[HN Gopher] Kerberos: Open-Source Video Surveillance
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Kerberos: Open-Source Video Surveillance
Author : Keyb0ardWarr10r
Score : 113 points
Date : 2021-07-11 11:13 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (kerberos.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (kerberos.io)
| clipradiowallet wrote:
| Choosing a name like "Kerberos" for a new project will make it
| very difficult to search for anything related to it. Kerberos is
| an old concept in many operating systems with 8.4 million google
| search results(and none of them are related to this video
| product). Pick a new name IMO.
| aaronchall wrote:
| It's interesting that the cached summary of the `Kerberos`
| article on Yahoo search has the text of the disambiguated
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerberos_(protocol), but it's now
| a disambiguation page that still doesn't include _this_
| Kerberos.
|
| The biggest problem with this name clash for the creators is
| that help and documentation will be hard to find, which will
| stymie adoption.
|
| They also lose potential good will with the rest of the tech
| community.
| foodstances wrote:
| Does it support Kerberos authentication?
| leetrout wrote:
| It's like they didn't even Google the name first.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| It's surprising that anybody working on something related to
| security and computers would have to Google that name.
|
| But yeah, goes to show that Windows is not absolutely
| omnipresent.
| spijdar wrote:
| To add on to this -- the about page acknowledges how "many are
| confused" about the name but effectively brushes it off because
| "kerberos is a good name", then "it's not actually kerberos,
| but kerberos.io", followed by "it's a mouthful so we'll just
| say kerberos" (and the HN submission just says kerberos)
|
| I feel like the name really might be an impediment to the
| project. Not that people can't ever re-use names, but this
| really feels like a pointless impediment to discoverability.
| rjzzleep wrote:
| It actually is a really good name. But yeah, I had the same
| confusion.
| dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
| It's a name that fits the project description well, but
| it's a very bad name for an open source security-related
| project. They could have as well named it OpenCV.
| vhodges wrote:
| A better name for a multi-headed security system would be
| Cerberus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus
| rjzzleep wrote:
| That might be something they would be willing to change
| their name to. It's also a commonly used name although
| probably nowhere near as bad to google as Kerberus.
| srswtf123 wrote:
| I think Siemans has that under the Cerberus Pyrotronics
| brand.
| chedabob wrote:
| Already taken by this Android app though
| https://www.cerberusapp.com/
| woleium wrote:
| that's abandoned now I think
| pjc50 wrote:
| Same dog, different language.
| wyager wrote:
| It's pronounced about the same in either case. "Cerberus"
| in Latin is pronounced "Kerberus", just like "cent" is
| actually pronounced "Kent".
| vhodges wrote:
| Thanks, that I did not know.
| pjc50 wrote:
| All the Greek patheon have dual Latin/Greek names.
| Mercury/Hermes etc.
| Nzen wrote:
| Or they could make it a multi-part name, like Bronze
| Kerberos. That way, they can keep the connotation they want,
| but _
| austincheney wrote:
| I wonder if MIT trademarked Kerberos.
|
| https://web.mit.edu/kerberos/
| spinax wrote:
| US: quick search says Yes, at one time however it's was
| abandoned in 1994: https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield
| ?f=doc&state=4807:gm...
|
| Current US trademark holder is a financial group: https://t
| msearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4807:gm...
|
| Edit: it appears the USPTO has sent a notice refusing
| activation on the above due to requirements not met if I
| read this correctly: https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=887
| 58894&caseType=SERIAL_...
| Nzen wrote:
| Or they could make it a multi-part name, like Bronze
| Kerberos. That way, they can keep the connotation they want,
| but avoid the problems of squatting on a used name.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It's a uniquely bad name as Kerberos is used by almost every
| working adult, but hardly anyone understands it.
|
| Usurping a vaguely familiar and confusing thing that is
| prevalent seems to be a bad choice.
| _huayra_ wrote:
| They could just call it kerbaros instead to clear up the
| confusion. /s
|
| This reminds me of the way the word for "today" in French is
| aujourd'hui. "hui" meant "today" in old French, but it sounds
| like oui ("yes"). If you split it apart, aujourd'hui means
| something like "of the day of today".
