[HN Gopher] Apple Maps. vs Google Maps
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Maps. vs Google Maps
        
       Author : ColinWright
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2021-07-10 11:40 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.forbes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.forbes.com)
        
       | r0m4n0 wrote:
       | Apple Maps has a long way to go on biking directions. Today on
       | the Chicago waterfront I selected biking directions and it just
       | said "unavailable"
       | 
       | I do like the contextual directions on Apple Maps they say "at
       | the next signal turn left" but I refuse to use two map apps
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | Apple Maps does not yet offer cycling directions in Chicago,
         | period. Despite it being on their "coming soon" list about 2
         | years ago. I would love to switch, cmon guys.
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | Do you have "avoid busy roads" enabled for biking directions? I
         | think it may be the default and would explain why it had
         | trouble near DT Chicago.
        
       | cromwellian wrote:
       | Personally I have a decade of travel in Google Maps timeline,
       | hundreds of cities, dozens of countries. I use that and exif data
       | in photos as a way to self document my life and look back on what
       | I did.
       | 
       | Apple offers nothing like this. I can even download a Takeout
       | dump from Google import it other apps for processing.
       | 
       | Apple Maps POI database still seems pretty bad IMHO, but worse is
       | that it's search function is broken. If I am searching for
       | something, return results sorted by distance. Sometimes Apple
       | Maps returns businesses with the same name in other states or
       | countries before one right next to me. Maybe their POI database
       | isn't the problem, and it's search. Given the years they've had
       | to improve their broken App Store search, it doesn't raise my
       | confidence that it'll improve soon.
        
       | Maxburn wrote:
       | Apple maps has a lot of weaknesses, particularly the search along
       | route limitations that I bump into all the time. Mostly in the US
       | it's "good enough" though.
       | 
       | BUT when I started seeing so many obvious advertising things
       | going on in google maps the writing was on the wall. Lately the
       | advert items started looking an awful lot like my starred places,
       | that's some dark patterns I'm not going to put up with.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | Still better than partnering with Yelp, I would think. Apple
         | Maps puts Yelp front and center like one of its star
         | performers.
        
           | ericmay wrote:
           | True but at least they are kind of partnering with different
           | companies and keeping additional ecosystems alive. Like using
           | DDG for example.
        
           | TheParkShark wrote:
           | Hopefully this is going away soon enough. This is from iOS 14
           | last year, https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/26/apple-
           | maps-will-l....
        
           | Schiendelman wrote:
           | It looks like it's stopped doing that in some countries
           | recently. I've seen tripadvisor, and some that are native
           | photos!
        
       | wpearse wrote:
       | Here in New Zealand there's State Highway 1 which runs the length
       | of the country. Because of our geography (long and thin) it's
       | basically the only way to cover long distances quickly.
       | 
       | Inexplicably once or twice a year Apple Maps decides that
       | different sections of SH1 is closed and sends you on a wild
       | detour.
       | 
       | Right now, Apple Maps thinks that a short 30m (100ft) stretch of
       | SH1 is closed just north of Warkworth. (It's not closed, I drive
       | it daily, and have reported to Apple weeks ago.)
       | 
       | The suggested detour is a miserable, slow, and windy drive. Why
       | Apple, why?!
        
       | mr-ron wrote:
       | I opened up my settings to allow Google maps to have access to my
       | location all the time, even when not using the app.
       | 
       | I have found the Timeline feature in Google maps to be a huge
       | game changer in terms of 'where ive been' and 'what Ive done'. I
       | can look back months, see exactly what routes I went down, where
       | I was at a given time. It will even match pictures with the
       | locations.
       | 
       | Especially for journaling vacations (sometimes weeks later), and
       | reliving memories, its the greatest app Ive used in some time.
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | > I can look back months, see exactly what routes I went down,
         | where I was at a given time.
         | 
         | So can Google.
         | 
         | I'd love to have these features but the price is just too high.
         | The price would be too high even if I trusted Google (which I
         | don't), because _every company that collects personal
         | information will be hacked_ because no company is properly
         | incentivised to protect users ' data.
        
           | sfifs wrote:
           | > So can Google
           | 
           | More interestingly so can _anyone_ who can get a subpoena or
           | some equivalent judicial order issued to have Google release
           | your location to them.
        
           | beagle3 wrote:
           | You know your phone service provider has that location
           | information in resolution that's almost as good, right?
           | 
           | The only way to opt out is to turn your phone off
           | (equivalently, leave it at home).
           | 
           | For some people, the fact that google _also_ knows it is no
           | big deal. For some it is. But if you are worried about your
           | whereabouts being leaked, how can you justify using a phone
           | in the first place? Verizon and AT &T are more likely to get
           | hacked than google (or just sell that info outright, which
           | they have done wholesale before)
        
             | sfifs wrote:
             | > You know your phone service provider has that location
             | information in resolution that's almost as good, right?
             | 
             | Not really. Tower triangulation is nowhere close to as
             | accurate. It places you in the general agea with a pretty
             | large error bound. Leaking Behavioural details require fine
             | grained location.
        
             | Closi wrote:
             | > You know your phone service provider has that location
             | information in resolution that's almost as good, right?
             | 
             | Just because one industry has access to my location data
             | without me being able to stop it, doesn't mean I'm going to
             | give any other company that wants it unfettered access to
             | my location data for whatever purpose they want.
             | 
             | With maps the good news is I _do_ have an opportunity to
             | pick providers that have better privacy policies.
        
             | websites2023 wrote:
             | You know that most people don't have a choice in whether or
             | not to have a cell phone, right?
             | 
             | Privacy fatalism helps no one. Demanding that someone who
             | is concerned about their privacy to "justify" their
             | situation -- one which they have no practical way of opting
             | out of - is victim blaming.
             | 
             | Some people don't want to be tracked. Any steps they take
             | to reach that state are valid. Absolute privacy is
             | impossible in this dystopia we now inhabit --- much of
             | which has been built by the people who frequent this board
             | --- but these doesn't make Google's absolutely trash
             | privacy practices any less egregious.
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | ...not to mention they whip out a credit card to make every
             | purchase. And let's not get started on what their ISP
             | records.
        
               | dimitrios1 wrote:
               | I don't think succumbing to defeatism is the correct
               | response to the gross privacy invasion. Take the
               | victories where you can, and fight who you can.
        
               | okwubodu wrote:
               | I don't see how voluntarily letting a service see your
               | location is an invasion of privacy.
        
               | websites2023 wrote:
               | "Voluntarily" is doing some heavy lifting there. Is it
               | "voluntary" if it's required to use the service --
               | including aspects that don't "need" it? Is it "voluntary"
               | if the use of that data is governed by one-sided terms
               | that the collecting party can change at any time, for any
               | reason, with little notice or no notice at all? Is it
               | "voluntary" if the technology is so complex that any
               | average-intelligence user could not possibly weigh the
               | pros and cons of such a decision in the face of a $1T
               | company's cabal of PhD holding ML scientists inventing
               | new ways to exploit that information?
               | 
               | At this point, location tracking by companies is about as
               | "voluntary" as using the web itself.
               | 
               | Or about as voluntary as actions which are performed with
               | a pistol to one's head.
        
               | DenverCode wrote:
               | I don't believe that was their point.
               | 
               | If someone chooses to be privacy focused, then they will
               | likely opt out of the things that they can control - that
               | doesn't change because there are others they can't.
        
           | a254613e wrote:
           | >I'd love to have these features but the price is just too
           | high.
           | 
           | I know you're speaking in broader terms, but for anyone
           | interested you can have this specific feature (location
           | history) using owntracks and owntracks recorder completely
           | privately.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | What is the price?
        
           | freyr wrote:
           | If you carry a cell phone, your location is already logged by
           | by the wireless carriers, whom I trust much less with my
           | data, both in terms of keeping it secure and not reselling it
           | to third parties [1].
           | 
           | Certainly, some people will want to minimize the number of
           | parties that know you were in location X at time Y. But I'd
           | guess that for many people, myself included, that data simply
           | isn't that sensitive or interesting.
           | 
           | [1] All the major U.S. carriers (AT&T, Verizon, Sprint,
           | T-Mobile) have been fined for reselling users' location data
           | without consent: https://www.govtech.com/network/wireless-
           | carriers-face-200m-...
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | I've used the app Arc for the same purpose: recording my
         | location all the time even when not running so I know where
         | I've been. But Arc has an excellent privacy policy: all
         | location data stored and processed locally. This is a
         | compromise: local processing means the app can be slow, but IMO
         | the privacy aspects far outweigh a sluggish UI.
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/arc-app-location-activity/id10...
        
