[HN Gopher] Podswap: Keep airpods alive and out of the landfill
___________________________________________________________________
Podswap: Keep airpods alive and out of the landfill
Author : ilarum
Score : 395 points
Date : 2021-07-11 15:44 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thepodswap.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thepodswap.com)
| culopatin wrote:
| I was hoping this was going to be a service for people who lost
| one AirPod to build a set. Apple's pricing of an AirPod
| replacement puts it $30 from a new set
| jet_32951 wrote:
| Rooted Android users can get charge monitoring/settable charge
| limits e.g. 80%, then stop, with ACCA. GitHub and F-Droid.
| visualphoenix wrote:
| Are they actually replacing the battery at all? Or are they
| simply sending you "AirReps"? The clones these days cost $30.
| Most folks wouldn't recognize the difference, except for the poor
| microphone recording quality.
| e40 wrote:
| According to the FAQ they are refurbished from previous
| customers, and yours are sent to future customers.
| azuriten wrote:
| This is a great idea and I wish we had this in the UK. I was
| quoted PS65 to replace my failing, right AirPod and PS130 to
| replace both of them when RRP for new ones are PS160.
|
| I'd much rather replace the batteries of my existing ones then
| buy a new pair but with such a small price difference to get a
| pair it doesn't seem worth it.
| pieterk wrote:
| FYI Apple does this for $49 each, this website charges you $59.99
| a pair. https://support.apple.com/airpods/repair/service#battery
|
| Edit: updated pricing thanks to comment by tanduv
| tanduv wrote:
| If I read it right - that Apple support article says "$ 49
| each"... meaning $49 per AirPod; while Podswap covers a pair
| for $59?
| gnicholas wrote:
| Even with a pretty big pricing gap ($100 for Apple and $60 for
| Podswap, per pair), this seems like a risky business to enter.
| What makes them think that Apple won't drop the price of their
| service by $30 and put them out of business?
|
| Apple could do swaps much more efficiently due to their
| physical stores (where you could swap in real-time), and most
| people would pay a $10 premium over Podswap to have the Apple
| name behind their purchase.
|
| The only thing that would give me comfort about Podswaps'
| business model is the fact that Apple undoubtedly would prefer
| to sell you a new pair rather than fix up your old pair.
| unilynx wrote:
| Apple isn't really in the business of undercutting
| competitors on price
| gnicholas wrote:
| That's true, and I wasn't suggesting they would undercut
| Podswap on price -- just that they would drop their own
| price somewhat and eat up enough market that this business
| wouldn't be sustainable.
| santialbo wrote:
| It costs 75EUR in Europe, which is stupid since a new pair
| costs 130EUR.
|
| https://support.apple.com/es-es/airpods/repair/service
| layer8 wrote:
| Battery service is "only" 55EUR in Europe.
| purplecats wrote:
| does this work for pros?
| Etheryte wrote:
| As someone who gets a ridiculous amount of use out of their pods,
| I really hope this business pans out. I think the product is
| great, but batteries are consumable products. In fact, I would
| hope that one day it would be mandatory to offer battery
| replacements for all products you sell. (Do correct me if I'm
| wrong, I don't think Apple currently does this for pods?)
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| what's frustrating is that while batteries are consumable
| products they could last much longer if they stay between 80
| and 20% capacity without overheating. (this is similar to what
| tesla does) I wish there was a "battery care" settings on all
| electronics that would respect limits like this so that I could
| get thousands of cycles out of my devices instead of only
| <1000.
|
| Apple has added a feature which tries to do this intelligently
| to some extent but it's not the best at guessing what my needs
| are.
|
| The majority of the time I do not need max or even half of max
| battery life from my devices. airpods I only use for an hour or
| two at a time for example and my phone is usually close to a
| charger.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| That might be what's already happening behind the scenes
| though. They tell you you're at 10% but that's actually 30%
| for example
| stefan_ wrote:
| For cars, maybe, but my org has had a long line of HP
| laptops with swollen battery packs within a year of use. No
| doubt there are companies out there that would rather have
| the extra hour of runtime on some journalists review fact
| sheet than a battery that doesn't put their customers at
| risk.
| eitland wrote:
| I hope all those gets replaced under warranty?
|
| I hounded Dell for months and got them to replace I guess
| 2 or 3 dozens of Optiplex DL270 motherboards and it felt
| good: forcing them to take the cost for their shoddy
| work.
| stefan_ wrote:
| They do but in the meantime you got a laptop that only
| works off AC.
| eitland wrote:
| Sad to hear.
|
| The times I had an issue with an HP business laptop I
| called them and either a technician came to my office and
| replaced the part (a screen in that case) or they sent a
| spare after confirming I was capable to change it myself.
| HPsquared wrote:
| There's another side as well though - a failing battery
| will stop working unpredictably, which is also very bad
| for business/productivity.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| That's heat damage not discharge.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| 10% vs 30% corresponds to whatever arbitrary voltage they
| select but I doubt they are selecting for battery
| durability over all else since marketing max run time is so
| important.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Automotive engineer that doesn't work on EVs here...
| there is a lot that goes into the battery. Heating and
| cooling elements for instance. You're right, max runtime
| is the number one factor, but this can be gamed just like
| MPG ratings.
|
| I'm not sure many reviews are checking 0-60 times at 20%
| battery for example.
|
| My EV has a hilarious "miles remaining" number that
| INSTANTLY changes when the HVAC is on, doesn't matter if
| it's only slightly on or not, I instantly "lose" 8 or 9%.
| It's pretty loose. As to what I actually get? Doesn't
| really matter, never even compared to rating, mfgs know
| we use these cars for city travel.
|
| The small percentage of EVs you see on long haul highway,
| owners already know to carefully plan their trips.
| cduzz wrote:
| Depends on the locations and cars in question; on the
| east coast there are lots of DC Fast charging stations
| between anywhere and anywhere else.
|
| This is double true for Tesla where there are
| superchargers nearly everywhere. With access
| superchargers, road trips are roughly as complex as
| driving a diesel with a 5-8 gallon tank.
|
| Also the tesla UI is very good at managing the trip so it
| is trivial to offload the "how do I get there including
| charging" task to the UI.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Good point, and it is/does for many products. EVs beyond
| Tesla all do this for instance.
|
| I do wish there was a little more of treating your users
| like adults though. If I have enough battery to make an
| urgent call, but it puts me under the 20% recommended, I
| want to make that call at the cost of long term battery
| life.
|
| My products treat users like adults, I wish it was a more
| common consideration.
| ddingus wrote:
| My Note 8 phone has a charge battery notification at 15
| percent.
|
| I just replaced that phone, and yes with another one
| because I happen to like that model a lot, and my old one
| did 1500+ cycles with respectable battery capacity
| remaining. I replaced it due to a cracked screen, not
| battery trouble.
|
| My general experience has been to avoid fully charging
| the battery and leaving the device on the charger, plus
| avoiding high demand use under 15 to 20 percent adds very
| considerably to longer term battery health.
|
| This has played out across a number of devices, lenovo
| laptop, various phones.
|
| After, say a few hundred cycles, it's very important to
| avoid taking the battery below 5 percent or even to zero.
| When that happens, the battery capacity is reduced every
| time, and it's by a significant amount.
| elliekelly wrote:
| It _does_ feel like the final 10% of battery lasts way
| longer than the drain from 20% to 10%.
