[HN Gopher] AWS Cost Saving Recommendations
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       AWS Cost Saving Recommendations
        
       Author : jeffbarg
       Score  : 91 points
       Date   : 2021-07-13 17:43 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vantage.sh)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vantage.sh)
        
       | StratusBen wrote:
       | :wave:
       | 
       | I'm a Co-Founder at https://vantage.sh/ - thanks for posting
       | this, Jeff!
       | 
       | I think the biggest call out here is that Vantage Cost Saving
       | Recommendations are profiling not only things like AWS Savings
       | Plans and Reserved Instances but we are also directly integrated
       | with AWS Service APIs that allow us to surface higher-fidelity
       | cost-savings measures on a per AWS service or resource basis.
       | Over time, we will be adding to the suite of checks and
       | recommendations.
       | 
       | Also, it's worth calling out that these recommendations are
       | available to all users -- including users in our free tier.
       | 
       | I'm happy to answer any questions if folks have them.
        
         | Thristle wrote:
         | Are these recommendations from the cost & usage report? just
         | normal API queries?
         | 
         | If it is just from normal API (probably list instance/lb), is
         | it really enough in order to create proper recommendations?
         | 
         | do you have an estimate on the cost/usage you are adding for
         | each scale of customer?
        
         | GiorgioG wrote:
         | How did you guys decide on your pricing plans? It seems to me
         | you're missing out on the folks who's spending doesn't vary
         | much per month but want to get their costs optimized. I have a
         | friend who's company is spending ~70k/month on AWS who might be
         | interested in this, but doesn't generally need it on an ongoing
         | basis since their needs are generally fixed.
        
         | dfabulich wrote:
         | Vantage should provide a date saying when exactly the
         | recommendations were computed. This answer from the FAQ kinda
         | sucks.
         | 
         | > _I am a Vantage user but I don 't see any Cost
         | Recommendations. What is happening?_
         | 
         | > _There are two possible things causing this: (1) Vantage has
         | not yet run the process for finding cost recommendations for
         | your account yet and you can check back later (2) your account
         | is well-optimized from an AWS cost perspective and there are no
         | recommendations for you to review._
         | 
         | > _In either case, Vantage will continue to monitor your AWS
         | account for all changes and be sure to surface Cost
         | Recommendations to you as it finds them._
         | 
         | "Maybe we'll provide useful guidance, maybe we won't, but we
         | won't tell you which. Maybe you're perfect. Maybe we never ran
         | an analysis. Maybe we'll run an analysis in the future, maybe
         | not."
        
           | StratusBen wrote:
           | Thanks for your candid feedback - I agree this is something
           | we should do a better job of surfacing. I've added this to
           | our backlog to improve - feel free to email me and I can let
           | you know when the experience improves.
           | 
           | We mention elsewhere in the post that for service and
           | resource level recommendations we do this as often as your
           | Vantage account syncs - which you can initiate at any time
           | from the top navigation bar.
           | 
           | For recommendations like Savings Plans and Reserved Instances
           | we are running this process weekly for now but that may
           | change so we will definitely add a timestamp as to when that
           | occurs.
        
       | boba7 wrote:
       | By not using AWS I have saved thousands. This one simple trick.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | Ah yes you're at the fifth level of AWS cost management
         | consciousness. You may have skipped the first four levels.
         | 
         | First is the simple test case using something random like
         | Lambda and S3 after dragging through the Whizlabs course. This
         | costs you $5 a month.
         | 
         | Second is the migration of something not particularly
         | complicated but a bit meatier which works out cheaper than your
         | capital expenditure coming up so you can write it off without
         | having to fill in a purchase order and argue with accounts
         | again.
         | 
         | Third is the overconfident architectural approach of multi-
         | account, multi-AZ with peering all over the shop as recommended
         | in the best practices, certification and architecture
         | documentation. Approving nods all around on delivering this,
         | despite the operational expenditure being slightly higher than
         | predicted on your hacked up and not totally complete Excel
         | spreadsheet for cost management.
         | 
         | Fourth is the first bill. This immediately points out your
         | inter-VPC, inter-AZ transit and shitty shared tenancy CPU
         | provision you had to crank up quickly at the last minute, costs
         | more a month than your entire infrastructure capex for 3 years
         | did before you got AWS resulting in sad kitty faces all around
         | and a scramble for a cheaper option while trying not to get
         | fired. This is all while Bezos dances on the flames coming from
         | the dollar bills he's burning in a giant bonfire cackling
         | loudly.
         | 
         | Fifth is several months later after being on the job market,
         | eating ramen and searching for a company which "doesn't do any
         | of that cloud stuff". You eventually find a position herding a
         | couple of 1U supermicro boxes with CentOS on them which require
         | the odd disk replacing here and there and some PHP updating
         | without going near Terraform, Jenkins or any of that shit. Your
         | entire infrastructure upgrade is automating your entire job
         | into a few ansible playbooks and spending 6 hours a day
         | inspecting the insides of your eyelids.
        
