[HN Gopher] Why Japan Celebrates Christmas with KFC (2016)
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Why Japan Celebrates Christmas with KFC (2016)
Author : surround
Score : 68 points
Date : 2021-07-10 16:39 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| Black101 wrote:
| > How a fast-food marketing campaign turned into a widespread
| Yuletide tradition for millions.
|
| Christmas here too was a marketing campaign gone wrong.
| xu_ituairo wrote:
| How so? And where's here?
| Black101 wrote:
| In the USA... what a spending frenzy/waste it is... Not very
| eco-friendly.
| joejacket wrote:
| Much of the US retail market plans their whole year around
| Christmas. The percentage of their yearly income is from that
| season (for online retailers Black Friday, Cyber Monday) and
| is usually what gets them through the slower rest of the
| year.
| tpmx wrote:
| Pretty early case of marketing.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas#Introduction_of_the_...
| Black101 wrote:
| I'm talking about modern Christmas.. with Santa, gifts,
| decorations, etc...
| pelasaco wrote:
| I have some Japanese friends that never could explain me this
| tradition. I always thought that it was introduced by some
| American navy/soldiers that while stationed in Japan wanted to
| celebrate Christmas, and the only western restaurant in the
| city/region that they could find, was a KFC.. I still think my
| theory/urban legend is way better ;)
| JasonFruit wrote:
| That's brilliant marketing: find a cultural event that doesn't
| have established traditions in an area, and fill the void with
| your product. I wonder what might be some cultural vacuums
| waiting to be filled in the United States... I suppose one
| example might be how big Cinco de Mayo is in the US, and its
| association with margaritas.
| xwdv wrote:
| With Juneteenth becoming a fresh new national holiday in the
| United States, the day is now ripe for filling a marketing
| void. Perfect time for KFC to jump in.
| cunthorpe wrote:
| Oh no you didn't
| smhost wrote:
| Maybe micro-celebrity personality cults, where micro-
| communities develop a design language that only has meaning
| within their bubble, and they practice consumer rituals around
| their idol's birthday, for example.
| mbg721 wrote:
| If your marketing is already centered around a white-bearded
| Western guy in a suit, making the connection to Santa Claus
| seems almost natural in hindsight.
| mkl95 wrote:
| > While millions do celebrate Christmas with KFC, others in Japan
| treat it as a romantic holiday similar to Valentine's Day, and
| couples mark the occasion with dinner in upscale restaurants. For
| other Japanese families, Christmas is acknowledged but not
| celebrated in any particular way.
|
| It seems strange at first, but it makes sense when you consider
| only about 1.5% of Japanese people are Christians. Christmas as
| we know it in countries with a Christian majority doesn't mean
| much to them.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I'm pretty sure this is objectively not true. Christmas is only
| a religious holiday if you're already religious, and even then,
| you're ignoring the fact that today's "Christmas" is mostly an
| assemblage of traditions "borrowed" from other earlier
| religions.
|
| To a lot of people (and I tentatively claim _most_ people,
| probably) Christmas is either a mostly or entirely secular
| holiday, celebrating family and the coming of lighter days
| after the winter solstice, the southern hemisphere
| notwithstanding.
| netrus wrote:
| I never realized that Christmas is right after the winter
| equinox (or never connected these two dates), but it makes a
| lot of sense, thank you very much!
| brudgers wrote:
| In the northern hemisphere it follows the winter
| _solstice._
|
| In the other half of the world it's the start of summer.
| naniwaduni wrote:
| Note that other half of the world has like, 15% of the
| humans.
| brudgers wrote:
| Getting close to a billion souls.
| quesera wrote:
| You might also be interested to learn that Easter is a
| fertility festival!
|
| Christianity was a hard sell back a couple thousand years
| ago, so it was often simpler to just coopt existing pagan
| holidays.
| anjbe wrote:
| > Easter is a fertility festival!