| w0m wrote:
| I think they start cutting performance significantly for
| that final ~10%; screen dims; cpu undervolts, etc.
| cptskippy wrote:
| As batteries discharge their voltage drops. This is known
| as a discharge curve. The curve is based on a constant
| current, different current draws have different curves.
|
| http://learningrc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Lipo-
| Discha...
|
| Battery capacity is guessed by the Voltage output at the
| current draw when measured.
|
| Laptops usually throttle components, reducing current
| draw, when they fall below certain percentages. This
| prolongs the battery so that last 10% really does last
| longer.
|
| This article goes into some nitty gritty details if
| you're curious.
|
| http://learningrc.com/lipo-battery/
|
| Determining actually battery capacity and runtime are
| educated guesses because all the factors impacting them
| are constantly changing.
| ddlutz wrote:
| estimating battery life is hard, it might be due to that.
| nomoreplease wrote:
| Why 80%? Is 100% dangerous?
| FredFS456 wrote:
| Neither 0% nor 100% are dangerous, but lithium ion
| batteries wear out a lot faster if you cycle them all the
| way instead of only staying within 20-80%.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Li-ions are charged in Constant Current mode from cutoff
| voltage(2.75V-3.2V) until maximum voltage(4.2-4.3V), and
| charged some more in Constant Voltage mode until cutoff
| current(<0.1C) is reached. Nominal voltage is in the middle
| at 3.7V.
|
| I believe these (cutoff voltage, CC->CV switch, cutoff
| current point) are commonly referred to as (0%, 80%, 100%)
| levels respectively, if safety margins and psychological
| tweaks are not considered.
|
| Which leads to an assumption that it is this Constant
| Voltage region that is often said to be damaging to cells,
| though I don't know exactly why.
| dnhz wrote:
| I don't think you could get thousands of cycles, but you
| might be able to go from <500 to ~1000. Higher quality cells
| might achieve the same thing though. Apple guarantees 1000
| cycles on its laptops, like a sister comment states.
|
| Consider a Tesla that gets ~250 miles of range per full
| cycle. The battery would reach 1000 cycles after 250k miles
| of driving, at which point you have a pretty old car.
| Depending on factors like time, environmental conditions,
| driving style, a battery replacement might be necessary at
| some point in the car's life. So the batteries in EVs
| probably cannot sustain thousands of cycles. The battery
| capacity is large enough that the overall cycle count is
| reasonable within the lifespan of the vehicle, and the
| battery cooling system keeps degradation reasonable given the
| high demands EV batteries must fulfill.
| aetherspawn wrote:
| Ex EV battery engineer here. You're right that the cycle life
| of a lithium battery typically doubles per 0.05V ('tik')
| undercharged from 4.15V (and on the other end of the scale as
| well, less so).
|
| This typically corresponds to around 7-10% capacity per
| 'tik', so to effectively triple your battery cycle count
| would reduce the runtime by approximately 30%.
|
| Interesting effect here.. the amount of power in each cycle
| is less because you're undercharging the battery. And for
| each consecutive 'tik', 0.05V is approximately more power
| because the discharge curve becomes flatter (voltage != state
| of charge). It doesn't scale like you'd think. Seriously
| diminishing returns!
| justnotworthit wrote:
| Could you tell me if the "under X%" claim is true about
| battery? I saw an old study that didn't seem to be affected
| by how low the charge got, just heat (fast charge) and time
| spent charging over 80%.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Well the good thing about these kinds of buds is that your
| rarely discharge them heavily. Because you always put them
| back in the case. Mine never go below 50% (don't have airpods
| but cheapie EUR20 xiaomis that work surprisingly great).
|
| But it would be nice to have an option to avoid 100% yes.
| wonnage wrote:
| There are a lot of complaints about the buds not charging
| in the case, most likely due to not making full contact
| with the charging pins. The buds have no auto-sleep feature
| for some reason, so they'll stay connected until the
| battery runs out.
|
| Not only is this annoying, it also adds tons of unnecessary
| full discharge cycles.
|
| The new wireless charging cases are also bad - they seem to
| stay warm even when no longer charging, which probably
| degrades the batteries as well.
| tbrock wrote:
| Apple is the only laptop manufacturer that even gets close to
| 1000 cycles of great battery life.
| w0m wrote:
| As seemingly half my coworkers needed batteries replaced on
| 2018 macbooks last year roughly as applecare ran out due to
| not being able to charge and work at the same time.
| DeliriumTrigger wrote:
| It's nice having a battery when their soldered ssds crap
| out after 5 years.
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| That's not been my experience, all the Dells I've owned
| have had great long lasting batteries.
| fomine3 wrote:
| Lenovo and other manufacturers provides configuration app
| to limit State of Charge for battery over a decade ago.
| Apple just implemented similar feature (but automatic) in
| 2020. Without that, battery is unnecessary degrading while
| plugged into AC with 100% SOC.
| mmastrac wrote:
| Honestly, has anyone gotten 1000 out of a MacBook? Mine
| always goes to "service battery" around 300-400.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I think I got a pretty high number out of my first
| MacBook Pro before the battery swelled up like a bad
| bruise. But my current work laptop is now at 87% capacity
| with 82 cycles, so I don't have a lot of confidence in
| the battery lasting to 1000.
| deathtrader666 wrote:
| I have a "Service Battery" notification since 3 years,
| still gives me 4 hours.
| w0m wrote:
| Can charge while working the machine still?
| Teams/Docker/etc chugging and charge % steadily dropped
| irregardless of port/charger used.
| vikbytes wrote:
| I got that warning on my Macbook Pro from 2014 after ~820
| cycles.
|
| So, somewhat close at least?
| lathiat wrote:
| Apple actually does this both with your iPhone battery and
| your AirPods but it's automatic and you can't ask to switch
| to that mode. I see it holding my AirPods at 80% overnight
| quite a bit. They call it "optimised battery charging".
|
| I use my AirPods so much all day every day I do wish I could
| ask it to use that mode permanently.
| leucineleprec0n wrote:
| You can turn off optimized battery charging. Settings >
| bluetooth device info > toggle it
| tedunangst wrote:
| Alas, a product that lasts five hours for 100 cycles gets
| much better reviews than a product that lasts four hours for
| 1000 cycles.
| nomoreplease wrote:
| I wonder if this was configurable, if that would get better
| reviews than both?
