[HN Gopher] Doctors Might Have Been Focusing on the Wrong Asthma...
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Doctors Might Have Been Focusing on the Wrong Asthma Triggers
Author : aliasEli
Score : 60 points
Date : 2021-07-11 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| belltaco wrote:
| I wonder how much impact the reduced pollution due to reduced
| traffic during the lockdowns and increased remote work later had
| on the study subjects, even if they were indoors.
| kurthr wrote:
| I came to post just this. Rubber is a pretty common allergen.
| Wearing masks (especially N95) when out/about also probably
| helps a lot.
| MengerSponge wrote:
| https://publicintegrity.org/environment/the-invisible-hazard...
|
| I imagine that keeping schoolchildren home from those schools
| would substantially help their respiratory health.
| deregulateMed wrote:
| No traffic and no bullying.
|
| If kids can learn by themselves, this could change everything.
|
| But currently my kid likes unboxing videos and nothing else.
| School is forced variety and social skills..
| edejong wrote:
| There has been the hypothesis that it's actually bad ventilation
| in schools and offices causing the asthma related problems. One
| thing to check before choosing a school for the kids.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I have had asthma my entire life, and it definitely flares up
| with airborne irritants.
|
| There has been awesome citizen science work going on helping
| people understand the direct link between anything that emits
| smoke and asthma attacks:
| https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2017.1315
|
| They even found that parents waiting to pick up kids at schools
| with their ICE engines running increased PM2.5 inside the entire
| building by orders of magnitude.
|
| This data helped the kids teach their parents to stop their
| engines when waiting outside the school in order to help their
| asthmatic classmates.
|
| The transition to EV is going to have a positive impact on
| people's health and make city life better.
| ADSSDA wrote:
| Isn't most PM 2.5 pollution produced by brake pad and tire
| wear, which is made worse by EVs due to their weight?
| deeviant wrote:
| > which is made worse by EVs due to their weight?
|
| What a ridiculous supposition.
|
| First the weight difference is not that huge, second EV's use
| regenerative breaking for a huge portion of their breaking
| spectrum bypassing break pads entirely.
| briefcomment wrote:
| Idk if you tried looking at any evidence when making your
| claim, but this clearly supports the gp and contradicts
| your statement [1] [2].
|
| [1]https://www.ridef2.com/blog-del-direttore-ridef/will-
| electri...
|
| [2]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1
| 3522...
| deeviant wrote:
| Idk, if you bothered to read the study that you are
| pointing to in your coup de grace, you'd would realize
| your cited sources admit that EV's create no more
| particulate pollution than ICE engines. Your cited study
| actually states that EVs _do_ reduce particulate
| pollution but only by a couple percent, which is opposite
| of "creating more" for those who prefer evidence based
| positions.
|
| It's almost as if regenerative breaking reduces break
| wear and compensates for the marginal increase weight as
| many other people have already pointed out?
| briefcomment wrote:
| The original GP's post had two points:
|
| - most PM 2.5 pollution is produced by brake pad and tire
| wear
|
| - which [i.e. PM 2.5 pollution produced by brake pad and
| tire wear] is made worse by EVs due to their weight
|
| These are direct quotes from my links:
|
| - "A large fraction (50-85% and up to 90%) of traffic
| generated PM10 and PM2,5 is not due to the exhaust
| emissions by the motor, but rather to non-exhaust
| emissions (brake wear, road wear, tyre wear and road dust
| resuspension)"
|
| - "A positive relationship exists between vehicle weight
| and non-exhaust emissions."... "Electric vehicles are 24%
| heavier than their conventional counterparts."
| [deleted]
| thomasmeeks wrote:
| What's your point? That we should continue to favor gas
| cars over EVs? That cars should be taken off the road
| entirely? Something else?
| briefcomment wrote:
| My point was to defend ADSSDA's post against deeviant's
| claims.
|
| Personally, I would like light EVs.
| TheParkShark wrote:
| So en EV without a battery? They didn't make them weigh
| more just because they wanted to.
| hattmall wrote:
| I think it's just that EVs will not reduce asthma caused
| by small particle air pollution. They may in fact make it
| worse.
| askvictor wrote:
| > "A positive relationship exists between vehicle weight
| and non-exhaust emissions."... "Electric vehicles are 24%
| heavier than their conventional counterparts."
|
| Both are true. However, without factoring in decreased
| friction-brake usage in EVs (due to regenerative
| braking), this point is meaningless or deceptive.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Brake. The word is brake.
