[HN Gopher] Death Valley hits 130 degrees, near world record
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Death Valley hits 130 degrees, near world record
Author : DocFeind
Score : 108 points
Date : 2021-07-10 15:55 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Furnace Creek in Death Valley is actually decently shaded by some
| of the most prominent mountains in North America. I wonder if the
| air temperature would be higher if the sun hit the area earlier.
|
| Sunrise is 5:39am, but it's actually in mountain shade until
| 6:14am. Sunset is 8:07pm, but it's actually already in mountain
| shade at 7:43pm. The mountains cut out a good hour of direct
| sunlight.
|
| Here's an interactive map if you're interested:
| https://shademap.app/#36.4344,-116.85894,12z,1625922915384t
| jedberg wrote:
| I'm not sure that shade map is so accurate. I looked at my
| house and it wasn't even close. Also, it completely changed
| based on zoom level. If you zoom in it will show tall buildings
| shading all day, but I assure you that the tall buildings
| nearby do not provide any shade to my property.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Shade, even sunlight, isn't what makes death valley so hot. It
| is the _valley_ part. Adiabatic cooling /heating as the air
| moves up and down the mountains is what makes the valley floor
| so hot. Take away those mountains and you loose that heat
| engine.
|
| https://www.geographyrealm.com/geography-facts-about-death-v...
|
| "The confluence of several topographical and geographic factors
| have resulted in some of Earth's highest air temperatures.
| Solar heating of the desert floor, the movement of warm air
| from adjacent areas (known as advection), adiabatic heating as
| air descends the ranges west of Death Valley, and the trapping
| of air in the valley all contribute to scorching temperatures.
| "
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| Makes sense. I checked out Turbat, Pakistan and Kebili,
| Tunisia (noted for record temps) and at first glance their
| topography is less of a valley so some other mechanisms must
| be dominant there.
| reaperducer wrote:
| Having lived very near Death Valley, and been in Death Valley
| hundreds of times, especially in the summer, I can tell you the
| shade makes zero difference. Remember that it's almost entirely
| rocks, pebbles, and sand so the heat is stored from one day to
| the next. It doesn't get very much of an overnight reset like
| in temperate climates.
|
| The hottest I ever experienced there was 124deg on the big sign
| by the general store. The temperature sensor in my car said it
| was hotter, but I was mostly amazed that a Fiat and its tiny
| air conditioner was able to cope with 120's for a week.
| brudgers wrote:
| I advise discounting dependence on natural shade at Furnace
| Creek. Death Valley isn't called "Death Valley" because of
| tourism board branding.
|
| There's a reason park brochures don't show overnight trails.
| The reason is reality thumps theory and the reality is harsh.
|
| Imagining it as someplace like Disneyland is a bad idea.
| mcraiha wrote:
| 130 degrees Fahrenheit = 54.4 degrees Celsius
| barcoder wrote:
| I've experienced 50 degrees Celsius in the Sahara. Hard to
| imagine hotter.
| slumdev wrote:
| I've experienced 50 degrees Celsius in Las Vegas.
|
| But then I stepped back into the air conditioning.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| I've experienced 100C in a sauna :)
|
| It's a lot different though, since you can exit the sauna
| into air that is substantially colder, you can't escape the
| desert heat.
| monster_group wrote:
| 100? You were in boiling water temperature? How's that
| possible? Or did you mean to say 100degF?
| tolbish wrote:
| https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-10912578
| fogihujy wrote:
| Narh, it's 100C. Sauna can be pretty hard-core.
| Retric wrote:
| Only in the way I "experienced" 300+C by jumping through a
| bonfire. You never reach a true equilibrium in a Sauna that
| hot, but you can reach an equilibrium in 50C when the
| humidity is low enough.
| lostlogin wrote:
| We used to get stuff out an oven which cars were baked in
| after being painted. Lots of close on an run. In
| hindsight, very stupid.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Good point, 5 minutes at 100C is nothing like spending
| all day at 50C.