         | ehsankia wrote:
         | That's the thing, to me, the fact that the information is
         | connected to me is the reason I use Google maps. I understand
         | it's not for everyone, but to me it's a feature, not a bug.
         | 
         | The issue with privacy labels also is that you have to list the
         | worst possible scenario, whereas through options, you can
         | possibly reduce that list quite a bit.
         | 
         | Google Maps now has an incognito mode which unless I'm wrong
         | would be equivalent if not more privacy centric than Apple
         | Maps. But again, the privacy labels can't show that, they only
         | show labels for the worse case.
        
           | kfajdsl wrote:
           | I consciously leave a lot of the Google data collecting
           | features on.
           | 
           | More than once, Google search suggestions have been
           | freakishly good; this is coming out of my ass, but I feel
           | like they might use your contacts for suggestions, which I
           | usually notice studying last minute for a test or whatnot.
           | 
           | Then, of course, you have things like Google Photos, the
           | aforementioned Google Maps features, etc.
        
       | randomperson_24 wrote:
       | Apple Maps is unusable in any city that is not US City OR Big
       | City in Europe.
        
       | SirensOfTitan wrote:
       | We were already using Apple Maps pre-iOS15 because its turn-by-
       | turn directions were far superior.
       | 
       | With Google Maps, we were often surprised by the directions: it
       | would be like keep left... keep left...TURN AROUND NOW.
       | 
       | Apple Maps often shows the next two directions, and more clearly
       | dictates what we should do next.
       | 
       | ... with iOS15, Apple maps are just gorgeous, and I've completely
       | deleted Google maps (I now have no dependence on Google services
       | for personal life).
       | 
       | Google has sat on its hands the last couple years with Google
       | Maps: it has hardly improved at all, and outside of their move to
       | jack up prices for API users, I haven't heard of any real
       | changes.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | It's been years and Google maps still recommends an
         | illegal/suicidal/likely impossible u-turn near my parent's
         | place in NYC. Might be time to switch to Apple Maps for driving
         | directions.
        
         | wutbrodo wrote:
         | > Google has sat on its hands the last couple years with Google
         | Maps: it has hardly improved at all, and outside of their move
         | to jack up prices for API users, I haven't heard of any real
         | changes.
         | 
         | It's a pretty mature product, so you'd expect the pace of
         | signjificant change to be much slower. And large, noticeable
         | change (like a redesign) is a poor metric, as it often feels
         | like a PM getting their wings at the expense of user
         | experience, including muscle memory in an app as useful as
         | Maps.
         | 
         | Despite these caveats, I can think of a new feature off the top
         | of my head: a heatmap of all photos I've ever taken appearing
         | on Google maps. I just moved to New York and it's been both
         | useful and delightful to rediscover where I've been from a new
         | perspective, driven by the serendipitous photos I took over the
         | last decade of sporadic visits.
         | 
         | Yet another new feature I just remembered is Live View compass
         | calibration. Anybody who lives in a big city can relate to how
         | irritating compass quality is around large buildings. The
         | ability to calibrate my compass in two seconds via camera
         | recognition of the street scene is a huge quality of life
         | improvement.
         | 
         | Im usually hesitant to disagree with other people's opinions,
         | but it really sounds like you either have no familiarity with
         | Google Maps or are stuck in a 2010 Apple vs Google fanboy-war
         | view of the world. The reason Maps is so wildly popular is
         | because it consistently pushes out user experience both
         | improvements that are straightforwardly (if incrementally)
         | useful and occasional larger "cool" (and also useful) features.
         | To get as wildly wrong an interpretation as yours (of Maps as
         | somehow stagnant) reeks of willful ignorance.
        
           | abraham wrote:
           | The Google Photos mobile apps have heatmaps of photos.
           | https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/25/21301932/google-photos-
           | re...
           | 
           | Disclosure: I work for Google, not on Maps or Photos.
        
       | nixy wrote:
       | But a map app is so much more than street maps and navigation. I
       | have tried to switch to Apple Maps, and it works great for
       | navigation or getting an overview of the streets. But I cannot
       | use Apple Maps to explore!
       | 
       | With Google maps, I just fire it up and search "sights" to find
       | places near that are worth a visit. "Public beaches" to find
       | where I can go for a swim. If I try the same with Apple Maps,
       | more often than not I get sent to a place in Myanmar or similar
       | which happens to be tagged as "public beach".
       | 
       | Also when I search for a business on Google maps, I get photos
       | and reviews. With Apple Maps I am happy if I get a link to a
       | website.
        
         | cdubzzz wrote:
         | I agree with you but to be fair I just tapped "public beaches"
         | in to Apple Maps and got a bunch of nearby public beaches.
         | 
         | The Yelp integration is what annoys me. I don't care much about
         | the stars or anything in Google Maps but the photos and
         | sometimes comments be can very instructive. On Apple Maps this
         | information is hidden behind a third party service I don't use
         | or want to use.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I assume they are working on getting rid of Yelp and only use
           | it as a stop gap until they get their own sufficient data.
        
             | ghostly_s wrote:
             | They don't seem to be collecting any replacement data from
             | their users...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway284534 wrote:
       | My biggest issue with Apple Maps is that I know it has
       | information that it isn't telling me about, especially so when
       | public transit is involved. Apple almost always picks the worst
       | route when commenting through NYC's subway, suggesting that you
       | take the closest line and transfer in another station, rather
       | than walking a block to the line directly. And it's almost always
       | the case that you'll arrive at a mid-trip station just as your
       | connecting train leaves the platform. You've just added a minimum
       | 10 minute wait, plus the time and energy it took to walk through
       | the station!
       | 
       | I would avoid Apple Maps entirely if they allowed Google Maps
       | full access to the Watch OS.
        
       | tppiotrowski wrote:
       | Nobody mentioned the battery/heat issues with Google Maps. My
       | iPhone on a sunny dashboard running Google Maps almost always
       | overheats and drains the battery.
       | 
       | I've switched to Apple Maps on long drives because it uses
       | significantly less battery and phone stays cooler. Has anyone
       | else experienced this?
        
       | nvr219 wrote:
       | I use Waze because I want to know where the cops are.
        
         | exegete wrote:
         | With CarPlay Apple Maps now has an option to report radar and
         | hazards. Google also now owns Waze and uses info from it to
         | show hazards.
        
           | wpearse wrote:
           | My experience (NZ) is that it's 50-50 whether you get the
           | "Fixed speed camera ahead!" warning before, or after, you
           | drive past the speed camera. (Even approaching the same
           | camera from different directions!)
           | 
           | The position of the cameras is correctly marked on the map,
           | so you just need to keep an eye on the map rather than trust
           | the audible alerts.
        
         | seriousquestion wrote:
         | How reliable is that?
        
           | cromwellian wrote:
           | Super reliable. I used to get at least 1 speeding ticket per
           | year, I haven't had a ticket in 8 years thanks to Waze.
           | 
           | Also Waze time estimates are stupidly accurately. You think
           | you can beat their estimate by driving faster but it somehow
           | accounts for that, eg if average speed on 101 is currently 80
           | mph the estimates will reflect that. Waze puts Apple Maps to
           | shame for navigation.
           | 
           | The way it reports adding a stop (say for gas station) as how
           | many minutes off route is extremely useful.
        
           | pfranz wrote:
           | It's been fairly reliable in practice, but it's based on
           | crowd sourcing. It'll ask you to confirm if you see one
           | someone else has flagged. Sometimes you're the first to see
           | it, sometimes the alert is out of date and there's no
           | officer.
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I've tried to use Apple Maps but it just straight up cant find
       | normal places that have existed for ages. I don't know what the
       | deal is.
        
         | wutbrodo wrote:
         | Outside of niche cases, every user I've ever talked to, here or
         | in-person, has only ever used brand loyalty as their reason for
         | using it. With a userbase like that, why bother making a good
         | service, particularly when you don't have the institutional
         | competency to do so?
        
           | chipotle_coyote wrote:
           | Okay, in a comment you left literally three minutes before
           | this you were accusing someone else of being "stuck in a 2010
           | Apple vs Google fanboy-war view of the world," and now you're
           | saying, in so many words, only people who are fanboys use
           | Apple maps because Apple fans are sheep so why should Apple
           | bother. Pick a lane.
        