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| Both those sources are the same paper, fyi. Found a PDF
| here: http://www.soliftec.com/NonExhaust%20PMs.pdf
|
| And the claim is a bit dubious, imo. It looks like
| they're counting "resuspension" (kicking up existing
| settled PM2.5 in the wake) as a source.
| briefcomment wrote:
| The first link cites multiple papers, including the one
| in the second link. Looks like the study that mentions
| "resuspension" is a different study[1] than the one in
| the second link.
|
| [1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/
| S13522...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| People tend to assume that gasoline engines don't produce
| PM2.5, but that's apparently wrong. I saw some seemingly
| legit report that claims tire and brakes create about 10% of
| the PM2.5 pollution.
|
| EV and Hybrid cars have regen braking which reduces brake pad
| wear. I don't know about PM2.5 but hybrids also emit much
| less NOx than straight gasoline cars.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| If the ev has regenerative braking, the brakes actually last
| much longer than in ICE cars. Not sure how tires are affected
| but I'd imagine they do have a shorter life, and I'm not sure
| how the longer brake life balances with (probably) shorter
| tire life from a pollution perspective
| bamboozled wrote:
| I've apparently never had asthma in my life, until I moved to
| Sydney, Australia for a while.
|
| It's a city which _loves_ cars.
|
| I used to cycle about 20 minutes to the office, the view was
| beautiful but the traffic was horrendous. I used to wheeze and
| struggle with breathing a lot more than usual. The doctor
| diagnosed me with "seasonal asthma" and gave me a ventolin
| prescription, which I've never felt the need to refill since
| leaving.
|
| The doctor told me there was some phenomenon which made the air
| pollution worse, something about the reflection of the water
| from the harbor ? I wish I could remember what it was called.
|
| It's anecdotal but that was my experience.
| robbiep wrote:
| Where did you live previously?
|
| Australia has one of the highest rates of asthma in the
| world, with higher rates in rural and regional areas than the
| cities. Sydney also has a high rate of moulds which can be
| triggers due to its often humid environment and poor building
| standards (cf Melbourne for example where houses are more
| ruggedised)
| elric wrote:
| Irceline publishes PM2.5 stats for Belgium. Here's [1] a pretty
| little chart with the annual mean PM2.5 concentration. If you
| switch between 2020 and 2019, the difference seems pretty small.
| Same for PM10 and Black Carbon. If the pandemic had a big impact
| on air quality, that effect seems to have skipped Belgium at
| least. It's a shame there's no similar dashboard for viruses and
| allergens.
|
| [1] https://www.irceline.be/en/air-
| quality/measurements/particul...
| briefcomment wrote:
| I wonder what the PM1 and under figures would look like. I
| recall seeing some analysis stating that the bulk of car
| related PM was smaller than PM1.
| elric wrote:
| That's pretty much what the black carbon component indicates.
| philjohn wrote:
| I certainly noticed this - over the last year I've gone from
| using reliever inhalers several times a week to not needing them
| for months.
|
| I did also start a new medication, Montelukast, around the time
| of the first lockdown, so it could conceivably be due to that in
| my case - but not having a chest infection at all for the last 18
| months whereas I used to get one a year or so has been lovely.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Do you think this was largely due to wearing a mask? Whether a
| mask would block a virus particle is debatable but even cheap
| masks are effective against larger particulates such as pollen,
| dust, dander, etc.
|
| When I was a kid my neighbor always wore a mask while he was
| cutting his lawn. He had asthma that was pretty easily
| triggered and he said it made a big difference.
| philjohn wrote:
| That's a good question - I didn't actually start wearing a
| mask until a little later, when the mask mandate came into
| force in the UK. Our first lockdown was definitely pretty
| severe and there were much fewer cars on the road here, but
| that has gone away, so you could indeed be onto something.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| * I totally read this backwards sorry. But I'll keep the
| relevant part about different steroid and my mistake below.
|
| maybe also check out a Ciclesonide inhaler (alvesco, another
| steroid) which has helped me a lot in my cardio. I can get that
| last 5-10% into my lungs and don't have those tiny wheezes at
| peak respiration.
|
| And I'll make a note of that drug for the future thanks!
|
| -- I got on steroids last year. Had huge increase in use of
| albuterol over the last 2 years. For like a decade i barely
| used anything, inhaler sat in the bottom of my climbing bag.
|
| I'm in Denver, really bad pollution and the fire smoke is
| literally unlivable at its worst.
| tejtm wrote:
| PSA: Montelukast (Singlar) can slowly and subtlety "change your
| mind"
|
| [0] https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-
| availability/fda-r...
| philjohn wrote:
| That's interesting - another asthma medication I was on as a
| child made me an absolute horror as well - wonder if there's
| some relation in the mechanism of action.
| elric wrote:
| Anecdata: I took Montelukast for 3 years to help with my
| allergies & asthma. Worked like a charm. Except for the fact
| that it made me _really_ irritable. I was angry and down all
| the time. And I didn 't really notice it until I stopped
| taking the tablets. That's when I started to put two and two
| together. I spoke to my friends about it, and they agreed
| that I suddenly seemed much less murdery.
| softwarebouwer wrote:
| Thanks for that link, I've read something about that before
| but haven't thought about it since I've been prescribed it
| myself since March.
|
| For me since then most of the symptoms in the list on that
| page have actually improved. The only thing my doctor (in The
| Netherlands) warned me about was the bad/vivid dream part,
| before Montelukast I could hardly remember dreaming but now I
| do almost daily (but I am also sleeping much better).
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| I come from a part of the US with fairly severe air pollution
| (2cd or 3rd worst in country). And asthma is a huge problem
| there, much so more than elsewhere. It is fairly obvious that the
| air pollution is the cause of the problem. Perhaps we should
| differentiate between the causes of the disease, and the hazards
| that trigger asthma attacks.
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(page generated 2021-07-11 23:01 UTC)