|
| That's a common myth. In most languages (English being an
| exception), Easter's name is derived from Passover. Eggs
| and bunnies are a later development, but through medieval
| Christian traditions, not pagan fertility connections.
|
| Much is made of the fact that in English, the name
| "Easter" comes from Eostre, a pagan goddess. But that's
| accepted to have happened because the holiday falls
| within the month Germanics named after her. Easter isn't
| co-opting Eostre worship any more than Good Friday co-
| opts worship of Frigg.
| mkl95 wrote:
| You are missing my point. Japan is a highly secular country
| nowadays, but Christianity in particular was banned and
| persecuted until not so long ago. Christmas means nothing to
| them, so the fact they celebrate "Christmas" with KFC is not
| very interesting.
|
| My country is supposedly overwhelmingly Christian, but most
| people including myself don't care much about Christmas in a
| traditional sense anymore. In fact I have celebrated
| Christmas with Asian food a few times. So you would expect a
| non Christian country to care even less.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > It seems strange at first
|
| Why would it seem strange at first that a country that isn't
| very Christian would not celebrate Christmas? Why would they?
| mkl95 wrote:
| The article doesn't mention it. So it makes everything seem a
| bit bizarre, but the thing that amazes me the most is that
| they celebrate Christmas at all.
| robjan wrote:
| The commercial version of Christmas is "celebrated" across
| East Asia. It's treated pretty much as a Hallmark Holiday.
| axaxs wrote:
| It's worth noting that KFC in other countries is often better
| than the greasy mess we typically find in the US. Same with
| McDonald's in my experience as well.
| ravenstine wrote:
| When I lived in New Zealand for a year, one day my friends at
| school wanted to sneak out during lunch to go to KFC (which
| there they market as "kiwi for chicken"). This was something
| you'd not hear American high school students say, at least in
| California. However, it was significantly better tasting. Not
| mind blowing or anything, but pretty decent.
| h2odragon wrote:
| I do not understand "KFC" as a business model; in the southern
| USA they have competition (every gas station has fried
| chicken), and the KFC chain seems to be dedicated to providing
| the worst food and the worst service in the market.
|
| For the last 20 years or more, the KFC nearest to me has been
| known to the locals as a place to avoid at all costs. They've
| had 2 periods of revival, in the month after new owners took
| over, neither lasted more than a month or so. The default state
| is under cooked food, high prices, and shitty service. They
| have a policy of shorting orders and shorting change; it must
| be policy, random error would happen in the customers' favor
| sometimes.
|
| I'd suspect they were a cover for some illegal activity, but if
| they are its happening at some higher level that I cannot
| perceive.
| cartoonworld wrote:
| It's just par for the course for generic-ass buy-a-job
| franchise schemes. McDonald's afiak has pretty close
| management of their operations to counteract this expected
| behavior.
| DangitBobby wrote:
| My experience is mainly that the chicken is pretty good but
| way overpriced for what it is. Service is on-par with other
| fast food. So I also don't understand why people choose KFC.
| Even when I did decide I wanted to eat there, They were also
| typically closed around the time I'd be looking for dinner.
| jmkni wrote:
| KFC in the UK/Ireland is pretty good.
|
| It's definitely not good for you, but it's tasty.
| city41 wrote:
| I was so impressed with McDonald's in France I ate it several
| times last time I was there.
| TheCoreh wrote:
| Yes, I've tried it in a couple countries and the best
| McDonald's meal I've had was in Champs-Elysees, Paris,
| France.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| France is actually a significant market for McDonald. It
| was the second one a decade ago, no idea if it's still the
| case.
|
| They also have some type of coffee shop/pastry joint
| inside, where you seat and the waiter brings the food.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| KFC in France, while still a low key fast food, is not bad.
| Much better than McDonalds for sure.
| izgzhen wrote:
| Can't agree more. Chinese branch of KFC/McDonalds not only has
| many delicious specials you can't find outside China, even the
| basic fried chicken is much more juicy and flavorful. I can
| only find similar fried chicken in some very niche brands in
| US.