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| Are you a boiled chicken? Do saunas actually get that hot?
|
| _googles_
|
| I guess they can. Seems bonkers though.
| bin_bash wrote:
| even higher, I've been in Wi Spa in LA that gets up to
| 231f/110c
| skrause wrote:
| Dry air is a bad thermal conductor, so the body can
| easily deal with the hot air for a while.
|
| It quickly gets uncomfortable when they pour water on hot
| stones in the sauna. Humidity really makes all the
| difference.
| [deleted]
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Sauna at my gym ranges around 200 F +/- about 10 degrees,
| according to the thermometer on the wall, so getting
| close to 100 C. I sit in it about 20 minutes after a
| workout. Yes I am sweating buckets by the end. It feels
| good though.
| [deleted]
| lmilcin wrote:
| And just how much sunlight was in your sauna?
| csomar wrote:
| Apples and Oranges. Saunas have much lower humidity, and
| also you are exposed for much shorter duration of time.
| 100C is the boiling point of water; so if you stay for an
| extended period, you'll probably die.
|
| Some people who live in 50C temperatures do not have access
| to AC or a reliable water source.
| invincing wrote:
| Saunas (at least the way we enjoy them here in Finland)
| can be pretty humid, because we throw water on the stones
| of the stove. But throwing too much water can make it
| intolerable, and lethal if you don't follow your instinct
| to leave if it gets too hot.
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-10904691
|
| Normally in a sauna it's not constantly so humid that
| sweating wouldn't be able to keep your body temperature
| normal (as long as you stay hydrated). Throwing water on
| the stove raises the humidity just momentarily and makes
| you sweat at full capacity, but normally you would wait
| for some minutes before throwing more water.
|
| If air is humid enough, sweating can't cool the body
| anymore because sweat won't evaporate, so already 35C is
| lethal in 100% humidity.
|
| https://phys.org/news/2020-05-potentially-fatal-
| combinations...
| smusamashah wrote:
| I have experienced 50 in Multan, Pakistan many summers
| multiple times. It's a city though, not a desert. There are
| many other cities where temperatures go this high each
| summer.
| HappyDreamer wrote:
| That's in the shadows, right?
| xenocratus wrote:
| Technically speaking there is no "in the sun" temperature
| because it would depend on how much thermal energy the
| thermometer material absorbs from light.
| lmilcin wrote:
| Exactly. Mass of air has temperature and an object like
| thermometer can come into equilibrium with air temperature.
|
| On the other hand an object in sunlight will have
| temperature that has very complex relationship with a lot
| of parameters including shape of the object or windspeed.
|
| Further, the object will not come into equilibrium and will
| show a gradient of temperature meaning the readout will
| depend on where you measure.
| bertil wrote:
| There are two equilibrium temperatures, i.e. temperatures
| that likely don't depend much on the device that you are
| using:
|
| * under a tent, i.e. in the shadow and sheltered from direct
| wind: commonly used and correspond to the temperature of the
| air;
|
| * wet bulb: more recently under attention, correspond to the
| effect of cooling by evaporation similar to what a healthy
| human body does. Wet-bulb often gives much lower number in a
| dry heat and is more significant for human survival. I've
| read that 32oC or 88oF are likely were prolonged exposure
| lead to adverse health but don't quote me on that.
| the8472 wrote:
| > There are two equilibrium temperatures.
|
| The third one is radiative equilibrium. You could achieve
| that in a solar furnace, the object won't get hotter than
| the black body temperature of sunlight, which is ~5800K.
| lmilcin wrote:
| "Under a tent" (or air temperature) is more useful. It is
| going to telly you how hot will be objects that come into
| equilibrium with air which you can't tell from wet bulb
| temperature. You can derive wet bulb temperature from air
| temperature and humidity.
|
| Also measuring air temperature is easier and more practical
| as it is just enough to measure temperature of an object
| that comes into equilibrium with air.
| thekingofravens wrote:
| Doesn't 130 degree water like burn skin or something? Would it be
| dangerous just to be outside in that condition?
| toomanyrichies wrote:
| There is some dispute about whether other, supposedly higher
| recorded temperatures were actually valid readings. Original
| long-form blog post here[1], and a summary taken from here[2]
| reads as follows:
|
| "Burt wrote a detailed 2016 blog post at Weather Underground
| challenging the 1913 record at Death Valley, explaining that
| official readings of 134, 130, and 131 degrees Fahrenheit taken
| on July 10, 12, and 13, 1913 were likely the result of an
| inexperienced observer. In order for the 1913 Death Valley record
| to be decertified, though, an official World Meteorological
| Organization investigation committee would have to be assembled
| to look into the matter, a years-long process for which there is
| currently no motivation.
|
| The only other temperature of at least 130 degrees Fahrenheit
| officially recognized by the World Meteorological Organization is
| a 131-degree reading at Kebili, Tunisia, set July 7, 1931, which
| is considered to be Africa's hottest temperature.
