546413/
| walshemj wrote:
| Interesting after I had been on antibiotics continuously for an
| extended period - the corelectoral surgeon prescribed a course of
| symprove probiotic.
|
| Which does seem to make me feel a lot beter il have to experiment
| with fasting as well.
| zkirill wrote:
| Fasting was one of the most memorable and shaping experiences of
| my life. I fasted for three days (72 hours of nothing but water)
| and observed so many interesting and fascinating things happening
| to my body each day: skin flare ups and subsequent clearings,
| changes in mouth and gut odour, periods of brain fog and brain
| clarity, cravings followed by complete loss of feeling of hunger.
| Every passing day had different effects. The most memorable was
| an astronomical improvement in my olefactory senses. By day two I
| was able to pick out the smell of individual ingredients in any
| dish being prepared in my vicinity. By day three, I lost the
| majority of my muscle mass.
|
| The one and only time I ever did this was when I was young and in
| extremely good health (daily intense exercise, excellent diet, no
| health conditions). Slightly worried about doing it again today.
| Also, quite concerned having since learned that brain mass is the
| first stored energy source your body will go after during what is
| effectively starvation. Perhaps someone more knowledge on here
| can comment on how true that is.
| xedrac wrote:
| I highly doubt you lost the majority of your muscle mass,
| unless you had very little fat on your body. More likely is you
| depleted all glycogen stores in your muscles which is mostly
| water, making your muscles deflate significantly.
| zkirill wrote:
| Maybe you're right. It was a long time ago. The only points
| of data that I have is that I had a "college athlete" level
| of fat around my heart as per my sonogram and it took me
| months of work to rebuild my muscle mass.
| ekabod wrote:
| You don't seem to know what a muscle is.
| snthd wrote:
| https://doi.org/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.120.318155
| inglor_cz wrote:
| N == 1 here.
|
| I had a _huge_ drop in blood pressure once I started fasting
| daily. Even though I lost only a modest amount of weight (approx.
| 10 pounds; I was never obese, only slightly overweight with BMI
| cca 27), my blood pressure plummetted from 150 /95 _with
| medication_ to some 115 /75 _without medication_ within a month.
|
| This holds even when I no longer fast daily, only a few times a
| week. Additional Concor, taken against post-Covid arrhythmias,
| reduced my BP to some 105/70 when relaxed. Going any lower would
| actually mean a risk of fainting.
|
| This seems to be consistent with the theory of gut microbiota
| being reshaped. I can also tolerate milk slightly better than
| before; my tolerance still has limits, but I won't get a rash
| after a single cappuccino, which I most definitely used to
| before.
| aNoob7000 wrote:
| What was your fasting routine? and for how long did you do it?
| Just interested in seeing what others are doing. I know there's
| 16-8 (16 hours no-eating, 8 hours where you can eat).
| inglor_cz wrote:
| See my other reply here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27868099
| pokot0 wrote:
| Do you mind sharing your daily fasting routine. I only tried
| intermittently and always wanted to give it a more serious try
| and I have to start somewhere.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| My sweet spot seems to be 18/6.
|
| I prefer to go without breakfast and have a lunch and a
| dinner 6 hours apart, because I hate to sleep with an empty
| stomach. I drink unsweetened coffee and tea (0 calories and
| may act as appetite suppressant). I generally limit sugar in
| my food, though not to zero.
|
| On my non-fasting days, I have a breakfast, but I try to have
| no more than 3 meals a day. No snacking.
|
| I decide whether to fast or not by the state of my hunger in
| the morning. If I am ravenous, I have a breakfast and a non-
| fasting day. If I feel only slightly empty, I go without
| breakfast to a total length of 17-19 hours of fasting.
|
| I am now experimenting with continuous glucose meter to find
| out what meals send my glucose too high. This, again, seems
| to be individual. Rice and potatoes seem to act really crazy.
| Interestingly, pizza not so much.
| 1_player wrote:
| 18/6 has never done anything to my BP, I've been doing it
| for 10 years.
|
| I suspect the biggest impact was trying to lose weight and
| changing your diet. In my case changing my diet has
| noticeable and immediate effect to any physiological metric
| than any other "trick".
| inglor_cz wrote:
| I didn't change composition of my diet much back then,
| but I noticed that on days when I fast longer, my BP goes
| even lower. I could probably fast myself into
| lightheadedness now on Concor (not that I want to).