           | tacker2000 wrote:
           | Hilariously true. Yes, AWS has some services that are cheap
           | and not really replaceable, like S3, but once you come near
           | high performance EC2 and RDS and add multi-region in, you'll
           | really have a bad time. Believe me, Ive been there and in the
           | end had to migrate most of the applications to another
           | provider or host on prem.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | Eh. S3 is easily replaced by Wasabi. And less easily by
             | minio.
        
               | hughrr wrote:
               | Damn that's cheap on wasabi. No egress fees! Thanks for
               | pointing this one out.
        
               | snuxoll wrote:
               | Do note that wasabi is aimed for long-term retention of
               | cold data. There's no egress, but there is a fair usage
               | policy (2x data stored IIRC).
        
         | tomc1985 wrote:
         | It's fucking ironic how AWS selling point was how it was more
         | cost-effective than managing your own infra.
         | 
         | Yet another classic SV-style rugpull.
        
         | elforce002 wrote:
         | Preach! AWS is overrated.
        
         | cpncrunch wrote:
         | Me too. The data transfer costs would be the killer for me
         | (video conferencing).
        
       | rvnx wrote:
       | Switch from AWS to Google Cloud to save costs and not have to pay
       | an external service to give you sizing recommendations.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jmann99999 wrote:
       | I don't know anything about Vantage. It sounds like people have
       | had good luck with them.
       | 
       | However, what gets us our greatest savings on AWS are two things.
       | 
       | First, we have the luxury of being able to take advantage of
       | Reserved instances. We have decided how much we are wiling to
       | commit on EC2's, RDS, etc. and it saves us 10-30% depending on
       | what we do.
       | 
       | Second, and this is perhaps the more interesting one. We started
       | working with an "AWS Advanced Partner." Billing goes through them
       | and that reduces our charges. In addition, they pitch projects of
       | ours to AWS and if they are interesting enough to AWS, AWS
       | reduces charges for periods of time on servers related to those
       | developments.
       | 
       | While we use AWS, I think the game is the same with Google or
       | Microsoft. So, if you are looking to save some money, you may
       | look into companies who are Advanced AWS Partners, Premier Google
       | Partners, or Silver Microsoft Partners. It's likely they can help
       | you out.
        
         | nexuist wrote:
         | > In addition, they pitch projects of ours to AWS and if they
         | are interesting enough to AWS, AWS reduces charges for periods
         | of time on servers related to those developments.
         | 
         | Is there IP transfer here? They give you a discount in exchange
         | for knowing how you're making money?
        
       | rob_c wrote:
       | Was hoping there would be more of a numerical comparison to
       | various strategies when scaling and a comparison to other
       | strategies such as say self-hosting :(
       | 
       | (aws has a useful place and a use, but obviously spawning a new
       | vm for every query would just maximise cost over time)
        
       | SamuelAdams wrote:
       | This seems like an ad for vantage more than a cost-savings
       | tutorial. Can anyone talk about what specifically vantage is
       | doing to identify cost-saving areas?
       | 
       | Otherwise the title is misleading. Mods, can you update the title
       | to be the actual title of the article?
        
         | StratusBen wrote:
         | For what its worth, the original submission of the post as we
         | saw it was our blog post title of "Vantage Launches AWS Cost
         | Saving Recommendations" and was updated to this presumably by
         | HN mods.
        
       | KronisLV wrote:
       | If you're somewhat poor like me (living in Eastern Europe,
       | current net salary around 1500 euros a month; provides decent
       | quality of life here but not in a globalized economy), then the
       | first step of saving money would be not to bother with the
       | expensive cloud vendors: AWS, Azure and GCP.*
       | 
       | * this advice does not apply if you're a cog in an enterprise,
       | then use whatever the company mandates
       | 
       | Here's a few alternatives, from the most expensive to the least
       | expensive:
       | 
       | DigitalOcean: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/ A pretty
       | popular VPS provider that i'd say is cheaper than the above to
       | start us out. They also offer a whole bunch of different managed
       | services, if you're into that sort of stuff.
       | 
       | Vultr: https://www.vultr.com/products/cloud-compute/#pricing Much
       | like DigitalOcean, sans some of the managed services. On the
       | upside, they also sell smaller instances, though those tend to be
       | sold out in my experience.
       | 
       | Scaleway: https://www.scaleway.com/en/pricing/ Have a look at
       | their Development or Starburst instances (the latter are smaller
       | ones like Vultr), also they rival DigitalOcean in their managed
       | offerings. Pretty good CPU performance as well, in my experience.
       | 
       | Hetzner: https://www.hetzner.com/cloud I'd say that they're
       | cheaper than all of the above, but also have a reasonably modern
       | control panel, as well as block storage services if you need more
       | space. ID verification might be necessary if you're from an
       | undesireable country, though, so YMMV.
       | 
       | Time4VPS: https://www.time4vps.com/?affid=5294 I have used them
       | for almost all of my servers in the last 4 years or so (hence
       | affiliate link in case you check them out) - the control panel is
       | somewhat more dated and the managed offerings are limited, but
       | they're one of the cheapest legitimate hosts, since they're owned
       | by a Lithuanian telco. They also offer noticeable discounts if
       | you reserve instances for a year and i'd say they're a good
       | choice for most purposes, provided that you have backups (i have
       | a few backup servers in my home for that purpose).
       | 
       | Contabo: https://contabo.com/en/vps/ Perhaps the best specs that
       | you can get on the cheap, especially if you're after a decent
       | amount of storage, which is larger than most of the other hosts
       | provide you with (in lieu of block storage services). They do
       | have a setup fee for the instances, the process seems at least
       | partially manual on their part, the web UI is the most antiquated
       | i've seen of the bunch, the performance of the instances is
       | mediocre (they probably overprovision), but it all seems to work
       | regardless.
       | 
       | There are also other hosts out there, but the shadier they are,
       | the more likely data loss and/or theft is. But hey, balance your
       | needs with your capabilities to find what works the best for you!
       | Perhaps i'll even write a blog post and include some automated
       | benchmarks in the future on my blog.
       | 
       | Edit: if you feel like spending some of your time looking for
       | bargains (yaay for low alternative costs), then feel free to have
       | a look at LowEndBox, where interesting deals are sometimes
       | advertised: https://lowendbox.com/
       | 
       | Personally, however, i'd only pick companies that have been
       | around for $SOME years.
        
