[HN Gopher] To help gamers on Twitch, Dr. K balances mental heal...
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To help gamers on Twitch, Dr. K balances mental health advice and
medical ethics
Author : lawrenceyan
Score : 129 points
Date : 2021-07-16 16:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
| lazyloop wrote:
| Dr. K killed Reckful by not getting him the help he needed.
| 3520 wrote:
| What an embarrassing take
| EasyTiger_ wrote:
| Utter nonsense
| lazyloop wrote:
| Turning a mental health emergency into a public spectacle for
| entertainment is so utterly American and corrupt. It sickens
| me. There is nothing heartwarming about profiting from the
| misery of others.
| infogulch wrote:
| Dr K is great. His community uses the phrase "AoE healing", fun
| video game references like that are pretty common and seem to
| connect to the audience.
|
| I'm not sure that the fear mongering over whether his interview
| streams are therapy or not is useful. I can see why licensed
| professionals might be wary of new techniques, but requiring that
| everyone get 1-1 therapy doesn't seem to be scalable enough to
| meet modern needs; and maybe an preview of what therapy can be
| like is enough to get some to go.
| Flocular wrote:
| He replied to that personally, let me try to repeat his
| argument (I cant find a link). He argued that giving advice to
| other people is completly accepted if the advice doesn't come
| from a mental health professional. (You'll find plenty youtube
| videos on how to "overcome procrastination") However having the
| better understanding of the mind that a professional has can't
| lead to worse advice, so he too should be accepted giving it.
| Whether there is an inherent danger of talking to an
| psychiatrist in this interview format for the interviewee I
| don't know, but given the amount of disclaimers he's putting
| out there it seems save to me.
| benatkin wrote:
| > having the better understanding of the mind that a
| professional has can't lead to worse advice, so he too should
| be accepted giving it
|
| That seems simplistic. If people know he's a Dr, and they do,
| they might treat the advice differently.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with a professional giving advice. The
| danger is in a professional giving advice and not accepting
| the liability for malpractice harms that comes with their
| professional license.
| benatkin wrote:
| According to the article, he told a guy his life was empty (in
| an attempt to help him, of course) and the guy later died by
| suicide. It could have been completely unrelated, but I don't
| think it's just fear mongering.
|
| That said, I didn't like the article much, and only want to
| stand up for the other people who were quoted in the article.
| gurchik wrote:
| I had never thought people might blame Dr. K for his death
| until I read the article. The man attempted suicide in the
| past before ever talking to Dr. K, his friends and family
| said he was constantly at risk of going through with it again
| despite going to multiple therapists, and after speaking with
| Dr. K he said the conversation was helpful to him. Blaming
| Dr. K for one conversation with him half a year before he was
| finally successful with the suicide feels to me like blaming
| a doctor for being unable to save someone with a chronic
| condition after seeing them once in the ER.
| benatkin wrote:
| I'm not doing that. There are too many factors going into
| whether someone survives having severe mental health
| problems or not. But I am saying it's not fear mongering to
| take a look and see whether this is causing people not to
| get the help they need, by providing some lower hanging
| fruit that seems like it might be just as good. You might
| be doing some mongering of your own by suggesting that I'm
| blaming Dr. K.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Please don't attack other commenters or put words in
| their mouth. Parent didn't suggest _you_ blame Dr K.
| [deleted]
| gurchik wrote:
| Sorry, when I wrote my comment I didn't realize you might
| think I was implying you feel that way. That wasn't my
| intention. I was trying to call out a perspective in the
| article that I hadn't considered before (but that I
| ultimately disagree with for the reasons I stated).
| benatkin wrote:
| No problem. I borderline was, I guess. Sorry for
| suggesting you were mongering, I added "might" but it was
| still not very nice.
