[HN Gopher] Encountering some turbulence on Bitbucket's journey ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Encountering some turbulence on Bitbucket's journey to a new
       platform
        
       Author : daigoba66
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2021-07-08 17:13 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bitbucket.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bitbucket.org)
        
       | rossdavidh wrote:
       | So, bitbucket is not going to self-host, they're moving to an AWS
       | based Atlassian product.
       | 
       | For many companies, it makes sense to use AWS (or a product based
       | on it). For a company like Bitbucket, that is almost like if AWS
       | decided to stop self-hosting, and use Google or Microsoft's cloud
       | products instead, with their "product" just a wrapper on top of
       | that. What is the point of Bitbucket, again? It's now a wrapper
       | around a wrapper (Atlassian) around a wrapper. Except, it doesn't
       | work that well.
        
         | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
         | Yeah, running a datacenter is their core business. The UI
         | around git hosting is not that important, despite what people
         | think. (People overestimate UI in general; like medicine,
         | government and sports, everyone has an opinion on how to make a
         | computer UI done right, though strangely nobody can deliver.)
        
       | maximilianroos wrote:
       | > our engineers implemented a solution where we would proactively
       | 
       | > our engineering teams prioritized their efforts to ensure that
       | Bitbucket
       | 
       | It's not a coincidence that company that refers to "our
       | engineers" rather than "we" is having basic engineering problems.
        
         | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
         | I don't view this a bad thing; just a sign of recognition for
         | the teams that did the job. Using "we" may come off as if the
         | management is taking credit for the job. Or at least, that's
         | how I see it.
        
           | dtao wrote:
           | I wrote this post and that's definitely how I meant it! Our
           | engineers are awesome. I think the word "we" appeared more in
           | earlier drafts and I changed it in a few places because
           | frankly I don't deserve any credit for the majority of
           | incredible work they did.
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | I worked for Atlassian for 3 years. They are a VERY
         | engineering-focused organisation. Both of the CEOs have
         | engineering backgrounds and the whole company is organised
         | around engineering teams. I think you're looking too deeply
         | into some off-handed phrasing there.
        
         | meragrin_ wrote:
         | > As we planned for this migration
         | 
         | > Our focus was primarily on read operations
         | 
         | > In contrast, we accepted that there would be increased
         | latency for writes
         | 
         | It didn't sound like they were throwing the engineers under the
         | bus at all to me. They seemed to be highlighting that
         | engineering executed well on the items management wanted them
         | to focus on.
        
       | stereosteve wrote:
       | Running a git server is a bit more challenging than running a
       | traditional stateless web app because git is all filesystem
       | centric. If you use NFS, pages that require many git operations
       | can be very slow. Or if the storage servers have a low-level API
       | some page loads might require many round trips and increased
       | latency or long queues can make things bad.
       | 
       | Gitlab went thru a similar journey from NFS to a high level git
       | api called gitaly:
       | 
       | https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2018/09/12/the-road-to-gitaly-...
       | 
       | https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitaly
       | 
       | There are some other projects like this one that seek to address
       | the problem:
       | 
       | https://github.com/takezoe/gitmesh
       | 
       | Git is already good and synchronizing between peers, but it's not
       | low latency, so does require an extra management layer to make
       | sure everything is correct.
        
         | handrous wrote:
         | I was on a project for which I built a kind of git hosting (as
         | a side-effect of, or to support, other features of the product
         | --we weren't a git-host-as-a-service, exactly) and ran into two
         | things:
         | 
         | 1) Locking. It's a pain in the ass. You're probably going to
         | need to take it over or otherwise work around it, some how. I
         | never did[0], but likely should have. At scale and with
         | unreliable HTTP operations and all kinds of crazy stuff
         | triggering writes to repos, you're going to end up with locking
         | problems at some point.
         | 
         | 2) Caching. Cache the hell out of metadata. Cache entire repo-
         | wide metadata read operation output. Cache commits. Cache
         | archives. Cache, cache, cache. Cache early, cache often.
         | 
         | [0] in my defense, I built the whole thing solo and there are
         | only so many hours in a day, and that _was not_ the only thing
         | I was working on.
         | 
         | [EDIT] this was, like, 2011 or 2012 or something, so there was
         | a lot less info floating around about how to do this, too.
        
       | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
       | Atlassian is truly an embarrassing company.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Why?
        
           | fennecfoxen wrote:
           | I use Atlassian Jira regularly. The UI is actively hostile to
           | coders, making things like code blocks hard to work with, and
           | layering on a few gratuitous stupidities like rendering the
           | common Python filename __init__.py as an italic-_init_ dot
           | py, or O(n) as an O and a thumbsdown emoji.
           | 
           | It's a good thing people don't use Jira to write softw-- oh.
        
             | Y_Y wrote:
             | Still better than Confluence.
        
       | helldritch wrote:
       | This has been really frustrating me lately.
       | 
       | Sometimes I just want to quickly merge a small change (maybe a
       | small config change, 1/2 lines) and then pull on master, branch
       | off and start working again.
       | 
       | I'm regularly having to wait several minutes for the merge and
       | while I know that there are ways around this locally it just
       | annoys me that something so simple is taking so long.
       | 
       | This feels less like an apology and more like Atlassian saying
       | "Us changing a platform which has worked a certain way for years
       | and that breaking your workflow is YOUR PROBLEM. It's you looking
       | at this wrong, merges have been asynchronous all along." despite
       | our many combined millennia of experience being entirely to the
       | contrary.
        
       | xunn0026 wrote:
       | So they are migrating to an internal Atlassian Cloud and the
       | production deployment (after 1 year of development) is hitting
       | some performance issue.
       | 
       | Seems to be expected. Things rarely deploy flawlessly.
       | 
       | Sadly BitBucket isn't what it used to be ever since they dropped
       | Mercurial and Microsoft acquired GitHub (and introduced the super
       | generous Actions / build servers). I see no reason nowadays to
       | recommend them.
        
         | gremlinsinc wrote:
         | I was honestly worried about Microsoft/Github...but I'm
         | pleasantly surprised out how much better Github is now than it
         | was a few years back even.
        
       | hkchad wrote:
       | This right here is why we will not be moving our Self-Hosted BB
       | to their 'cloud'. I can't afford these kinds of outages and being
       | 'small' we can yell and scream all we want and they won't care.
       | I'd much rather have the control in my hands when something goes
       | wrong. Goodbye BB!
        
         | bsagdiyev wrote:
         | Don't worry, yelling and screaming as a larger self hosted
         | customer doesn't work either!
        
       | softwaredoug wrote:
       | People can hate on BB, but this is a very well written and
       | transparent update on what's happening, why, and when to see
       | resolution to the issues.
        
       | ralph84 wrote:
       | It seems like Bitbucket has always been the afterthought in
       | Atlassian's stack. Are Bitbucket Cloud and Bitbucket Data Center
       | still two separate code bases with different APIs?
        
         | bsagdiyev wrote:
         | Yes. And data center is a huge pain to work with in a clustered
         | environment, it almost feels like they want you to not use it
         | and use their cloud offering instead.
        
           | ArchOversight wrote:
           | The same is true for any of their other products.
           | JIRA/Confluence are the ones that I am most familiar with.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-07-08 23:01 UTC)