[HN Gopher] Over 10k species risk extinction in Amazon, says lan...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Over 10k species risk extinction in Amazon, says landmark report
        
       Author : uptown
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2021-07-14 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | ProAm wrote:
       | This could really be either Amazon
        
       | aboringusername wrote:
       | It's been pretty obvious for a long time there's an overabundance
       | of humans on earth that is simply unsustainable in the long term.
       | WW1 and WW2 along with the Spanish Flu and others relieved the
       | earth of hundreds of millions of humans.
       | 
       | Covid didn't have much of the same affect as we exerted our
       | dominance over nature - there's absolutely nothing that can
       | eradicate the plague of humans we have today (aside from other
       | humans, it seems)
       | 
       | So something's got to give, and whether for good or worse earth
       | is for humans by humans, unless we cull our population
       | significantly that's an uncomfortable but true reality.
       | 
       | I'll be surprised if in a decade or two the "Amazon" will be a
       | thing.
        
       | MattGaiser wrote:
       | I am pretty sure that the only way to halt deforestation and
       | overfishing is to use technology to produce such vast abundance
       | with current resources that those using damaging practices are
       | driven out of the market.
       | 
       | There just isn't political will for anything else.
       | 
       | People will mock the "yet another startup" attitude in this, but
       | is anything successfully moving the needle except products that
       | outcompete worse products (Tesla vs internal combustion)?
        
         | whatshisface wrote:
         | I think where you'll run into trouble is approaching the
         | problem of inventing a new building material/foodsource from
         | the 100,000-foot level of abstraction that is "use technology."
        
           | MattGaiser wrote:
           | I was more thinking of applying Walmart/Amazon's mindless
           | obsession with optimization to production to price out
           | everyone else.
           | 
           | This had more to do with fish, but one of the documentaries I
           | watched had these small scale fishers fishing with dynamite.
           | I want to get to the point where fish farms are so efficient
           | that the fisher can't get back his gas money.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | If the plan is to apply "optimization" to fish farming,
             | that's not a lot more specific than applying "technology"
             | to fish farming.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | This has long been Michael Shellenberger's viewpoint--
         | basically that conventional "green" advocacy/politics is mostly
         | about erecting arbitrary barriers and preventing people from
         | doing or having the things they want.
         | 
         | Which is all well and good when it's a rich country setting
         | aside slivers of land as national parks for the common good,
         | but it's pretty unfair when it's rich nations telling the BRIC
         | what they can and can't do with the same kinds of natural
         | resources that the now-rich countries happily strip mined from
         | themselves and have plundered from elsewhere for the past
         | century or longer.
         | 
         | Anyway, I don't agree with all of it (particularly his total
         | dismissal of wind and solar), but a lot does ring true,
         | especially when basically the end conclusion is that the route
         | to saving the planet is to get everyone as rich as possible as
         | fast as possible, because that's how to get them to care. And
         | the route to that is cheap energy, and that means nuclear-- not
         | vapourware tomorrow-nuclear (thorium, fusion, whatever), but
         | today's nuclear technology, en masse.
         | 
         | He's given a few TED Talks on this, worth a listen.
        
         | sjtindell wrote:
         | The problem of political will seems to me to be one of money.
         | Many if not most governments are already funded substantially
         | via debt. The massive outlays required to make a real
         | difference will be nigh on impossible to obtain unless the
         | average voter starts to see tangible, daily consequences. And
         | then the economic consequences of so much money creation would
         | be hard to manage. Ironically, the system itself is threatened
         | by collapse, so trying to operate within the system to get the
         | problem solved seems like folly...if you could get everyone to
         | agree, perhaps we could simply wipe the "debt" away somehow.
         | Find some other way to "pay for it". But our financial
         | constructs are so fundamental to daily life, it's hard to
         | imagine what that would look like.
        
           | aaron-santos wrote:
           | > But our financial constructs are so fundamental to daily
           | life, it's hard to imagine what that would look like.
           | 
           | We have politicians asking if we can change the orbit of the
           | moon because changing the system which is creating these
           | problems somehow seems more impossible. I cannot fathom how a
           | system created by humans cannot be changed by humans, but
           | here we are.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | The problem is that if you can produce this vast abundance in
         | the US, you might be able to produce it cheaper by moving your
         | operation to a previously undeveloped part of the Amazon
         | rainforest - where land values are and taxes are lower. And the
         | market always demands more growth. No level of efficiency will
         | ever be "enough".
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-14 23:02 UTC)