|
| I thought some more and don't think Dr. K can be blamed
| at all because Byron felt he had already tried a lot of
| what conventional medicine provides, so he was very open
| to Dr. K making any attempt to help him. Maybe it did
| help him some. I worry that Dr. K might get in the way of
| someone seeking professional help but I don't think it
| happened here.
| benatkin wrote:
| I think the article should say "died by suicide" instead of "took
| his own life".
| mod wrote:
| Those are equivalent. What is the difference from your
| perspective?
| lawtalkinghuman wrote:
| Even if logically two statements are the same, the
| implication or tone can be important. There are media
| reporting guidelines on suicide e.g. the Samaritans in the UK
| provide one, as do the WHO and CDC.
|
| https://media.samaritans.org/documents/Media_Guidelines_FINA.
| ..
|
| https://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/resourc.
| ..
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
|
| Though the Samaritans one lists "took their own life" as
| actually being okay and warns against phrases like "committed
| suicide".
| benatkin wrote:
| I think "took their own life" makes it sound more deliberate.
| I think it varies how deliberate it is. "Died by suicide"
| doesn't add anything to the word suicide except for pointing
| out that the person died. This lets people more easily update
| their understanding of suicide.
|
| I'd prefer "died by their own hand" to "took their own life"
| but some might get hung up on the word hand. "Died by
| suicide" is my preferred phrase, though.
| reedf1 wrote:
| Definitely the sort of psychiatrist the modern-era needs. I
| appreciate the treatment of the underlying emotions separated
| from the technology. You will experience envy with or without
| social media, it seems naive succumbing to the oft repeated
| advice, "just delete it".
| xyst wrote:
| I used to watch Twitch a lot during the pandemic to get a preview
| of game content. But as of 4-5 months ago, my interest for this
| platform has waned. It just became this "clout chasing" monster
| to me, and really turned me off from the platform.
|
| On the surface, Dr. K's channel is a good way to talk about
| mental health. But I feel like most people would just take
| advantage of his audience and try to make up situations to get
| sympathy and thus lead to follows, subscriptions, and/or direct
| donations.
| theklub wrote:
| Twitch has become 50% soft-core porn, I'm actually surprised
| what they've allowed it to become.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Yeah. It's turning into Instagram and tiktok, etc.
|
| There's certainly interesting stuff here and there. But more
| and more of it is just vapid, contemptible people with nothing
| to contribute to society looking for attention and money by
| catering directly to the attractors that work best on humans.
| Firebrand wrote:
| Hasn't Twitch always been that way? It's been my impression
| that streamers are a bit more nuttier compared to the average
| Instagram influencer or TikToker since most of them have to
| grind videogames while talking to their computer for 12 hours
| each day before being gaining enough of a following to set
| their own schedule.
| watwut wrote:
| You say, twitch is what it always was and why it gained
| popularity?
|
| I am not even saying it is bad. Entertainment is something
| people want and need. But, it was literally that all the
| time.
| benatkin wrote:
| The moderators and bots tend to game up the stream for people
| who are following the chat, even when the host is being
| genuine.
| _huayra_ wrote:
| I'm really looking forward to his forthcoming healthy guide on
| mental health [0]. After really struggling with very tepid
| therapy experiences and trying to read myriad books to "fix
| myself", the content he's already produced and the sneak peeks of
| his guide really seem like this will finally click.
|
| [0] https://coaching.healthygamer.gg/guide
| void_mint wrote:
| Dr K is a treasure. A legit great person. A really great
| influence on the twitch community, which is normally mostly a
| cesspool.
| daenz wrote:
| >Mini's talking to Kanojia -- Dr. K, as he's known to his fans --
| about how she's suffered depression, low self-esteem, and panic
| attacks all her life. The thousands of people watching this on
| the live streaming platform Twitch offer a steady flow of heart
| emojis and condolences in the chat box.