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| > I don't think Apple currently does this for pods?
|
| There are comments on Reddit by Apple store employees who claim
| there's absolutely no repair policy for Apple pods, That they
| go straight to the bin.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Look at an airpod. Why should the battery be consumable but not
| the airpod? They have about the same amount of electronics. The
| average airpod user throws out more than an airpod's worth of
| plastic _per day_. I get _junk mail_ with electronic trash that
| is bigger than an airpod.
|
| Airpods are used with iPhones that have 20x the amount of
| electronics, so should last 20x as long.
|
| People's real concern is the _price_ which is higher than they
| guess because they think airpods are like regular headphones in
| longevity.
| megous wrote:
| Maybe that calc changes when you look at environmental
| effects of having to keep manufacturing new chips.
| tjbiddle wrote:
| This was exactly my thought when I saw the headline. The air
| pods are so small, they're not contributing a large part to
| plastic waste.
|
| It's the same story with trying to get rid of plastic straws.
|
| In both cases, I don't want to dismiss the problem - it's
| just that there are bigger fish to fry to make a much large
| impact to the bottom line of plastic pollution.
|
| Now, after reading through the "Our Story" of Podswap's
| website, I can see that the real selling point is: "Our
| batteries keep dying prematurely, and we don't want to fork
| over the cash for a whole new pair."
|
| Recycling is great - keep it as a value proposition, but it
| shouldn't be the main marketing push here.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| > It's the same story with trying to get rid of plastic
| straws.
|
| The plastic straw thing is not to make an impact on the
| environment, it was chosen to make an impact on everyone's
| life.
|
| Yes, we could do something bigger, but people won't notice
| because they can't see the effect in their day to day life.
|
| Ban plastic straws though and EVERYONE notices and talks
| about it constantly everywhere. And if even one person
| starts using less plastic because of that, it was a
| success.
| philwelch wrote:
| This strikes me as the same basic reasoning as blocking
| traffic to protest various social causes.
|
| If you're "making an impact on everyone's life" in the
| form of making their lives more annoying and
| inconvenient, those people are going to resent you and
| the cause for which you inconvenienced them.
| themeiguoren wrote:
| > And if even one person starts using less plastic
| because of that, it was a success.
|
| I can buy not relying on the first order impacts of
| banning plastic straws for the coat-benefit analysis, but
| relying on second-order effects doesn't mean you get to
| toss out cost-benefit altogether.
| sushid wrote:
| I disagree. I think if anything, it'll lead to people
| being more angry/disillusioned about recycling. It's the
| equivalent of your teacher/parent/manager micromanaging
| you on trivial tasks. Let the person figure out what they
| want to do but make sweeping changes that are meaningful
| (e.g. reg cap on companies producing/importing disposable
| plastic goods).
| playpause wrote:
| If someone feels they are already doing their part by
| sacrificing the convenience of plastic straws, how does
| this make them _more_ likely to reduce plastic use
| elsewhere in their life? I would expect the opposite.
| namibj wrote:
| Where are the electronics in the battery?
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Every Li-ion battery has a control circuit in it. Batteries
| stopped being just containers of electrons a long while
| ago.
|
| All high-capacity batteries need a management chip.
| [deleted]
| SilverRed wrote:
| Yeah I think just the shipping for sending airpods back and
| forth (in a shipping bag) could come close to the waste of
| just buying a new pair.
| reaperducer wrote:
| The web site states: "The first-ever battery replacement
| program."
|
| I'm not sure this is true. Apple had an AirPods battery
| replacement program before COVID-19. I had my wife's done. I
| wanted to get mine done this past January, but it didn't seem to
| be an option anymore. Maybe because of the pandemic and the
| global supply chain problems and such.
|
| "Only current" battery replacement program, maybe. But not first-
| ever.
| conradev wrote:
| My understanding is that Apple never replaced the batteries,
| they just swapped the AirPods with new ones
| reaperducer wrote:
| That's what this company does, too.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| But with refurbished ones, not new. And at a much better
| price.
| lights0123 wrote:
| No, they actually open them up and swap the battery and
| resell, i.e. refurbishing. Apple just throws them away.
| reaperducer wrote:
| According to the company's web site, they send you
| replacement AirPods before you send your old ones in. So
| no, they are not replacing your batteries and sending
| them back to you.
| lights0123 wrote:
| > and resell
| internet2000 wrote:
| Are we sure Apple just throws them away?
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Apple would be crazy to do anything else; new airpods are
| cheap to make and more reliable.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Why wouldn't they?
|
| They're designed to be disposable tech.
| mikestew wrote:
| They could be referring to the fact Apple did not really
| replace your batteries, but instead just gave you a new set of
| AirPods.
|
| OTOH, I guess Apple's program _does_ replace the batteries,
| just not in the way I thought they would.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| Over here I'm still using 3$ Panasonic earbuds from 2012.
|
| I spent $15 dollars so I could have 1 in my car, 1 in my laptop
| bag, 1 next to my computer, and 2 backup for when I lose them or
| have new location. Haven't lost them yet.
|
| Maybe you really do need wireless and it's worth the effort of
| charging and replacing batteries. Or maybe you are being sold a
| veblen good and your brain is exploited by a trillion dollar
| corporation's marketing department.
| culopatin wrote:
| Good for you.
| maxerickson wrote:
| For many types of exercise, music from watch over Bluetooth
| really is the dream.
|
| (I tend to buy the ~$40 version though)
| mcculley wrote:
| For me, it is audiobooks and podcasts from the watch over
| Bluetooth while running outdoors. It really is a game changer
| for me.
| throw03172019 wrote:
| Does it work for the Pros as well? All the pics seem to be the
| non-pro AirPods.
| advisedwang wrote:
| Their FAQ says:
|
| > We currently accept AirPod Generation 1 & 2. If you would
| like AirPod Pros, you can join the waitlist here
| [http://eepurl.com/hqjLSr] and be notified when we offer that
| service is available.
| throw03172019 wrote:
| Thank you!
| tokamak-teapot wrote:
| Is there an alternative to AirPods that's the same shape? I can't
| wear the type of earphones that block the ear canal.
| specialist wrote:
| Just guessing:
|
| Podswap has stock of both new "blank" bud cases and batteries.
|
| Crack open buds using some kind of jig. Scoop out the
| electronics. Solder to new battery. Cram it all back together.
|
| That's how I'd do it.
|
| Bonus points for choice of colors. I'd love clear or forest green
| or deep purple.
|
| Watching a few air pod tear down videos, I find it weird the
| battery itself isn't part of the case. Like just use white
| instead of black. Have the barrel twist lock into place. Makes
| the battery replaceable. And that extra millimeter of diameter
| would probably be 50% more mAh.
|
| I know replaceable batteries is un-Apple. But that's what I'd do.
| tyingq wrote:
| >Podswap has stock of both new "blank" bud cases and batteries.
|
| They seem very picky about the condition of the case on what
| you send in, so I'm not sure they have a stock of new cases.
|
| See:
| https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0520/9856/4273/products/ai...
| specialist wrote:
| Oops. I misread that graphic. I thought it was examples of
| "before" air pods.
|
| My puppy gnawed on my pair, so I was excited to get them
| rehabilitated.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Their FAQ is pretty clear that they actually replace the
| batteries somehow. I'm glad someone figured out how to do that,
| but I agree with you that the airpod batteries (like the
| batteries in everything else) should have been replaceable in
| the first place.
| beckman466 wrote:
| > I agree with you that the airpod batteries (like the
| batteries in everything else) should have been replaceable in
| the first place.
|
| 100% agree, you can't unsee things like this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mleQVO1Vd1I
| petespeed wrote:
| Some thoughts:
|
| 1. Every new product designed should have a cost associated
| to it for proper disposal. Thus total cost of ownership is
| a "green cost" which is not just acquisition but also
| proper disposal.
|
| 2. Another option is to put burden of mandatory proper
| recycling back on the original manufacturer of the product
| using the same supply-chain that is used for sales. Thus
| consumers should be able to drop electronics at retail
| store -> supplier -> manufacturer, eventually leading to
| proper disposal.
|
| 3. Incentives from government and/or from culture for
| manufacturers whose products support R2R (Right to Repair).