             | wutbrodo wrote:
             | Yes, the juxtaposition occurred to me. But this is not an
             | accurate representation of my view:
             | 
             | > you're saying, in so many words, only people who are
             | fanboys use Apple maps because Apple fans are sheep so why
             | should Apple bother.
             | 
             | This is a reasonable interpretation if you read my comment
             | carelessly, because I was pretty imprecise with my
             | phrasing.
             | 
             | First off, I don't think my sample is close to
             | representative of all users, but I've come across it often
             | enough in diverse enough contexts that I'm comfortable
             | considering brand-loyalty-as-motivation to be a non-trivial
             | part of the market dynamic here.
             | 
             | I'm also not artificially deducing brand loyalty from
             | assumptions about the quality of the product, and I
             | recognize that its most famous failings don't encapsulate
             | overall product quality (in fact, I didn't make any direct
             | claims about product quality). The "brand-loyal" people I'm
             | referring to are the ones who've explicitly said to me that
             | they use Apple Maps so that it can "get more user data and
             | get better". This kind of altruism is vanishingly rare in
             | most product relationships, and brand loyalty is by far the
             | most parsimonious explanation. This shouldn't be
             | surprising; theres a reason that Apple's marketing and
             | product competencies are world-renowned, and I have plenty
             | of other from-the-horse's-mouth examples (like the family
             | members who sincerely ask me why I'd choose an Android, as
             | they had _literally_ never heard a reason other than "can't
             | afford an iPhone").
             | 
             | Apple's relatively poor competency at services (vs hardware
             | products) is a subjective claim, but one that isn't an
             | unreasonable conclusion for a thoughtful person to land on
             | (or disagree with).
             | 
             | To put it all together, something like this more accurately
             | conveys my point:
             | 
             | I have enough data points of strong brand loyalty shaping
             | Apple consumer behavior, particularly in the case of Maps,
             | that I fairly consider it a non-trivial factor in usage of
             | the product. I don't discount (and in fact directly call
             | out) the possibility of the app fitting a specific consumer
             | better, nor do I claim that it's not a better product
             | overall, as I'm not familiar enough with it to make that
             | claim. A situation with stickier brand loyalty _requires_
             | less competition on usability than the counterfactual (this
             | is practically tautological).
             | 
             | If you can't see the difference between the above and the
             | trivially-disprovable factual claims in the comment I
             | described, then your definition of "fanboy" seems to be
             | little more than "dislike a product I like".
        
       | T3RMINATED wrote:
       | apple maps sux
        
       | edhelas wrote:
       | vs OpenStreepMap
        
       | CalChris wrote:
       | The FA presents a good argument and as a consequence I deleted
       | Google Maps and a few others. I also turned off Location Services
       | for a few apps, notably WhatsApp. I'll try Apple Maps for awhile
       | which in the Bay Area should be a low bar to clear. I'm also
       | looking at OpenStreetMaps apps.
        
       | o_m wrote:
       | I use Apple Maps for navigation and Google Maps in the browser
       | for everything else.
        
       | aunty_helen wrote:
       | What a tight rope this author has to walk. You want commute
       | suggestions but you don't want google to know where you live or
       | work?
       | 
       | I'll bat for google on this one, the value I get from Gmaps vs
       | the value they get from my data seems like a fair exchange.
       | 
       | Also PSA, if you use Bluetooth with your car, your city transport
       | department is tracking you. Best of luck opting out of that or
       | even finding who to contact.
        
         | jabyess wrote:
         | > Also PSA, if you use Bluetooth with your car, your city
         | transport department is tracking you. Best of luck opting out
         | of that or even finding who to contact.
         | 
         | Can you say more about this? I've never heard of it.
        
           | RyJones wrote:
           | Not sure what they're pointing to, but TPMS tracking is
           | possible as well.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/TDYoo7TGNcw
        
           | post_break wrote:
           | Houston does it. They have bluetooth trackers on all the
           | highways. They use it for determining congestion based on how
           | often you can ping the same address. Keeps pinging? Gridlock.
           | Pings once, traffic moving.
        
           | aunty_helen wrote:
           | Sure, here's the one I've had experience with:
           | https://addinsight.com.au/
           | 
           | They put powerful bluetooth sensors on poles or in roadside
           | cabinets. They're pretty cheap to deploy so have become
           | widely used.
           | 
           | Pretty much if you have two bluetooth devices talking to each
           | other, you can be tracked by your bluetooth mac address.
           | (Same as wifi networks and sniffing with wireshark etc)
           | 
           | Or if you have a device pinging with a non-random mac (ie
           | your car).
           | 
           | If you've got an iphone and it's not actively being used, you
           | get a random mac, no problems.
        
         | foolfoolz wrote:
         | you don't even need bluetooth. there's license plate readers on
         | all highways which feed into traffic indicators on apps or
         | those road signs that say how many minutes away places are
        
           | aunty_helen wrote:
           | License plate readers are costly and need to be positioned
           | with a good field of view etc.
           | 
           | Bluetooth sensors are more widely used, you've just never
           | noticed them.
           | 
           | Also, the highway congestion is most likely done with
           | magnetic inductance loops.
        
         | Allezxandre wrote:
         | But the point is that Apple Maps also has the commute
         | suggestions without the privacy cost
        
           | lyongu wrote:
           | As long as you're using a cellular network, you're trackable,
           | no? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFns39RXPrU
        
             | Allezxandre wrote:
             | Maybe, I don't know, but it doesn't mean we should just
             | give up on protecting our data everywhere else.
             | 
             | A GPS or Bluetooth signal would be far more precise as a
             | mass surveillance tool, so let's not give that up
        
             | benhurmarcel wrote:
             | Not being tracked in addition by an advertising company is
             | worth something to me.
        
       | steve_adams_86 wrote:
       | I'm curious - does anyone reading this agree with the notion that
       | Apple maps is becoming comparable to Google maps?
       | 
       | I haven't given it a fair shot in almost a decade I guess, and it
       | was almost unusable then. Does anyone here use it as a daily
       | driver? What are the strong and weak points?
        
         | brnt wrote:
         | Wherever I've been (I hike a lot), I find that OSM is superior
         | to both.
        
           | tppiotrowski wrote:
           | I agree. Organic Maps also has climbing/mountaineering routes
           | that are completely hidden on Google/Apple maps. My friends
           | download GPX files prior to going out, I just open up OSM. :)
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I've been exclusively using Apple Maps for 3 years, never
         | looked back. Spending most of my time in urban-ish areas, it'll
         | not know about some destination maybe once a year. The UX for
         | live directions is great; it'll give you little details like
         | "go past this stop sign and turn at the one right after it"
         | which are really nice. The UI is generally less crowded too.
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | I use Apple Maps as my primary GPS in my vehicle. I have spent
         | the last few years on the road driving across North America and
         | Google Maps repeatedly made objectively incorrect decisions in
         | rural areas that would take me in quasi-off road situations.
         | After I got frustrated being led astray I started comparing
         | routes on both and found that it seems to be a logic issue for
         | Google Maps, where it would save 5 km of distance and not
         | recognize the unpaved backroads with tons of twists and turns
         | would add significant time. Apple Maps somehow did recognize
         | this.
         | 
         | I only kept Google Maps installed for info on things along a
         | route or opening hours but since then I've deleted it and just
         | use Duck Duck Go to do searches, combined with Apple Maps for
         | GPS.
         | 
         | Edit: one more thing: in the city I am from there has been a
         | lot of development. Google is missing a ton of roads in near
         | areas where Apple Maps is not.
        
           | dilly_li wrote:
           | I think that's probably because Apple doesn't even know that
           | backroads existed so Apple Maps couldn't optimize the route.
           | 
           | If Apple Maps had knew those backroards, they would probably
           | output the same routes! :-D
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | I thought that might be the case but when I zoom in I can
             | see the back roads in Apple Maps. I am pretty sure it is a
             | algorithm issue. Google doesn't have enough data about how
             | slow those back roads are and maybe relies on that data
             | more than Apple does.
        
           | heliodor wrote:
           | The bad choices in rural areas for Google Maps seems to be a
           | recent thing. My guess is that it's a result of a new
           | approach of combining computer vision of satellite imagery
           | with phone location data from ranchers driving on their
           | private dirt roads.
        
             | hackmiester wrote:
             | And that is absolutely what I would expect from Google:
             | clueless, heavy-handed of the latest shiny technology
             | rather than using existing methods and data that were
             | working perfectly.
        
