[HN Gopher] Google "bought off Samsung" to limit app store compe...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google "bought off Samsung" to limit app store competition, 36
       states allege
        
       Author : nabla9
       Score  : 204 points
       Date   : 2021-07-09 09:59 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | > _[...] which Samsung did in 2018 when it partnered with Epic to
       | launch Fortnite exclusively on the Galaxy Store. [...] Samsung
       | apparently pursued other exclusives with "popular" app developers
       | [...]_
       | 
       | So an alternative app store provided by the largest maker of
       | Android phones, which pursues exclusive apps that will then only
       | be available for Samsung phones, is supposed to be _good_ for
       | competition?
        
       | LatteLazy wrote:
       | Careful taking lawsuit claims seriously. Especially then the
       | claim drops from doing X to "attempting X" by paragraph 2 and by
       | paragraph 6 is just being "willing" to attempt X.
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | All of the phrasing you take issue with is directly from the
         | linked complaint. The complaint flatly alleges Google "bought
         | off Samsung" (as quoted in the headline) and that Google was
         | both willing to attempt to buy off Samsung and did indeed
         | attempt to do so. They are the logical order of events, no? I
         | can't have bought someone off without first having attempted to
         | buy them off and before _that_ having been willing to buy them
         | off.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | GavinMcG wrote:
           | The point I think OP was making is that you can say anything
           | with a reasonable evidentiary basis in a complaint. (And some
           | lawyers don't bother with the evidentiary basis part--see the
           | post-election lawsuits that are being sanctioned for just
           | that.)
           | 
           | It's not about whether the language is in the article or the
           | legal document; the legal document itself is merely a lawyer
           | saying something that is in their client's interest.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | The actual complaint is linked in the article if you don't like
         | Are Technica's writing.
        
           | LatteLazy wrote:
           | I'm just saying, title doesn't match content doesn't match
           | actual complaint...
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | It might be better if you contact Ars Technica's editors
             | instead of sound off about it on HN.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | What type of response is this? "if there are any
               | inaccuracies send them to the editor rather than make a
               | comment"? Adding a comment to inform other readers seems
               | like the correct thing to do and happens fairly often on
               | other comment sections.
        
               | LatteLazy wrote:
               | You think they're more likely to listen given I've
               | already been flagged by HN circle jerk?
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | If true it makes their smart watch joint venture interesting. Did
       | google force samsung to stop using tizen on their smart watches?
       | Pay them a large sum of money to get wearOS back in the game?
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | Most of Samsung's seemingly odd back and forth antics can be
         | explained by realizing that:
         | 
         | Samsung is the manufacturer most capable of forking Android and
         | telling Google to shove it, and that most of their product
         | development has been making sure that it's possible to do so
         | (Galaxy Store, Bixby, Tizen watches, etc.)
         | 
         | And that Google, knowing Samsung has the brand loyalty and wide
         | userbase to devastate Android's market share, is in a constant
         | effort to pay Samsung to stop pushing them away.
         | 
         | So they built competitors to Google's product library, and then
         | Google pays them to push a Google product anyways, and then
         | they build a competitor to the next Google product, and wait
         | for the check from Google for them to shelve it... Through this
         | back and forth, Samsung both ends up with a competitive
         | ecosystem to Google ready-to-go if they need it, and an
         | extremely lucrative pile of concessions from Google that Google
         | would've preferred to not have to give them.
        
           | bythckr wrote:
           | I feel that the software products & services that Samsung
           | builds is half-baked. It might be a pressure tactic to ensure
           | Google keeps paying.
           | 
           | Also, I am wonder what happened of Samsung & Microsoft plans
           | of Samsung shelving its app & services for Microsoft. I feel
           | that was the "real motivation" for Google to start paying.
           | 
           | Google needs to be challenged for an improvement in Android
           | space. They should stop rushing in half baked stuff and
           | instead work on releasing reliable & well tested products.
           | 
           | As a person that actively used android, iOS, Linux, Windows &
           | Mac, Apple's stuffs just work and it's high time the
           | competition catches up.
           | 
           | As for Android, we need to have flavour / custom ROMs that is
           | 100% degoogled and with proper alternatives. Ubuntu,
           | Microsoft & LinageOS all need to up their game and get more
           | people involved.
        