| Thus encouraging reuse and refurb market.
|
| 4. Certify for and incentivize towards extending Total life
| of equipment. e.g. low-durability electronics carry a low-
| durability tax.
| crooked-v wrote:
| Currently, "proper disposal" of most plastic producta
| means just dumping them in a landfill somewhere anyway.
| SilverRed wrote:
| Which isn't that bad. The oil came from under ground.
| Stick it back there and its not too bad. The real problem
| is when it ends up in rivers and oceans.
| beckman466 wrote:
| > Which isn't that bad. The oil came from under ground.
| Stick it back there and its not too bad.
|
| I'm curious what you based this on?
|
| Did you fall victim to ultracrepidarianism / the fallacy
| of transferable expertise [1]?
|
| _" The millions of tons of plastic swirling around the
| world's oceans have garnered a lot of media attention
| recently. But plastic pollution arguably poses a bigger
| threat to the plants and animals - including humans - who
| are based on land.
|
| Very little of the plastic we discard every day is
| recycled or incinerated in waste-to-energy facilities.
| Much of it ends up in landfills, where it may take up to
| 1,000 years to decompose, leaching potentially toxic
| substances into the soil and water.
|
| Researchers in Germany are warning that the impact of
| microplastics in soils, sediments and freshwater could
| have a long-term negative effect on such ecosystems. They
| say terrestrial microplastic pollution is much higher
| than marine microplastic pollution - estimated at four to
| 23 times higher, depending on the environment."_ [2]
|
| [1] https://twitter.com/bjorn/status/953778121764831232
|
| [2] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/plastic-
| planet-h...
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Sticking something back into the ground in a safe way is
| non-trivial. That is to say, expensive - more expensive
| than waste-management companies in developing countries
| care to pay. Among other things, you need to make sure it
| won't be broken down by UV radiation from the Sun,
| weathered by wind and washed into the rivers, and that
| nothing leaks out and reaches the water table.
| beckman466 wrote:
| > Sticking something back into the ground in a safe way
| is non-trivial. That is to say, expensive - more
| expensive than waste-management companies in developing
| countries care to pay
|
| You do realize the waste is created by global north
| capitalists (and consumed by global north capitalists and
| the working class), right? So why mention that it is
| expensive for global south countries ('developing
| countries'), as if it's ok that the burden of our waste
| is on them?
|
| In other words the global south countries have to deal
| with their own waste, as well as being used as trash dump
| by the global north capitalists. And if they are creating
| a lot of waste, it's because they buy planned obsolescent
| black box products from global north companies (companies
| who 'kicked away the ladder' in the first place [1] [2]).
|
| [1] https://anthempress.com/kicking-away-the-ladder-pb
|
| [2] https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/5/6/rich-
| countries-d...
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| > _So why mention that it is expensive for global south
| countries ( 'developing countries'), as if the burden is
| on them?_
|
| Wait, that's totally not what I wanted to say.
|
| I mention it is expensive for companies there - companies
| operating there (including multinational), and companies
| shipping there. So they just don't do it, period. That
| they can get away with it is the very reason waste goes
| there, instead of staying in the West.
|
| Of course I'm not blaming the developing countries: I'm
| blaming the companies of "global north capitalism" for
| _exploiting_ the communities that can 't afford to reject
| a deal that's ultimately bad from them. The problem is
| that the waste can be exported like this in the first
| place.
| beckman466 wrote:
| > I mention it is expensive for companies there -
| companies operating there (including multinational), and
| companies shipping there.
|
| > I'm blaming the companies of "global north capitalism"
| for _exploiting_ the communities that can 't afford to
| reject a deal that's ultimately bad from them.
|
| Got it, thanks for clarifying what you meant.
|
| > The problem is that the waste can be exported like this
| in the first place.
|
| Yes, I 100% agree with you.
|
| >> waste-management companies in developing countries
|
| That threw me off because in my experience often a
| service like this is taken care of by governments/local
| municipalities. So now I understand that you are talking
| about corporate entities managing waste.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| I only mentioned waste management companies in developing
| countries because I watched the Ghana documentary you
| linked upthread:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27804441
|
| My understanding from that video is that there's a
| _network_ of companies involved - some on the export
| side, and some on the import side. Some of the latter are
| purely local operations - like the people operating the
| dump in that documentary.
|
| In cases like that video, I find it hard to blame the
| locals: it's not like they have a more reasonable
| alternative to make money. But that's not always the case
| when it comes to waste management. For example, Poland is
| infamous for having illegal toxic waste dumps. Some local
| companies offer importing and properly disposing of the
| waste, but in reality they just bury it in the ground.
| For these people I wish long jail sentences, because we
| _do_ have alternatives in this country; our economy does
| not necessitate for people to create environmental
| disasters (which then cost the taxpayer much more when
| discovered, as government then has to clean it up).
| ryana wrote:
| I've used podswap for my Gen 1 AirPods and it was fantastic. It
| took a couple cycles for everything to be back to normal (full
| charge, full volume) but they were up front that it takes a few
| recharges for everything to settle in.
|
| Absolutely no complaints.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I understand how full charge might have an adjustment period,
| but how is volume affected?
| pmx wrote:
| Higher volumes require more current, the circuit probably
| limits what it pulls from the cell until it has learned about
| it to avoid damaging it.
| deanclatworthy wrote:
| Can you explain why this is the case? Why would it take a
| couple of cycles for everything to return to normal if it's
| just a straight battery swap?
| bruceb wrote:
| I am pro refurbishing/reusing and having less waste but its hard
| to care about tiny airpods being tossed.
|
| Maybe they test the message and it resonated better than "Airpods
| should last longer than your last relationship" or "1 trick that
| Apple hates"
|
| etc.
| samatman wrote:
| It's just the Discourse in action.
|
| For whatever reason, AirPods, of all things, have become a go-
| to example of environmental waste and throwaway culture.
|
| It's bizarre to me. I'm fairly confident that for minutes of
| pleasure / embodied energy, AirPods score higher than almost
| anything else I own, certainly among things with a battery and
| chip. They also last multiples of the time I would get out of
| wired earphones, which always die in a few months from work-
| hardening the copper wires until they break.
|
| My model is this: some people just hate Apple. It's an identity
| thing, phones are very personal and bring out tribal instincts
| (blue vs. green speech bubbles!), and AirPods are a _visible_
| signifier of "team Apple". So some people just, don't like 'em
| -\\_(tsu)_/-. The reasons are downstream of that.
|
| I also think that, since the only consumables are the battery
| and speaker membranes, it's great that someone wants to replace
| the batteries when they go bad. Membranes as well! Making
| consumer goods last longer is virtuous.
| an_opabinia wrote:
| > last multiples of the time I would get out of wired
| earphones, which always die in a few months from work-
| hardening the copper wires until they break
|
| Hmm...
|
| > It's just the Discourse in action... I'm fairly confident
| that for minutes of pleasure / embodied energy, AirPods score
| higher than almost anything else I own, certainly among
| things with a battery and chip
|
| It's interesting to reduce environmentalism to "joy per unit
| size * time." To its credit, if you do the accounting right,
| a lot of environmentally really bad things, like gasoline and
| meat, have very poor joy per (size time), while being a
| tourist in a conserved rainforest has very high joy per size
| time.