             | devoutsalsa wrote:
             | Google Maps took me down all sorts of goofy unpacked
             | backroads in Crete this past month. It'd cut the driving
             | distance in half and double the driving time. Although my
             | Fiat Panda rental did surprisingly well on uneven, unpaved
             | roads.
        
               | kccqzy wrote:
               | I had the same experience even in Santa Clara County.
               | Google maps led me to drive on unpaved roads along the
               | farms near Gilroy in order to avoid the congested 101.
               | It's not worthwhile, and I'd argue Google should expose
               | an option to let me express my preference.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | We probably shouldn't be surprised that a navigation app
               | that tells you to make left turns during rush hour in San
               | Francisco doesn't behave any more rationally in rural
               | areas that _aren 't_ a stone's throw away from the
               | company's own headquarters.
               | 
               | Being able to express your preference isn't what Google
               | is all about. Their attitude is that they know best.
        
               | tethys wrote:
               | Had the exact same experience with Google Maps in Crete!
               | Although already a few years ago.
        
             | siva7 wrote:
             | i've also experienced this in a major german city. it's
             | awful how bad google has become since this update. apple
             | maps works as expected
        
           | rdiddly wrote:
           | Yep there are many private roads and driveways being shown as
           | part of the road network. Google treats private roads as just
           | roads. (Which is a pretty good analogy for how they treat
           | private information as just information, but I'm being
           | flippant.) I'm waiting for the wrongful-death suit by the
           | family of the shot trespasser.
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | An apt analogy, and I think your discussion of private
             | roads / driveways is accurate as to what the problem is.
             | 
             | I will never forget being led from a highway, to a side
             | road, to a gravel road, to a rougher gravel road, to a one
             | lane gravel road, to something that looked like a washed
             | out river at best, only to be blocked by a large steer
             | standing in the middle of the "road" that appeared to be as
             | stunned by my presence there as I was. I ended up having to
             | reverse quite a bit before I could find somewhere to turn
             | around. I deleted Google Maps shortly thereafter.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | stickfigure wrote:
           | > objectively incorrect decisions in rural areas that would
           | take me in quasi-off road situations
           | 
           | I would pay money for this feature.
        
         | dwighttk wrote:
         | I use Apple Maps when I use maps and haven't had any issue.
         | 
         | However I generally don't use any turn by turn instructions
         | until I'm close to a place I haven't been before.
         | 
         | Haven't used Google maps since my very first smartphone
         | (probably late 2011) kept trying to send me the wrong way down
         | one way streets in Atlanta.
        
         | adrr wrote:
         | How do you use Apple Maps in rural areas? The lack of an
         | offline mode makes it impossible to use without internet.
         | Google maps I can download the area.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | Yes. I stopped using Google Maps years ago because Apple's
         | estimates are far more accurate and less stressful (mostly DC-
         | Boston corridor). Google would suggest routes which were
         | allegedly faster but that was based on assuming no traffic
         | anywhere so things like unprotected left turns across major
         | roads would be a net time savings.
         | 
         | Actual arrival times tended to be about the same as Apple's
         | original estimates when, say, it turned out that I-95 really
         | did have traffic at the same places it always does.
        
           | zerocrates wrote:
           | Huh. I know for sure here (DC metro area) Google's navigation
           | definitely takes traffic into account both for time estimates
           | and routing. It'd be pretty useless otherwise: traffic is
           | pretty much the major component of travel time for many/most
           | trips.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | It seemed to take _current_ conditions into account - route
             | around areas that are already bad but it didn't seem to
             | account for typical volume at the time you'll likely be
             | somewhere. We used to get these routes showing normal
             | speeds all the way through NYC, even though it was obvious
             | that conditions would be different by the time we go there.
             | 
             | I'd hope they've improved it since then. I mostly stopped
             | using it because I'd get tons of unprotected left turns on
             | major roads or zig-zag routes through neighborhoods and it
             | just wasn't worth having to deal with that to save a
             | minute.
        
             | chipotle_coyote wrote:
             | I haven't used Google Maps in a while, but I remember
             | joking that it gave time estimates as if everyone was
             | driving Ferraris: they always seemed to be extremely
             | optimistic.
             | 
             | The OP's comment about Google's directions often giving you
             | things like unprotected left turns across major roads
             | matches my experience with Waze, so I wonder if Google is
             | pulling in more data/algorithms from them now. I know lots
             | of people love (loved?) Waze and I used to be one of them,
             | but I eventually just couldn't handle how almost every ride
             | with Waze had become the algorithmic equivalent of your
             | crazy uncle saying "I know a shortcut. Trust me."
        
         | h0l0cube wrote:
         | It's mostly fine. But I can't trust it to be up-to-date for
         | business locations and opening hours. Some places (even high-
         | traffic places like McDonalds) are missing, some closed places
         | haven't been removed after months (years?), and opening hours
         | are just as broken. I'll always double check with a Google
         | search. It's been fine for public transport and driving
         | navigation.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | I've had the occasional issue with location metadata but it's
           | pretty rare in my experience
        
           | chipotle_coyote wrote:
           | Business information in Apple Maps -- at least in the US --
           | comes from Yelp. I haven't really had the experiences you're
           | describing, but I live in northern California, where Yelp
           | seems to be pretty up-to-date most of the time. (With a
           | caveat that it's been worse in 2020, but I suppose that's not
           | unexpected for a crowdsourced directory during a year most of
           | the crowd wasn't going out.)
        
             | pfranz wrote:
             | I don't know if that's entirely true. I wouldn't say I lean
             | on business hours in the app often, but things have gotten
             | weird with Covid. In the last month I found a bunch of
             | hours wrong in both Yelp and Apple Maps--they each had
             | different wrong hours listed. Maybe Apple pulls from Yelp
             | monthly or quarterly? Maybe Apple populated their own
             | database years ago and maintain it separately? Whatever the
             | method they each have their own way for users to report
             | incorrect hours.
        
         | stevehawk wrote:
         | I consider Apple maps to be trash most everywhere I use it,
         | which is the American midwest. Last time i searched for
         | "lawnmower repair" in my area it netted one result. I believe
         | there's more than a dozen within ten minutes of me though. I
         | normally have to look something up in Google Maps (where i keep
         | location services disabled), then copy and paste the address
         | into Apple Maps for Carplay.
         | 
         | The other day when watching a Silicon Valley rerun I couldn't
         | help but laugh because they said "is it Apple maps bad?" and i
         | thought "THAT JOKE HASN'T AGED BECAUSE IT'S STILL TERRIBLE."
        
           | boopmaster wrote:
           | On the flipside Google maps gives me all kinds of local
           | business number to services that either do not exist or are
           | definitely not local. Pairs nicely with street view images of
           | destructed empty space overgrown with brush.
        
         | moogleii wrote:
         | I greatly prefer the UX of Apple Maps for navigation, but the
         | search is still bad compared to Google Maps. The verbal
         | directions and UI are clearer IMO.
         | 
         | Both have been equally bad at keeping directions up to date,
         | though, but I live in a relatively mutable city. If I were
         | living in the burbs, I would probably stick with Apple Maps.
        
         | illuminati1911 wrote:
         | I use Apple Maps in Shanghai. It's very fast, accurate and
         | shows bicycle/scooter lanes, indoor maps for malls etc. very
         | well.
         | 
         | Google Maps even with VPN (to bypass the censorship) is nearly
         | unusable here by modern map software standards.
        
           | kccqzy wrote:
           | Apple Maps in China is not powered by their own data. It's
           | data licensed from a third party (Gao De). Chinese law
           | prevents private citizens and corporations from mapping the
           | country unless with a special license.
           | 
           | But yes I agree with you from my own visit in Shanghai that
           | Google Maps is not worth using in China.
        
           | whimsicalism wrote:
           | It's not a fair comparison in China, where Apple has decided
           | to provide the Chinese govt with data so they can operate and
           | Google has refused to.
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | Source? Genuinely surprised to hear Google had the superior
             | privacy policy.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | Well, Google doesn't operate services in China so is not
               | giving data to China. If you look carefully in the TOS
               | for your Apple products, you'll see that iCloud data
               | (including like messages) are operated by Apple with the
               | exception of China, where they are operated by a third-
               | party contractor who does the dirty work of complying
               | with Chinese government speech laws/police requests.
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-
               | china-ce...
        
               | voisin wrote:
               | Interesting. I didn't realize Google did not operate any
               | services in China. I thought the Chinese government
               | filtered certain services that they didn't have the
               | ability to censor.
        
