[HN Gopher] State Department to pay up to $10M for information o...
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       State Department to pay up to $10M for information on foreign
       cyberattacks
        
       Author : WaitWaitWha
       Score  : 114 points
       Date   : 2021-07-16 15:36 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.darkreading.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.darkreading.com)
        
       | werljlekrjert wrote:
       | How do I pronounce
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       | N
       | 
       | Fuck, I'll take a baseball to the Ukraine and get it done on the
       | cheap.
        
       | artursapek wrote:
       | They should ask their buddies over at the CIA ;^D
        
         | igorzx31 wrote:
         | The CIA doesn't monitor cyber, that would be the NSA and US
         | Cyber Command
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | How about kidnapping them. Sorta like the bin laden raid. I don't
       | think putin would do much or care.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | asquabventured wrote:
         | I think that's a really, really bad idea if they're on Russian
         | territory. Would create a precedent for the Russians (and other
         | adversaries) to do the same to US citizens.
        
           | EveYoung wrote:
           | I agree that it probably would be a bad idea. That said,
           | Russia executes state enemies on foreign territories already.
           | And Vietnam kidnapped an asylum-seeker in Berlin in 2018.
           | Another example, are the recent kidnapping allegations
           | against Iran (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-
           | us-attorney-a...).
        
       | tareqak wrote:
       | Same story from a different source (the Associated Press):
       | https://apnews.com/article/technology-joe-biden-europe-busin...
        
       | flowerlad wrote:
       | The government should offer a similar reward for information on
       | US corporations who run critical infrastructure, or hoard
       | personal information on US citizens, and don't maintain proper
       | security.
        
         | ixacto wrote:
         | So basically all the credit rating agencies and the government
         | itself? Or does the OPM get sovereign immunity?
         | https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-opm-hack-far-worse-you-imagi...
        
         | cgb223 wrote:
         | A government bug bounty program would be a huge step forward to
         | our defense.
         | 
         | Could even encourage would be hackers to go white hat
        
           | flowerlad wrote:
           | The payout should come from the company that has the
           | vulnerability, not US taxpayers. So basically there needs to
           | be a law that states that if you run critical infrastructure,
           | or hoard personal information on US citizens then you are
           | required to set aside X dollars to pay white hat hackers who
           | find vulnerabilities.
        
             | sircastor wrote:
             | That might have the added benefit of incentivizing better
             | security practices overall.
        
       | devwastaken wrote:
       | Why exactly do we have internet lines to enemy countries that
       | were at war with by proxy? We can block their routing with the
       | flick of a switch. The harm done by countries were at war with
       | far outweighs the benefits.
        
         | l33t2328 wrote:
         | We are by no means at war with Russia.
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | Does it really outweigh the benefits? It automatically
         | splinters the internet into regional little nets. All those
         | things that are currently possible, because internet exists in
         | its current form cease to work.
         | 
         | And what countries are we at war with? Please be specific. This
         | is not a trick question.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" Russia's most aggressive ransomware group disappeared. It's
       | unclear who made that happen."_ - NYT.[1]
       | 
       | Somehow, the problem seems to have been dealt with.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/us/politics/russia-
       | hackin...
        
       | salimmadjd wrote:
       | From the AP version (h/t @tareqak) [0], "identification of anyone
       | engaged in foreign state-sanctioned malicious cyber activity".
       | Key phrase, _state-sanctioned_.
       | 
       | This has less to do with tracking down cybercriminals, and more
       | with creating a case for foreign policy agenda.
       | 
       | Remember it was WMD informant "Curveball" testimony to then
       | Secretary of State Powell, that was used as one of the key
       | pretexts to invade Iraq.
       | 
       | Essentially if an administration comes with an agenda to start a
       | new war, they put the right people inside the State Department
       | and then those guys just need to comb for anything (validated or
       | not) to find "informants" to make the case for cyber attack.
       | Followed by making the case in media that cyber attack is
       | military attack and it requires military retaliation.
       | 
       | This will bypass the entire US intelligence system to validate
       | the source of threat. It just needs one person to claim they were
       | involve in cyber attack against US and it was sponsored by the
       | government of Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, or any other country we want
       | to go after.
       | 
       | I highly recommend watching this portion of the town hall with
       | former US Congressman Dennis Kucinich talking about how non
       | disclosure rules prevented the Congress from speaking out against
       | US State Department spreading false information to American
       | public [1].
       | 
       | [0] https://apnews.com/article/technology-joe-biden-europe-
       | busin...
       | 
       | [1] https://youtu.be/s-W9b-_K_Xo?t=2433
        