|
| But it's still flawed. Like Bitcoin has high joy per unit
| size and time, it turns cheaper electricity into more money
| you can spend on jetskis. No intellectually honest person
| claims that is environmentally friendly. You've chosen a
| framework that's idiosyncratically very friendly to
| electronics and things nerds are into, that I'm not sure
| would even make sense to people in almost any time prior to
| 1970. They by and large lived without the joys of electronics
| and did nothing to address the environmental disaster they're
| dying too soon to experience. Surely you see the same thing
| happening now, and right to repair is just one of many fronts
| of forward-thinking people trying to right those wrongs.
|
| I'm not advocating for "end to end emissions" as the
| framework either, because what you're saying people hate on
| Apple for is almost always true about Tesla. People
| complaining about electric cars having higher emissions are
| both wrong and saying that stuff in bad faith.
|
| But to go on social media and complain about the "Discourse"
| you are participating in is definitely intellectually
| dishonest. AirPods are shitty in their own unique way, and
| I'm not sure if any intellectual is seriously advocating, in
| their raw quoted form as opposed to a headline, that the way
| that they are shitty is exclusively your reductive
| perspective on "environmentally friendly."
| samatman wrote:
| You misread me, my case was joy * time / embodied energy.
|
| How else should we justify the use of energy except through
| such means? Subjectively I mean, I wouldn't suggest
| actually quantifying it.
|
| I don't burn energy in the winter because I like to spend
| money, I do it because there's an interior temperature
| below which I'm miserable. Once I've achieved that
| homeostasis, the only think left to me is to do it with _as
| little energy as possible_.
|
| > _AirPods are shitty in their own unique way_
|
| That's just like, your opinion, man.
|
| Speaking of intellectual dishonesty, I will never reply to
| you again.
| an_opabinia wrote:
| I own AirPods, I like them, but it sucks that they die
| when their battery dies, and they have to be thrown away
| for pretty much no good reason - just because that's how
| Apple designed it, and it could have many design
| priorities, and one of those priorities is to not throw
| nice shit away after two years.
|
| In the spirit of advancing curiosity, it was interesting
| to just see, is it possible to reduce environmentalism to
| something like "joy * time / embodied energy"? Bitcoin is
| mined because a bitcoin is worth more than the
| electricity used to mine it, so if your joy * time is
| "making money quickly" - which it is for a lot of people!
| - it seems really attractive to mine bitcoin but it isn't
| environmentally friendly.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| The point is that the _environmental_ focus on airpods is
| irrational. look at everything in your trash can this
| _week_.
|
| If you are upset that they are too expensive, don't buy
| them. The price isn't going to waste; it has an enormous
| profit margin over the BoM. (a lot, perhaps most, of the
| true cost is fixed overhead, so buying more airpods makes
| them more efficient!)
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > look at everything in your trash can this week.
|
| My trash can almost never has electronic waste in it? It
| seems really odd that you're seemingly claiming that it's
| common for people to regularly throw away ewaste to such
| a degree that airpods are a rounding error.
|
| There's more to airpods than plastic after all.
| an_opabinia wrote:
| > look at everything in your trash can this week.
|
| You're just saying, "if it's small it's okay" again. It's
| not that reductive. I agree that plastic is bad. I also
| think throwing away AirPods is bad, for a different
| reason than plastic is bad, but really, are they the same
| reason? It's so much more interesting when it's not as
| reductive as "small things are okay to throw away" or
| whatever like, really simplistic thought is going on
| here.
| slg wrote:
| You can't just blame this on "the Discourse" or Apple haters.
| I have owned countless devices with batteries over my life.
| None has made me as acutely aware of its battery degrading as
| Airpods. Eventually I couldn't even make it through a full
| workout or work call on a single charge. They basically
| became worthless through nothing but normal usage. There was
| no visible physical damage. I treated them exactly how I was
| supposed to treat them according to Apple and still only got
| 2-3 years out of them. That is frustrating. It also is unlike
| many other Apple products as lots of people are perfectly
| satisfied with their 5+ year old Macbooks and iPhones.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| The same degradation happens to my clothing, food, and
| wired headphones.
| slg wrote:
| I am guessing your are just trolling by throwing food
| into that list, but I have had clothes and wired
| headphones last for over a decade with proper care. There
| is no way to properly care for Airpods that would extend
| the life of their batteries past a few years.
| crazygringo wrote:
| I don't own _anything_ powered by li-ion where the battery
| lasts more than 2-3 years.
|
| Both my MacBook and iPhones I've had the battery swapped
| after not being able to hold a charge for more than ~25% of
| original after 2-3 years. I'm still satisfied, but I
| _absolutely_ had to get the battery swapped. Twice in one
| case.
|
| AirPods are no worse in this regard. After all, why would
| they be -- li-ion chemistry is the same.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| Seriously? Nothing? I have a Game Boy SP with it's
| original battery. Still has a few hours runtime. Not as
| good as new but it's still usable. My Vita still holds a
| few hours too and it's almost 10 years old at this point.
| I've heard of people's airpods not holding any charge
| after a year or two. Mine still work but they are very
| degraded and can't handle a 1 hour phone call anymore.
| slg wrote:
| >Both my MacBook and iPhones I've had the battery swapped
| after not being able to hold a charge for more than ~25%
| of original after 2-3 years.
|
| I have never experienced this with the laptops or phones
| I have owned. I am still rocking an iPhone X that is
| almost 4 years old and I just checked the battery health
| and it shows max capacity at 86%. That matches with my
| expectations as the degradation is barely noticeable and
| I still have no problem making it through an average day
| on a single charge.
|
| Are you by chance leaving these devices charging for
| extended periods of time? That appears to be one of the
| primary problems with Airpods. The design choice of
| making the carrying case a charging case means that the
| individual Airpods spend almost all of their life at 100%
| charge. That degrades the battery quicker than normal
| usage. If you treat your laptop as a desktop and have it
| plugged in 24/7, you are doing a lot of unnecessary harm
| to your battery which might explain what you are
| experiencing.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| This seems way too conveniently dismissive of the
| environmental issue. Apple is the 800 lb gorilla that sets
| industry expectations. They have been gluing batteries and
| making repair difficult across their product line for a
| decade. This leads to higher consumer costs and manufactured
| goods filling landfills prematurely. As one of the most
| visible companies in the world making repair difficult, the
| criticism is well-deserved. The airpods are perhaps the
| height of unrepairable apple tech.
|
| Sure any valid criticism of Apple is going to invite a pile-
| on from the apple haters but it does not follow that the
| original criticism is invalid.
| samatman wrote:
| Apple laptops and phones _objectively_ last longer than the
| competition.
|
| Most of that is software support. Some of it is that they
| make few models, and sell at a premium, so there is a
| robust secondary market in used devices. They continue to
| make and sell batteries for old models, and there are
| plenty of counterfeits available if you want to risk it.
|
| Apple recently (late last year) replaced the battery on my
| Mom's iPhone 6, which will turn seven this year. I saw an
| estimate that _half_ of all iPhones 4 are still in use,
| mostly in developing nations. That was two years ago, but,
| still.
|
| As for laptops, same basic principle applies, except I have
| to give a shoutout to the Thinkpad T series for sheer
| longevity. You have to want a Thinkpad T, but if you do,
| they're excellent and durable computers.
|
| But with that one (sterling) exception, Macbooks last about
| twice as long as anyone else's computers. You can easily
| confirm this yourself by checking eBay. The butterfly
| keyboard era may have put an end to that, though, which is
| a damn shame, but we can hope the return of the scissor
| keyboard will bring it back.
|
| As for the AirPods. What are we talking about on this page
| again?