             | selestify wrote:
             | As another person who's used all of those OS's as well,
             | Apple's stuff sadly does not "just work" anymore for me,
             | but it does still work better than other ones
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | apple has an order of magnitude fewer device models to
             | support. I'm not sure android will ever have similar
             | performance and feature support as apple - the business
             | models are so totally different.
        
       | throwaway1777 wrote:
       | 38 states is enough for a constitutional amendment. Makes you
       | wonder.
        
         | tinalumfoil wrote:
         | It's a much higher bar to ratify a constitutional amendment
         | than to sue Google.
        
           | throwaway1777 wrote:
           | Agreed. Mainly I think it's interesting that we can get that
           | many states to come together on anything. Generally the
           | red/blue divide is very strong.
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | States agree on many things. You can see some of them with
             | these kinds of search queries.
             | https://www.google.com/search?q=%22all+50+states+agree%22
             | 
             | They wouldn't have nearly as much agreement if each was
             | presented as a constitutional amendment, of course.
        
           | gunapologist99 wrote:
           | And then there would be other actual Constitutional issues to
           | deal with, too:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder#Constitution.
           | ..
        
             | mullingitover wrote:
             | If you manage to herd all the necessary cats and actually
             | amend the Constitution, you don't have to worry about
             | conflicts - that's the whole point of doing an amendment,
             | you're changing the Constitution. Only laws can conflict
             | with the Constitution.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | deregulateMed wrote:
       | After my S5, an SSD, and a Samsung TV, I've learned that Samsung
       | delivers medium/low quality products at high prices through
       | relentless marketing.
       | 
       | Any company that needs to advertise as much as
       | Samsung/Apple/Jeep/Nintendo should be cause for skepticism.
        
         | whitepaint wrote:
         | I got my Samsung phone recently for ~$200 and it is absolutely
         | amazing. I've had 4 by now from them, and they've all be great
         | imo.
         | 
         | Which companies produce better phones?
        
           | nodejs_rulez_1 wrote:
           | Any company that does major OS updates more than twice?
           | Apple? Then again, Samsung doesn't try to deliberately slow
           | my phone down or drain the battery. So no company I guess.
           | Everyone is churning out pretty-looking garbage.
        
             | slownews45 wrote:
             | Because it helps the customer everyone has copied Apple on
             | battery management. If you don't like it turn it off and
             | just let your phone die.
        
             | foobiekr wrote:
             | Samsung absolutely does battery drain management. Every
             | single vendor does.
        
         | thatguy0900 wrote:
         | Nintendo might not release cutting edge hardware, but they're
         | pretty much the only big video game company left that doesn't
         | openly release half finished games with the intention to maybe
         | fix them a few months later.
        
           | asddubs wrote:
           | they also seem to be the least guilty of adding
           | microtransactions to everything. Although I haven't kept up
           | with nintendo devices, so I'm not sure if this is still as
           | true on the switch.
        
           | deregulateMed wrote:
           | This stopped being true with the Switch.
        
             | the_doctah wrote:
             | Gonna need sources on that claim
        
               | mcphage wrote:
               | Super Mario Party was not up to their content standards--
               | the minigames were good, but there were only 4 boards,
               | and they were both tiny and dull. Animal Crossing is a
               | mixed bag--it has stuff previous entries don't, and is
               | missing a lot that previous entries contained. But that
               | might have gotten derailed due to Covid. The Mario Golf
               | game that just came out supposedly has minimal content
               | too, but I haven't played it.
               | 
               | On the other hand, it's not universal--New Pokemon Snap
               | is a sequel to a game that could be completed in ~5
               | hours, and is absolutely filled with content.
        