       | jpr5 wrote:
       | Really digging this product so far. So many times I've set up
       | complicated multi-region service architectures in AWS and will
       | still struggle to produce simple POVs on cost consumption (and
       | credit usage/outlook, for all us startups).
       | 
       | This thing is pretty damn straightforward and simple (which is
       | good), and TIL from Vantage that I've been using the wrong volume
       | type - gp3 is better and would save me money. I feel dumb not
       | knowing, but now Vantage made me a little smarter. ;-) Three
       | cheers for the cost savings recommendations!
        
         | Thristle wrote:
         | You shouldn't feel too bad, most companies/people don't know
         | how much money they are wasting on AWS.
         | 
         | Moreover, gp3 is very new (in cloud time) and most people don't
         | use it since it's not really supported that well in
         | cloudformation
        
         | clipradiowallet wrote:
         | To be honest, this is all the domain of your AWS service
         | advisor. At any type of scale(eg, when you move to invoiced
         | billing because CC billing would be absurd), you should be
         | overwhelmed by phone calls from that individual. While half of
         | their job is to upsell you, the other half is to help you save
         | costs to garner goodwill(and your future business).
         | 
         | If you've been dodging these calls in the past, it might be
         | worth picking up the phone.
        
       | brylie wrote:
       | DigitalOcean App Platform is simple and affordable:
       | 
       | https://docs.digitalocean.com/products/app-platform/
        
       | gnfargbl wrote:
       | I know it isn't for everyone, but if you're seriously trying to
       | save cash and you can handle the trade-off of managing your own
       | infrastructure, Hetzner has AX101s back in stock:
       | https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/ax101. EUR100/mo for
       | 16 Ryzen 9 cores, 128GB of RAM and 3.84TB of NVMe. Unlimited
       | traffic.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | Netcup is also excellent. It's the best CPU bang for the buck
         | that I've found, and where I run around 10 transcoding servers.
         | 
         | https://www.netcup.eu/
        
           | gnfargbl wrote:
           | While we're on the good-value dedicated server providers,
           | Contabo are also worth a look:
           | https://contabo.com/en/dedicated-servers/amd-epyc-32-cores
        
           | mwint wrote:
           | Do you have a link to a page with VPS sizes/prices? I'm only
           | seeing marketing stuff with no real numbers. I'm on mobile,
           | might have something to do with it.
        
         | kjaftaedi wrote:
         | Their fraud system errantly tagged me and they deleted all my
         | data.
         | 
         | I got an email saying there was an issue with my account,
         | called them within 10 minutes of the email and was informed
         | they had already deleted all my data.
         | 
         | They reinstated my account which was just a blank shell,
         | nothing remained but my username and password.
         | 
         | You get what you pay for.
         | 
         | If you go with them make sure you back up your data to a
         | separate provider.
        
         | heipei wrote:
         | Seconded. Every three months I get a little anxious about not
         | running on one of the clouds that would let me scale more
         | quickly (and also would let me do things like use Athena to go
         | through a huge S3 bucket). But then I do a little math and
         | realise that the bandwidth bill from AWS alone would eclipse
         | all of my hosting costs at Hetzner, not to speak of the actual
         | servers running there, and I don't really need fast scaling if
         | I can just provision everything with a nice margin (2x) and
         | still come out way below AWS prices. But it really depends on
         | the nature of your business I suppose.
        
           | hughrr wrote:
           | Bandwidth on AWS has some scary side effects if you're not
           | careful. A former colleague of mine got screwed for this and
           | S3. Backup storage costs? $57 a month. Just the bandwidth fee
           | to do a restore? $450
        
         | system2 wrote:
         | No U.S. alternative.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | That's less than my accidental personal AWS bill a couple of
         | months ago!
        
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