               | whimsicalism wrote:
               | Well, for instance, there is no Google.cn, there is only
               | Google Hong Kong.
               | 
               | Google Maps will still give you very basic maps in China,
               | but at least in both Beijing and Shanghai the maps are
               | unusable unfortunately.
               | 
               | You're correct that they are blocked by China. The reason
               | they are blocked is because they haven't built a censored
               | version of their search and don't provide China with data
               | from emails, etc. - this is in contrast with Apple's
               | approach. I don't know where it falls on censorship,
               | since Apple isn't in the search business, but my guess is
               | you would notice differences in Siri's behavior (for
               | instance).
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | I've been using Apple Maps exclusively for the last couple of
         | years.
         | 
         | I find it to be better, but there's a major caveat that I
         | primarily use it in the Bay Area.
         | 
         | Outside the bay it's worked for me too, but it's just rare that
         | I test it in that way (where failures are a lot more likely).
         | 
         | UI is much nicer and app performance feels way faster too.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | Same here, been using it for a few years in the Bay Area. The
           | main reason I prefer Apple Maps is that the user interface is
           | vastly better, especially in a car with CarPlay. I've used it
           | on long road trips in the US as well, but I will often do a
           | route sanity check against Google Maps in areas I'm very
           | unfamiliar with.
        
             | beagle3 wrote:
             | I only drive in rather large cities, and find that Waze >>
             | Apple >> Google from a usability perspective; Waze and
             | Google Maps supposedly Use the same backend these days, but
             | somehow both UI and navigation in Waze seems to work
             | better.
             | 
             | I really really like OSM through Organic Maps (previously
             | through maps.me) but it has no congestion data, so mostly
             | useless for driving during business hours.
        
         | ribit wrote:
         | Apple Maps is quite good if you use it one of the major US
         | cities... but it's still weak in most other places. As a
         | European customer, Google maps have more up to date
         | information, better traffic data, public construction
         | information etc.
        
           | benhurmarcel wrote:
           | I'm in Europe and use both depending on what I need. If you
           | don't know where you want to go yet, or you need data about a
           | business, Google is better. For the rest I prefer Apple's UX.
        
         | hackmiester wrote:
         | Spoken directions in Apple Maps are unmatched.
         | 
         | "Go past this stop sign, then at the light, turn right on X
         | Avenue" - it's exactly how you would expect human directions.
         | 
         | Google Maps is absolutely worst in class, behind all
         | competitors I have ever used, in spoken directions. Here is a
         | very common Google Maps direction from where I live: "In 300
         | feet, keep left toward Alabama 231 South / Alabama 431 South /
         | Memorial Parkway Southwest, then keep left onto Memorial
         | Parkway Southwest."
         | 
         | By the time Google Maps finishes reading this direction, it's
         | taken so long that you will actually miss the next step in the
         | directions. Google Maps doesn't interrupt itself in this
         | situation, and it is often extremely long winded.
         | 
         | Even when you start directions on Google Maps, you get a mostly
         | pointless, long-winded direction. "Head east on Pratt Avenue
         | Northeast." And if you start by traveling perpendicular to that
         | direction, you'll often get, "Head east on -- Head east on --
         | Head east on -- Head east on --", repeating every time you pass
         | an intersection, until you finally comply by heading east. Good
         | luck if you don't know which direction is east.
         | 
         | Speaking of this nightmare scenario, Google Maps will also get
         | stuck rapidly talking over itself if you accidentally select
         | walking directions, but you are driving. Apple Maps detects
         | this situation and automatically fixes it.
         | 
         | So I guess I use Apple Maps because it doesn't have any of
         | these extremely frustrating and borderline dangerous problems.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | _Even when you start directions on Google Maps, you get a
           | mostly pointless, long-winded direction. "Head east on Pratt
           | Avenue Northeast."_
           | 
           | Argh, don't you just love that. Hey, dumbasses: if I knew
           | which way was east, I wouldn't have needed to ask you!
        
         | spideymans wrote:
         | I've been using Apple Maps in Canada, and I'd say it's
         | decidedly better than the competition. Navigation is at least
         | as good as Google and Waze, and the UI/UX is far superior.
         | Biggest deficiency is search and POI information. I'll usually
         | search a location on Google Maps to get general information
         | about it, before using Apple Maps to navigate there.
        
         | chadlavi wrote:
         | I deleted google maps from my phone in 2017 or so and haven't
         | missed it at all.
        
         | vikingcaffiene wrote:
         | I made the switch back to Apple Maps a while back. It's great.
         | I'm not sure what specific features you want to know about.
        
         | zepto wrote:
         | I agree with the notion. It was pretty terrible for the first 3
         | years. A second place contender for a few years after that, but
         | for the last few years it has been clearly as good.
         | 
         | I am not going to enumerate strong and weak points. It's a
         | matter of taste at this point. Just try it again.
        
         | olivertaylor wrote:
         | I almost entirely use Apple Maps. I live in a large city so the
         | data is very accurate. And I only really use it for driving, so
         | I can't compare transit, hiking trails, etc. When I travel to
         | less populated parts of the country Google Maps is far more
         | accurate and complete. That's the only difference I've noticed.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Google Maps is pretty good for transit and pretty bad for
           | hiking trails. Can't speak to Apple Maps. While imperfect,
           | OpenStreetMaps is fairly reliable for hiking trails,
           | including unofficial ones, in populated areas of the US at
           | any rate.
        
             | chalst wrote:
             | Exactly the same experience in Germany. I use Google Maps
             | for driving directions and OSM for everything else.
             | 
             | I recently had GM tell me to go the wrong way up a one-way
             | street; OSM knew better.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | One thing that really winds me up is that the colour scheme in
         | google maps is 'wrong' in the sense that it does not match
         | existing local maps. Apple maps have put a lot of effort into
         | making the colour scheme and labels match existing maps. At
         | least where I live in the uk.
         | 
         | Motorways show up in blue with white-on-blue-rounded-rectangle
         | labels (matching road signs) with A-roads in green. Junction
         | numbers show up as white-in-black-rounded-rectangle like on
         | road signs. On google maps, the motorways and A-roads are
         | yellow. Motorways get blue labels but it's the wrong shade and
         | shape. A-road labels are slightly better. A failure of apple
         | maps is that they don't show junction numbers on the regular
         | maps while google does. But their maps mostly look like the
         | road atlases I remember.
         | 
         | If I look at public transport, apple have made a much better
         | attempt to match the look of underground maps in London
         | (failure example: the map doesn't make it obvious that the
         | jubilee line stops at green park.) Google maps don't get such
         | good results though they try to match colours of lines. Google
         | maps don't have national rail but apple do. If I look at New
         | York, apple have tried to capture the different style of their
         | metro network (also their American road labels look like the
         | road signs and this seems less the case for google but I don't
         | know so much about US road signs.)
         | 
         | The feature I really wish for, especially in car play, is plan
         | views of road junctions like roundabouts or weird
         | intersections. Neither maps app does this.
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | I used it occasionally, at one point it was better than GMaps
         | when data connection was spotty. But sooner or later I'd always
         | go back, because directions-related features always felt better
         | in the Google world.
         | 
         | This is in Northern England though. In the Big Smoke it might
         | be different.
        
         | hellisothers wrote:
         | Apple Maps has a different tracking/lag time on your location
         | compared to Google Maps such that every time I try to switch I
         | start missing (a lot of) turns while driving. Maybe it's time
         | to just get used to the different cursor...
        
           | tppiotrowski wrote:
           | This happens to me too. It's like the turn is very far away
           | and next thing you know you passed it. Apple needs to improve
           | this.
        
         | bengale wrote:
         | I use it as my primary GPS now and I live in south of the UK.
        