| eplanit wrote:
| It's true. From my own experience, Starbucks in Japan is far
| superior than in the US, too. 7-11's are _wonderful_ in Japan.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| 7-11 were great for the 5 minutes their CEO actually cared
| about making customers happy and brought in innovations that
| literally forced nearly every other convenience store to
| consolidate into a mega chain into order to stay in business:
|
| - aggressive expansion of corporate-owned stores
|
| - very clean and modern toilets with a "free to use" policy
|
| - vertical integration: nearly every product became 7-11
| branded.
|
| - better quality of food in general, especially hot items
|
| - fresh coffee, brewed to order
|
| Of course, they fired that guy for a penny pincher and the
| quality took a dramatic nosedive to the point that shitty
| 7-11 products are a meme now. Things like bentos with a
| bottom that curves upwards to make it look like there is more
| product than there really is, sandwiches with filling only in
| side the visible from the shelf, shrinking onigiri, or
| "strawberry pulp" that is literally a picture of strawberry
| pulp printed onto the cup.
|
| Nearly all of the other brands consolidated into Famima, and
| now Famima is competing on quality to take advantage of the
| situation. It was amazing how quickly they got their act
| together when they realized what was going on at 7.
| eplanit wrote:
| Very sad to hear that. I guess all [good] things certainly
| do come to an end. I haven't been back there in a few
| years, so I'm recalling the "good ol' days", I guess.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| Isn't it great when shareholders at publicly traded
| companies say "Hey, we could totally make more money by
| making our product suck"?
|
| They'll probably get their act together sooner or later;
| McDonald's in Japan had an extreme turnaround for the
| better after years of poor management and scandals.
| jleyank wrote:
| I have found (US, Canada, UK) that Starbucks like most chains
| responds to the local competition. Where there's good coffee
| available in quantity, they hire baristas who drink it and
| know what they're doing. When there's few options, youthful
| customers or lots of tourists they go with the colored drinks
| and the coffee sux. I have also found that outside the US
| (possibly outside of N America), there's less sugar and more
| taste involved.
| Tade0 wrote:
| McDonald's in Italy is interesting - ketchup is not free
| (EUR0.50) and in taste is a lot like tomato sauce.
| nebula8804 wrote:
| This is not always true. A prominent food blogger Mikey Chen
| visited the KFC Buffet in Tokyo and was thoroughly
| disappointed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIzhomIj-YQ
| leppr wrote:
| In this particular case though it is quite strange to me.
| Between katsu and tenpura, the Japanese are expert at fried
| food, in which they place peculiar importance on the
| lightness/crispiness. I tried KFC in Japan and it's mostly the
| same as anywhere else, a greasy mess.
| ryder9 wrote:
| > Between katsu and tenpura, the Japanese are expert at fried
| food
|
| the japanese aren't a hive mind
| dylan604 wrote:
| pretty much everyone is familiar with frying food. howver,
| they all use different ingredients/spices/etc. that was
| always the KFC thing with their secret blend of spices. their
| original recipe isn't crunchy at all. so it's not really
| worth saying all fried food is the same so Japanese are
| expert where KFC (or any family table on a Sunday in the
| South) are not.
| [deleted]
| krapp wrote:
| Also see: the Curse of the Colonel[0].
|
| [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_Colonel
| ypeterholmes wrote:
| LOL
|
| "There, an assemblage of supporters yelled the players' names,
| and with every name, a fan resembling a member of the
| victorious team leaped from the bridge into the waiting canal.
| However, lacking a Caucasian person to imitate MVP Randy Bass,
| the rabid crowd seized a plastic statue of Colonel Sanders
| (like Bass, the Colonel had a beard and was not Japanese) from
| a nearby KFC and tossed it off the bridge as an effigy.