|
| It has been my experience that it's safer for women to open up
| about mental health challenges than it is for men. Online at
| least, it seems that men are treated pretty poorly when they
| begin to open up about issues like these. Mental health issues
| affect everyone, but I wish we could try to be equally receptive
| to people regardless of their identity, especially since it is
| young men who tend to lash out in very violent ways when mental
| health issues go unchecked.
| noobermin wrote:
| It depends on the circle but some circles are more open to it
| for men as well.
| thinkingemote wrote:
| Entertainment and ethics are a bit of mine field.
|
| I've watched Dr K and his discussions. They are a kind of
| positive cold reading - allowing the other to do the talking and
| join the dots with subtle suggestions. Similarly with the
| audience, many people benefit.
|
| It's primarily entertainment though, we shouldn't fall into the
| trap of thinking we are privileged to a private therapy session
| but see it as a kind of wholesome entertainment.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| why "entertainment" and not "education"?
| paulcarroty wrote:
| > "The more overwhelmed I'd feel the more I'd play video games.
| And the more I'd play video games the more overwhelmed I'd feel.
| And it turned into a vicious cycle," he said.
|
| Well, it's obviously time to stop (playing). Better fight your
| problems in real world.
| stevewodil wrote:
| Ahh thank you, the ole "Just don't be depressed" tactic
| zmk5 wrote:
| I think he meant "stop playing video games" which is solid
| advice.
| chacham15 wrote:
| What the parent to your comment means is that video games
| is serving a purpose such that you cant just "stop." You
| have to figure out what purpose its serving and find
| another way of achieving that. A better version of what
| they're trying to say is telling an alcoholic to "just stop
| drinking." Yes, if they can do that it would be good
| advice, but the problem is that they cant stop. So,
| ultimately that advice doesn't lead to results.
| zmk5 wrote:
| I wasn't meaning to stop cold turkey, there is a whole
| process to quitting addiction. Sometimes people need to
| be pointed at what is causing the issue and then help on
| how to get out of it.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Someone using the term "vicious cycle" doesn't need help
| naming the problem. They need strategies and tactics.
| watwut wrote:
| Many people claim that there is no such thing as too much
| gaming or gaming addiction or gaming issue.
|
| And a lot of those people are on HN.
| zmk5 wrote:
| I don't know this persons case but some of the people I
| knew really needed the problem stated for them to truly
| acknowledge it. My close friend had a video game
| addiction and refused to see it as a problem.
| fnord77 wrote:
| which is basically Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in a nutshell
| stevewodil wrote:
| Great to see Dr. K getting the recognition he deserves. Love his
| content
| AnEro wrote:
| I've been to therapy and always haven't had a lot of successful
| results. Mostly since I didn't have the clinical versions of what
| they normally treat, so it be long-drawn-out deep conversations
| that felt like the fix leaving the office... Then I got home and
| the perspective was basically gone.
|
| Dr.K has been such a breath of fresh air and been so real about
| how some people could use coaching vs a therapy. Where you do
| have an issue, but it isn't clearly on the DSM-5 approach or
| drastic enough to approach it as such.
|
| Following his content has helped me understand my ADHD and
| anxiety so well that I feel like I'm in control for the first
| time. Where his explanations though through corny gamer analogies
| have me the most happy and productive I've ever been.
|
| Where Dr. K's ''solutions'' are just usually more work you have
| to do and how to learn it on your own effectively, it's not a
| quick fix or some philosophy. The solutions are basically: this
| is how your brain most likely works, here's how to plan around it
| in broad strokes, do your best to be consistent to that plan, and
| let neural plasticity will do the rest of the work for you.
| craigkerstiens wrote:
| Not directly the same as the Dr. that engages, and disclaimer I
| do not know this space personally very deeply, but from a lot of
| friends that have streamed a good bit it can be more toxic at
| times than not. Mental health generally in the US is an under
| talked about thing, and there is a lot of stigma around it.