|
| People are fairly diverse, so different reactions are to
| be expected. Our gut microbiota is diverse, too.
|
| I also noticed that even slight amounts of alcohol (1
| glass of wine) are visible on my BP for about 24 hours
| after. An increase of 5-7 points.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Last year I fasted for a week just to see if I could do it, I
| really wish I had before/after stats and bloodwork done. I
| don't think it's something I will do again.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| It depends on your internal (fat) reserves. I'm 58kg 1m83
| (BMI 17.32), so I wouldn't really try such a long period. But
| there are days I eat a lot, I build some glycogen reserves
| (easily available fat, made from glucose) due to my diet with
| much fruits, or other stuff like rice, honey, then the next
| days I can fast intermittently and use that glycogen. As a
| result I can't really gain weight, it always balance itself
| to that weight.
|
| I think people with more weight, have deeper fat, and it'll
| take longer to use it. I remember seeing an article that our
| ancestors possibly were hibernating. The more fat, the more
| time you can spend fasting, even on a dry fasting (fat holds
| water), but in that case it's important to limit physical
| exercise
| inglor_cz wrote:
| A week! That is a significant fast. My max was 70 hours or
| so; I do not plan to do that again, either.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Well I would say that it gets easier as you go, other than
| you feeling progressively weaker and weaker. You probably
| made it through the worst of the hunger and cravings at 70
| hours
| inglor_cz wrote:
| At the 70 hour mark, I wasn't exactly hungry, but a bit
| irritable, cold and distracted. And yes, a little weaker.
| Pulling off any demanding work in that condition would be
| nigh impossible for me.
| mavci wrote:
| Did you know that fasting for one month a year is obligatory in
| Islam?
|
| "O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was
| decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous.
|
| Fast a prescribed number of days. But whoever of you is ill or on
| a journey, then let them fast an equal number of days after
| Ramadan. For those who can only fast with extreme difficulty,
| compensation can be made by feeding a needy person for every day
| not fasted. But whoever volunteers to give more, it is better for
| them. And to fast is better for you, if only you knew." - Surah
| Al-Baqarah 183-184
| elliekelly wrote:
| I wonder whether anyone has studied the weight (or even gut
| bacteria) of observant muslims compared to the population at
| large.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| Ramadan is for one month and you'd be hard pressed to find a
| lot of obese people seeing as much of the Islamic world is
| not only still developing or war torn, but also very poor.
| You would have to do a study of ones closer to normal western
| standards of a daily diet to get a better control. Otherwise
| of course the weight of a country where you work 12-16 hours
| a day and eat 1600 calories max is going to be full of thin,
| lightweight individuals. The fact that they fast one month
| out of the year would have no large scale effect. Also,
| during Ramadan, you can eat/drink before and after
| sunset/sunrise. So if you gorge, your stomach size increases
| and then naturally adjusts to the schedule so you whole
| digestive system sustains itself over a longer period of time
| as opposed to churning calories as they are incurred.
|
| Edit: my comments on the Islamic world were not a slight.
| It's a factor that should heavily be taken into consideration
| when comparing them against Western nations that do not have
| even remotely the same medical problems in regards to weight.
| slumdev wrote:
| ROCOR's Lenten fast would make a more interesting study.
| nradov wrote:
| Kuwait, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia have some of the highest
| obesity rates in the world.
|
| https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| I can cherry pick places in a set that do not conform to
| the rule too...
|
| The Arab world is about 423 million people[0]. The places
| you've referenced are ~41 million people[2][3][4]. 10%
| that do not conform to the rule is still not the rule.
|
| This does not include other Islamic countries but for the
| sake of berevity we'll just fact in the whole Islamic
| world (including Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia,
| Bangladesh, etc) of 1.8 billion people[1]. Now your
| subset just went from 10% to ~ < 1.25%. You're argument
| is absurdly invalidated statistically right there.
|
| [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world
|
| [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_world
|
| [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia
|
| [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar
|
| [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait
| kadoban wrote:
| You said: "you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of obese
| people". ~41 million isn't enough?
| [deleted]
| roveo wrote:
| As far as I know, during Ramadan you're only allowed to eat and
| drink when it's dark, which is more like a pretty extreme
| version of intermittent fasting (depending on daylight
| duration).