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| > Apple laptops and phones objectively last longer than
| the competition.
|
| I'm not sure if you've spent much time watching Louis
| Rossman's youtube channel, but it is full of examples of
| Apple telling customers a device needs to be replaced
| when simple repairs are possible. [1][2][3]
|
| Apple worked with US Customs and Border Patrol to seize
| replacement batteries for laptops that apple will no
| longer service. [4]
|
| Rossman has a lot of videos so I did not find original
| sources for the following, but he has also called Apple
| support about replacing a charging port on a phone. Apple
| support told him the charging port was soldered to the
| motherboard and the phone needed to be replaced. But that
| charging port on that device is attached via a cable and
| is not soldered to the board. It can be replaced for a
| few dollars in five minutes.
|
| Rossman also says that apple prevents third party chip
| manufacturers from selling to repair shops. So Rossman
| could repair certain macbooks with a $6 chip from (I
| believe) Intersil, but Apple (being an 800lb gorilla) has
| asked Intersil not to sell those chips to anyone else. So
| apple won't replace that chip on your motherboard but
| they also won't let anyone else do it.
|
| It's great that apple will replace batteries, but I seem
| to recall there was significant consumer (or government?)
| pressure to offer those replacements. And I would be
| curious if they do that worldwide or only where legally
| required.
|
| But watching Rossman's youtube channel, it is clear that
| repair is about much more than batteries. It's good that
| their products are long lasting, but at some point they
| will all eventually break. Millions of apple products
| must break each year. Apple could help extend the lives
| of those products, saving customers money and cutting
| down on waste. Instead, they seem eager to blame every
| problem on water damage and quote $1200 for repairs which
| could be done for a few dollars. (the first three video
| links make that clear)
|
| I don't see the point in defending Apple here. I am sure
| other companies are bad too, but Apple is the industry
| leader and their failure to embrace repair sets
| expectations across the board. If it was consumer
| pressure that led to their battery replacement program,
| we may be able to apply similar pressures for right to
| repair. But only if we're willing to acknowledge the
| problems with their behavior and push back against them.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1A9y4S60kg
|
| [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RXJP4mxCc
|
| [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVL65qwBGnw
| dann0 wrote:
| I support RTR. I find Rossman annoying and abrasive, but
| he makes good points.
|
| However, we are never going to live in a world of
| repaired devices. Feature development and performance
| increases happen too quickly.
|
| Most people buy new phones every two years and upgrade
| not because the device isn't working or its become
| unusuable.
|
| The better path, the one that Apple is pursuing, is
| improving the reclaim-ability of materials in devices.
|
| I'd rather trade my old laptop in and buy a new one that
| has been made from the reclaimed materials of my old
| laptop, than have my older, slower, less capable one
| repaired.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > Apple laptops [..] objectively last longer than the
| competition.
|
| Massive citation needed. Especially if you're going to
| talk about software support here since MacOS kills
| software support for old hardware long before Windows or
| Linux does.
|
| The comment of "check eBay" isn't very compelling. Check
| it for what? What's your hypothesis and methodology here?
| Especially since you're claiming it's _objectively_
| longer lasting?
| dehrmann wrote:
| > This leads to higher consumer costs and manufactured
| goods filling landfills prematurely.
|
| Citation needed. Apple claims, and I'm fine with taking it
| with a grain of salt, that because batteries aren't
| replaceable like old Nokia phones, they can make the
| battery larger, possibly reducing consumer costs and how
| often batteries are changed. It's not just Apple, either.
| Consumers seem to not care.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| It seems obvious to me that this is true at least with
| laptops. And whatever costs are saved by a 5% larger
| battery must surely be offset by the higher costs of
| replacement when the battery ultimately dies?
|
| I don't know it's so clear to me that this is true that
| I've not felt the need to research it. By all means if
| you have sources to the contrary I'd be happy to read
| them.
|
| To me, we could save significant environmental waste if
| everything we manufactured was made to be repaired. I
| designed several pairs of 3D printed headphones [1] which
| are now the only headphones I wear, and the idea that I
| can replace any part if it breaks seems significant to
| me.
|
| [1] https://github.com/tlalexander/reboot-headphones
| dann0 wrote:
| I love the idea that you have designed and made your own
| headphones. I'm also glad that these work for you.
|
| However, your argument about reducing environmental waste
| is flawed. AirPod, in total, weigh less and use far less
| plastic than your design.
|
| Given the scale of production, the raw material to final
| product path will be short and relatively low impact.
| Your process involves much more packaging, transport and
| middle-man costs.
|
| Feature set wise, your design is also significantly less.
|
| I'm very supportive of people making product that is
| better suited to them, but the idea of this approach
| being somehow less wasteful is completely ridiculous.
| wyre wrote:
| It takes a long time for modern batteries to get to a
| point of unusability and replacement. Yes, Apple and
| others want consumers to purchase the new product and
| that is often the case because of the fast advancement of
| technology. This is worse with android phones because the
| support cycle is much shorter.
|
| I often drop my phone and it's great not having to worry
| about my phone's battery falling out making me lose my
| data.
|
| I'm glad there is a small section of the market with
| brands like Fairphone and Lenovo still offering
| replaceable batteries because it is very important to
| some consumers, but most people dont care or think about
| it at all.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| > most people dont care or think about it at all
|
| This is orthogonal to the question of whether or not the
| practice is environmentally friendly. Most people have
| been buying gasoline for 50 years but that's also causing
| environmental problems. All of these manufactured devices
| take a lot of resources to create. Often "unusability"
| means the operating system has outgrown the hardware, but
| we can easily imagine Apple allowing third party
| operating systems on their unsupported phone and tablet
| devices. This would extend the life of the hardware,
| significantly reduced waste, and lower people's cost of
| living. But even when Apple devices can be fixed for free
| the company will quote exorbitant repair prices and
| suggest the customer replace the device. (See links below
| which I also shared in another comment)
|
| From this we can see that Apple is not making the effort
| to keep old devices functional and they will mislead
| customers about it to sell them a new device. This leads
| to hardware waste and higher costs for consumers.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_SZ4tfLns [2]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1A9y4S60kg [3]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RXJP4mxCc
| [deleted]
| crazygringo wrote:
| Seriously, I never understand the "environmental waste"
| argument as applied to _AirPods_.
|
| The pair of buds weighs a _third_ of a _single_ disposable AA
| battery. There 's less plastic than in an average Chinese
| takeout container.
|
| If you want to complain that they're _expensive_ to replace
| then go ahead. But as soon as anyone brings up _the
| environment_ , give me a break. We're not talking about a 65"
| television that weight 55 pounds, c'mon. Each bud is _four
| grams_ of mass.
|
| If people threw out twenty pairs of AirPods a day, then sure
| let's worry about the environmental issue. But when they
| replace one pair every two to three years? I don't think so.
| slim wrote:
| The airpods are compared to wired ear buds. Once Apple
| removed the jack port, they effectively created the added
| waste which was not there before.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| YMMV.
|
| I'm on my second pair of airpods since launch. (Left pod on
| the previous pair stopped connecting).