|
| Burt disputed this record: "I mentioned to the WMO about the
| Kebili temperature of 131 degrees Fahrenheit back in 2012, when
| asked what I thought the next hottest temperature in Africa
| (after Al Azzia) might be, since that was the only temperature
| over 130 degrees Fahrenheit that had an actual date attached to
| it. However, the Kebili 'record' is even more bogus than even the
| Al Azzia record, and I said so. Kebili is a relatively cool spot
| in Tunisia (an oasis) and never since the 1930s ever again
| recorded a maximum temperature above 118 degrees Fahrenheit. The
| WMO wanted something for their 'Africa' section at that time, and
| somehow the 131 degrees Fahrenheit made it into the database with
| no consideration of its validity whatsoever. Nowhere in Africa
| has any reliably observed temperature been measured above 126
| degrees Fahrenheit.""
|
| 1. https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/an-
| invest...
|
| 2. https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/08/death-valley-
| cali...
| mediaman wrote:
| It looks like it'll beat that today.
|
| Yesterday, it reached 130 at 23:54 GMT.
|
| But it's trending hotter today: the current hour peak temperature
| is 127.4, and the same hour peak temperature yesterday was only
| 124.4. There's about two or so more hours of heating left in the
| day, which yesterday added 5.6 degrees in heat vs the 2100 hour
| peak.
|
| If that happens - the same heating would cause it to reach 133F -
| it'll shatter the (reliable) world records.
| user3939382 wrote:
| Growing up in Palm Springs I remember it breaking 120 all the
| time. For me these records seem like a particularly hot day in
| Palm Springs.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| It's only been 123 F in Palm Springs 3 times and 122 F ~ 1/2 a
| dozen, so I doubt you remember this happening "all the time".
| It's never been any where close to 130F there, but nice flex
| anyway.
| brink wrote:
| I don't really see the reason to be so aggressive in gate-
| keeping. It broke 120 three years in a row ('93-'95).
|
| It doesn't technically mean "all the time", but if you were
| born in say '89, 3 years in a row could be half your life at
| that point. And those kinds of early memories/conclusions are
| the ones you carry with you well into later in life.
| neolog wrote:
| Where can I see those numbers?
| EliRivers wrote:
| https://www.cactushugs.com/hottest-days-palm-springs-
| history...
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Looks like they're a few years out of date. It hit 123 in
| PS a few weeks ago
| user3939382 wrote:
| Weird that as the temperature lowered your count was doubling
| but then you strategically omitted 120, 121? It's not a
| "flex" that it was hot (??)
|
| I love these programmer types on HN that are always looking
| for some way to tell someone they're wrong.
|
| I know, let's spend a few hours to plot every day it was 120,
| 121, 122, 123 on a chart, debate the role of "feels like"
| temperatures, debate what all the time means, and then we can
| have an Internet panel decide if 130 really does seem like a
| particularly hot day for someone from Palm Springs.
|
| And by the way, since you're so smart, how is 123 "no where
| close" to 130?
| ffffwe3rq352y3 wrote:
| Maybe your used to hotter environments but for me at least
| the difference between 100 and 93 is a lot! 100 is the no
| go zone but 93 I can take!
| crazygringo wrote:
| But you are wrong. I'm sorry you're upset that "programmer
| types" are telling you that... do you think it's better to
| allow misinformation to spread uncorrected? That doesn't
| seem very helpful.
|
| Even according to @EliRivers's link, it only hit 121 twice.
| Unfortunately the article doesn't have 120, but given the
| distribution it's fair to assume it's only been a handful
| of times historically as well.
|
| Nobody's talking about "feels like" temperatures (they
| don't exist on thermometers), and "all the time" doesn't
| need a debate -- it's obviously significantly more than
| once a summer, for example.
|
| So in every possible way, it seems your statement that Palm
| Springs hit 120 all the time is 100% wrong. It would be
| better to just accept that graciously.
| user3939382 wrote:
| What it's fair to assume is that Palm Springs has broken
| 120 multiple times per summer and over the course of many
| years yes I'd call this "all the time" -- as in, not a
| rare occurrence. It would be better not to make a sport
| out of trying to prove people wrong when they're not
| making a precise scientific statement in the first place
| and you don't know what you're talking about.
| iammisc wrote:
| Yeah same.i clearly remember visiting palm springs and seeing
| the car thermometer read 120 outside.
| coldcode wrote:
| The hottest I ever felt was 114deg in the DFW area in Texas. I
| cannot even fathom another 16 degrees. Even with low humidity,
| 130deg is a killer. Even worse though are places in the world not
| quite as hot, but with high humidity, where the body cannot cope
| with cooling you down. If heat continues to go up, I wonder how
| many places on earth will become uninhabitable, and where will
| the people there then go?
|
| Maybe the future of humanity is underground, it does not take
| very far before the temperature is very pleasant. I recall
| walking down the path in Carlsbad Caverns when it was 100deg
| outside, and the cave was at a constant 53deg or so.