|
| "of the open source video surveillance software of Kerberos"
| Santosh83 wrote:
| Much ado about nothing. We're adults and tech literate people
| and we can juggle more than one conflicting identifier in our
| heads considering we deal with stuff like C++ routinely.
|
| If the project is technically good and they market it well,
| people will get used to the name and learn to distinguish
| between this and the auth protocol.
| collsni wrote:
| Java and JavaScript
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| We are adults and we can deal with being sneezed on,
| therefore lets get sneezed on as much as possible for no
| reason at all!
| Wistar wrote:
| The documentation introduction is where the name confusion is
| mentioned.
|
| https://doc.kerberos.io/
| wigster wrote:
| just rename as Fluffy
| mirekrusin wrote:
| BigBro?
| woleium wrote:
| Or Argus
| throw0101a wrote:
| For anyone wondering:
|
| > _Argus Panoptes (All-seeing; Ancient Greek: Argos
| Panoptes) or Argos (Ancient Greek: Argos) is a many-eyed
| giant in Greek mythology. The figure is known for having
| generated the saying "the eyes of Argus", as in to be
| "followed by the eyes of Argus", or "trailed by" them, or
| "watched by" them, etc._
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_Panoptes
|
| > _Argus Panoptes or Argos was a hundred-eyed giant in
| Greek mythology. He was a giant, the son of Arestor,
| whose name "Panoptes" meant "the all-seeing one". He was
| a servant of Hera; one of the tasks that were given to
| him was to slay the fearsome monster Echidna, wife of
| Typhon, which he successfully completed._
|
| * https://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Creatures/Argus_Pa
| nopte...
| indymike wrote:
| Changing the name would be excellent marketing.
| daniellarusso wrote:
| Well done.
| ulzeraj wrote:
| I had a very similar moment a few months ago when I found out
| there is some kind of docker management UI named Heimdall,
| which is the name of another Kerberos implementation.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| k6s? Maybe!
| synergy20 wrote:
| where is the code? I only see open source client, but the server
| side(nvr etc) are really the key.
| vdfs wrote:
| Anyone know how this compare to MotionEyeOS? MotionEye is great
| but have some limitations like no audio, no way to separate
| users/camera permissions
| bsenftner wrote:
| > Single camera per instance (e.g. One Docker container per
| camera). One camera per Docker instance? This is going to eat up
| hardware resources like Fat Albert.
| daniellarusso wrote:
| How does Fat Albert eat up hardware resources?
|
| Also, don't you need to know the specs of the individual
| container instances before determining it will be resource
| starved on the host?
|
| I have an off-the-shelf CCTV DVR that supports 4k with up to 8
| cameras, but it struggles with more than 4.
| bsenftner wrote:
| I write video security software, and the support logic to
| manage a single camera is quite low. Whereas the supporting
| infrastructure for this conglomeration is quite large. I know
| this field of tech intimately, yet when I see projects like
| this I ask myself "what are they doing with all this
| infrastructure? why?"
| okamiueru wrote:
| What kind of hardware resource would this eat up? Maybe on non-
| linux where docker isn't as efficient?
|
| There is next to zero extra memory overhead on Linux, as the
| static parts are shared. Computational overhead is also linear
| with work, which would mostly be the case regardless.
| daniellarusso wrote:
| The other cool thing, to me, is you can keep adding cameras
| and do not have to replace hardware, just add more.
| bsenftner wrote:
| It's not just the use of Docker, the infrastructure they're
| using is heavier than necessary. Quite a bit.
| mrweasel wrote:
| I've noticed that software more and more being designed that
| way. Multi-tenancy is out the window, just run multiple
| instances. For some applications it's certainly easier, but as
| with so many other things it's overused.
| acd wrote:
| Kerberos name is a security ticket protocol/server.
| millzlane wrote:
| This post couldn't have come at a more perfect time. I recently
| got a call from a client who couldn't access their Unifi Cameras
| remotely anymore. Apparently the EOL for the self-hosted Unifi
| Video was was announced last year.