|
| As for wired headphones, no pair lasts over 2 years in my
| use. The cord always gets tangled and broken and off to the
| bin they go. No matter how thick, thin or even swappable
| the cord is, I still manage to break them.
|
| It's wireless or silence for me =)
| gnicholas wrote:
| True, although my wired Apple headphones never lasted more
| than two years, which seems to be roughly the useful life
| of AirPods.
| bluescrn wrote:
| It just feels like a disposable $159 product is vastly more
| wasteful than a disposable <$1 AA battery
| Others wrote:
| 1. The parent comment is referring to waste in the
| environmental sense. Nature does not care how expensive the
| trash was--just the volume/composition 2. It's a big
| stretch to call AirPods "disposable" I (and many others)
| keep them for years. In the long run everything is rubbish;
| an expensive electronic device that lasts for years and
| years is not "disposable"
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > Nature does not care how expensive the trash was
|
| No, but the price is often a stand-in for how much
| energy/carbon it took to make the product, which is what
| I always assumed was the case here. I'd love to be
| wrong...
| SilverRed wrote:
| I suspect that the airpods are expensive because of how
| difficult it is to manufacture them rather than material
| use. They probably require the latest factories with time
| consuming manual labor to pack them all in the case and
| glue it up. As well as a thick markup that you $1 battery
| doesn't have.
| hndamien wrote:
| The price is usually more indicative of how much value it
| creates for the buyer, with a lower bound being how much
| it costs the producer to produce.
| JoBrad wrote:
| I think the problem is volume > individual cost. Apple sold
| 60 million AirPods in 2019[1]. That number has surely gone up
| in 2020 and may even be larger in 2021.
|
| 1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-sold-
| nearly-60-million...
| recycledmatt wrote:
| If we use the 4 gram number, 240 million grams is about 264
| tons. In recycling terms, that is really nothing - the
| equivalent of about 10 well packed sea containers or 13
| tractor trailers. Some decent size single facilties can do
| that in a day.
| swiley wrote:
| They're replacing wired headphones which were only thrown out
| after physically breaking and didn't put batteries in
| landfills.
| ddingus wrote:
| I really dislike batteries in this use case and basically
| bought 10 years worth of great wired earbuds for like $50.
| shoo wrote:
| It'd be interesting to know how much mass of stuff needs to
| be dug/refined/shipped/disposed of to produce four grams of
| airpod.
|
| e.g. to produce 1 gram of some metal you might need to mine
| and process 100+ grams of ore
| crazygringo wrote:
| Welcome to manufacturing. How much ore do you think it
| takes to make a roll of aluminum foil that sells for $3?
|
| Obviously it takes more than 4g of raw materials to produce
| AirPods. But it takes extra material to make pretty much
| everything. So comparison-wise, it's still a _tiny, tiny_
| amount next to your TV or even laptop.
| iansinnott wrote:
| I'd just like to chime in to cheer this type of business. My
| airpods were dying within 60 seconds of putting them on and now
| they live again.
|
| (For anyone in Taiwan or Singapore, check out https://www.dr-
| pods.com/. Roughly 40USD replacement fee. No affiliation, I'm
| just a happy customer).
| ashayh wrote:
| Why do we need a separate business for this?
|
| Apple should be made to pay for it.
|
| If anyone finds an Airpod on the street or in trash/landfills,
| they should be able to take it to the nearest Apple store or mail
| it and get 20-40$ back for it.
|
| This should be the law for _all_ and any products, not just
| electronics. Large corporations have cleverly shifted the
| responsibility of recycling on the consumer, while they get to
| reap all the profits and benefits. This was recently well
| explained in a John Oliver segment:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiu9GSOmt8E
| lttlrck wrote:
| I agree that manufacturers should bear responsibility for
| recycling unwanted/returned devices - but why should they be
| forced to pay a bounty for lost/stolen devices?
| qeternity wrote:
| You can't just claim that they've shifted responsibility
| without arguing your point. It's clear you have an axe to
| grind, but at the same time, where do we draw the line of
| individual responsibility?
|
| It's not like we haven't known for decades we were killing the
| planet...and yet here we all are. Why does the average Joe get
| off the hook here?
| fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
| The average Joe has known for decades and the problem
| continues. Ergo, we can't rely on individual action to solve
| it. We need society-scale solutions. Corporate action is the
| only tool civilization has for this.
| KingMachiavelli wrote:
| Generic electronics recycling is very expensive. I had to
| recycle an old 55" rear projection TV and it cost $150. Good
| luck getting the average person to pay that instead of
| disposing of it (illegally).
|
| It would be more efficient and cheaper for companies to
| create a recycling process and include that in the purchase
| price.
| qeternity wrote:
| > It would be more efficient and cheaper for companies to
| create a recycling process and include that in the purchase
| price.
|
| A totally fair point (one that I also happen to agree with)
| but not in the spirit of OP's comment, which suggests some
| sort of moral trickery by the likes of Apple.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Generic electronics recycling is very expensive. I had to
| recycle an old 55 " rear projection TV and it cost $150.
| Good luck getting the average person to pay that instead of
| disposing of it (illegally)._
|
| Blame your municipality.
|
| When I lived in the southwest, the city required the trash
| companies to pick up or recycle EVERYTHING for free. From
| old paint to batteries to giant tube TVs to washing
| machines. Everything, or they didn't get the trash hauling
| contract.
|
| This was to make it as easy as possible for people to
| dispose of things properly, rather than dump them in the
| desert.
|
| If your city doesn't make this happen, it's a failure of
| the city to negotiate the contract properly and allowing
| the trash companies to shift the expense onto the
| homeowners.
| KingMachiavelli wrote:
| That just moves the cost of recycling to the public. The
| public shouldn't have to bear the costs of the negative
| externality of other people's consumption. It is also
| essentially a regressive tax since the wealthy
| consume/dispose of more goods. Also most areas don't have
| a single exclusive trash service (monopoly).
|
| Furthermore, single stream recycling in America, on
| average, is a complete failure. The portion of stuff that
| is actually recycled is very low as much is contaminated
| with non-recyclable materials. I'd either expect such a
| trash/recycling service (as you describe) to be quite
| expensive or actually recycle very little of relative to
| what _could_ be recycled.
|
| If the manufacture's & end consumers of goods were forced
| to confront the cost of disposal at the time of purchase
| it would create a large incentive for companies to make
| products with less waste and products that are easier to
| recycle. The goal isn't to just to recycle everything
| that _currently_ can be recycled but to make everything
| _easy_ to recycle.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _That just moves the cost of recycling to the public_
|
| The public has an interest in a clean desert, since the
| desert surrounding the city was the primary source of
| recreation for the people living there.
|
| _It is also essentially a regressive tax since the
| wealthy consume /dispose of more goods_
|
| Trash fees were based on the assessed value of your home,
| so the wealthy paid more in trash fees than the poor.
|
| _Also most areas don 't have a single exclusive trash
| service (monopoly)._
|
| As noted in the original comment, there were multiple
| trash companies in this city. All had to adhere to the
| same rules.
|
| _single stream recycling in America, on average, is a
| complete failure_
|
| It wasn't single stream. There were four bins. One each
| for garbage, glass, metals, and plastics.