| [deleted]
| dillondoyle wrote:
| And the Iftar tradition basically to break fast with a giant
| meal each sun downn. Makes it seem even more extreme up and
| down.
| mavci wrote:
| yes depending on your daylight, approximately, it takes
| between 13 and 18 hours. I am fasting one month a year, more
| than 10 years, and I can't call extreme, it's more like need
| omosubi wrote:
| I just did a 40 hour fast to see if i could do it and it was a
| lot easier than i thought it would be. I'm trying to build up to
| a week long. We'll see how it goes.
|
| It's a shame that fasting has been eliminated from the culture,
| but i guess that's what happens to things you can't make money
| on.
| WA wrote:
| So many gurus right now make a ton of money from the IF
| (intermittent fasting) craze. You CAN make money off fasting.
| Sell books and courses. Promise a lot etc.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| I did a week long fast. My advice is to be constantly drinking
| water and sleep as much as you can. Make sure you get enough
| electrolytes in your water or you will start feeling like
| you're gonna have a heart attack.
| thebean11 wrote:
| When you say a week of fast, what are you consuming? Surely you
| need something beyond water for such a long fast right?
| coldtea wrote:
| You don't need anything "more than water", but you do need
| some electrolytes thrown in for correct hearth operation.
| dageshi wrote:
| Average healthy but overweight (yes I know this might be a
| contradiction in terms) person can fast that long pretty
| easily without eating anything. That's why the body stored
| the fat in the first place...
| gwd wrote:
| > Surely you need something beyond water for such a long fast
| right?
|
| You need electrolytes for sure; but unless you've recently
| been prepping for a body-building competition, you don't need
| any calories for quite a bit longer than that. I did a week-
| long fast for religious purposes many years ago, before the
| whole IF health craze was a thing. All I had was water, and
| occasionally some salt. I still had plenty of fat at the end
| of it, and I wasn't particularly heavy before.
|
| According to the book I read at the time (again, focusing on
| fasting for religious purposes), it's only after 3-4 weeks
| that a typical person experiences a more urgent type of
| hunger pang, which is the indicator that your body is
| starting to cannibalize critical infrastructure (and that
| it's probably time to stop fasting if you don't want to
| damage your health). People who are actually overweight
| presumably have enough calories to last for months.
|
| Vitamins and minerals are obviously another thing. You're not
| going to get a nutrient deficiency in a week, but you might
| well in a month or two. (I am neither a nutritionist nor a
| doctor.)
| sneak wrote:
| Water, electrolytes, and a multivitamin should be more than
| sufficient.
| ijidak wrote:
| The body stores fat for the exact purpose of surviving
| limited access to food.
|
| Most Americans could go weeks without eating, and they'd be
| mostly fine.
|
| Sudden refeeding is an issue, of course, because of
| electrolyte balance.
|
| But we have a misunderstanding of how long the body can go
| without food, by design.
|
| What we mainly need is water during periods without food.
|
| After about 3 days without food, the body stops telling you
| your hungry and switches to fat metabolism.
| Engineering-MD wrote:
| Just a word of caution, after 7-10 days of fasting, you can get
| refeeding syndrome. This can be pretty unpleasant and
| dangerous, and is best avoided.
| shoto_io wrote:
| I regularly do IF and have seen great results for my weight and
| blood pressure.
|
| Just a word of caution about this study: it's still only an
| animal model (rats). Should be added to the title for clarity.
| rozab wrote:
| Does anyone have any fasting advice from a reputable health
| authority?
|
| For some reason the NHS doesn't really have any online, even
| though a sizeable proportion of the population observe Ramadan.
| They usually have good, well-cited articles on this kind of
| thing.
| tdaltonc wrote:
| What sort of advice are you looking for?
|
| I wrote this, most of the links are to primary research on
| fasting.
|
| https://usetemper.com/learn/metabolic-fitness-no-bigger-oppo...
|
| Most of the primary research isn't really focused on generating
| "advice." If I had to pick the protocol with the best direct
| evidence, I'd pick "early time restricted feeding" (eTRF).