         | shanty wrote:
         | These conversations pop up every now and again on HN. I was
         | getting frustrated with Google Maps a few years ago, when I
         | read one of these articles on here about how Apple Maps is
         | better than Google Maps. I decided to give it a try (and fully
         | uninstalled GMaps so that I would be forced to use it.)
         | 
         | I live around Austin, TX, so there could be variations in my
         | experience, but generally for common use cases, Apple Maps is
         | on par. Where I find it excels above Google Maps is on
         | navigation and directions, hands down. When my wife puts on
         | Gmaps navigation on her phone I put on Apple Maps on mine. (we
         | have same phone and network). If there ever is a mistake, slow
         | update, mispronunciation, etc. it is always on Google Maps
         | side. This has cost us a lot of time, until we finally switched
         | over to rely on Apple Maps for navigation. The search and
         | interface are also about the same, but I prefer the Apple Maps
         | a bit more, but that is more personal preference.
         | 
         | Where it underperforms is in the search and reviews avenue, as
         | it primarily relies on yelp reviews rather than native reviews,
         | which can be hit or miss. I don't really miss it, but if it do,
         | I just search google for the place to read their reviews. Also,
         | Some place results lack correct details in Apple Maps (rare)--I
         | think since many places have to update the info themselves,
         | this might drive the issue. Example would be updated menu links
         | or hours for holidays.
         | 
         | Many of the other posts on this thread point out the
         | differences along other use cases, where Google Maps excels,
         | but for daily, average use, I am happy to use Apple Maps as
         | daily driver.
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | I prefer the driving and lane instructions on Apple Maps.
         | 
         | With a few notable exceptions it has gotten me where I'm going
         | every time.
         | 
         | The few exceptions are places near me where the address is a
         | bit wonky on Apple Maps and the driving instructions are either
         | completely bonkers (routes around a house through a parking lot
         | instead of directly) or off by one street. The address is
         | correct, but the access road doesn't have a name, so it gets
         | confused.
        
         | konart wrote:
         | Depends on your location. Apple maps is almost unusable here in
         | Russia.
         | 
         | Then again - even Google Maps have hard time competing with
         | Yandex and 2Gis
        
       | DevKoala wrote:
       | I haven't used Google maps since 2017. I started using Apple maps
       | once they fixed their issues in California and took the stance on
       | privacy.
       | 
       | I have never missed Google maps.
        
       | yawaworht1978 wrote:
       | Google maps has a couple annoying features, the main one being
       | the location arrow is confusing, I am by far not the only one
       | saying this. And as of recently, in some locations I have
       | been(large western European capitals) it is lagging, on different
       | networks and devices. Many wrong turns taken because of that,
       | this is very time consuming during peak traffic hours in large,
       | dense cities. Not sure about apple maps, but Google maps has me
       | on the fence considering changing the app.
       | 
       | Also is there a feature where I can save "school for kids",
       | "work", "sports"? I could not locate it.
        
       | cryptofistMonk wrote:
       | This article just showed me an ad with my exact last name
       | embroidered on a t-shirt... Bit ironic
        
         | TimMurnaghan wrote:
         | I never got to the article as I gave up after 25 "no" clicks on
         | the cookie form. (I know I could block better - but sometimes I
         | like to see the state of the bad ui design). Websites like
         | Forbes and The Conde Nast ones don't exist in my world as I
         | don't go there.
         | 
         | As to Apple maps I gave up when the dumped us in a field in
         | Norfolk (England). It was about 5 miles from the proper
         | destination, and no clue how to get to a road going there.
        
       | wayanon wrote:
       | Apple Maps in London UK is pretty bad with business info - I've
       | had to make correction reports for a few things in my
       | neighbourhood I never have to for Google Maps.
        
       | komuher wrote:
       | Google maps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apple maps here in Europe especially
       | for medium sized cities (in big cities apple works fine but still
       | a lot worse then google).
       | 
       | For me it seems like fair exchange to give some data, for free
       | and very good service that have no real competition :)
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | >Google maps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apple maps here in Europe
         | 
         | Apple has been creating their own map data and switching over
         | to it for a while now.
         | 
         | North America is complete and Europe is just starting with the
         | UK finished and online and the Iberian Peninsula just coming
         | online a month ago.
         | 
         | https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps-portugal-spain
        
         | ginko wrote:
         | Well in the medium sized Norwegian city I live in Google maps
         | doesn't have integration for the local public transport
         | company, but Apple maps does. It's also significantly more
         | responsive.
        
         | philjohn wrote:
         | I tried Apple Maps again recently to drive to my daughter's
         | school half an hour away.
         | 
         | Despite it stating that the destination was indeed that school,
         | I ended up in a residential street over 3 miles away.
         | 
         | The carplay interface of it also wasn't as easy to follow as on
         | Google Maps - which is surprising.
        
           | hobr wrote:
           | This happened to my wife and me just last night on the east
           | coast of the UK. We followed directions to a named restaurant
           | POI on Apple Maps and ended up in the middle of nowhere.
           | 
           | Google Maps took us right to the door.
        
           | gotbeans wrote:
           | I tried apple maps 2 years ago just because my android died
           | and my wife pulled out her iphone.
           | 
           | It was on a tahoe trip to ski, we happened to hit a snowstorm
           | that day. Apple Maps decided to optimize the route and
           | suggested a better route through a friggin road that passed
           | rather close to a ski station (could even look the name up).
           | 
           | We had a 4x4 and we were fine for the most part, but things
           | got really bad when descending, started loosing traction and
           | in one turn we actually slided and the snow stopped us on the
           | edge of a cliff, not even exagerating.
           | 
           | To be 100% clear, this is entirely our fault. We should have
           | been with chains from the very beginning. But it's still
           | shocking to me Apple Maps would suggest such a freaking route
           | in the middle of a snow storm. Would Gmaps have done the
           | same? Probably?
           | 
           | Experience was bad enough to swear never open AMaps again.
        
             | wrycoder wrote:
             | I've been using the Verizon map app for navigation for many
             | years. Until recently, it's been better for me than Google-
             | it's simplified, which is good when driving.
             | 
             | But it's not as reliable, in the sense that it sometimes
             | recommends seasonal roads that are closed in the winter and
             | even in the summer need AWD.
             | 
             | I haven't had any problem with Apple Maps, and I appreciate
             | the integration with the Apple Watch. So, I'm using it
             | more. Plus, the Yelp app connects to Apple Maps
             | automatically.
             | 
             | And I'm drifting away from Google, anyway.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | > But it's still shocking to me Apple Maps would suggest
             | such a freaking route in the middle of a snow storm.
             | 
             | I think you're significantly overestimating Apple's AI
             | efforts if you think that's shocking.
             | 
             | Google, _maybe_ they're smart enough to pull that off
             | today, but I'd be surprised.
             | 
             | However, I'm notoriously bad at predicting future tech, so
             | what do I know.
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | In the UK Apple Maps is my preferred choice for Navigation.
         | Google wins over finding actual places, though Apple Maps is
         | getting better fast> I also use Apple Maps driving in France
         | with no problems.
        
         | jbluepolarbear wrote:
         | I switched to Apple Maps a couple years ago and it's been much
         | better for me around the US; especially, Denver and Portland
         | areas. Google maps still has a lot of issues with navigating
         | around Portland.
        
         | Semaphor wrote:
         | Apple Maps is even worse? Because in my pop 200k city (somewhat
         | big for Germany), OSM has far better information already.
        
           | komuher wrote:
           | I think Germany is kinda special case in Europe (privacy laws
           | etc) so google maps are probably a lot worse then in the rest
           | of Europe :) [Never use google maps in Germany and i only
           | visited Germany once in my live :)]
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Yeah. I've used OpenStreetMap too, and while it does tend to be
         | more accurate than Apple Maps, Google Maps is _still_
         | unmatched. If you 're on an iPhone, I'd recommend you switch to
         | OpenStreetMaps at the very least.
        
         | FlyingSnake wrote:
         | OpenStreetMap >>>>>>>>> Google maps pretty much everywhere in
         | EU (and RoW). I had better data in Harz, Bohemian Switzerland,
         | Girona, Laos, Indian jungles etc which was way better than what
         | Google provides.
         | 
         | I would rather give my data to the qualitatively better option
         | OSM than a controversial foreign firm that has questionable
         | stance on user privacy.
        
           | hk__2 wrote:
           | Really? In my experience (Europe, mostly France/Italy),
           | OpenStreetMap has a lot more details than Google on "long-
           | term features": roads, (hiking) paths, public toilets and
           | fountains, etc; while Google is a lot better for POIs and
           | restaurants/bars/museums/etc. On a given street, OSM will
           | have the exact position of every tree but not so much about
           | restaurants, while with GM you get their opening hours,
           | ratings, menus, etc. Also, GM has public transports in a lot
           | of cities.
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | In brand new neighbourhoods, I've also found OSM much
             | better than Google Maps. E.g., lots of new developments in
             | Cambridge were extremely well annotated whereas Google Maps
             | didn't even have streetnames. This is super helpful when
             | you are shopping for a new property.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | It's a rare opportunity when I get to map actual new
               | roads. Usually it's filling in details like a trash bin
               | here, a hedge there... roads are a much more important
               | core feature. If you ever spot an unmapped neighborhood,
               | just let me know! ;)
        
               | _delirium wrote:
               | I spot them pretty often in the suburbs and exurbs of
               | American cities. Those areas tend not to have as many
               | active mappers as urban areas, so new subdivisions
               | sometimes go a while before anyone maps them. Even then
               | the first-cut mapping is usually someone not actually
               | there just tracing from the Bing imagery.
        