         | jonnybgood wrote:
         | > Essentially if an administration comes with an agenda to
         | start a new war, they put the right people inside the State
         | Department and then those guys just need to comb for anything
         | (validated or not) to find "informants" to make the case for
         | cyber attack. Followed by making the case in media that cyber
         | attack is military attack and it requires military retaliation.
         | This will bypass the entire US intelligence system to validate
         | the source of threat. It just needs one person to claim they
         | were involve in cyber attack against US and it was sponsored by
         | the government of Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, or any other country
         | we want to go after.
         | 
         | That's a very oversimplified odd narrative. Unlike Iraq and
         | mysterious nuclear related material objects, cyber attacks are
         | happening. And it's quite evident US is lacking in this area.
         | The US doesn't need "one person" when there are clear
         | signatures and traces that are substantiated not only by the US
         | intelligence system but also by non-government entities.
        
           | nyokodo wrote:
           | > The US doesn't need "one person" when there are clear
           | signatures and traces
           | 
           | How clear are they really? How hard is it to pin an attack on
           | another group or country?
        
       | jnosCo wrote:
       | I think this could be a very effective countermeasure. It reduces
       | trust between members of a crew, and between crews themselves. If
       | you're constantly suspicious of Ivan the mail campaign guy
       | ratting you out for a payday, it makes the whole business focus
       | more on opsec and less on offense. Though sole operators can do
       | plenty of damage on their own, they probably are less likely to
       | be state-backed.
        
         | trhway wrote:
         | Does it come with Green Card for Ivan?
         | 
         | >it makes the whole business focus more on opsec
         | 
         | and that is bad?
        
           | neatze wrote:
           | You need only to invest 500K (that passes AML) in US to get a
           | green card.
        
             | anter wrote:
             | No longer the case. EB5 requires $1,800,000 that can be
             | reduced to $900,000 if it's in the Targeted Employment
             | Area.
        
             | trhway wrote:
             | with known criminal background? That is my point - without
             | State Department waiving such requirement and issuing
             | GC/witness protection the Ivan would be easy reachable for
             | FSB in any other country.
        
           | lisper wrote:
           | With $10M in the bank there are surely many countries that
           | would welcome him with open arms.
        
       | DaniloDias wrote:
       | Wow. Wonder what Alan Einstein is advising the leadership on the
       | effectiveness of this approach. You should work hard to minimize
       | all of your taxes if this is how they are going to waste it.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Oh I got this: A bunch of US IT Firms left the front doors
       | unlocked and got mad when someone walked in and took their stuff.
       | 
       | Now that I've root caused it, I prefer next-day ACH if possible.
       | PM for my bank details, thank you!
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | But wouldn't the methods needed to obtain that information
       | generally carry a high risk of prosecution for illegal acts? I
       | dont even want to go into specific chat rooms or browse the dark
       | web for fear of being swept up in some overzealous prosecutor's
       | net. Even if your innocent it can cost thousands of dollars and
       | years of your life to prove it.
        