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29754952/ That's what Brian
| Johnson practices. It's not a fasting protocol I would actually
| recommend to most people because it's pretty inconvenient, but
| it's been directly studied as an intervention.
| reedjosh wrote:
| Governmental health bodies are very behind on this topic.
|
| They used to even claim fasting was terribly unhealthy.
| malux85 wrote:
| I have been intermittant fasting for a month now and the results
| are fantastic. The mental clarity alone is worth it, let alone
| the weight loss and general well being (better sleep, better
| digestion)
|
| I only eat for 4 hours a day, some days 1 meal and grazing, other
| days 2 meals, but nothing outside those hours except water and
| tea (with no milk)
|
| I feel fantastic, I'm never going back to any other food
| schedule.
|
| The downside was that the first week was incredibly hard, I felt
| dizzy and had spells of intense anger, but I distanced myself
| from those I love so as not to accidentally explode at them and
| just got through it, now after nearly a month, it feels normal
| and I just feel great. Highly recommend it.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| I know this is rude but what was your weight before you
| started? In my experience and what I've observed, people who
| chant praises of weight loss techniques always fail to disclose
| that they were overweight/obese (in the technical bmi sense).
| It isn't hard to lose weight when you're in that category at
| all. Everybody who is in the obese category can lose 20-30 lbs
| in about a couple of months without question simply by
| maintaining a decent sized caloric deficit. Intermittent
| fasting was not what caused you to lose weight. It is just a
| fad esoteric movement that instructs you to have some self
| restraint. Kinda like a religion.
|
| The one tried and true, definite till the end of time means of
| losing weight is a simple caloric deficit. Eventually with
| intermittent fasting you will hit a wall because you still
| consume the same amount of calories and your body will adapt to
| the schedule. It will consume your energy over the course of
| time as opposed to immediately which will halt your weight
| loss.
|
| I speak of this as someone who essentially did intermittent
| fasting unintentionally. I would skip breakfast and not consume
| anything besides coffee until 12:00. My last meal would be
| before 20:00. So essentially I'd go 16 hours without eating. I
| couldn't lose weight because after I got done exercising, I
| gorged. I replenished every calorie I burnt off on top of the
| residual I also could consume for the day. My stomach expanded
| to be able to hold the large amount of food intake too. Once I
| ate smaller portions over the course of the day, not only did
| my caloric intake shrink (because I helped shrink my stomach
| back down to size before feeling full), but I couldn't eat as
| much. So I felt "gorged" on 400-600 calories.
|
| Don't listen to that "2000 calorie" rule. That is for people
| who exercise significantly or have physical labor jobs. When
| that number was created, it was assumed people worked
| physically. If you have a sedentary job, you do not need more
| than 1200 calories a day and can very easily get your nutrients
| with just that alone. If you exercise, it gives you an
| additional reason to eat more and more opportunities to
| replenish said nutrients.
| malux85 wrote:
| It's not rude I don't mind, I started at about 115kg, and I'm
| about 105 now, in about a month.
|
| I will also add a wee disclaimer: I'm also exercising a lot
| too, I walk 7km every second day, so no doubt that's
| contributing.
|
| I'm happy with the weight loss, but really the mental clarity
| that comes with IF has made me a much better programmer, I'm
| 36 now, and I feel like I have the energy and mental clarity
| like I was 18 again. Even if IF didn't give me the weight
| loss, I would do it for the mental clarity alone.
|
| Yeah I totally get that IF isn't for everyone, I have been
| overweight my entire life, since very early childhood and I
| tried many different things, the smaller meals, cutting out
| carbs, vegan, no sugar, and they all worked to some degree,
| but the weight and bad habits always came back.
|
| IF has been so positive for me, I just thought I'd share my
| story for others who may want to try it,
|
| It sounds like you eventually settled on a method that works
| for you, so that's great! Human bodies and society is so
| complex, I have no doubt different methods will work for
| different people...
| neetle wrote:
| > If you have a sedentary job, you do not need more than 1200
| calories a day and can very easily get your nutrients with
| just that alone.
|
| That's not really close to true, at all. As someone standing
| at 180cm, my basal metabolic rate is about ~1,300
| calories[0]. That's assuming I weighed 40kg. A healthy weight
| for me would be considered to be between 60kg and 80kg, which
| would put my basal metabolic rate at 1,600-1,800kcal.
|
| Not everyone can be 5'3".