               | vimacs2 wrote:
               | . . . That's not what people mean when they say "half
               | finished". It's when a game with a defined scope fails to
               | meet that scope. You might not like the dearth of content
               | with those titles but there is no indication that they
               | were ever meant to go beyond what was provided on
               | release.
        
               | mcphage wrote:
               | I certainly can't speak to what their defined scope was--
               | generally Nintendo doesn't specify, and when they do say
               | something--like saying Animal Crossing was designed to
               | have "two or three years worth of content"--there's no
               | indication what that actually _means_. All I can speak to
               | is, when playing a game, does this game feel complete and
               | finished? Traditionally Nintendo has been pretty good
               | about that. Recently, not so much. I 've been playing
               | Mario Party since the late 90s, you develop a feel for
               | what Nintendo considers a complete release. Whether
               | that's changed _intentionally_ not, is pretty immaterial.
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | Samsung SSD prices are in line with other vendors. The Galaxy
         | Note II was a very high-quality smartphone. Can't say anything
         | about Samsung TVs, never owned one.
        
         | tyleo wrote:
         | You lost me at Samsung/Apple/Jeep/Nintendo. I'd definitely put
         | Apple in the top tier of phone and laptop quality. Especially
         | w.r.t laptops, the majority of Windows devices seem
         | comparatively low quality. I'm not sure about their other
         | products but I also don't see them advertised as much.
         | 
         | Similarly with Nintendo, they seem to deliver consistently
         | higher quality than competitors. They may not be as fast but
         | they last for years and deliver equal or more enjoyment at a
         | lower price point.
         | 
         | A product is more than it's specs.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | > I'd definitely put Apple in the top tier of phone and
           | laptop quality. Especially w.r.t laptops, the majority of
           | Windows devices seem comparatively low quality. I'm not sure
           | about their other products but I also don't see them
           | advertised as much.
           | 
           | Every MBP/MBA/MB had design flaws. From butterfly keyboard to
           | discrete GPU, only 1 port (USB-C, for battery), etc. They
           | fixed the keyboard problem finally, but from 2016-2019 it was
           | terrible.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I have yet to see a better laptop for 90% of people who
             | want a laptop than a MacBook Air. Battery life,
             | portability, weight, heat production, reliability, adequate
             | performance, price, ports.
             | 
             | They seem to have made all the right compromises.
        
               | anotherman554 wrote:
               | "Price" seems like a stretch. Windows laptops start at
               | something like $700 dollars cheaper for a new device.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | And they are made of inferior quality components not
               | comparable to an Air. See used prices for evidence.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | You get a graphics card for $550, many types of ports...
               | And you think the Air is Superior?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | For most people who just want basic spreadsheet, web
               | browsing, photo managing, email, word processing, or
               | other similar purposes where a graphics card makes no
               | difference, yes.
               | 
               | We are long past the times where the average person needs
               | to even think about laptop specs other than whether or
               | not it has a sufficient size SSD, the battery life is
               | long, and it does not get hot.
        