               | darekkay wrote:
               | When I moved into a new neighbourhood, the street name
               | was on neither map. I've updated both. OSM update was
               | fast. Google took several months to update, even though I
               | had provided official documents as requested. The
               | frustrating thing was that most delivery companies had
               | issues during this time. Also, some online shops didn't
               | consider my address valid.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | But google maps will get the opening hours bad more often
             | than not due to COVID changes. And frankly, I am fed up
             | with google - I used to help correcting said hours in the
             | earlier contributor model, but will no longer do so since
             | there is no reason to feed data into that monstrosity that
             | doesn't give back anything in return to society.
        
           | jshmrsn wrote:
           | May I ask what RoW stands for? Google isn't being helpful
           | since it's just the word "row".
        
             | schlu wrote:
             | I think they mean "Rest of (the) World"
        
             | jbullock35 wrote:
             | Republic of Wales
        
           | TheTrotters wrote:
           | OSM doesn't seem to have public transportation data which
           | makes it useless unless you exclusively use a car.
        
             | darekkay wrote:
             | That'a not true. It may be missing in your area, but it is
             | a core feature of OSM.
        
           | komuher wrote:
           | Dunno about google maps in Germany (cause of German laws) but
           | in Italy, Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Austria (all places that
           | i visited in europe and use google maps) i found google maps
           | to be excellent but i didnt use OSM for like last 3 years so
           | cant speak about that :) * And still OSM was a lot better
           | then Apple maps few years ago.
        
             | post-factum wrote:
             | In .cz there's mapy.cz, BTW.
        
               | pomian wrote:
               | Mapy.cz works globally. It's excellent. Don't have to
               | share anything.
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | Unfortunately the best feature isn't global: https://en.m
               | apy.cz/ceskoza100?x=16.7243354&y=49.3595814&z=8
        
               | whoisstan wrote:
               | Nicely done. Are there other overlays like this?
        
           | sukritikapoor wrote:
           | Google Maps has unmatched traffic data accuracy, especially
           | here in India where it has literally hundreds of millions of
           | Android devices moving on roads.
        
           | WA wrote:
           | Map data yes, traffic data no. And the latter is quite
           | important for driving.
        
         | bjohnson225 wrote:
         | Yeah, the data on Apple Maps is just not good enough here. The
         | opening hours are frequently just wrong and can't be trusted.
         | 
         | Part of the reason for that is they use Yelp as a data source
         | which is pretty much non-existent here. If I look at a popular
         | local restaurant on Apple Maps (one which has thousands of
         | reviews on both Google and TripAdvisor) then the opening hours
         | are just wrong and seemingly pulled from Yelp where the
         | restaurant is unclaimed and has just 9 reviews, all in English
         | rather than the native language.
        
           | ehsankia wrote:
           | That's what many don't realize. Apple shows really fantastic
           | and detailed 3D handcrafted maps each year at WWDC, then when
           | you dig deeper, you find out that it's only for like 3
           | American cities and it's coming in a year... Basically
           | useless for 99% of people.
           | 
           | While Maps also has some discrepancies between cities and
           | also different countries, in general it's a lot more
           | consistent and features roll out more widely.
        
             | pfranz wrote:
             | You make it sound like Apple's efforts stop after
             | announcing at WWDC. They do seem to be following through.
             | The "new maps" were announced in 2018. They finished the
             | continental US in January 2020 and since expanded to
             | Canada, UK, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and Italy with the
             | most previous update released last month.
             | 
             | Justin O'Beirne has followed Google/Apple maps in detail
             | for years https://www.justinobeirne.com/
             | 
             | Forbes is an American business magazine and the author
             | covers cover security and surveillance. So I wouldn't think
             | his advice is meant for everyone.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | theshrike79 wrote:
           | Yeah, over here most Yelp reviews are utter crap. Maybe 1-4
           | reviews and the average is around 2 stars for really good
           | places.
        
         | cassianoleal wrote:
         | In London I find Apple Maps superior to Google Maps in almost
         | every way.
         | 
         | Apple's cycling routing is miles ahead of Google's.
        
           | vagrantJin wrote:
           | > In London I find Apple Maps superior to Google Maps in
           | almost every way
           | 
           | Google Maps is good in a backwater town in some country
           | you've never heard of.
        
             | cromwellian wrote:
             | You mean like Karachi, Pakistan? Is that a backwater town
             | to you?
        
           | komuher wrote:
           | Good for you one mega-city in Europe* got proper apple
           | treatment after 10 years lets wait 20 more years for other
           | monster cities, and then they can maybe add some cities under
           | a 10 million population :D
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | What's the other option? Google is the only internet map
             | ever? Or no other internet map can ever release anything
             | until they have perfect global coverage?
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | I don't think Apple needs perfect coverage, just more
               | than "parts of the USA and 10 major cities worldwide".
        
               | folli wrote:
               | How about OSM?
        
               | incone123 wrote:
               | Love osm and osmand, but if I'm travelling in town then I
               | go to Google map for real time traffic and public
               | transit.
        
               | extra88 wrote:
               | What is a good iOS app for turn-by-turn directions
               | (driving, biking, walking, public transit) that uses
               | OpenStreetMap data?
        
               | distances wrote:
               | Organic Maps is IMHO the most usable OSM app for Android.
               | It's available also for iOS, no idea if it's 1-to-1 but
               | worth giving it a try.
        
               | tppiotrowski wrote:
               | Organic Maps is amazing. For hiking and climbing it has
               | routes that Google and Apple do not put on their maps.
               | For offline mode you can download entire US states or
               | countries and the search is instant once you've
               | downloaded the data to your phone. I still use
               | Google/Apple Maps for navigation, but mostly because I've
               | never give Organic Maps navigation a try.
        
               | extra88 wrote:
               | It's in the store. It touts working offline, do you have
               | save map data for an area first or can you use it the
               | same way as other map apps?
               | 
               | I've used Google Maps' offline saving feature when
               | traveling internationally and where cell service is poor
               | or absent.
               | 
               | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/organic-maps/id1567437057
        
               | distances wrote:
               | It works only offline. You download the area before you
               | can zoom in; there's no online tile-on-demand.
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | OM is ok, but the contours are coarse and in meters. I
               | use Gaia, which has far more capability and also works
               | offline. But, note that Gaia has been bought recently by
               | Outside. I'm concerned about maintaining privacy, based
               | on the email they sent.
               | 
               | I should mention that Apple Maps, being vector based, can
               | be pre-downloaded using the hotel wifi when you are in a
               | roaming area and will work for many blocks around the
               | hotel without using the radios. Google won't.
        
           | woadwarrior01 wrote:
           | Same in Dublin, Ireland. Here, the quality of Apple Maps
           | improved significantly about a year ago.
        
             | cianmm wrote:
             | Their shop/restaurant opening times are still totally
             | useless though. I live in Stoneybatter (next effectively 15
             | min walk from the city centre for those not from Dublin)
             | and I'd estimate that at least 1/3rd of the correct
             | waypoints, opening times, and associated data in the area
             | is from me slowly correcting stuff over the last few years.
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | For restaurants, etc, I usually start with Yelp, which
               | uses Apple Maps for navigation. I get the rest of the
               | details from Yelp. (I'm in the US)
        
           | tpush wrote:
           | Apple Maps tends to be better in English speaking countries,
           | or otherwise where there's a lot of iPhones. Google Maps is
           | almost universally better anywhere else.
        
           | airpoint wrote:
           | For cycling in London, in my experience:
           | 
           | CityMapper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple Maps >>>>> Google
           | Maps
        
           | andylynch wrote:
           | It is, though one thing apple could improve is the feedback
           | on errors- it's routing thinks some major streets are one way
           | here and that others aren't which seems hard to fix.
        
           | madeofpalk wrote:
           | I was very happy when Apple "finally" added cycling
           | directions in London. That was the only reason why I used
           | Google Maps.
           | 
           | Apple does give me some funky directions through Victoria
           | Park, though I'm always surprised when any map service can
           | route through parks somewhat well.
        
             | saurik wrote:
             | Why did you switch?
        
               | sbuk wrote:
               | > I was very happy when Apple "finally" added cycling
               | directions in London. That was the only reason why I used
               | Google Maps.
        