|
| [0]: according to the revised Harris-Benedict
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| I am 173cm (5'8.5"), 65kg. I also run three 8km's and two
| 5km's a week with a 4:20-5:00/km pace. I do this on at or
| about 1200-1500 calories. And I still have fat. I am not a
| flat bellied skinny person either.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| Totally agreed. You basically digest food better this way,
| and use the most of your food, good advices (eating when you
| feel like it, and only how much you need)
|
| People will often turn to a lot of physical exercises when
| they want to lose weight, but the important part is your food
| consumption, minimal exercise is of course still a good idea
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Don't listen to that "2000 calorie" rule. That is for
| people who exercise significantly or have physical labor
| jobs.
|
| No, its pretty much what a young adult male of median height
| [0] and ideal weight for height [1] and sedentary, not
| active, lifestyle needs [2].
|
| [0] 5'9"; https://www.healthline.com/health/average-height-
| for-men#:~:....
|
| [1] 145 lbs is the center of the normal range for 5'9";
| https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323446#body-
| mass-i...
|
| [2] https://www.calculator.net/bmr-
| calculator.html?ctype=standar...
| hnrodey wrote:
| What are you eating during your four hour feeding window?
| [deleted]
| malux85 wrote:
| Vegetables, steak and fish. I try to avoid carbs
| matwood wrote:
| I'm not a no carb person. I've tried no carb and it's just
| too hard to get the energy I need for my activity levels (I
| know it can be done, but I also like to do things I can
| maintain for years). But, I do think about my carbs. Meals
| consist of cooked veggies (my trinity is peppers, onions,
| mushrooms) or standard salad. Then some type of protein like
| fish or chicken. Carbs I'll add if I think I need them that
| day. Rice or I'll cut up potatoes and saute or oven roast
| with rosemary and a little OO. I'll also graze on something
| like hummus and raw veggies and mix in some pretzels.
|
| I avoid sweets though.
| hnrodey wrote:
| fwiw I've had better success with low carb diets and energy
| for workouts when in full blown ketosis (as measured by
| blood meter). Otherwise, you're kind of in energy purgatory
| if you simply go low carb.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| low carb is a good idea for people more sedentary (who
| commute with a car), in my case I ride a bike almost
| every day, so I really need glucose/fructose and carb
| matwood wrote:
| IF is great. I've been doing the 8 hour window (basically skip
| breakfast) for years. When I started I was also an eat as soon
| as I get up person. It took about a week to get past that
| feeling (headaches, agitation, etc...). Now, I don't ever
| really get hungry. I get up, work out, train BJJ, work, etc...
| all before lunch and have plenty of energy and clarity.
|
| I leaned up which was fine, but I've had to add some grazing in
| to stay at my goal weight.
| vericiab wrote:
| I don't tend to experience hunger and, as a result, interrupting
| my activities to eat multiple times per day can feel like a bit
| of an inconvenience. So I've frequently fasted daily since before
| "intermittent fasting" entered the common lexicon. It's not
| really intentional though, I will quite literally forget to eat
| or otherwise just don't make it a priority.
|
| In my experience, I'm not sure it's quite the panacea it's
| sometimes made out to be. Perhaps there are psychological
| benefits to intentionally fasting that I'm missing out on. In any
| case, quite often when I'm wondering why I feel like shit I end
| up realizing something like I haven't eaten in 24 hours or in the
| last 48 hours I've eaten less than 1000 calories. Oops. I'm
| trying to be better about regularly eating 2 meals per day
| because I really do feel better if I've been eating consistently.
|
| I'm not sure it's doing my blood pressure any favors either.
| Despite regular fasting and having a BMI of 18.1 (technically
| slightly underweight, as the lower bound of a "healthy" BMI is
| 18.5), my blood pressure is usually around 140/95. But who knows,
| maybe it would be higher without the fasting.
| dlp211 wrote:
| Intermittent fasting is not the same thing as malnutrition or
| fasting in excess. Continually not eating for 24-48 hours
| and/or depriving yourself of necessary calories isn't good for
| anyone.
| foobiekr wrote:
| The gut biome must be at least strongly influenced by the
| environment you create - change should be assumed as soon as you
| change that environment.
|
| But does the change mean anything?
