[HN Gopher] Sega sued for 'rigged' arcade machine
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Sega sued for 'rigged' arcade machine
Author : danso
Score : 45 points
Date : 2021-07-14 05:08 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.polygon.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.polygon.com)
| Something1234 wrote:
| State gaming boards really need to investigate arcades in
| general. They are much worse than the casino with the same kinds
| of games, but a much worse payout. I once calculated it out when
| I was on a bus trip I would get back 70% of what I put in
| (n=$100). At the arcade you're lucky to get 5 cents back, and
| most of the time the games are not even fun.
|
| We need to put together a team of experts to audit all of these
| machines.
| koz1000 wrote:
| I worked on a redemption device a long time ago, one of those
| "stop the lights" game for a large manufacturer.
|
| There were a few jurisdictions, Iowa and New Jersey come to
| mind, that were already aware of the nature of these machines
| and required the manufacturers to have their software audited
| and validated by (state approved) third-party gaming labs
| identical to what the slot machine companies do when getting
| code approved for release.
|
| The key point was that the probability of a win couldn't be
| adjusted on the fly to make the target payout percentage (kind
| of what the article says). The probabilities had to be fixed
| for every player on every game. Although the first method is a
| lot easier to write, software-wise. =)
|
| For the rest of the jurisdictions, the default payout was 40%
| and anything was fair game to hit that number. Remember that
| the next time you're in a Chuck E Cheese.
| erdos4d wrote:
| I mean, given the cash-only nature of the business, I'd be very
| surprised if most arcades weren't laundering money these days
| too.
| eli wrote:
| Most arcades I've been to recently use prepaid cards you top
| off with a credit card
| sethammons wrote:
| Reminds me of this one:
|
| https://youtu.be/vXBfwgwT1nQ
|
| Guy builds a robot to time pressing the button to get the light
| to land on the winning sections and demonstrates it is not skill
| but a random number generator.
| tracedddd wrote:
| The stacker game with the moving blocks always frustrated me, I
| spent way too much money trying to win that one and got quite
| good at everything but the last round. I wonder if that one is
| rigged too.
| LaserDiscMan wrote:
| Stacker is definitely rigged:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofEb9fM8m0Q&t=214s
| lupire wrote:
| It certainly is.
| musicale wrote:
| Yeah, the last round of Stacker is rigged/random.
| lupire wrote:
| Good. These covert casino machines are a blight , and all of them
| should be banned and the proprietors prosecuted.
| sunshineforever wrote:
| You know the horribly irony is that wagering machines that are
| 100% skill based are illegal. The only exception, I've seen "The
| Fishing Game" in a texas bar. It's a 2D game where you shoot fish
| in a pool table like screen. Bullets cost money, fish death pays
| out.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Are they illegal or just uncommon because they could be
| abusable? As if they were illegal wouldn't things like rewards
| for a hole in one, or "guess" how many the beans in a jar would
| be illegal?
| musicale wrote:
| IIRC the argument that they use for "rigged" machines like this
| (including most claw machines, Stacker, Key Master, etc.) is that
| it's not technically random. But for all practical purposes it
| _is_ random for the average player who walks up to the machine
| (or worse if non-sucker players are exploiting the machine 's
| algorithm) so such machines really should:
|
| 1) be advertised and regulated as games of chance (e.g. being
| required to disclose the odds of winning, etc.)
|
| 2) be subject to FTC rules about deceptive advertising
| dml2135 wrote:
| I think they are currently subject to FTC rules against
| deceptive advertising -- isn't that the basis of this
| lawsuit?However, FTC rules are only enforced civilly by damaged
| parties, IIRC. I don't think the agency engages in any
| proactive enforcement of false advertising laws. But someone
| please correct me if I'm wrong.
| Cerealkiller050 wrote:
| I remember seeing and playing this on a cruise ship.
|
| It was a dollar per try, and I shoved in 5 bucks. By the 4th try
| it was NOTICEABLE that if you press the button at the "right
| time", there was a lag before it overshot it and you failed. I
| pretty much could guess that something like the article discusses
| was at work, and was simply more a game of luck.
|
| Obviously I stopped after that, as a pure luck game is not as
| fun. If I had known that the default was 700 losses before payout
| as a default, I would have had a nice drink or 3 and counted the
| many people that tried it throughout the day
|
| As a side note, saw one winner at the machine get a wrapped stack
| of 500, 1 dollar bills
| Bluecobra wrote:
| I played this in a cruise casino as well, knowing full well
| that the odds were stacked against me in international waters.
| I didn't win. Near the end of the 10 day voyage the machine was
| mostly empty, I wonder if anyone actually won or they just
| removed the cash to make it look like it's a winner.
| eihli wrote:
| Had an idea when I saw one of these on a cruise ship.
|
| Every time we spent time within eyesight of the machine, I timed
| it and counted how many plays went in. After a couple of days, I
| had something resembling an average number of plays per hour. The
| machine was one where the prizes were visible, so you could tell
| how many had been won.
|
| Now I had a bound on the number of plays per prize.
|
| Estimate number of plays based on amount of time passed. Check if
| prize has been claimed. If not, it's due.
|
| You don't have to be too accurate with your numbers. Just get
| within ~50% to beat the vig.
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