               | saurik wrote:
               | Yes: I absolutely understood the catalyst, but not the
               | reason. I will rephrase my question: why did you _want_
               | to switch? Is that less confusing? The person I am
               | responding to seemed eager to leave Google Maps, but
               | couldn 't because of one critical feature; once that
               | critical feature was there, removing the reason they had
               | not to switch... but, there still had to be some
               | remaining reason why the person switched: a reason that
               | had caused them to be waiting to switch this whole time
               | (and while I have some ideas as to what that reason might
               | be, it isn't at all obvious which one and I didn't want
               | to bias the answer by suggesting any). Is this really
               | such a strange concept? :(
        
               | benhurmarcel wrote:
               | Personally I prefer using Apple Maps when possible
               | because the app is a lot more fluid, it has a dark mode,
               | and it feels better about privacy.
        
         | Clampower wrote:
         | Apple Maps doesn't even have cycling navigation in Amsterdam
         | lol.
         | 
         | Literally unusable.
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | Apple Maps doesn't have cycling navigation anywhere, kinda
           | strange for such a hip and (self proclaimed) environmentally
           | conscious company. That renders it literally unusable
           | anywhere, IMHO.
           | 
           | [Edit: I just learned from another comment that Apple Maps
           | _does_ have cycling directions at least in London, which I
           | didn't know about]
        
             | andylynch wrote:
             | It does as part of the 'New Maps' but very limited
             | geographically unless you're in China, California, or a few
             | other cities- see https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-
             | availability/#maps-cycling
        
       | jhpauley wrote:
       | Why post shit that's behind a paywall? Really, why?
        
       | unclewalter wrote:
       | I love the way Apple Maps gives turn by turn directions: "go past
       | these lights and at the next set, turn left". Just way more
       | understandable as a ... human.
       | 
       | However, it commonly gives me just the wrong destination. Just
       | the other day, it put me five blocks away from the actual address
       | in Downtown LA. Which is... well, suboptimal.
        
       | beefman wrote:
       | Apple's driving coverage has been improving and is now as good as
       | Google's in the SF Bay area. Google is still better at walking
       | directions (especially involving building access), and I'm sure
       | their coverage is superior globally. Apple doesn't support multi-
       | point itineraries and doesn't have depart at / arrive by
       | functionality, which can be very useful.
       | 
       | Apple has generally copied Google's mobile UI approach, which has
       | been devolving for a few years now (2018 brought the large and
       | useless bottom "explore" panel IIRC). Google's iOS app is almost
       | impossible to use as an actual map now -- it's exceedingly
       | difficult to pan, orient, or zoom to inspect things. Everything
       | you do has to be part of some flow that somebody designed, while
       | it flashes surveys at you. Trying to do anything else just
       | bounces you between flows in a loop. It's become and idiot app to
       | the point that I wonder how those involved sleep at night.
        
         | pfranz wrote:
         | > Apple doesn't support multi-point itineraries
         | 
         | I've never tried multi-point itineraries with Google Maps, but
         | the new iOS beta has an "add stop" feature. It's not exactly
         | what I was hoping for because it only has predefined searches
         | ("food", "gas", etc). What it does is pause your original trip
         | with a button to continue. If it could do a generic search
         | along the route it would be exactly what I need most of the
         | time without being too confusing to use.
        
         | aiddun wrote:
         | Apple Maps in iOS 15 will have leave at/arrive by. I've been
         | using it in the beta
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | For an iPad, I find the apple ma-s ui much better. E.g. for
         | search results in portrait, apple give you a column on the side
         | (so you can see the map) but google fill your screen with
         | results which makes more sense on a small phone. Google do the
         | same "better" thing in landscape. I also find Apple's street
         | view copy much nicer to use but obviously they have the late-
         | mover advantage. Google now have a poor copy of this interface
         | but it's hidden away.
        
       | Spooky23 wrote:
       | Imo Apple does easier directions.
       | 
       | Sometimes, going on some weird detour with Waze is appealing.
       | Apples routes are usually a few minutes longer.
        
       | thedougd wrote:
       | In a Honda with Android Auto and Carplay, Google Maps on Android
       | will take advantage of both vehicle displays whereas Carplay will
       | not. The next turn and distance until next turn is displayed on
       | the speedometer display while showing the full map and UI on the
       | dashboard center display.
       | 
       | Is this broadly true or specific to vehicle?
        
       | aeharding wrote:
       | Apple Maps needs to provide bicycle directions in my city
       | (Madison, Wisconsin). Until then, it's literally nonfunctional
       | for the vast majority of my trips.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | Even though Apple Maps is improving rapidly, Google Maps usually
       | gives me slightly better results.
       | 
       | But, I use Apple Maps almost always because of two things:
       | privacy, and because of my Apple Watch.
       | 
       | If I need Google Maps then I run it from Safari on my iPhone.
        
       | plank_time wrote:
       | I use Apple CarPlay almost exclusively now, and will never buy a
       | car that doesn't support it anymore.
       | 
       | When using navigation, I will often use Apple Maps. Their biggest
       | advantage is that their directions will say "after the next stop
       | sign, turn right at the following traffic light." Thats so much
       | more useful than most other Map apps. So in the city, I prefer
       | Apple Maps. If I need the shortest route including traffic or if
       | I need to drive fast and watch out for cops, I will use Waze.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | In my experience Apple does a pretty great job with redirecting
         | around traffic and stuff too. I'm sure it won't be as good as
         | Waze since that's their whole thing, but it's plenty good
         | enough for me
        
       | stuart78 wrote:
       | I've been using Apple Maps since getting my first CapPlay
       | compatible car. I switched because the Google Maps app was (and
       | remains) awful to use. GM forces you to view a very small view of
       | where you are going next. Multiple click to access trip view and
       | custom map scale. In contrast, Apple Maps makes it easy to toggle
       | between multiple views with one click and the UI is less
       | cluttered.
       | 
       | Personally, I like to use the map to occasionally update my
       | mental map, not for turn by turn spoon-feeding. Apple's app makes
       | this much more convenient.
       | 
       | Additionally, bookmarking in Google Maps remains primitive and
       | hard to manage. Apple introduced collections over the last few
       | years which are great.
       | 
       | What I miss the most about Google Maps is the photos, which are
       | generally better than Yelp (and don't open a new app).
       | 
       | Apple has work to do outside of US, but their maps make steady
       | progress year after year, and if the US indicate where rest of
       | the world is headed, things will get better.
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | i would be in a minority here but i use osmand+ on my phone. in
       | my city, openstreetmaps is still in its infancy relatively
       | speaking so what i do is, if i go somewhere and i see problem
       | spots, wrong turn or missing road or a point, intersection or
       | something. I just mark it and once home, i update the map for
       | everyone.
       | 
       | while this might not be for everyone. It is time consuming for me
       | but i find this a good exercise for myself. i use streetcomplete
       | (android app) often to update the streets and that is a good
       | feature of openstreetmaps
        
         | toastal wrote:
         | 100% this spirit. I like how I can take an active role in my
         | community helping with this kinda stuff. I ask business owners
         | all sorts of missing details you can't add to the other maps.
         | Some people have laughed when my maps are appear empty in some
         | places, but when I show them how easy it was to meaningfully
         | contribute and the aforementioned details, I hear comments of
         | jealousy.
        
       | barneybooroo wrote:
       | I mostly rely on audio turn by turn walking directions (in
       | London) and was surprised how bad Google Maps was. For example,
       | it would give directions like "head south on High Street" as if I
       | know which way south is?
       | 
       | Apple Maps isn't perfect but I can just about rely on audio for
       | navigating (and the occasional glance for everything else)
        
       | ehsankia wrote:
       | I'm curious what the privacy labels for Google Maps in Incognito
       | mode would be. The thing with the labels is that you have to list
       | all the labels as if all the features were enabled and set to the
       | least private option. Google maps has over a decade of features
       | that people use and love.
       | 
       | For example, I personally would be outraged if they removed
       | Timeline, which I rely on daily, but that feature alone probably
       | adds a dozen privacy labels, even though it's optional.
        
         | aeromusek wrote:
         | The other difference is that Google Maps has to build
         | everything into the app directly. The privacy label for Apple
         | Maps gets a 'free ride' on _so_ many things by virtue of
         | piggybacking on OS-level functionality.
         | 
         | Same thing applies to Messages vs. WhatsApp/Messenger and bunch
         | of others.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-10 23:01 UTC)