|
| According to the urban legend, this impulsive maneuver cost the
| team greatly, beginning the Curse of the Colonel, which states
| that the Tigers will not win the championship again until the
| statue is recovered. Subsequently, numerous attempts had been
| made to recover the statue, often as part of a variety TV
| show."
| dang wrote:
| One past thread:
|
| _Japan Celebrates Christmas with KFC_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16002210 - Dec 2017 (9
| comments)
| cheaprentalyeti wrote:
| Somewhere in the past archives there's also a link to a good
| article on Col. Harlan Sanders, his life, and his struggles
| against the corporation that bought him out.
| physicsgraph wrote:
| Wikipedia has a good summary [0] and [1].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_KFC#Heublein_and
| _st...
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Sanders#1930%E2%80%
| 931...
| bitwize wrote:
| Christmas in Japan was pitched by retailers as a fun way to spend
| your year-end bonus.
|
| Similarly, Valentine's Day was pitched by chocolate companies as
| a time to buy chocolates for your sweetheart. There are actually
| two such days: on Valentine's Day women give chocolates to their
| sweethearts, while on White Day (March 14), said sweethearts
| return the favor.
|
| Japanese people are starting to do things for Halloween. I am not
| sure what the marketing story is behind that.
| dcsan wrote:
| Starting to do things for halloween? Halloween in Shibuya is
| probably the most crazy thing I've ever seen and it's not all
| foreigners!
| warent wrote:
| There's a great videographer on YouTube named Chris Broad who
| moved to Japan and has been living there for something like 10
| years now. He does a show called "Abroad in Japan"
|
| He did a great video on this topic which is worth checking out
| (as well is all his other content for those interested in
| Japanese culture!)
|
| https://youtu.be/Pp6ggz_uwWE
| croes wrote:
| So Japan has Christmas traditions from KFC's marketing and the US
| and Europe from Coca Cola's marketing
| cunthorpe wrote:
| Yes people forget how Coca Cola molded Santa's image.
| orangecat wrote:
| That's largely overstated: https://www.snopes.com/fact-
| check/the-claus-that-refreshes/
| dopidopHN wrote:
| And from the pagan tradition of the yul festival, only a few
| millennia prior.
| brudgers wrote:
| "Those whacky Japanese" is a perennial category of bus-plunge
| journalism.
|
| It only seems odd if you don't think about it much. Americans
| don't think Honey Baked Ham or Boston Market on a holiday is
| weird though both are franchises and Boston Market was formerly a
| McDonalds brand.
|
| Try to book a table at Outback on Valentines (or even get seated
| at Applebee's).
|
| And while Americans have good cause to celebrate Benito Juarez
| saving their bacon by stopping the French while Americans were
| busy killing each other from fixed positions in the Civil War,
| Taco Bell chalupa combo boxes with a forty ounce no ice Mountain
| Dew doesn't really align with Cinco de Mayo any better than extra
| crispy at xmas.
|
| Every body is whacky.
| uranusjr wrote:
| Now I want the BBC to publish the article "Why Americans
| celebrate Cinco de Mayo with Taco Bell chalupa combo boxes with
| a forty ounce no ice Mountain Dew"
| Angostura wrote:
| > "Those whacky Japanese" is a perennial category of bus-plunge
| journalism.
|
| Perhaps, but this isn't one of those stories. There's a
| genuinely interesting history to how KFC became a Japanese
| Christmas staple - well, I found it interesting, at least.
| brudgers wrote:
| I found it entertaining.
|
| But when I finished I didn't have a better understanding of
| Japan's people, culture, or cuisine. Only a p-hack explained
| by multi-national marketing.
| bena wrote:
| As others have mentioned both Honey Baked Ham and Boston Market
| serve what's come to be Thanksgiving/Christmas meal staples.
|
| Every restaurant is packed for Valentines. It's a big date
| night. Going out on a date means going out to eat. There's
| nothing specific to Outback about going there on Valentines,
| that's just where some portion of people go. Same with
| Applebees.