|
| _I 'd either expect such a trash/recycling service (as
| you describe) to be quite expensive or actually recycle
| very little of relative to what could be recycled._
|
| I rented my house, so I couldn't tell you if it was
| expensive, or not. But as I stated above, the price was
| based on the value of the home. I doubt anyone ever
| changed their mind about buying a house because the cost
| of trash disposal in City A was $10/month more than in
| City B.
|
| _If the manufacture 's & end consumers of goods were
| forced to confront the cost of disposal at the time of
| purchase it would create a large incentive for companies
| to make products with less waste and products that are
| easier to recycle._
|
| I agree. But that's not the reality today. We may get
| there 50 years from now, but people don't want to live
| surrounded by 50 years of garbage in order to fulfill a
| social theory.
|
| _The goal isn 't to just to recycle everything that
| currently can be recycled but to make everything easy to
| recycle._
|
| Which was exactly what this did: Make it easy for people
| to recycle everything that could be recycled.
| jrowen wrote:
| IMO, we draw the line based on effectiveness, not idealized
| morality. What's going to be easier: a never-ending campaign
| of trying to educate and motivate millions of different
| average Joes to properly recycle [some item], or simply
| legally preventing those items from being created by a few
| centralized sources (or requiring them to take responsibility
| in some other way)?
|
| Same thing with with 2008 sub-prime mortgage crisis. A lot of
| people will say "well they shouldn't have taken those loans."
| Yes, true, but it would have been much easier if they were
| never allowed to be offered in the first place. Some people
| are against the "save the people from themselves" mentality,
| but it really seems to be a lot more effective and there's
| not a strong argument for allowing practices that are likely
| to result in average Joes taking deleterious actions.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > You can't just claim that they've shifted responsibility
| without arguing your point.
|
| The point itself is enough. Bottle and car battery deposit
| schemes show that the system works to significantly reduce
| littering. Most people take them to the recycling on their
| own and those who can't be bothered always get picked up by
| people.
|
| A 10-20EUR deposit on phones, a 5EUR deposit on small scale
| stuff like chargers and earphones and a 1EUR deposit on
| batteries would _definitely_ get electronics stuff back into
| circulation.
| culopatin wrote:
| You're looking at it from the wrong end. These guys saw an
| opportunity and opened a business. This is capitalism, it's all
| around us.
| seriousquestion wrote:
| I've heard, anecdotally, of people losing their airpods often. I
| haven't yet, but curious how common that problem is?
| hughrr wrote:
| Everyone I know has them. I haven't heard of any being lost.
| samatman wrote:
| I lost my first pair just recently, in four years of having
| them, after a redeye flight.
|
| Knock on wood it'll be the only time!
| agency wrote:
| I've gotten close. One thing I have noticed is when I drop the
| case on the floor it's not at all uncommon for it to open and
| for one or both of the buds to fly out. One time this happened
| to me while I was in the security line at the airport and I had
| to awkwardly back out of the line and look around but luckily I
| found the errant pod.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _I 've heard, anecdotally, of people losing their airpods
| often. I haven't yet, but curious how common that problem is?_
|
| It must be a thing, since Apple lets you use your devices to
| find your missing AirPods, and they are even part of the FindMe
| network.
|
| I've sometimes wondered how many AirPods have been flushed down
| toilets around the world. Even if only .001% of AirPods meet
| their demise this way, considering the number of AirPods sold,
| it must be a pretty good number.
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| I flushed the right ear of my Airpods pro. I bought a new
| pair the next day because I use them all day for video calls
| because they're so convenient.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| What did everyone in the video call hear in the right audio
| channel?
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruCsYGL3QlY&ab_channel=Lesl
| i...
| easton wrote:
| The Find My network stuff isn't coming until the fall. Right
| now they only update their location when connected to your
| phone, which is basically useless.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| I'm mostly losing them in my bed since the Airpods are a solid,
| partner-compatible way to fall asleep to music.
|
| My biggest annoyance with the Airpods Pro is that no one sells
| custom molds. The right one fits with the small plug, but none
| of the three sizes that ship with the Airpods seem to be
| compatible with my left ear, it's extremely loose. In any case
| it's uncomfortable walking with them out on the streets or
| driving with my bike simply because I'm always afraid they will
| randomly fall off and get lost or destroyed.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| This looks great! I just forwarded the link to a friend of mine,
| that was complaining to me, this morning, about a pair of
| original AirPods that had a bum battery.
| TheRealSteel wrote:
| Great idea, would love to use this for my dead first gen pair if
| could.
|
| It doesn't mention what country or countries this is available
| in, so I'm guessing it's America only?
| [deleted]
| system2 wrote:
| I love my Tozo T6, screw apple. $25 and I have better sounding
| way more cheaper product. I wouldn't care at all if my $25
| headsets fail after a year or two. I'd get 6 pairs instead of one
| Apple. My other bluetooth earbuds worked over 2 years and had no
| battery problem until I lost them.
|
| Stop throwing money at Apple.
| BrissyCoder wrote:
| Second this. I also don't understand how people get these
| things to stay in their ears... I must have large or weirdly
| shaped earholes or something.
| smoldesu wrote:
| So you're paying $60 to get your earbuds replaced, but you can't
| use the service if they have any external/cosmetic damage.
| Something here doesn't add up, is this just because Airpods don't
| have replaceable batteries?
| flatiron wrote:
| Exactly. If the user could just do it you wouldn't need this
| service.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > can't use the service if they have any external/cosmetic
| damage
|
| My guess is that you're not getting your own airpods back, but
| someone else's. Quick turnaround that way and I think people
| want that for a product like this.
|
| Positioning in Miami isn't ideal for turnaround, somewhere more
| central or a courier hub (Memphis or Louisville) would make
| more sense.
|
| As repair-turnaround time is no longer an issue, and Airpods
| are small, they can fedex them to a low-cost country for
| repair. Miami has tons of connections to S. America, so maybe
| somewhere there.
|
| Just a Fedex SmallBox holds a couple hundred airpods (they're
| 0.75inches if they were a rectangle, and smallbox is 200sqin),
| so they can really take low-cost to an extreme. If China, well,
| the batteries were going to be shipped from there anyway and
| that's most of the bulk anyway, but cylinders do pack better.
|
| Here's a video of the whole process:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE9aB5aPbMM
|
| Many of these steps are scalable - could pre-tin battery leads,
| find a better solvent than alcohol to soften adhesive, custom
| heat protection cap rather than kitchen foil, dip metal cap in
| ultrasonic solvent bath, etc.
|
| Maybe they have some domestic gigworkers in case they get
| really busy, but otherwise, save that dollar.
| ylyn wrote:
| > My guess is that you're not getting your own airpods back,
| but someone else's.
|
| I guess reading the linked site before commenting on it is no
| longer in fashion.
|
| They clearly state that they send you a new (or refurbished
| rather) pair before you send in your old pair.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I'm not wrong, just that their turnaround time is negative.
| Which makes other speedups a good idea to minimize their
| already long float time.
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Yes, your alternative is to buy new AirPods from Apple at $70
| each ($140 for a pair) when the battery life becomes a problem.
| jaimex2 wrote:
| Fricken Apple and their customers.
|
| So these things aren't even 5 years old, expensive and already
| going into bins? It's hard not to facepalm everytime I hear about
| Apple user problems.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-07-12 23:03 UTC)