         | 3pt14159 wrote:
         | You'd think that, but no, not really. If you talk to a lawyer
         | first and he registers what you're doing with the police first
         | and you don't actually break the law, you'll be fine. Lots of
         | bounty hunters and private investigators are in the same game.
         | Going to the police saying "I want to earn this $10m reward by
         | finding those horrid blokes and here is why I'm qualified"
         | isn't going to completely blow their mind.
         | 
         | But it could get you hacked or worse.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Most states require bounty hunters and private investigators
           | to have a license.
           | 
           | Usually notifyingthe police is something they would do for
           | physical situations. It could get tricky on the internet when
           | dealing with jurisdiction. You would likely have to file
           | something with the local police, state police, and DOJ/FBI/?.
           | Honestly, the level of competence is not stellar. You could
           | still be searched/raided/arrested and inconvenienced for days
           | to years. Just look at how long Crosby was in prison with an
           | all-star level legal team and protective agreement with the
           | DA...
        
         | nubb wrote:
         | Totally agree. Some shitty prosecutor will 1000% make some
         | Americans life miserable just to add a conviction to their
         | belt. The risk is probably not worth the reward.
        
       | eloff wrote:
       | Here's a crazy idea of dubious ethical value:
       | 
       | The problem with Russian hackers is the law there doesn't give a
       | damn, so they're untouchable.
       | 
       | Why not ignore the law then? Put a price on their heads and use
       | the same Russian criminal elements to take them out. Do that a
       | few times and the problem will magically vanish. Nobody will be
       | willing to work for these gangs.
       | 
       | It also makes the Russian courts have to consider whether they'd
       | rather handle this inside the law or deal with consequences of it
       | happening outside the law.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | beermonster wrote:
         | > The problem with Russian hackers is the law there doesn't
         | give a damn, so they're untouchable.
         | 
         | Is it not the case that no Russian criminal offence has taken
         | place?
         | 
         | Not that I'm saying that's great, but that might be the excuse
         | needed to look the other way whilst carnage ensues ?
        
         | seppin wrote:
         | > The problem with Russian hackers is the law there doesn't
         | give a damn, so they're untouchable.
         | 
         | Not if they get sick of Sochi and decide to holiday in Thailand
         | one day.
        
         | Applejinx wrote:
         | In a sense that's what this is. It's sort of going, Russian
         | oligarchs are impossibly wealthy and can pay to do anything
         | they like and run their government and are/are like the Russian
         | mob?
         | 
         | Fine. The United States as a country is also impossibly
         | wealthy, Texas alone is worth more than the country of Russia
         | GDP-wise. Therefore, go on with your oligarch selves and you
         | can just compete with the State Department, bribe against
         | bribe, payoff against payoff. Have fun.
         | 
         | Seems clever and practical to me. If you're up against folks
         | who can put a price on anything, outbid 'em and you're fighting
         | with their weapons on their terms.
        
         | runnerup wrote:
         | This would normalize extraterritorial direct action on both
         | sides. Yes, Russia assassinates people in the UK with nerve
         | agents. But if the USA follows the suggestion you proposed
         | above, Russia will respond with regular direct action on
         | American soil to target people they're interested in.
         | 
         | Plus the USA has enough control over global financial systems
         | and extraditions from third party countries that the US
         | government can make life difficult for individuals if they ever
         | want to travel outside of Russia, spend/store money outside of
         | Russia, or buy things directly from companies that are outside
         | of Russia.
         | 
         | USA can do these things without inviting potential
         | assassinations within its borders.
        
           | foolinaround wrote:
           | I am guessing the US does this as well, but is just not
           | reported?
        
             | nuclearnice1 wrote:
             | Given the lack of reporting, what information informs the
             | guess?
        
           | Applejinx wrote:
           | Russia responding with direct action on American soil will
           | play very poorly. I'm not convinced that, politically, they
           | can do any such thing. They depend very heavily on motivating
           | genuine Americans to do their direct action for them.
        
         | staticassertion wrote:
         | Or we just get US companies to step up their security. US infra
         | is a ridiculous soft target.
        
         | teawrecks wrote:
         | Ooo solutions that include a magic step are very attractive to
         | me...
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-16 23:01 UTC)