               | gfxgirl wrote:
               | Here you are arguing people don't need any power because
               | all they do is "basic spreadsheet, web browsing, photo
               | managing, email, word processing, or other similar
               | purposes" in which case they can get 3-4 windows laptops
               | for $199-$299 for the price of one air. If you have 3
               | teens that all need a laptop to do "basic spreadsheet,
               | web browsing, photo managing, email, word processing, or
               | other similar purposes" you can cover them all for $900
               | if you go non Mac or you can spend nearly $3k if you go
               | mac.
               | 
               | I'm posting this from a Mac but my sister is unlikely to
               | ever decide she's willing to spend 3x to 40% more for a
               | laptop. She can get 2 Dells with 8gig of ram and 256gig
               | of storage, same as the Air for under half the price of
               | the Air. I'm not saying the Dell is as good as the Air
               | and neither is a Kia as good as a BMW (probably) but a
               | Kia costs 1/2 the price and will still get you from point
               | A to point B and a $300-$500 Windows PC will also still
               | do "basic spreadsheet, web browsing, photo managing,
               | email, word processing, or other similar purposes"
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Is the probability of the $300 windows laptop performing
               | 5+ years the same? Will it run hot in your lap? Will you
               | have to recharge it 3x as often? Will you have to spend
               | time uninstalling malware first? Will it have a screen
               | comparable to a retina screen? Will you be able to shut
               | the lid and walk away at a moments notice?
               | 
               | Going back to my very first comment:
               | 
               | > They seem to have made all the right compromises.
               | 
               | Yes, a MacBook Air is not the cheapest. It doesn't have a
               | GPU. But my point is what it does have provides more
               | utility overall to the average buyer per dollar spent.
               | 
               | And there are other manufacturers that have come out with
               | similarly good machines at similar prices, but whether it
               | is because of Windows' shortcomings or now M1, the Air
               | seems to be the ideal.
        
               | anotherman554 wrote:
               | I never claimed they had the same components, just that
               | it's a stretch to think most people would obtain
               | sufficient value by paying hundreds more.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | That is possible, but a new Air was $900 for the longest
               | time. $700 cheaper is a laptop starting at $200, and I
               | don't believe any laptop even $500 or less would have
               | been made with components likely to last for many years.
               | 
               | It's like that story about a poor person having to spend
               | more in the long run buying boots every year than being
               | able to spend a little more to buy ones that lasted many
               | years.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | The price is poor and the performance is worse(compared
               | to anything with a GPU). Reliability is questionable
               | given the numerous hardware issues Apple denied over the
               | years.
               | 
               | And I'm shocked you thought to mention Ports. I've been
               | at parties where someone couldn't present a PowerPoint
               | because of the ports on the Air.
        
               | kbelder wrote:
               | >I've been at parties where someone couldn't present a
               | PowerPoint because of the ports on the Air.
               | 
               | You go to fun parties.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | They started at $900, had 2 USB 3.0 ports, a headphone
               | jack, an SD card slot, and a thunderbolt 2 port for many
               | years.
               | 
               | Again, note the nuance in my statement that it serves the
               | purpose for the vast majority of laptop users and its
               | amortized cost over many years is certainly less than
               | other consumer laptops, as evidenced by the used market.
               | 
               | Nowadays, they are $1k, and they have Retina screen, 2
               | USB4/Thunderbolt3 ports. While the port situation may
               | have worsened, its performance due to M1 is surely
               | unmatched. Unless you are bothered by the port situation,
               | it's still probably the best bet you can make for a
               | laptop that will be a good to go for 5+ years.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | Majority of laptop users won't need to hook up their
               | computer to a TV?
               | 
               | And M1 still is inferior to having a gpu.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | >Majority of laptop users won't need to hook up their
               | computer to a TV?
               | 
               | I would be very surprised if even 10% of people connect
               | their laptops to TVs. For those that do, thunderbolt to
               | hdmi adapters are cheap.
               | 
               | > And M1 still is inferior to having a gpu.
               | 
               | I am sure it is, but average person sees no utility from
               | a GPU, but they do utilize long battery life and less
               | heat from reduced energy usage of M1.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | Apple not good for power users. Got it.
               | 
               | So why would a consumer who isn't a power user spend more
               | money on less?
               | 
               | Lighted logo?
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | They don't have lighted logos, as far as I know. Mine
               | doesn't from a few years ago. I've already replied a
               | bunch of times showing why I think the laptop is ideal
               | for most people.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | I can't imagine people paying 450$ more for a handicapped
               | computer because battery life. Do 90% of people use a
               | computer without it being plugged in?
               | 
               | I can see 90% of people buying a logo. "I say 123 take
               | your hand and come with me bc you look so fine that I
               | really want to make you mine"
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Yes, I would easily bet the average person values not
               | worrying about battery and heat. Coffee shops, lecture
               | halls, airplanes, or even just around the house. It is
               | amazingly liberating to almost never have to worry about
               | charging it, and just be able to close the lid at a
               | moments notice and not worry about Windows' problems
               | hibernating or standby or whatever.
               | 
               | Look at the comments in this thread:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27784640
               | 
               | And it's not $450 more for just that. It's $450 more for
               | a higher quality product with higher quality components
               | that have a higher probability of lasting many years
               | (based on the track record of MacBook Airs).
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | It's not higher quality. You just said so.
               | 
               | Yikes.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | No, I did not. Higher quality components is not the same
               | as higher specs. For example, I would bet that Apple is
               | using components binned for higher survival rates, than a
               | $500 discount laptop. And I am sure other company's
               | premium products use higher quality components too, it's
               | not an Apple thing. But for this specific product, the
               | all around package of an Air is very competitive.
        