|
| I think this is going to turn out to be an incomprehensible
| problem that we will never really get a handle on due to the time
| it would take to even begin to understand things. We just aren't
| able to run those experiments and this is the general domain
| where science for us fails and degenerates to just-so stories and
| observational correlations "studies."
|
| To illustrate...
|
| Last year I did 5 months of OMAD to lose weight. I'd gained a
| bunch in the first few months of lockdown. It wasn't hard but it
| wasn't easy especially because my wife, who is effortlessly
| slender and eats a ton, needs to eat a big breakfast every day.
|
| I often wonder if a gut biome transplant from her would give me
| that - I'd love to see someone actually do that experiment.
|
| But not on me.
|
| Her and her brother can literally eat bags of iced mothers
| cookies per week and stay slender - her GP says she needs to gain
| weight. It just isn't going to happen. It took me awhile to
| understand what's going on but my observation is they get really
| warm and fidgety for the hours after overeating and just burn it
| off sitting there. Her whole family is pretty lazy, they don't
| exercise recreationally. They aren't running it off or whatever.
|
| Whereas my chronically overweight family lives ends up with
| moderately high boood pressure, they also all live long lives
| mostly free of debilitating illness until the end. Her family, on
| the other hand, has all manner of terrible issues once they hit
| their 70s...
|
| Obviously this could just be "genetics" but whose? Their nuclear
| genetics or their inhabitants? And do the long terms come out of
| that?
|
| I honestly don't think we will ever know without experiments. And
| given things like the above I wonder if they can be even done,
| even if you decided to ignore the potential long term...
| beckingz wrote:
| OMAD = One Meal A Day
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| > I often wonder if a gut biome transplant from her would give
| me that
|
| Our urine is charged with more or less of our gut biome, and
| enzymes, not only toxins. so maybe.. drinking it (some people
| do, at least it's not dangerous)
|
| You could consider switching diet to reshape your gut biome.
| Some people advise no-sugar diet, but in my case, I switched to
| a monkey diet, a lot of fruits, and lost a bit of weight (I
| used to be more 65-70kg for 1m83, now at 58kg) and gained
| energy, vitality, immunity (never ill), overall health, I can
| eat only fruits during some days or weeks. When there are less
| fruits I'd eat rice, lentils, honey, more rarely fish. So maybe
| try to switch your diet, find the one that works the best for
| you
| winrid wrote:
| Makes me wonder if having a higher metabolism somehow "wears
| out your body faster".
|
| My wife and I are the opposite. I can eat a cheeseburger every
| night and stay slender + low chloresterol etc. I do OMAD twice
| a week, which probably helps a little. It doesn't feel natural
| to always say three meals a day.
| dkdk8283 wrote:
| I recall a paper (I can't locate it) associating high levels
| of metabolic activity with disease.
|
| For example if you have an incredibly physical job and put
| away 8000 calories daily but maintain a low BMI you suffer
| more cell damage. Similar for users of stimulant narcotics
| (legal or illegal).
|
| Perhaps a reader here is familiar with this study.
| foobiekr wrote:
| I actually feel great doing OMAD as long as I eat by 3pm.
| That works great for me and I guess I should have mentioned
| that to tie up the fasting part of that post. I lose about
| 2lbs a week as long as I'm doing it, more if I stop lifting
| (which is exactly why I keep lifting while doing that).
|
| It's just challenging in the context of real life. A friend
| wants to grab lunch, a friend wants to have dinner, my spouse
| the Cookie Monster is busy polishing off three eclairs next
| to me while I'm having my morning black coffee.
| reedjosh wrote:
| There's a theory that the difference you're seeing is insulin
| tolerance.
|
| In your case, you're fat cells listen to the insulin and you
| gain weight.
|
| In your wife's case, her blood sugar probably runs higher as
| her fat cells aren't taking the excess.
|
| Getting fat acts as a sort of protection. You may be
| overweight, but healthier than a thin person eating junk.
| foobiekr wrote:
| Totally, I accept this is true, but it's possible imho that
| gut biome influences this.
|
| There's also the fat distribution question. I often wonder
| about differences in visceral fat.
| reedjosh wrote:
| Yeah, it's definitely possible too. Could be that it
| affects digestive glycemic index.
| Seich wrote:
| Do you have a source you can share for that? I'd love to read
| up on it. A cursory google search didn't reveal much.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-07-17 23:01 UTC)