|
| Streaming seems to only make much of the already existing issues
| potentially worse. For twitch or others, they don't take much of
| an active role in ensuring creators are taking care of from that
| perspective. For mental health to be a priority it seems like
| that piece needs to be separate from the business of stream as
| much as you can or your missing out on $$$.
|
| While it's early https://altair.tv/ is one that jumps out at me
| as an early but interesting take.
|
| Well, my pitch is basically that as long as the platform doesn't
| take an active role in making sure that their creators are taken
| care of, mental health advice can go so far. Streaming itself
| needs to be more mentally healthy, and for it to be that, it
| needs to be separated from the business model.
| jmcgough wrote:
| Dr. K is awesome - he makes a lot of mental health discussion
| more approachable and accessible. He's super smart and really
| into evidence-based approaches. I saw him give a lecture on the
| neuroscience of addiction once that I could only follow because I
| studied neuroscience. I've done a fair amount of therapy and
| still have learned things from his streams - he really has a
| talent for teaching.
|
| I think just reaching young guys who have trouble sharing their
| thoughts, feelings, difficulties with anyone is really huge.
| There are a lot of young male gamers who are struggling and spend
| huge amounts of time gaming because they don't know how to deal
| with mental health problems or even things like social anxiety or
| low self-esteem. And he's encouraging people to take care of
| themselves and find / work with mental health professionals.
| abledon wrote:
| I can't wait for the guide w/ the FF style tech tree where you
| learn about diff branches of psychology. Really Hope they turn
| it into a game on Steam. Teens are going to download it and be
| much more engaged with their mental health
| kmnc wrote:
| Dr K is the type of thing we need more of when people say things
| like "we need to support mental health more". I don't even think
| his content is particularly good or helpful yet his fostering of
| a community and overall message of normalizing taking care of
| your mental health is praise worthy.
|
| Twitch is a weird place, the parasocial dynamic has become so
| mixed with the gamification of twitch via subscribers. It is kind
| of gross and I agree with the other poster here, it eventually
| turns you off. I really wish things like sub counters and goals
| would be banned. Yet, twitch is run by complete morons, seriously
| the worst run platform I have ever seen. It has become super
| corporate, partnering with shady companies like cashapp,
| promoting garbage content like slots and soft core cam girls who
| use it as an advertising platform for their onlyfans. Meanwhile
| the "good content" is just an in group of content leeches who got
| lucky.
|
| Dr K proves how much power a streamer has over fostering a
| positive community. The community is a reflection of the streamer
| regardless of how much effort they put into building it. Many
| streamers ignore this and complain their community is toxic. It
| is a shame twitch doesn't give a shit about the community it is
| building anymore.
| bogwog wrote:
| > Yet, twitch is run by complete morons, seriously the worst
| run platform I have ever seen.
|
| That seems to be a pattern with Amazon companies...
| throwawway55 wrote:
| It's so cool to see youtube not used for evil or dumb stuff.
|
| (not DrK) Ex. This is _amazing_ social anxiety course that uses
| CBT & various exercises + worksheets
|
| > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6k6SOtPGqA > worksheets:
| https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Fa61yQHoOkU8F5Zc2Sg1...
|
| I found DrK's discussions quite by accident and I was shocked at
| how often he's able to tease out an insight that cuts deep.
|
| This might not apply to on HN, but if you're part of a subgroup
| where you feel like you suck/incompetent/no-good/etc just listen
| to some of these interviews and you'll likely learn something or
| at least open up
|
| Here's an instructive example-- young man from intensely-
| competitive Singapore slipping behind and comparing himself to
| his super successful friends.
|
| Singapore, helping people: https://youtu.be/Xxb-HovgjjM?t=883
|
| Throwaway line @ 27:00 ("I don't think you are your friend.
| You're not one of them. I think the harder you try to be them,
| the more you will miss out on who you are"):
| https://youtu.be/Xxb-HovgjjM?t=1620
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(page generated 2021-07-17 23:01 UTC)