|
| And the replacement solution is no longer self-hosted and is a
| hardware solution that costs a few hundred dollars to keep the
| system up to date.
| tw04 wrote:
| Careful with that. Ubiquiti doesn't support ONVIF (industry
| standard for triggering motion alerts) and stopped supporting
| RTSP on their new stuff IIRC.
|
| You're going to want to do a ton of testing if you're keeping
| those cameras.
| counternotions wrote:
| Frigate is another open-source object detection engine that works
| amazingly well with Home Assistant:
| https://github.com/blakeblackshear/frigate
| dementik wrote:
| Frigate is just wonderful.
|
| Coupled with Coral TPU it manages to perform pretty well on
| Raspi4.
| ancount wrote:
| Does anyone have some outdoor camera recommendations?
|
| The ones I had were very low resolution, I could hardly recognize
| myself in video.
| linsomniac wrote:
| I ended up getting these Montavue 4k cameras largely because
| they have really good low light performance. They are ONVIF and
| work with blueiris, which is good because their NVR sucks for
| use on a mobile phone.
|
| The hardware is the same as many other cameras, HIKvision also
| has this hardware but I couldn't get it working with blueiris
| or the HIKvision NVR.
|
| The cameras are indeed amazing at low light. I felt like that
| was a good feature, and maybe that was misguided. But I can be
| fairly dark out, looking out the window, and the cameras are
| still in color mode and look like it's daytime. Think: Google
| Night Vision camera mode.
|
| I wish there were a better mobile experience though, that's the
| only way we use them. Both blueiris and Montavue apps suck.
| Ubiquiti has the best in class here, but I've been burned by
| them too many times now. This replaces a unusable Unifi system.
|
| For remote access to BlueIris.i plan to use ZeroTier.
| jzawodn wrote:
| I'm happy with Amcrest cameras, both for indoor and outdoor
| use. They have some very affordable 4k options with PoE if that
| matters to you.
| acidburnNSA wrote:
| I love their cameras but the app is so abysmal. Whenever I
| connect over vpn to access the cams remotely it goes
| effectively into a boot loop. I hate it. I keep reporting the
| crashes on android but no updates come.
| throw0101a wrote:
| How do you power your outdoor cameras? Just drill a hole for
| a PoE cable?
| acidburnNSA wrote:
| That's what I do.
| bsenftner wrote:
| I've come full circle with Amcrest. I work in video
| surveillance, and over time Amcrest just continue to work. I
| think of them like the consumer priced Axis. As far as their
| app, ditch it - they are ONVIF compatible. I'm currently
| using mine with both a rebranded hikvision NVR and a home
| brewed NVR I'm coding myself, plus a few RaspberryPIs running
| VLC in different rooms.
| deadbunny wrote:
| The Hook Up youtube channel has a number of review videos of
| different types of cameras in different price ranges with lots
| of examples.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MoynorQ3y0
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJX8CKR5KI
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRgZWb5zx0
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXD82epDPE4
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Interesting! I was just setting up Shinobi but this looks really
| good too.
|
| I don't like the idea of having one docker per camera though..
| But I'll give it a try.
| Johnyma22 wrote:
| I tried Shinobi but gave up, I even spent some time on bug
| reports/issues/with their community.
|
| My major issue with Shinobi was each stream is processed by
| ffmpeg and I had 10+ cameras all requiring 10% cpu each to
| handle any object/motion detection. The cameras had
| object/motion detection functionality built in so I figured it
| made more sense to just do that work on the camera and not on
| CPU. I also tried offloading some jobs to GPU and that was not
| working properly, so I tried Nvidia Jetson and still no dice.
| stemc43 wrote:
| ive also spent entirely way too much time trying to get
| shinobi and zoneminder to work and had to give up.
|
| xeoma is paid but runs in docker on linux just fine
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| The problem with offloading that to the camera is that onvif
| doesn't seem to have a standard way to report this. I only
| need motion detection on one cam so it wasn't an issue.