               | OrvalWintermute wrote:
               | I think you might be neglecting to include people that
               | like high performance dedicated GPUs - (A) scientists,
               | (B) engineers, (C) developers, (D) artists, (E)motion
               | graphics types, (F) gamers.
               | 
               | Professionally speaking, my work is full of A-E, so, an
               | Air is a big nope.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | ...that's why I wrote 90% of people. Maybe it's 80% or
               | 70%, but it certainly is top of the line for the average
               | user.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | You mentioned reliability, but I remember the butterfly
               | keyboard debacle that was denied by Apple for years.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | The MacBook Air never had the butterfly keyboard.
        
               | gmadsen wrote:
               | you think those are the majority of laptop buyers?
        
             | GavinMcG wrote:
             | Aside from the keyboard issues, you're talking about design
             | _choices you don 't like_, not design _flaws_. They made
             | the choices they made, and by and large executed on them at
             | a high degree of quality.
        
               | rasz wrote:
               | design flaws, same for 2-3 generations, all the way to
               | 2021 models https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQXXqny2wEA
        
               | salamandersauce wrote:
               | There's been other issues. MacBook Pros have had issues
               | with the screen ribbon cable causing problems with the
               | backlight (a.k.a Flexgate). Then there's been issues with
               | batteries swelling in 2015 MBPs which impacts the
               | trackpad too. Plus there has been countless models with
               | GPU failures being commonplace stretching allll the way
               | back to to iBook G3.
               | 
               | I would personally consider the 2018 Mac Mini to have a
               | design flaw as the case design doesn't allow for good
               | Bluetooth reception and using USB 3 so it would lose
               | connection to my Magic keyboard and trackpad at least
               | once a day which I personally found extremely
               | frustrating. I've also had 2 iPad Pro smart keyboards
               | fail within a year with the 2nd one only seeing light
               | usage. It seems like whatever conductive tape Apple uses
               | doesn't handle humidity well and corrodes quickly where I
               | live. I'm concerned about my 2018 MBP's long term
               | longevity keyboard aside just from the awful awful
               | thermals that shoot the machine to T-junction in about a
               | minute of actually pushing it but we will see. Probably
               | the keyboard will wear out before that.
               | 
               | I think too many people confuse quality and metal
               | construction. Yes, Apple builds nice aluminum enclosures
               | but they neglect other details to achieve that.
        
               | madmax96 wrote:
               | Do you still use Apple laptops? If not what do you use?
               | 
               | Are Apple laptops higher quality, compared to competitors
               | (despite design issues)? My current Macbook had the
               | screen laminate peel off after a few years. To Apple's
               | credit, they promptly repaired the machine at no cost.
               | But I've had friends with similarly priced laptops (XPS,
               | Razor, ...) who encountered similar build-quality issues,
               | but did not receive the same level of support. Granted,
               | all this evidence is anecdotal. I am curious to see
               | across the board comparisons.
               | 
               | Plus, I'm in the market for a new laptop anyway, so this
               | would be a valuable data point. :)
        
               | salamandersauce wrote:
               | I currently use a 2018 MBP still. I didn't personally pay
               | for it so I don't think I could just get rid of it. Next
               | time I think I'll go back to a Thinkpad. I don't feel
               | like Macbooks are higher quality for the price than a
               | comparably priced Windows laptop with some exception.
               | Gaming laptops tend to cut build quality corners to give
               | more specs for the money basically.
               | 
               | And did you have Applecare when they repaired your
               | machine? I couldn't get them to replace my 2nd iPad Pro
               | smart keyboard when it died since it was out of warranty.
        