|
| And while Americans celebrating Cinco de Mayo is odd, it's not
| a uniquely Taco Bell thing. Any vaguely Mexican adjacent
| business will advertise around it.
|
| This mashup of KFC and Christmas is a very brand specific thing
| unique to that country.
| serf wrote:
| so the British Broadcasting Company wrote an article about some
| trivia regarding Japan, so you feel the compulsion to remind
| everyone that the United States 'is wacky too'.
|
| Problem is that TFA never called anyone wacky; they didn't try
| to pass judgment at all -- and the United States wasn't ever
| involved in either side until you injected them into it ,
| unless you blame the country for KFC all together? I don't
| follow.
|
| Surely there must be some behavior you find strange from
| Britain ; you know -- the originator of the article -- without
| trying to loop around the world to drag another country through
| the mud?
|
| > "Those whacky Japanese" is a perennial category of bus-plunge
| journalism.
|
| 'bus-plunge journalism' isn't only about needlessly expanding
| nothing stories into pages, it also includes a level of
| exaggeration. I guess you could say the headline is exaggerated
| because it's not the entirety of Japan that celebrates with
| KFC? Feels like yak-shaving, most assume that headlines don't
| apply universally to entire countries full of people.
|
| > Americans don't think Honey Baked Ham or Boston Market on a
| holiday is weird
|
| (as an American I do.. but who cares, let's look at the
| numbers)
|
| The Honey Baked Ham Company says that it services about 2.5
| million customers between Thanksgiving to New Years, meaning
| that the KFC phenomenon in Japan is significantly stronger,
| given that TFA states that 3.5 million _families_ purchase KFC
| for _Christmas_ in _Japan_.
|
| Smaller time frames, smaller country, more sales; seemingly
| stronger trend.
| verelo wrote:
| This response seems like a bit of an over reaction to me. Why
| get so concerned about the comparison that adds another
| country into the mix? How else was this mean to be debated?
|
| Maybe we are all wacky, but clearly Americans are
| sensitive...
| bbbbdddgbb wrote:
| I'm American and I've never heard of Boston Market for
| Christmas, and it doesn't exist where I grew up, or in the
| region, and I would definitely think it was weird if someone
| wanted that for Christmas. I've never even heard of a franchise
| chain called Honey Baked. Are you from California or something?
| Why do people think Americans are a monolith?
|
| Where I'm from everything is closed on Christmas, even Wal-
| Mart, except the local Chinese takeout, so if you don't want
| home cooking, that's your one option.
|
| Now, living in a larger area, there are some other limited
| options but as a seventh generation European descended American
| I have never known a single family that celebrated Christmas by
| going to a franchise restaurant
| elif wrote:
| There are people in japan that don't go to KFC either.
|
| The meme-able phenomenon the OP is talking about is very real
| and certainly not regional or niche e.g. https://www.reddit.c
| om/r/LosAngeles/comments/9z7zd6/honey_ba...
| sparrish wrote:
| An you try to prove that with a link to a Los Angeles
| reddit?
| dylan604 wrote:
| I get your point to an extent, but are you serious with the
| not knowing Honey Baked Ham? Maybe if your upbringing says no
| pork, then sure you'd probably not be familiar but I'd at
| least thought the name would have been at least heard of in
| school/office/entertainment/etc. Clearly I'm wrong in that.
|
| Not everyone has a large family after growing up and getting
| holiday meals from "strange" places isn't that strange.
| Getting a fully cooked holiday meal from the grocery store is
| a thing, lots of restaurants do this as well. Boston Market
| often has menu items of turkey/dressing/potatoes/etc that one
| might think of a traditional holiday meal, so this isn't a
| stretch for them.