|
| But good point, I wonder how Kerberos does this
| Keyb0ardWarr10r wrote:
| It doesn't use the builtin ONVIF motion detection but
| instead processes every keyframe and does motion detection
| between the keyframes. So not every frame is being decoded
| to process, but enough to perform motion capture.
|
| There's some interesting work w.r.t motion detection that
| doesn't actually require decoding the packets but rather
| looks at the motion vectors to estimate motion. That would
| save up a lot of resources..
| cvwright wrote:
| > motion detection that doesn't actually require decoding
| the packets but rather looks at the motion vectors to
| estimate motion.
|
| There's a very cool package for the Raspberry Pi that
| does this: https://github.com/billw2/pikrellcam
| eeZah7Ux wrote:
| docker pull kerberos/kerberos
|
| Should I trust a whole image from docker hub with access to a
| security camera?
|
| No. I'd rather trust a Linux distribution to do a reproducible
| build.
| Keyb0ardWarr10r wrote:
| build from source then https://github.com/kerberos-
| io/opensource
| thom wrote:
| Any recommendations for a system like this that runs on old
| smartphones as cameras?
| Atlas-Marbles wrote:
| I've used an old phone with kerberos. You'll need an "IP cam"
| app that runs an mjpg or RTSP stream from the phone, then put
| the stream url in kerberos. I run kerberos on a Pi.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Interesting. I've been building a home camera network and the
| state of this space (the nvr software) is pretty abysmal:
| zoneminder, blueiris, shinobi, etc... gonna take this for a spin.
|
| This is a terrible name for an open source project though.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| The name is a giant red flag. If someone doesn't care about a
| giant name conflict of a very uncommon word with a very common
| project, then they just brush it off with rationalizations, it
| makes me wonder what other reasonable things they are willing
| to ignore.
| aaronchall wrote:
| Ah, the reasonableness signaling heuristic.
| edgyquant wrote:
| It would be a perfect name for a surveillance system in a
| dystopian government though
| boraoztunc wrote:
| a system in "The Ministry of Surveillance"
| edoceo wrote:
| Ministry of Peace
| bitwize wrote:
| I'd suggest Argus, the name of the hundred-eyed giant tasked to
| watch over Io for Hera, as a replacement name.
| riffic wrote:
| Generally I downvote name griping here because it's both an
| inevitable topic and the ultimate in bikeshedding, but this is
| one of those rare exceptions. Link to the "other" kerberos (a
| very well-referenced and utilized authentication protocol and
| implementation) in case anyone's curious what this is being
| driven by:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerberos_(protocol)
| tw04 wrote:
| Other than the windows dependence, what's the issue with
| blueiris? I've tried the others you've listed as well and found
| it to be the most robust by quite a bit. I wish the web
| interface were better, and having to use a reverse proxy or vpn
| to get mobile access is also... meh.
| thedougd wrote:
| I'm surprised more video surveillance software does not leverage
| the APIs of the cameras. Network cameras have built in motion,
| object, line cross, and facial detection. The work is done in the
| camera and the APIs allow you to subscribe through call backs or
| server side events. You could support event recording for at
| least a half dozen cameras with a raspberry pi.
|
| I've prototyped this but it ended up on my shelf of incomplete
| hobbies. Given that many camera brands are white label products
| made by the same manufacturer, I would think you could cover
| several brands with just the first API client implementation. Or
| maybe this is also covered with onvif?
| abstractbarista wrote:
| I believe some like Blue Iris do support this, but other open-
| source stuff like ZoneMinder is not as close. ZM does support
| controlling many PTZ cameras, which is really fun. :)
| tw04 wrote:
| That is all part of ONVIF.
| kristianpaul wrote:
| How this could be named open source but actually be licensed
| under a creative commons non comercial license (BY-NC-SA 4.0)
|
| https://doc.kerberos.io/opensource/license/
| remram wrote:
| Seems like v3 is MIT (but not yet released):
| https://github.com/kerberos-io/opensource/blob/master/LICENS...
| fooblat wrote:
| It does seem like an odd choice given that Creative Commons
| specifically recommends against it[0]. That alone would make me
| unlikely to use this project.
|
| 0. https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-
| comm...
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