               | wayneftw wrote:
               | A bad design choice is exactly what a design flaw is
               | though. There's no other definition. If you make bad
               | choices, that's a flaw in your design.
               | 
               | End users have to live with these choices, so we get to
               | decide what is a flaw and what is not. Focusing on thin
               | instead of useful is a design flaw. Requiring dongles for
               | everything is a design flaw.
        
               | GavinMcG wrote:
               | "Flawed" does not simply mean "bad". It means "defective"
               | or "broken" or "blemished" or the like. A poor design is
               | merely unappealing to certain consumers. A flawed design
               | _fails to fully function_ in the manner intended.
        
               | sosborn wrote:
               | > End users have to live with these choices, so we get to
               | decide what is a flaw and what is not.
               | 
               | This is true, but it isn't some collective decision.
               | Something you consider a design flaw others might see as
               | a design win.
        
           | chaosharmonic wrote:
           | Nintendo is arguably a weird example though -- in that
           | they're a _stellar_ game studio, a _decent_ hardware vendor,
           | and an _awful_ business.
           | 
           | They can survive on less powerful consoles, and historically
           | have _especially_ in the era before indies blew up, in large
           | part because they sell them pretty much entirely off first-
           | party titles anyway. Even as of this year (Wikipedia 's stats
           | on this were last updated 3/31), the top-selling third-party
           | release for Switch is ranked _15_ overall. [0] That game,
           | Monster Hunter Rise, sold less than a remake of Pokemon
           | Yellow, ports of multiple Wii U titles -- namely New Super
           | Mario Bros. U and Mario Kart 8 (which is incidentally at the
           | top of the list), Ring Fit Adventure -- a game that 's only
           | available via physical copies because it requires specialized
           | hardware and has still _repeatedly_ sold out, and whatever
           | the hell you want to call the travesty that was Super Mario
           | 3D All-Stars. (I 'll get back to that one.)
           | 
           | As a hardware company, they're all over the place. They
           | experiment a lot, particularly with control schemes, but some
           | (Wii, DS) execute better than others (Wii U) and not all of
           | them are the best quality. The Switch is a _marvel_ ,
           | conceptually, but the Joy-Cons have well-documented drift
           | issues, and the Pro Controller has the worst D-Pad I've ever
           | used despite being from the company that _invented those_.
           | Its heyday included a pad that seemed to be built for comic
           | book characters (6-arm Spider-Man and Professor X both come
           | to mind), and while the GameCube pad is one of their better-
           | designed ones _overall_ , I started to understand Smash
           | players' hand issues the moment I tried using it for Tetris.
           | Meanwhile it took a literal plague for them to stop being the
           | only vendor since Microsoft, with the original X-Box, not to
           | include Ethernet.
           | 
           | Which brings me to Nintendo as a _company_. The kind whose
           | stated solution for online when demoing Smash Ultimate was
           | "lol hope you've bought our $30 wired adapter!" (And let's
           | note, refusing to ship with this has made their already-dodgy
           | online worse, at scale.) The one that would shut down Smash
           | tournaments for using emulators on a 20-year-old game to
           | enable online play during a plague, as if that same crowd
           | wouldn't 100% just _buy_ Super Smash Bros. Melee for the
           | Nintendo GameCube again if they just gave it an actual re-
           | release on a modern console. The company that, when it _does_
           | port older titles, typically just ships lightly-retooled
           | versions of them and proceeds to charge the full price of a
           | modern AAA. The publisher that took Super Mario 64, one of
           | the most iconic games it 's ever released, for its _25th
           | anniversary_ , and not only shipped a barebones port (of this
           | and two other titles), but actively enabled scalpers by
           | giving it a release so limited that they de-listed the
           | _digital_ version after six months.
           | 
           | As someone who enjoys a number of their games I totally see
           | what you mean, but getting legitimate access to those titles
           | involves a bunch of compromises I wouldn't generally have to
           | make with other platforms and/or studios. As much as I don't
           | exactly wish for consoles to become a duopoly again, a part
           | of me really wonders what it would be like if Nintendo had
           | gone the way of Sega.
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-
           | selling_Nintendo_...
        