| mtlynch wrote:
| > _I get your point to an extent, but are you serious with
| the not knowing Honey Baked Ham? Maybe if your upbringing
| says no pork, then sure you 'd probably not be familiar but
| I'd at least thought the name would have been at least
| heard of in school/office/entertainment/etc. Clearly I'm
| wrong in that._
|
| You and GP might be talking past each other. GP is talking
| about "Honey Baked Ham" as a brand name. You might be
| talking about honey baked ham as a generic food.
|
| I've also spent all my life in the US in vastly different
| regions, and I've never heard of a franchise called Honey
| Baked Ham, but I'm aware of honey baked ham as a food
| product.
| brudgers wrote:
| An Occam's Razor guess where those honey baked ham food
| products tend to come from can be confirmed with a google
| when honey baked ham is what you're bringing to the next
| party.
| DenverCode wrote:
| I've never heard of honey baked ham the food chain.
| [deleted]
| joecool1029 wrote:
| >I get your point to an extent, but are you serious with
| the not knowing Honey Baked Ham? Maybe if your upbringing
| says no pork, then sure you'd probably not be familiar but
| I'd at least thought the name would have been at least
| heard of in school/office/entertainment/etc. Clearly I'm
| wrong in that.
|
| Funny thing was, I had never heard of Honey Baked Ham until
| my first boss told me he used to be a manager at one. The
| irony there was that he was Jewish and didn't eat pork.
| sparrish wrote:
| I'm with bbbbbbddddgbb on this one...
|
| And if you're hitting up Taco Bell on Cinco de Mayo, you're
| doing it wrong. Home-make 7-layer dip and margaritas (if
| you're into that kinda thing) is how we rock it in Colorado.
| brudgers wrote:
| So Nachos Bell Grande and Tequila in the forty ounce
| Mountain Dew. Those whacky Coloradans.
| [deleted]
| mikestew wrote:
| _I 've never even heard of a franchise chain called Honey
| Baked. Are you from California or something?_
|
| Not OP, but I'm from the Midwest, and I find your "must be a
| California thing" hilarious given that we were eating a Honey
| Baked Ham at least once a year over 40 years ago. Imagine my
| surprise (and regret that I had since gone vegetarian) when I
| moved to the west coast and found a Honey Baked Ham store in
| Bellevue, WA. My wife still gets one once in a great while,
| and I'd be lying if I said I didn't sneak a piece or two.
|
| Anyway, back to the point, looking their website prompts me
| to ask where one would have to live in the U. S. and _not_ be
| within an hour's drive of a store.
| bbbbdddgbb wrote:
| Well I grew up in a small town that's not within an hour of
| much of anything. It was a big deal when we got an Arby's,
| in the mid aughts. There's a lot of that in the US, even on
| the east coast. People who live in cities and fly all the
| time seem to forget about that.
|
| Figure out where it takes a couple hours of driving to get
| to an international airport and you'll have an idea.
|
| Anyway, I just assume anything people on this site assume
| everyone has seen is from California, especially if I've
| never heard of it.
|
| Maybe I've just never been in the market for fast food ham?
| I still feel like this is a weird example of something
| Americans commonly do on Christmas.
| johnjj257 wrote:
| You should get out more lol
| Galaxity wrote:
| Well Boston Market's food selection is basically American
| Thanksgiving and Christmas food year round. You can go in and
| order Turkey or Ham, with sides like mashed potatoes,
| stuffing, sweet potatoes, vegetable casseroles, etc. Honey
| Baked ham is a company that does the same thing, it's big for
| prepared take out meals for the holidays.
|
| So no, standard families in the suburbs may be making their
| own meals, but there are certainly many people in the US that
| aren't in that situation. Young people away from home,
| singles and couples, non traditional families, families that
| don't have time to cook because of jobs or don't want to.
| There are many people who get holiday meals from these
| restaurants.
| whateveracct wrote:
| I mean - I don't think this article falls under the category of
| "those whacky japanese." It was a pretty respectful and
| borderline poignant article.
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(page generated 2021-07-10 23:01 UTC)