| nemo44x wrote:
| 130 is a medium rare steak. You could literally let your steak
| sit outside all day and end up with a perfectly cooked steak -
| although I suspect it would be gross and probably loaded with
| bacteria.
| cycrutchfield wrote:
| Nice, open-air sous vide. At a constant 130 F, after 2-3
| hours the steak should be fully pasteurized and nicely medium
| rare.
| nemo44x wrote:
| I was thinking that too but I also was concerned that new
| bacteria would join the party since it's not in a bag?
|
| Could throw it on the asphalt I guess and maybe get some
| browning to boot.
| agumonkey wrote:
| tiny digression, I'm regularly amazed at how a simple tree can
| make a hot spot liveable.. one mango tree in front of my
| grandmother's house is our lunch spot because it's just
| slightly cooler, slightly windier, when the rest is burning
|
| also whenever it's burning.. I go in the forest, it's a lot
| chiller obviously..
|
| my point is nature was good a finding solutions for that when
| possible. Turning light into energy for plants while making
| cool shadows underneath
| irrational wrote:
| It was 115 (though our car said it was 119) two weekends ago in
| Oregon. Of course, that was the weekend we had arranged to move
| houses. All day outside lugging boxes and furniture was no
| bueno.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > The hottest I ever felt was 114deg in the DFW area in Texas.
| I cannot even fathom another 16 degrees. Even with low
| humidity, 130deg is a killer.
|
| Humidity makes a bigger difference than you might think.
|
| Death Valley at 130F and 6% humidity (the current Death Valley
| humidity) has a heat index similar to somewhere at 100F and 50%
| humidity (common humidity for DFW, Texas).
|
| Heat index isn't perfect, but 114F with DFW humidity might have
| felt significantly worse than 130F with Death Valley humidity.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I mean, we already air condition a lot. My guess is if an area
| is uninhabitable for a small portion of the year, we'll build
| more structures designed to convey people between buildings and
| their vehicles without people actually going outdoors, such
| that you just don't go outside when it's that hot.
|
| As a Chicagoan, I'd like to see more built that way just for
| the winter...
|
| That being said, underground is pretty efficient energy-wise,
| it'll just depend on whether or not that exceeds the costs of
| building underground, which is generally significant.
| irrational wrote:
| When I lived in south Florida we would pretty much went from
| our air conditioned houses to our air conditioned cars to our
| air conditioned schools/stores/work. I'd usually wait until
| after midnight to go for a run since it was "cooler".
| tekstar wrote:
| I visited Death Valley in the summer year ago. I remember the
| birds would line up in the narrow shadows cast by the telephone
| poles to stay out of the sun.
| contemporary343 wrote:
| If Death Valley hits 131F today, that will be the highest
| reliably recorded air temperature on earth. In fact up to 134F is
| within the range of possibilities today and tomorrow, which would
| hit and exceed the less reliably recorded values from 1913 and
| the 1920s in Tunisia.
|
| By the 2050s.. who knows, maybe 140F will be within reach.
| ksec wrote:
| 131F = 55C
|
| For those who are wondering.
| bla3 wrote:
| It's amazing what we can achieve if we set our minds to it!
| irrational wrote:
| Reach for the stars _!
|
| _ The temperature at the surface of the Sun is about 10,000
| Fahrenheit (5,600 Celsius).
| lolive wrote:
| Team work makes the dream work.
| drdeadringer wrote:
| I imagine my manger saying this.
|
| I'm already not wanting to work there any more.
| [deleted]
| pkulak wrote:
| It's like the most depressing 4-minute mile.
| eric__cartman wrote:
| humanity moment
| perihelions wrote:
| Here's the live (hourly*) temperature data from the Death
| Valley station,
|
| https://hads.ncep.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/hads/interactiveDisplays/...
|
| *(Transmits each hour at the +1m 40s offset).
| EMM_386 wrote:
| Wikipedia claims this is 134F, not 131F, but that is apparently
| disputed.
|
| > The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley was
| 134 degF (56.7 degC), on July 10, 1913, at Greenland Ranch (now
| Furnace Creek),[6] which is the highest atmospheric temperature
| ever recorded on earth.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Valley#Climate
| jefftk wrote:
| Perhaps read your parent again? They are distinguishing
| between reliable recent measurements and unreliable older
| ones.
| walrus01 wrote:
| How accurate were thermometers in 1913?
| wtf42 wrote:
| Good enough. Saint Petersburg has been registering daily
| temperature measurements and publishing them in newspapers
| since 1778 (in Delisle scale).
| Animats wrote:
| Sunday is forecast to be hotter.
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(page generated 2021-07-10 23:01 UTC)