           | swiley wrote:
           | Apple used to be ok but you're pretty much stuck with OSX in
           | their newer machines which is a pretty mediocre OS for
           | development.
        
           | deregulateMed wrote:
           | I could see where you were coming from because Apple doesn't
           | offer budget hardware and it's easy to mistakenly compare a
           | $1000 laptop with a $500 laptop that doesn't have a video
           | card.
           | 
           | But Nintendo is notorious for releasing low quality stuff
           | with their IP skinned on it.
           | 
           | A product isn't more than it's quality metrics, if you
           | believe so, I highly recommend taking a marketing class.
        
             | roblabla wrote:
             | > But Nintendo is notorious for releasing low quality stuff
             | with their IP skinned on it.
             | 
             | Nintendo is also widely praised for consistently releasing
             | innovative gaming platforms at fair prices. And that's what
             | they tend to market and invest in _heavily_ - I 've never
             | seen an advertisement for any of their low-quality cash-
             | grab toys (which, yeah, they do exist, and they do
             | suck...).
             | 
             | > A product isn't more than it's quality metrics, if you
             | believe so, I highly recommend taking a marketing class.
             | 
             | OP's claim was that nintendo's product are low-quality,
             | sold at high-price, thanks to relentless marketing. But the
             | products being heavily marketed by Nintendo do tend to be
             | high-quality (for instance, The Switch, a portable console
             | that can be used comfortably enough as a home console, with
             | several innovative input methods and a fairly wide range of
             | high-quality games).
             | 
             | If you purely look at the hardware specs, it may seem like
             | a low-quality product, but that's not the correct quality
             | metric to use in this case.
        
               | deregulateMed wrote:
               | Take a marketing class to defend yourself from corporate
               | brainwashing.
               | 
               | Nintendo has been literally brainwashing us since we were
               | babies and had no concept of marketing.
               | 
               | I'm not even talking about hardware specs. The switch has
               | joycon issues, expensive games that are mediocre, and for
               | some reason you confuse investment and innovation with
               | quality.
               | 
               | Wasting money and bad ideas are not qualities.
               | 
               | I used to be a Nintendo fanatic, but their systems and
               | flagship games since N64 have woken me up to their
               | quality issues. The fact that people suggested BOTW was a
               | greatest game of all time despite having only 1 temple
               | theme and 3 enemies (with various skins), shows you that
               | we are under mind control.
        
               | parasubvert wrote:
               | Or, perhaps, you are not in touch with how people
               | evaluate and experience products, unless your intent is
               | dry humour.
               | 
               | People love the Switch and loved games like BOTW , Mario
               | Odyssey, etc. because they were the best products
               | Nintendo had shipped in 20 years.
               | 
               | I hadn't owned a Nintendo console since the SNES, thought
               | the Wii was "meh". They knocked this one out of the park
               | - they managed to make a portable gaming device relevant
               | in a world where everyone has a smartphone. Part of the
               | challenge is that the completion largely do not build
               | portable gaming devices.
               | 
               | Apple and Samsung also consistently rank very high in
               | tech support and customer satisfaction indexes. Let's
               | look at the main alternatives in the smartphone space:
               | Pixel, LG, Motorola, Xiaomi, Huawei. Are these paragons
               | of quality? Or are you comparing against an imaginary
               | standard of quality?
        
               | Ygg2 wrote:
               | > But the products being heavily marketed by Nintendo do
               | tend to be high-quality
               | 
               | Didn't they have a few hardware related scandals. Like
               | the famous joy control drift.
        
               | mcphage wrote:
               | > Like the famous joy control drift.
               | 
               | Yep, but that's pretty much it. Every company--even the
               | best of companies--have poor products. The analog sticks
               | on the Switch are Nintendo's worst hardware in decades.
        
             | machello13 wrote:
             | > it's easy to mistakenly compare a $1000 laptop with a
             | $500 laptop that doesn't have a video card.
             | 
             | Lol, come on dude. "Yeah I can see where you're coming
             | from, if you're an idiot it's easy to think Apple is good."
        
       | zibzab wrote:
       | This is such a BS lawsuit.
       | 
       | It would be so much better for consumers if they had instead
       | looked into googles firebase and play services shenanigans.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | I don't think this suit makes it any less likely that various
         | governments will come after that angle also. There's quite a
         | lot of anti-(Google|Facebook|Amazon) sentiment floating around
         | in various government entities right now. I assume it must
         | resonate with voters.
        
           | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
           | _> I assume it must resonate with voters._
           | 
           | Most voters care more about things like their salary,
           | healthcare, education, retirement and real estate prices, and
           | in general just making ends meet, not which SV megacorp gets
           | to be the defacto tech monopoly.
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | Perhaps, though if it's not voters, what is causing the
             | uptick in interest among politicians?
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | Fear that tech companies were becoming more influential
               | than the politicians. They're protecting themselves from
               | a perceived threat.
        
               | jiscariot wrote:
               | Along those lines, the NYT isn't writing their 100th FB
               | hit piece "for the good of the people", they see a
               | competitor with a platform. And NYT has a lot of cultural
               | power.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | Lobbying from equally wealthy competitors who couldn't
               | become monopolies?
        
               | tyingq wrote:
               | Seems odd that lobbying from what would be much smaller
               | entities would somehow overtake lobbying from the giants.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | Would you consider someone like Microsoft a small entity?
               | Do you think they're just gonna sit back and accept that
               | Apple and Google got to shove them out of the mobile
               | space completely?
        
               | vimacs2 wrote:
               | Not to mention much of traditional media are geared
               | against the interests of the tech giants. It's older
               | villains going after the newer villains.
        
         | paulgb wrote:
         | What are the Firebase shenanigans you refer to? First I've
         | heard of it but I'm interested.
        
           | swiley wrote:
           | I'd imagine it's something like iOS where you don't get
           | battery friendly push notifications without using services
           | from the OS vendor and there's no way for the user to select
           | a 3rd party service instead.
        
             | seized wrote:
             | Which is fine for most users. I don't want every app doing
             | its own inefficient push/pull notifications and tanking my
             | battery, and I am as pro open source/etc/etc as most here.
        
               | swiley wrote:
               | The result of this is that every app _does_ do
               | inefficient notifications because in many cases it has no
               | access to an external (to the app) notification service
               | on the phone.
               | 
               | Just another crappy smartphone OS feature that works fine
               | on OSes where the developers don't want to control every
               | aspect of the device.
        
               | asddubs wrote:
               | Well, it doesn't have to be a binary choice between that
               | and google offering it. There could be an OS API where
               | you can hotswap who actually delivers those
               | notifications. Right now I believe the google server
               | actually gets hardcoded into the apps using it.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _More than 30 states sue Google over 'extravagant' fees in Play
       | store_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27768127 - July
       | 2021 (105 comments)
        
       | FridayoLeary wrote:
       | Hope they wont fudge it like the FTC did with Facebook.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | This article is missing a huge part of the story. Google weren't
       | scared of _just_ a competing app store but of Samsung replacing
       | Android itself with their own Tizen OS. The Galaxy Store was just
       | the consumer bridge to that possibility.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
        
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